Pro and Con 146, Uploaded 7-5-98

For those interested in SNOW in July:
Press-Enterprise, Riverside, CA, Sat. July 4, 1998:
"Holiday hikers face snowy trails. Area mountains trimmed in white,"
"John Flippin, Forest Service volunteer coordinator for the San Gorgonio Wilderness, said there is more snow this late in the season than there has been in at least 30 years....Even experienced hikers are becoming disoriented and getting lost for hours at a time, Flippin said.
"Because of the snow, things look completely different than they do when the trails are bare," he said...."It's only above 10,000 feet where you hit the bad snow," Barz said. "Anybody who's going to go higher than that is going to need ice axes and crampons."

Incoming Email

July 12th and Battle of Jericho
I read this exposition by the writer in your Pro & Con 143, where the writer compared the rapture to the 7 times Jericho marched around the city, taking May 31 as the first time, June 7th as 2nd time and also used the allegory of Jesus asking the disciples to WAIT one hour with him and kept finding them asleep.

Comparing our "wait" to Jericho and making each time we have been "disappointed" a week is really ludicrous! I'm not saying that the rapture WON'T happen on July 12 - but whoever wrote this is just "grasping at straws". It is amazing to me to see what lengths people will go to trying to FIT their pre-conceived dates into Biblical history. I think this does an injustice to the word of God. Let's put on the whole armour of God and use a little "discernment" out there! Jesus truly IS coming soon, but taking the story of Joshua and Jericho and trying to fit the whole thing into one's own personal end-time scenario is just too much!!!! The secular world is already convinced that Christians are fruitcakes! Don't give them more fuel to add to their woodpiles! USE your head folks!

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News: Asteroid Near Earth
You might find the following news interesting.

FWD: Newly-found asteroid points to unseen danger
Weekend News Today. Source: Foxnews

Thu Jul 2 , 1998 -- Astronomers said Thursday they had found an asteroid in a place where they have never been found before, orbiting entirely between the Earth and the sun, and warned there may be more out there. They say this asteroid is nothing to worry about, but because it was so hard to spot, there could be others in orbit that no one would see until the last minute. Astronomy professor David Tholen of the University of Hawaii and graduate student. Robert Whiteley used a special camera to spot the asteroid.

This new asteroid, dubbed 1998 DK36, always has the sun somewhere in the background from the Earth's perspective. So it is hard to see. Tholen said there could be others like it, coming out of the sun and no one had been looking out for them.

Tholen and Whiteley were scanning the skies at dawn and dusk looking for asteroids that might be inside the earth's orbit. They found one. They said it appears to be very close to, but slightly inside the orbit of the Earth. They calculate it is about 130 feet in diameter. That's about the size of the asteroid believed to have flattened trees for hundreds of square miles in the Tunguska region of Siberia in June of 1908, when it exploded in the atmosphere with the force of a nuclear bomb. But Tholen doubts this asteroid will hit Earth.

My reply

Knowledge does increase as time goes on. It hasn't been too long since the first asteroid was spotted. Fairly recently, they found that there are asteroids as big as a house between us and the moon. Now they find this one inside our orbit. There are plenty of surprises out there. There is debris orbiting around out there, and some will hit Earth one of these days.

Note: The following interesting excerpt about the Rapture, I downloaded from his Web page. I too "hope we all hang in there and pass the test.

"I'm not saying it will happen nor am I suggesting it won't. I'll just keep an open mind and keep preparing. What's so bad about that, right? Even if rapture does not occur during our lifetimes, just think of how preparing changes your life and how you relate with everyone around you. Maybe that is the true purpose of Marilyn's site: to serve as an agent for change and to contribute towards making a better world. We are being tested today and some are beginning to fall asleep. I hope we all hang in there and pass the test. Good luck to everyone... And please stay healthy!"

Incoming Email

Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate receiving the information....Regarding your comments and the scriptures you provided, I am thinking, praying, meditating on a few points. The stickler for me is still the post Tribulation rapture issue i.e. for non Jewish believers who were "unwise virgins". Thank you for your thoughtful help. We absolutely agree on the finished work of Jesus Christ and the gospel of salvation by faith. Isn't the internet terrific, how else would I ever have such an opportunity to talk with the author. I wish you great success in your ministry. It is profitable for anyone to reflect on these things. Whether I agree with everything or not, I must think about these points and reflect on my own spiritual condition. That is a good thing. Thanks!!

My reply

As long as we agree about Christ, we don't have to agree on anything else. We are all searching to see what the Scriptures mean.

Incoming Email

Wish I had more time to read all the pros and cons you put on your web site. I decided to start with the most recent and work backward. The comment on the "will you not watch with me one hour" was very interesting. I am not one to argue, but I do love a dialogue. It increases a person's knowledge considerably. There is not one of us that has 100% of God's knowledge. We're each given whatever bits we can handle. I feel you have a great deal more than I, and have certainly spent many more hours studying than I. I'm sure that when the time comes, we may know the date of our departure, as did Noah. Well, he knew when to go in to the ark. Did he know when lift-off was until he was actually floating? We know in Whom we have our safety, and we rest in Him. So when lift-off comes, we'll have been already in the ark through our relationship with Jesus.

...As I mentioned before, not one of us has the whole truth, but I love to study God's Word, and men's writings, and ask God for discernment to weed out their partial truths and leave the rest. In this age of apostasy within God's church, it seems I am discarding more and more of those that seem to be in the forefront of spreading "another gospel". In some ways it is discouraging, but more, it is exciting, because we know "He is at the doors". My prayer is that my family will be led by the Holy Spirit into His Truth. I covet your prayers on my behalf. Our time is short. If I may add anything dear to your heart to my prayer list, let me know. In His Name

My reply

...I join you in your prayer for your family, just add mine too. Thanks.

Incoming Email

...the rapture is very, very, near even at the door, and we don't have much time to get right with God. It can't be long now, IT WILL HAPPEN, we have God's Word on that, it is just a matter of WHEN. The exact date of the Rapture is not as important to me, as the fact that we should all be ready, AT ALL TIMES to go when it happens. We should be ready at all times because we don't know if we will live to that day, or we may die due to illness, accident, etc. I am a Spirit filled Christian, who has gone through a lot of pain and suffering in my life, even to this day. So there has been a delay in the Rapture or has there? Only God knows for sure. That does not shake up my faith, for our God is a God of perfection and His timing is PERFECT. My diagnosis for Breast Cancer has also been delayed and I will not know definetly until July 30. My hope is still the same that Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, will take me at the first Rapture and I will live to see it. My prayer still remains the same: LORD I PRAY THAT YOU WILL COUNT ME WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THAT IS COMING UPON THIS EARTH, AS WELL AS MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS, AND ALL THOSE WHO ARE WAITING, LONGING, WATCHING FOR YOUR APPEARANCE. IN YOUR HOLY NAME I PRAY THIS LORD! This year in our Church is the year of the HOLY SPIRIT, therefore, 1998, is the year of the COMFORTER and to me Pentecost continues throughout the rest of the year. I believe there still is a good possibility that the Rapture will take place this year or in the first half of 1999, only time will tell. Thank you so much Marilyn for all for hardwork and for sharing so much with the saved and the lost. You truly love God because you have such a great hunger to rescue the lost souls out there, and to wake up the SLEEPING CHRISTIANS. GOD BLESS YOU MARILYN and keep to the day of his coming. Please pray for me that the good Lord will help me to live to see that day come to pass, if not, if I die before then to find me worthy to escape, as the DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST. Watching, praying, and longing for your return Lord Jesus. Come Lord Jesus come soon! MARANATHA!

My reply

Thank you. I know about pain too. What a wonderful letter to get as I am trying desperately to relax muscle spasms in my legs that I have been fighting for about two hours. Have taken every pill I dare and have hot packs wrapped on my left leg.

> The exact date of the Rapture is not as important to me, as the fact that we
> should all be ready, AT ALL TIMES to go when it happens. We should be ready at
> all times because we don't know if we will live to that day, or we may die due
> to illness, accident, etc.

Amen and Amen. We should get ready and stay ready. None of us knows how long we have to live. Just got word that Frank Lee Tulloch died--at 54. That is much younger than my 69 years. Who would expect that? None of us know how long we will live.

> So there has been a delay in the Rapture or has there? Only God knows for
> sure. That does not shake up my faith, for our God is a God
> of perfection and His timing is PERFECT.

I agree completely with the above, have prayed for you personally, and join you in the following prayer for us all. In Jesus' name, Amen


May the Lord bless you in all ways, in body and in spirit, as we wait for our blessed hope.

Incoming Email

I have read some of your pros and cons pages and have noticed some references to R B Theime.

I was wondering how you came to learn of Theimes teachings, and what you think of them.

Is there any more info on the net that you know of on Theime? (Berachah Church, Houston, TX) Thanks

My reply

A friend had some of his tapes. We listened to them together. Then I got some others and lots of his booklets. I attended at least 3 of his tape conferences in person. I have to thank him for giving me a basic understanding of the Bible, of the attributes of God and of Faith Rest. I like the way he teaches, verse by verse, word for word, straight out of the Bible. At the conferences, everyone had pen and notebook in hand and was writing furiously. On just about every point, he gave several other references we could look up later. It was all we could do to keep up with him. If we missed anything, we could listen to the tape later. I think it is wonderful. He knew the original languages well and studied constantly. He delegated someone else to call on the sick, etc., said that it was a pastor's duty to study and teach. That was early in my studies and I have no idea whether he is on the Internet or not.

Incoming Email

I thought this might be appropriate for your page, considering the timing. I have been praying that I might be accounted worthy, and this seems to help me be more at peace.

Remember the story of the thief dying on the cross next to Jesus:

"And he said unto Jesus, LORD, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:42-43(KJ))

This story is a beautiful example of the love and mercy of our Lord. Right up until the very time that this thief was about to die, this thief was lost. Then, he realized who Jesus was. He humbly asked Jesus to remember him. He called Him Lord. He was saved at the very last moment, and given the assurance of being with Jesus.

Incoming Email

Marilyn, I admire your response to the writer in pro & con 102, who was concerned about having un-saved sisters that they were afraid might not go up in the rapture as they were Roman Catholic. It is TRUE, everything you told this person. I spent 20 years in this "institution" of a religion. Never once in all that time, did anyone ever tell me that I could be SAVED and know it. I was led to believe that by being a good "practicing" Catholic and going to Mass, Confession, Communion, etc, I'd make it eventually to Purgatory for a while, then eventually into heaven [as long as I didn't commit any "mortal" sins and die before getting a chance to confess them!] It was purely a life of WORKS! I was ignorant of many precious Bible doctrines that I have since learned for myself and taken to heart. I got saved reading a King James AV 1611 Bible given to my by the Gideons one night while I was at work. I realized looking back that I had spent years in a religion of works, trying to WORK my way to heaven. How terribly sad! I had been told about Jesus dying on the cross, but never told that I had to ACCEPT HIS BLOOD covering for my sins to PAY my sin debt and thus gain me ETERNAL LIFE! I thought I was "receiving" His blood in the communion! I wasn't! Communion is a SYMBOL, SHOWING His death until He returns for us! I was hoping for eternal life based on MY performance and MY righteousness instead of on the RIGHTEOUSNESS of Jesus and HIS substitutionary death in MY PLACE! I was appalled when I found out that there is NO SUCH thing as "Purgatory"! It does NOT exist! You can SCOUR the Bible for it and you will NEVER find a word about PURGATORY, praying to DEAD saints, praying to Mary or saying VAIN repetitious prayers like ROSARIES! I believe that all these so-called "apparitions" Catholics are having of Mary are none other than a GREAT deception by the one who often poses as an "ANGEL of LIGHT" - Lucifer himself! Just listen to what this "apparition" tells people! She asks them to do "penance" for the sins of the world - stupid, idiotic things like that! WHY would anyone have to do "penance" for the sins of the world, Marilyn? Why would anyone with a grain of brains think doing "penance" for the sins of the world would help the world ONE inch? JESUS already PAID for the sins of the world with HIS own blood! This "penance" is an insult to HIM and His finished work on the cross of calvary! How sad that people are so foolish and so easily deceived simply because they do NOT know their Bibles! Satan will have a field - day when the Christians are gone in the rapture because so many people are such gullible idiots, he will have NO problem convincing them to believe a GREAT LIE! And it will damn them! How tragic - how sad! No wonder Jesus wept over Jerusalem! I know exactly how HE felt!!!

Incoming Email

> The bride of Christ
> Compiled by Haron Wachira
> (with a lot of the material borrowed from Arlen Chitwood's book, Salvation
> of the Soul)
> There is a widely held view among Christians today that ALL THE CHURCH is
> the bride of Christ. That view cannot be supported by the teaching of
> Scripture.
> There isn't adequate space in this brief article to deal substantively with
> this subject, but we can borrow a good summary: "The basic principles
> relating to the formation of the bride and the redemptive work of the Son in
> relation to the bride are set forth in the first three chapters of Genesis
> and remain unchanged throughout Scripture. Adam was the first man upon this
> earth. He was also a type of Christ, the Second Adam (Romans 5:14; 1
> Corinthians 15:45-47); and the experiences of Adam in relation to Eve
> prefigure the experiences of Christ in relation to His bride." - from
> Salvation of the Soul by Arlen Chitwood.
> The point to note is that just as Eve was taken out of Adam's body, the
> bride of Christ will be taken out of the Son's body. The entire body over
> which He is the head consists of all the saved but the bride is a smaller
> group which is presently being called out of the larger group, i.e. the
> body.
> The church is the body of Christ (Ephesians 5:30); the bride of Christ will
> be a selection from the body. Only in this light can we make sense of
> Matthew 22:14: "For many are called but few are chosen" or the parable of
> the 10 virgins (Matthew 25:1ff): all were waiting for the bridegroom
> (therefore all believers); all had lamps (representing the Word of God) and
> all had oil (representing the Holy Spirit). The difference between the wise
> and the foolish was that the wise had extra oil. But a fuller discussion of
> this subject has to await another time....
> When a believer begins to understand these truths, his/her life undergoes a
> transformation. He begins to order his life so as not to be disqualified for
> his inheritance in the age to come. Like Paul, he begins to count the things
> of this present age as dung compared to the excellency of the knowledge of
> Jesus Christ (Philippians 3:8), the hope of His calling, and the riches of
> the glory of the inheritance that awaits such a believer (Ephesians 1:18).
> But only if he overcomes. Note the emphasis on the if. For, while eternal
> salvation (by grace through faith, not works) is absolutely sure, hope
> isn't, being dependent on us. The reward is for "whoever overcomes"; it will
> be rendered unto every man according to his deeds (Matthew 16:24-27;) and it
> will be good or bad, according to one's work (2 Corinthians 5:10).
> Fortunately, our hope is not vain, or shaky. Says the Scriptures:
> "...whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory
> that has overcome the world--our faith. (1 John 5:4). That provided, the
> responsibility remains personal, the determining factors remain those
> things done while in the body, and the consequences will affect one's
> position/inheritance, not for a brief 70 years (of this life) but for a
> thousand years and eternity.
> ---
The address for this was of htm

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Hey I love what your doing.

My reply

Thanks. I try hard. God Bless.

Incoming Email

Greetings in Jesus. I was wondering how you were doing these days? I am at the place iwhere I am wondering if dates are truely predictable. I thought that if anyone had a shot at it, it was you. Not just because of the force of your arguements, but because I know your integrity. but now that May 31st, June 7th and spring have all passed, I am at a loss. I think it will be soon, within a few years. But I have a hard time getting into much more than just realizing we are in the general season of the rapture and His second coming. Prophecy is a difficult subject to comprehend, and I wish sometimes that God would have made it easier. When you read the Gospels, and find verses saying that such and such happened to fulfill a particular prophecy, and then read the old testament passage that the prophecy came from, you just want to sit back and scratch your head. The prophecies of the first coming were certainly difficult to unscramble. I need to talk to God about this when I see Him.

I hope you are doing well. --- and I send our love. Blessings. Maranatha

My reply

We're fine, resting secure in the Lord and waiting to see how long it is going to be before the Rapture takes place. I've been busy as a bee answering emails. As it turns out the wheat harvest goes on during Tamuz. The Jews say that Ruth lay at Boaz' feet on Pentecost, but upon rereading the account, Ruth 2:23 says, "So she kept fast by the maidens of Boaz to glean unto the END of barley harvest AND of wheat harvest. Pentecost is not the END of wheat harvest.

Stewarton School of the Bible, Scotland, says that the end of wheat harvest is in Tamuz. I emailed someone in Israel and asked. He said he wasn't a farmer, but would guess summer.

If the parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9 applies, then I can't see how it could be later than the Jewish New year, because then the count to the beginning of the Tribulation would not be four Jewish years. It would only leave 5759, 5760, and 5761. And, we can't slide the last year of the Tribulation forward a year. That year has to be a Jewish leap year for there to be 7 Jewish months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1.

Psa. 122:3,4, in The New Jerusalem Bible says, "Jerusalem, built as a city, in ONE UNITED WHOLE, there the tribes go up, the tribes of Yahweh, A SIGN for Israel to give thanks to the name of Yahweh." That plus Israel growing leaves in the Six-Day War of 1967 and thus fulfilling the fig tree parable of Mt. 24:32-34, to me, limits the year for the end of the Tribulation to the 40th year. The disciples had asked Jesus in Mt. 24:3, "what shall be the SIGN of thy coming, and of the end of the world (age)." I think we have had that SIGN, that the Six-Day War, when Israel took the rest of Jerusalem, when she became "ONE UNITED WHOLE," was that sign.

This year being Israel's Jubilee year, and the 6000th year since man began to be tried as mortal and knowing both good and evil, makes this seem like the prime year for the Rapture.

This causes me to go back to Song of Solomon 2:10-14. It says that winter is past. I thought, then, that it must be spring, but maybe I was limiting it too much. The main grape harvest starts in Av. It seems to me that any time between now and Tishri 1 is the most likely time for the Rapture to take place.

There does have to be some kind of a gap between the Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation. In Rev. 17:12, the ten kings have no kingdom as yet. That is at the time of the Rapture for all of Rev. is written as if the Rapture is "at hand" (as in 1:3 and 22:10). Jesus signs off saying he comes quickly, and he comes quickly at the Rapture (2:5). At the beginning of the Tribulation in Rev. 13:1, those 10 kings are wearing crowns. Also, the temple should be there by the time the two witnesses begin their 1260-day ministry. I don't see how the Rapture can be very far off.

Jesus was tested 40 days. We are the Body of Christ. Maybe we are to be tested 40 days too. Israel was tested 40 days when Moses went up on Mt. Sinai. They failed their test. We must not fail ours. We've got to stay ready, bring as many to Christ as we can, and just wait patiently until it takes place.

Rev. 3:10,11 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my PATIENCE, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial), which shall come upon ALL THE WORLD, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." Paul was running a race to win an incorruptible crown. He didn't want to be a castaway. He said, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus" (Phil 3:14). So should we.

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 7-5-98