Pro and Con 1459

Posted 1-2-09

"The last digit of rapture year - dream from 1998"

Rene (30 Dec 2008) "The last digit of rapture year - dream from 1998"
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/dec2008/rene1230-4.htm

John: Several years ago - during 1998, I posted a note on Five Doves about a dream I had of the year of the rapture. I saw years spinning by. The only problem is, I only saw the LAST DIGIT and it was a NINE! I remember that dream. I always thought it pointed to 1999! When 1999 came and went, I discarded the dream, thinking it irrelevant! Now - I am wondering - if it was pointing to 2009! Rene

Incoming e-mail, Re: Sun Dog, mock sun, parhelion

I have seen quite a few sun dogs, but I typed in the word Parhelion and one of the websites had THE MOST Beautiful ones you could ever imagine. You must be a lot younger then me, or else you take a lot of phosphatidlyserine. Really enjoy how you put together so many things. Go bless you.

My reply

Thanks. I'm now 80 years old.

RABBI YONA METZGER: "My Dream Is to Create a United Religious Nations"

SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH RABBI YONA METZGER http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,598234,00.html Yona Metzger, the Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of Israel, talks to SPIEGEL ONLINE about the Abraham as the father of all three monotheistic religions -- Islam, Christianity and Judaism -- and explains how that connection could be a starting point for a dialogue of peace between them.... Metzger: Definitely. My dream is to create a United Religious Nations -- just as there is the United Nations in New York. The diplomats did not succeed in bringing peace to the world. They need help. And this can come through religious language. Because a Muslim does not respect a person who is secular; he will only have respect if you are religious. This Religious United Nations would also include Hindus and Buddists. We religious people speak the same language

Vatican calls for end to Middle East violence

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230111718853&pagename=JPost%2FJParticle%2FPrinter Dec. 27, 2008 - Pope Benedict XVI is expected to visit the Holy Land in May for what would be the first papal trip to Israel and the Palestinian territories since the late Pope John Paul II traveled there in a 2000 pilgrimage.

My comment

Pentecost is May 29, 2009.

Apr 19, 2009 is the Orthodox Easter

The Holy Fire at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem will be due Saturday, Apr 18.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Thanks

I would like to thank you personally for your contribution on fivedoves. Your balance, research and writings have taken much time and effort. May you be blessed. Blessings

My reply

Thanks. It sure is nice to be appreciated. I'm now 80. For the last 48 years, I've just been doing what I think the Lord wants me to do, study and write.

Long ago, in a darkened room at twilight, he put a rectangle of light on Jer. 50:2. It says, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."

Some people think Babylon is the US. I know that Babylon is in Iraq. It has never been destroyed to the point that no man will walk there. That will happen on the Day of God's Wrath at the end of the 2300-day Shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:13,14).

Jer 50:35-40 says, "A SWORD (i.e., the Sword of the Lord, an asteroid that will impact Earth) is upon the CHALDEANS, saith the LORD, and upon the inhabitants of Babylon, and upon her princes, and upon her wise men. A sword is upon the liars; and they shall dote: a sword is upon her mighty men; and they shall be dismayed. A sword is upon their horses, and upon their chariots, and upon all the mingled people that are in the midst of her; and they shall become as women: a sword is upon her treasures; and they shall be robbed. A drought is upon her waters; and they shall be dried up: for it is the land of graven images, and they are mad upon their idols. Therefore the wild beasts of the DESERT with the wild beasts of the islands shall dwell there, and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited for ever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation. AS GOD OVERTHREW SODOM AND GOMORRAH (with an asteroid impact) and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein."

Rev. 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up a STONE like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a ROCK? (Wormwood; Rev. 8:8--11) Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country (not tiny Israel): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down." Agape

My reply to a post on the Five Doves site, Re: Pineman: Shortened Tribulation

> > If the theory of the Shortened Tribulation is correct then we have a set of bookends where the Tribulation is cut short by 220 days in the beginning and the 7 year covenant is cut short by 220 days at the end.

Thanks. That's interesting. I wonder. Is the Tribulation exactly the same thing as the 70th week of Daniel, or are they 2 separate times?

De. 4:30,31 says, "When thou art in TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee, even IN THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them."

Mt 24:15,16,20,21 says of Mid-Trib, "When ye therefore shall see the ABOMINATION of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains"....But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE." Dan 11:31 says, "And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the ABOMINATION that maketh desolate."

This ties in with Dan. 8:9-14. It says, "And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it (like the great red dragon in Rev. 12) cast down some of the host (i.e., the fallen angels) and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and BY HIM (the Satan-possessed False Prophet) THE DAILY SACRIFICE WAS TAKEN AWAY, AND THE PLACE OF HIS SANCTUARY (i.e., the asteroid Wormwood) WAS CAST DOWN. And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, HOW LONG shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (1st half of the Tribulation), and the transgression of desolation (Mid-Trib), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? (last half, the Great Tribulation) And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." It will be cleansed by the tsunami created by the asteroid hitting the Mediterranean Sea on the Feast of Trumpets, probably Sept. 14, 2015.

Mt 24:29 SAYS, "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS (i.e., the 2300 days of Dan. 8:13,14) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars (i.e., the 2 asteroids of Rev. 8:8-10) shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken".

MarK 13:24 says, "But in those days, after that TRIBULATION, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light."

Once the asteroids hit Earth on the Day of God's Wrath, there are 7 months to the Second Advent, Tishri, Cheshvan, Kislev, Teveth, Shevat, Adar I, Adar II. I think Jesus will return on Nisan 1, the first day of the Regnal and Sacred Year, Regnal because he is King of kings, sacred because he is Lord of lords. He would be inaugurated at the same time as all the other Hebrew kings.

After reviewing the details, it seems to me that the Tribulation and the 70th week of Daniel are essentially the same thing, and the 70th week is to be shortened to 2300 days.

Mid-Trib would be Friday, Nov. 9, 2012, Cheshvan 24. 5773. Agape

My reply to a post on Five Doves site

Re: Ron Reese: THE MOUNTING EVIDENCE FOR JANUARY 11, 2009, TO BE THE SUDDEN DESTRUCTION / RAPTURE
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/dec2008/dec8-2008.htm

I don't think there will be sudden destruction at the Pre-Trib Rapture, the first trump of God (I Thess. 4:16,17). The Wrath of God follows the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the "last trump" of God. It is the Rapture of I Cor. 15:51,52 (compare Rev. 6:17; 7:14, and 8:1f).

> > We ARE in the 70th Week of Daniel, and we MAY be in the Tribulation. I am just not sure. Because none of the other seal or trumpet judgments have started yet (other than the revealing of the Antichrist to a select few), I am suggesting, at this point in time, that the Tribulation has not started yet.

I agree that the 70th week of Daniel 9:27 has started, and that the Tribulation has not started. We are still here. Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

To me, the 70th week of Daniel started Oct. 21, 2008 (the 8th day of Tabernacles) instead of your date, Oct. 29, 2008. That was not a feast day.

To me, the Shortened, 2300-day Tribulation of Dan. 8:13,14, counted by inclusive reckoning, because it is a block of time, will begin next Pentecost, May 29, 2009. The 2300 days would end on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015. Thus, the Tribulation would start and end on feast days.

THE DAY OF THE LORD, THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH, WILL BE ON TRUMPETS

Joel 1:14,15; 2:1,2,10,11 says, "Sanctify ye a fast (i.e., the upcoming Day of Atonement, the only feast that is a fast day), call a solemn assembly (i.e., on the Feast of Trumpets), gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the LORD your God, and cry unto the LORD, Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as A DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY shall it come. Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and SOUND AN ALARM in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it IS NIGH AT HAND; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong (Gog's army); there hath not been ever the like (i.e., not at the beginning of the Tribulation), neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations....The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: THE SUN AND THE MOON SHALL BE DARK, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the DAY OF THE LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?" Jdg 7:18 says, "When I blow with a TRUMPET, I and all that are with me, then blow ye the trumpets also on every side of all the camp, and say, THE SWORD OF THE LORD, and of Gideon." This is a type. The Sword of the Lord is the asteroid Wormwood, Rev. 8:8-11.

Wormwood is Satan's home. Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country (one piece will hit the Mediterranean Sea, the other will destroy the rebuilt Babylon, Iraq): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

Jer.4:5,6 says, "Blow ye the TRUMPET in the land: cry, gather together, and say, Assemble yourselves, and let us go into the defenced cities. Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I WILL BRING EVIL FROM THE NORTH, AND A GREAT DESTRUCTION".

Jer 4:19,20 says, "I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the TRUMPET, THE ALARM OF WAR. DESTRUCTION UPON DESTRUCTION is cried; for the whole land is spoiled".

Eze 7:12-14 says, "THE TIME IS COME, the day draweth near: let not the buyer rejoice, nor the seller mourn: for WRATH is upon all the multitude thereof. For the seller shall not return to that which is sold, although they were yet alive: for the vision is touching the whole multitude thereof, which shall not return; neither shall any strengthen himself in the iniquity of his life. They have blown the TRUMPET, even to make all ready; but none goeth to the battle: for MY WRATH IS UPON ALL the multitude thereof."

Zeph 1:14-16 says, "The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. That day is A DAY OF WRATH, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A DAY OF THE TRUMPET AND ALARM against the fenced cities, and against the high towers." Every wall will fall; Eze. 38:20.

Zech 9:14,15 says, "And THE LORD SHALL BE SEEN OVER THEM (i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man; Mt. 24:30), and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and THE LORD GOD SHALL BLOW THE TRUMPET (i.e., it is the Pre-Wrath Rapture, I Cor. 15:51,52), and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.The LORD of hosts shall defend them".

THE TRIBULATION

> > It may start with the Rapture. It may start with the Sudden Destruction. It may start with both at the same time. It could even start with a peace treaty involving Israel. Could it be possible that the 70th Week of Daniel and the 7-year Tribulation overlap by 75 days, the 75 days of Daniel 12:12? I believe it is quite possible because there has been no Rapture and no cataclysmic event to kick off the Tribulation.

THE TRIBULATION STARTS WITH PEACE AND ENDS WITH DESTRUCTION

Rev 6:1-4 says, "I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he (the 1st beast of Rev. 13) that sat on him had a bow (toxon, simple fabric, sign of a religious leader, a man of the cloth, probably the Tribulation Pope); and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon TO TAKE PEACE FROM THE EARTH, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

> > Dan 12:12 says, "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."
> > So, I am suggesting the possibility of a 2nd 2520-day period that will end when the millennium begins, which should be Dec. 6-7, 2015, the 24th of Chisleu (Haggai 2), the eve of Hanukkah, which begins the historic and future annual celebration of the completion and the rededication of the new Temple in Jerusalem, where Christ will dwell during His one-thousand-year reign.
> > If you back up 2520 days, or 7 Jewish years, from this date, it will take you to January 11, 2009, for the first day of this 7-year period. For simplicity sakes, letís just call this 2520-day period the Tribulation, as opposed to the 70th Week of Daniel. Is it really that much of a stretch to call cleaning up the aftermath of the Battle of Armageddon and the Judgment of the Nations part of the Tribulation?

THE SEVEN MONTHS BETWEEN GOD'S WRATH AND THE SECOND ADVENT

Day of God's Wrath, Eze. 38:18-20 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (i.e., when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky; Mt. 24:30), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."

Eze. 39:12,13 says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD." He will be glorified at the Second Advent.

I think the Day of God's Wrath will be the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5776, Sept. 14, 2015, and the Day of the Second Advent will be the following Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016. That will be the first day of the Regnal Year. He would be inaugurated on the same day as all the other Hebrew kings. It would be the first day of the Jubilee Year.

> > Is it not possible that the 70th Week of Daniel concludes with the Second Coming of Jesus, when God is finished judging Israel?

I don't think so. Dan. 9:27 ends with the destruction on the Day of God's Wrath. It says, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until THE CONSUMMATION, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

> > "And is it not possible that the 7-year Tribulation concludes with the judgment of nations and the actual start of the Millennium? This would make it possible for us to right now be in a 75-day period of grace, from Oct. 29, 2008 until January 11, 2009, the actual start of the 7-year Tribulation. There could possibly be TWO 2520-day periods, overlapping by the 75 days of Daniel 12:12.

I don't think there will be two 2520-day periods, just one that probably started on Oct. 21, 2008, the 8th day of Tabernacles, and will end on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5766, Sept. 14, 2015. I think the 2300-day Shortened Tribulation will start on next Pentecost, May 29, 2009, and end on Sept. 14. 2015. the first day of the Millennium. Jesus will be seated as judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven during the silence on Earth and in Heaven.

Rev. 8:1 says, "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was SILENCE IN HEAVEN about the space of half an hour." Hab 2:20 says, "the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the EARTH KEEP SILENCE before him."

> > So, what other evidence do we have pointing us towards January 11, 2009? With all of the 7-11 signs that I experienced in less than three weeks time, I remain, more than ever, confident that the Lord stopped my watch for a reason, EXACTLY when He did. In all four confirmations the 7 came before the 11. So, rather than 11 days before the completion (7) of 2008, why not ELEVEN DAYS AFTER THE COMPLETION (7 is Godís number of completion) OF 2008. That would take us to JANUARY 11, 2009!
> > The SEVEN seal judgments, the SEVEN trumpet judgments, and the SEVEN vial judgments, could begin on Jan. 11, 2009. The COMPLETION of the Bride of Christ could take place on this day. ELEVEN IS THE NUMBER OF JUDGMENT AND DISORDER!!! What a great description of the judgments of Revelation.
> > Dec. 1, 2008, was the day my watch stopped. 21 (7+7+7) days after my watch stops at ELEVEN minutes to SEVEN, the Lord wakes me up early in the morning and helps me piece all this info together pointing toward Jan. 11, 2009. 21 days after the day I am composing this post, will be Jan. 11, 2009. Two separate 21- day periods. 42 days in all. From Dec. 1, 2008, the day my watch mysteriously stopped at 11 minutes to 7, until January 11, 2009, is 42 DAYS.

I go by what the Scripture says. In Mark 13:23, Jesus said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you ALL THINGS." ALL the clues we need are in the Bible. Amos 3:7says, "Surely (kiy, certainly) the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." Dan 12:10 says, "none of the wicked shall understand; but THE WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND." I want to be one of the wise who understand."

We can dump all the puzzle pieces out on the table, and try to figure out how they all fit together, but we are not allowed to take away or add pieces. The puzzle can be completed with what we already have; Rev. 22:18 says, "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book".

> > Christ returns with his saints on Feast of Atonement, Sept. 23, 2015, the VERY DAY that so many time frames and signs and events were pointing towards. 75 DAYS later takes us to Dec. 6-7, 2015, or Chisleu 24, or Hanukkah eve, THE PERFECT DAY FOR THE 1000-REIGN OF JESUS CHRIST TO BEGIN!!!

I think the Millennial reign of Jesus will begin in Heaven on the Feast of Trumpets that is the end of the 2300-day Shortened Tribulation on Earth, and that his Second Advent will be 7 months later, on Nisan 1, when the Jubilee Year starts.

Rev 11:15-19 tells about the first day of Jesus' millennial rule. It says, "the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall REIGN for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art (i.e., on the Day of God's Wrath), and wast (at the First Advent), and ART TO COME (i.e., at the Second Advent 7 months later); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, AND THE TIME OF THE DEAD, THAT THEY SHOULD BE JUDGED, AND THAT YOU SHOULDEST GIVE REWARD UNTO THY SERVANTS THE PROPHETS, AND TO THE SAINTS, AND THEM THAT FEAR THY NAME, SMALL AND GREAT; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

Daniel 12:11 speaks of another 30 days. I think this is because the year 5776 is a Jewish Leap Year with the 13th month. That extra month is necessary, because there are to be 7 months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1, 5776, not the usual 6.

Examine the scriptures and see if these things are so. I am not a prophet, just someone that has studied the Bible as hard as I can go for the last 48 years. I am trying to work the end-time puzzle the same as you are. Maybe if we put our heads together, we can get farther than either of us can manage alone. Keep hunting those puzzle pieces we haven't been able to put into the big picture yet. Agape

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