Pro and Con 147, Uploaded 7-7-98

Incoming Email

I wrote you yesterday and I was wondering why do you think the date of the rapture can be predicted. Is there any format that you use? I was also wondering have you read a book called Left Behind. It is up to the fourth book in the series and I have read every one. It talks about life after the Rapture and the seven years of tribulation. That book has opened my eyes and changed my life.  If I have some way bothered you with my questions I will stop sending them. I just have many questions and a thirst for answers.

My reply

In Jesus' message to the churches, Rev. 3:3 says, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what HOUR I will come upon thee." What will we know if we do watch? Turn it around. If we do watch, he will not come on us as a thief, and we shall know what hour he will come upon the church (Rev. 3:1,6).

What is it that we can know? The word translated hour is "hora" (Strong's 5610), which can be translated as day, hour, instant, season, or time.

Young's Concordance says the number of times it is translated by each is: day 1, high time 1, hour 89, instant 1, season 3, and time 11.

It is translated as "day" in Mk 6:35: "And when the DAY was now far spent..." Young's Concordance translates as, "Many hours having been".

It is translated "hour" in Mt. 24:36: "of that day and HOUR knoweth no (man)." It is translated "hour" in Rev. 3:10: "I also will keep thee from the HOUR of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

It is translated "instant" in Luke 2:39: "she coming in that INSTANT gave thanks."

It is translated "time" in I John 2:18: "Little children, it is the last TIME: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last TIME."

While looking at I John 2, we can see something else that we should pay attention to in these latter days. These little children seem to represent the last generation. Verses 20-28 are very interesting:

"But ye have an unction (annointing) from the Holy One, and ye know ALL things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye KNOW it...he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide (meno, REMAIN, CONTINUE) in you which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning (3:11, "ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another) shall remain (meno, REMAIN, CONTINUE) in you, ye also shall CONTINUE (meno, REMAIN) in the Son, and in the Father...But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you; but as the same anointing teacheth you of ALL things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide (meno, REMAIN, CONTINUE) in him; that, when he shall appear (i.e., at the Rapture), we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."

Now, back to the subject at hand. However you think "hour" in Rev. 3:3 should be translated, we can know at least the season or general time that Jesus will come upon the church, or at the other extreme, the hour or instant.

Jesus told us 23 times to watch. In I Thess. 5:4-6, Paul said, "But ye, brethren (believers), are not in darkness, that that day ("the day of the Lord," v. 2, i.e., the Millennium) should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

The Rapture of the Tribulation saints is on the FEAST OF TRUMPETS, THE FIRST DAY OF THE MILLENNIAL DAY OF THE LORD. It is a day of "thick darkness" (Joel 2:1,2; Zeph. 1:15). (I did not mean to make all those caps. It just happened.)

The Tribulation saints (Rev. 7:14) ARE of the day of darkness. They are caught up between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals. Under the sixth seal, "the sun became BLACK as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind" (Rev. 6:12). After they are caught up, the Wrath of God, the seven trumpet judgments and the seven vials, are cast on the Earth.

However, those that are going to be caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture are "not of the night, nor of darkness." The difference is the same as between the Philadelphians, which means brotherly love, and the lukewarm Laodiceans, which means people of judgment. The Lord will pick as his Bride those who love him, not the lukewarm Laodiceans that get spewed out of his mouth. They are saved, but they do not seem to be the Bride, who wears "fine linen, clean and white...the fine linen is the righteousness (lit. righteousnesses) of saints" (Rev. 19:8). The Bride is called to the Marriage of the Lamb. However, the Tribulation saints are "called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb" (Rev. 19:9).

The Six-Day War was the Sign of the End of the Age (Mt. 24:3,32-34). It was what we were to watch for to be able to discern when end-time events would take place. It was when Israel grew leaves (Gaza, Sinai, Golan Heights and West Bank). Psa 122.3,4 (New Jerusalem Bible) says, "Jerusalem, built as a city, in ONE UNITED WHOLE, there the tribes go up, the tribes of Yahweh, A SIGN for Israel to give thanks to the name of Yahweh."

Jesus said, Verily (meaning this is important) I say unto you, This generation (that sees Israel back in the land and growing) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" (Mt. 24:34). All these things included the day of thick darkness. Verse 29 says, "the sun be darkened."

In the fig tree parable, Mt. 24:33, in the Berkeley Version, plainly tells us, "He is so near, He is at the door." Evidently, the open door placed before the Philadelphians comes after the Sign of the End of the Age, i.e., after 1967, when Jerusalem became "one united whole."

The Six-Day War took place in the Jewish 5727 (our 1967). 5727 + 40-year generation = 5767. The last day of 5767 is, I believe, the end of this age. The very next day is Tishi 1, 5768, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. God's Wrath is cast on Earth at noon (Zeph 2:4,5) that day, the Feast of Trumpets. The sixth seal breaks in Rev. 6:12. By the 17th verse, "the great day of his wrath is come." Then, in Rev. 7, we see the Tribulation saints in Heaven before the seventh seal is broken in Rev. 8. Therefore, I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place on Tishri 1, 5768.

The shortened Tribulation, including when the Jews can sacrifice in the temple and the time that they cannot, is 2300 days (Dan. 8:14). Counting backward, by Jewish inclusive reckoning, 2300 days, we find that the Tribulation, the Seventieth Week of Daniel, starts appropriately on the Feast of Weeks, Sivan 6, 5761 (our May 28, 2001).

Counting back again 4 Jewish years (from the parable of the barren fig tree, Lu. 13:6-9) from the Feast of Weeks, also called Pentecost, brings us to Pentecost in 1998. The years are 5758, 5759, 5760, and 5761. Also, the persecuted church is told, "ye shall have tribulation ten days" (Rev. 2:10). The word used for "days" can mean day, season, time or year, the meaning to be determined by the context. If this means years, it would place the Pre-Trib Rapture in 5758 if the Pre-Wrath Rapture is in 5768.

I thought the timing would be perfect and the Rapture would take place on Pentecost, Sivan 6, 5758 (our May 31, 1998), but it has not yet taken place. However, it seems to me that it should happen before another Jewish year begins this September 21, Tishri 1, 5759, the Jewish New Year. Otherwise, the four years in the parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9 would not fit. We will have to stay ready and patiently wait until the door opens in Heaven, and the Lord says, "Come up hither" (Rev. 4:1).

James 5:9 says, "behold, the judge standeth before the door." He may be selecting his Bride right now. The decision is his. In the Preview of the Rapture, John said that "out of his mouth came a "sharp twoedged sword" (Rev. 1:16). Be sure not to be an evil servant. "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (cut him off), and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers" (Lu. 12:46). Mt. 24:51 adds, "appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

BTW, I can't see how the year 5768 could be shifted. There would not be a 2300-day period to the Feast of Weeks before it, and there would not be the necessary 7 months (Ezek. 39:12) to the following Nisan 1, when Christ returns (Ezek. 29:17,21, Hosea 6:1-3), if it was not a leap year. Jewish leap years have an extra month between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1 and come on the average of every three years.

I have not read the book you mentioned, and asking questions is fine. That is what I am here for. How can we find if we do not seek?

Incoming Email

greetings in Jesus. i see by your pros and cons that you are as busy as ever! help me with something:

i believe i have seen you state that 'it has been 6000 years since Adam walked out of the garden of testing'. this would put us currently at the BEGINNING of Day 6.

if the above is true, then how can Jesus be coming soon? if He comes (2nd advent) at the END of the 6th day of the 'week', and one day is as a thousand years, then He would come at approximately the end of year 6999, correct? day/year 7,000 beginning the millenium.

if we are currently at the time period of 6000 years since Adam walked out of Eden, is Jesus 999 years away? i doubt this seriously given all the abundance of endtime evidence (yours and others).

help me out! thanks! in Jesus

My reply

Adam was cast out of the Garden of Eden in BC 4003. BC 4003 + 1000 yrs. = BC 3003. That was DAY 1 of the l000-year days. It ended in BC 3003. BC 3003 + 1000 yrs. = BC 2003. That was DAY 2, which ended in BC 2003. That first 2000 years of man's test was the Age of the Gentiles. During that time God dealt with all mankind.

BC 2003 + 1000 years = BC 1003. That was DAY 3. It ended in BC 1003. BC 1003 + 1000 yrs. = BC 3. That was DAY 4, which ended in BC 3. That 2000 years was the Age of the Jews. During that time God dealt mainly with the Israelites, i.e., Jews.

BC 3 + 1000 yrs. = 998 AD, the end of DAY 5. 998 AD + 1000 yrs. = 1998, the END of DAY 6. This 2000 years is the Age of the Church. It looks like Jesus, about two years old, was symbolically annointed as both Priest and King by the gifts brought by the wise man in BC 3.

DAY 7 is the Millennium, the 1000-yr. Day of the Lord. It would normally start with number 6001 and end with 7000, just as the 20th century started with 1901 and ends with year 2000, and the 21st century starts with 2001.

However, in Revelation, there is a parenthetic passage between the 6th and 7th seals, between the 6th and 7th trumpets, and between the 6th and 7th vials. This is because there is a parenthetic period of time inserted between the 6th and 7th GREAT DAYS. This period contains the gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation, plus the 2300-day shortened Tribulation. I believe the 2300th day of the Tribulation is the first day of the great DAY of the Lord. This entire period seems to be 5758, 5759, 5760, 5761, 5762, 5763, 5764, 5765, 5766 and 5768 (our 1998 - 2008). I think the Rapture is in the first of these years, 5758, and the Second Advent is in the last of these years, 5768.

The reason it is a parenthetic period is because it could be left out if Israel would just show fruit first. Even the Tribulation could be left out if Israel would just show fruit between the Rapture and the Tribulation (Lu. 13:6-9).

Eccl. 8:5 says, "A wise man's heart discerneth both TIME and JUDGMENT." Time seems to be 7000 years during which man is tried as mortal and knowing both good and evil. This judgment seems to be the 7-year Tribulation.

The Lord told Israel, "if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins" (Lev. 26:27,28). These seven times represent seven years, just as time, times, and half a time represent 3 1/2 years.
--
"The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins" (1 Peter 4:7-8).

Incoming Email

WOW! Marilyn - I read your pro and con 146 about the unusual snow on the mountains during July - lower than usual for the last 30 years! Also wanted to let you know that I just read a book by John Zachary. He believes the timing of the rapture could be 10th Av, which is August 2nd this year - on SUNDAY. He believes that God does things in "mirror"-type. Well, if anyone wonders about that, ask them to check out their 10 fingers and their 10 toes. Your hands are MIRRORS of each other and so are your feet! If Zachary is correct, and he certainly gives a convincing argument for it in his books, the rapture could happen around August 2nd, 1998! This would still tie in with the Rapture happening when "winter is past" and before the end of the wheat harvest! Zachary says that there are exactly 14000 days from Jesus arrival in Jerusalem on the donkey until the exact day the Jewish temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. He also says there are exactly 14000 days from the end of the 6 day war in 1967 when Jerusalem regained the temple mount until Feast of Trumpets on Oct. 5th 2005! He shows how these 2 sets of days "mirror" each other. He also points out something else I had never thought of. Ten days after Jesus' resurrection, the Holy Spirit fell on the apostles-----The mirror to this? TEN days BEFORE the revealing of the Antichrist, the christians go UP! Some food for thought! There are still many, many things pointing to a 1998 rapture!

My reply

Yes. I still think 5758 is the best time for the Rapture, but it will change to 5759 Sept. 21. In the time left are two fasts, Fast of Tamuz on Sun. 18 Tamuz (our July 12) and Fast of Av on Sun. 10 Av (our Aug. 2).

The second is because the temple was destroyed twice at that time. Since we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, living stones, there could be a connection. If you take out Christ, the corner stone, and the apostles, the foundation stones, plus the wise virgins here and there, this building would fall, much to the surprise of the Laodicean foolish virgins. Then Israel could take over the priesthood and rebuild their temple.

The Fast of Tamuz is at the time the wall of Jerusalem was finally breached by Titus in 70 AD. The 21 days between the two fasts are considered a time of bitterness and destruction for the Jews. All during that time Roman troops ransacked and destroyed in Jerusalem.

Maybe the ten days between Jesus' ascension and the coming of the Holy Spirit represent the ten years between our ascension at Rapture I in 5758 and the Second Coming of Christ in 5768.

I'm ready, waiting and watching.

Incoming Email

Nothing turns me on like the Word of the LIVING GOD!! Just as we are living through our very last days on earth, come with me to the very last page of the Old Testament!!

  In Malachi Chapter 3 God is talking about us!!

  16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
 17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
  . . . (At this point insert the Rapture!) . . . now read on!

 18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

  God Bless You Marilyn!! In His love

Incoming Email

Last friday (July 3) part of Helsinki received so much hailstone that a thick layer of it covered the earth. This was headline news in afternoon papers.

One thing - so many - even those with positive attitude seem to say that you were mistaken with the dates. Is it really so? I think that God as He commanded you to "publish ... and set a standard" would not ask you to do so if you were only partially right. You have definitely set a standard otherwise too, by laying a timeline with all end time events included. All the time you said pentecost 1998 would be the time. Maybe it was exactly the right time.
Only that one or two things were not totally understood, so that each virgin would be tested.
-The right sunday of pentecost was probably June 7th.
-that there would be a 'tarrying', a testing of 40 days.
So, should rapture occur at July 16 (or July 9) the main point that pentecost 1998 is the time to watch would be quite right.
The thing that I wonder is the sunday thing. Is it 100% sure that the day mentioned in apocalypse is sunday and could not apply to any other day? Is there any other scripture that suggest sunday? Even if the book of apocalypse is written as rapture would be at hand - does it have to mean it is sunday and no other day?
The days (nights) to look would be July 9, 12 or 16.

He will come soon!

My reply

In Revelation 1:10, it is not the "sabbaton," but the "kuriake" day. What day besides Sunday do you think that could be? On Resurrection Sunday, Jesus proved that he was the Lord, "kurios." Jesus is also Lord of the Sabbath. He was born on the Sabbath. Jesus was the Firstfruits. On "the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it" (Lev. 23:11). Firstfruits was on Sunday. Sabbath means rest, and on the Saturday Sabbath, Jesus rested, both after creation in Genesis and after his crucifixion. He worked on the first day of the week.

On Resurrection Day, Sunday, Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven. To me, it makes sense that on Sunday, Jesus will take the Church saints to Heaven. Would he work on the Sabbath? or rest? See what you think.

Incoming Email

Important Information Regarding Tammuz 17-18 (July 11-12) and Forty-Two Days
In reference to the incoming e-mail posted at Pros and Cons 145, someone suggested that the Jewish Fast of Tammuz might be the day of the rapture based on the three sets of fourteen generations of Matthew chapter 1, as well as the number forty-two.

First, a careful reading of the genealogy of Matthew shows that there are only 41 generations involved -- not 42 -- despite the fact that there are three sets of fourteen generations (the generation of the Babylonian exile is counted twice).

Second, based upon E.W. Bullinger's book, Number in Scripture, page 268, the number forty-two "is a number connected with Anitchrist." "An important part of his career is to last for 42 months (Rev. 11:2, 13:5), and thus this number is fixed upon him. . . . Its factors are six and seven (6 X 7 = 42) and this shows a connection between man and the Spirit of God, and between Christ and Antichrist: Forty-two stages of Israel's wonderings mark their conflict with the will of God. Forty-two young men mocked the ascension of Elijah to Elisha (2 Kings 2:23-24). Being a multiple of seven, it might be supposed that it would be connected with spiritual perfection. But it is the product of six times seven. Six, therefore, being the number of Man, and of man's opposition to God, forty-two becomes significant of the working out of man's opposition to God. There many be something more in the common phrase about things being all 'sixes and sevens.' They are so, indeed, when man is mixed up with the things of God, and when religion 'flesh' engages in spiritual things. In gematria it is a factor in the number of Nimrod's name, which is 294, or 42 X 7. It will be often found as a factor in the Antichrist names."

Third, Tammuz 17-18 seems to be associated with idolatry. According to Day by Day in Jewish History: A Chronology and Calendar of Historic Events by Abraham P. Bloch, page 228, on Tammuz 18 "Moses destroyed the golden calf . . . " Also, on Tammuuz 17, "Moses broke the [fist set of the] Tablets of the Law . . . King Manasseh placed a graven image of Asherah in the temple . . ." Per The Jewish Holidays: A Guide and Commentary, by Michael Strassfeld, page 80, "The tradition ascribes a number of catastrophes to that day [Fast of Tammuz], most notable the breaching of the walls of Jerusalem by the Romans (A.D. 70) . . . [o]ther catastrophes include the cessation of the daily sacrifice at the temple during the siege of Jerusalem, and the burning of a Torah scroll and the erection of an idol in the temple by Apostomos." This same book states "[d]uring the period of mourning known as the [T]he Three Weeks [Fast of Tammuz to Tisha Be-Av] . . ., no weddings or other joyous celebrations are held, particularly those involving instrumental music."

About the only thing that would seem to fit about this day are our L-rd's words concerning his coming: "In such a day as you think not."

Looking and waiting for Yeshua's return, too!

Incoming Email

I haven't e-mailed you in a while because I know you are up to your neck in the one's already received, but I must respond to a growing trend that is developing in these e-mails.

The Caps guy is being ridiculed more and more for his theory of the Jericho comparisson and is being told by the e-mailers to keep his opinions to himself for the "glory" of the belief in Christ.. It is very obvious that Caps knows his scripture far better than any of his critics.

In the following two quotes, God tells us what He wants us to do:

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness". (2 Timothy 2:15-16)

"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works". (2 Timothy 3:12-17)

The only thing caps is quilty of is following the above quotes. He is "rightly dividing the word" as we are all told by God to so do. Whether he is right or wrong is not the point. The point is to search and search, and try and try, and study and study. We should all "talk out loud" to each other about our thoughts on scripture. That IS the purpose of the church. The more we disscuss amoung ourselves, the more we ALL learn. Marilyn, you overlooked for many years the concept of a "tarry" that had been staring you and everyone else in the face the whole time. Since May 31, we all have learned a great deal from the in-puts on this web site, and this learning proccess will continue up to the moment that "Come up Here!" resounds in our ears.

Caps is not the "babbler". The "babblers" are the ones who try to talk with the baby bottle of milk still in their mouths. If they will stay still and listen and drink their milk, then their meat will come in their due season.

Keep it up Caps. Your heart is in the right place.

Incoming Email

Hi, I pray that the Lord sustains you! as I known he has and will:0)

You have made refences to the two raptures-one comment you make is how the animals went in two by two. I just thought i'd make a point-you probably know it any way- but Noah was commanded ;-

Genesis 7:2 "you will take with you Seven each of every clean animal, a male and female: two each of animals that are unclean, a male and female.

Do you think there is anything in the fact that God only choose 2 unritually clean animals and 7 ritually clean animals.?

My reply

The main reason for the extra clean animals was so Noah would be able to offer sacrifices to the Lord afterward. The sacrifice of clean animals represented Christ. He was sacrificed to save the unclean, and His number is 7, the number of perfection.

   Pro and Con 148   Or Return  Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@kiwi.net

send me e-mail now.

8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110, FAX (909) 697-8960


© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 7-7-98