Pro and Con 149, Uploaded 7-10-98

Incoming Email

Is the wheat still in the field near your house? You haven't mentioned it in the Pro/Con's lately - thought I'd ask.

I'm in Upland and can still see the snow here in the mountains. I pray for your continued health and the strength to keep up the wonderful work the Lord is doing through you. I know that I've been blessed beyond measure. Maranatha, Still looking up!

My reply

The wheat is still in the field. It is funny. All the other fields around have been harvested and even the straw cut, yet this still stands.

Incoming Email

The rapture has not come yet today... when will it? Also dosent the Bible say that NO ONE will know the time or the day.

But what you you have said even thought it may appear false has had a positive effect in my life... I have just realized last night after I prayed... What if the rapture were tommrow will i have any regrets? The only one that I came to is 'is there anyone that could be going that is not because I havent told thm about Jesus?' This has re-kindled the fire I have for the lost.

But i thank you that even thought your message is worng it has had a positive effect on my life. Thanks

My reply

Thanks for sharing this with me. I said I wanted to be everyone's wake-up call. I will be happy if I can just do that for some.

The doctrine of His imminent return, even though the word does not appear in the Bible, does not seem to do what some think it should. The idea is that if we think He can come at any time, we should live as if He would come the next instant. Trouble is, when people think that it could be today, tomorrow, next year, next century, etc. they tend to put off making sure they are ready themselves and telling others to get ready. It makes one think that there is probably plenty of time, after all it has been a long time already. But, one of these days, time will run out, and I think it will run out soon. I think it is now imperative to get ready, stay ready, and tell as many as we can about Christ. What if we don't have much more time? I don't want to risk it. Do you?

Israel is back in the land. She took all of Jerusalem, including the temple area, in the Six-Day War of 1967. We are living "in the latter years." Ezek. 38:8 says, "in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them." Right now, we are between the time of her coming back into the land and her dwelling safely. Life is perilous in Israel right now, but the Lord's coming is near.

Mt. 24:33 (NASB) says, "when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door." When the door will open, we can only guess right now, but when the Rapture is "at hand" as in Rev. 1:3 and 22:10, the door set before the Philadelphian church is "open" (Rev. 3:8). We can't be very far from that day. And, when it opens, Jesus said to those who had left their first love, "I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of HIS PLACE (the place Christ went to prepare for us), except thou repent" (Rev. 2:5). We don't want to be on the outside of the door when it closes. The Laodiceans quickly face a closed door.

Incoming Email

I thank the Lord for you and your patience during your many years of diligent studies. Your patience is even more admirable during these days of scoffers and critics. I used to come to web sites like yours for new information confirming for me the certainty of our Lord's soon return. During this last week however my visits have been more for personal encouragement while we wait. Tonight I realized how much more you need the encouragement in the face of the attacks against your writings. Why are people wasting your time with trivial arguments that only serve to bring down our spirits when we should be lifting one another up? I'll always remember what one of our teachers said during a class at the Salvation Army training college: "Don't expect to find the devil sitting on the curb waiting for you outside the building. You'll find him right here in your midst." Nothing has changed. The enemy is busy in our midst trying to discourage us and turn us away from the "blessed hope". Anyway, I thought I'd share with you an email I sent today to the 5 Doves site.

Marilyn, hang in there. You have been doing a good work. The Lord will reward you richly and all those like you. Thank you. A brother in Christ
---
"GET ME ON THE FIRST BUS OUTTA HERE!

"I don't know about you, but I feel a lot like the man who has been diagnosed with terminal cancer and told he has only a few days to live. As a result he changes his priorities, he makes sure all his affairs are in order, and he certainly sees the world in a different light. The only difference is the ending.
I'm finding it very difficult to carry on with the daily activities of my life without trying to analyze its relevance to our soon departure. I suppose that is why the date has been hidden from us until recently. The Lord knew the effect it would have on us.
Here are a few of my thoughts over the last couple of days:

1. Reading some of the negative comments and criticisms towards our belief in a '98 Pentecost Rapture confirms to me many people's general attitude toward life. They see the 1/2 glass of water as half empty, rather than half full. Instead of concentrating on plan A, and sharing in the excitement of the possibility of the rapture and getting themselves prepared just in case it happens, they would rather opt for plan B and focus on us being wrong, ridiculing us, and of course making contingency plans in case we are wrong. I'll stick with plan A.

"2. The lack of interest in our Lord's return demonstrates the Church's attachment to this world and the things in it. It may be that the majority of believers are too weighed down with the many things they are presently enjoying or are planning to enjoy in the future to be able to get airborn when the Lord calls us up. As others have commented, maybe the number of believers taken will be quite small compared to all those who make up the whole body of Christ, which expects the rapture some day for the hundreds of millions in the church.
When I thought about this it actually made sense from a kingdom perspective. It solves the problem of 'too many chiefs and not enough Indians.' (pardon the analogy ) We have the promise of Rev.5:10 of reigning with Christ. Yet, we can't all be chiefs can we? Where are all the Indians? There has to be someone to reign over. And since the unrighteous will be destroyed in God's wrath during the tribulation, who would go into the Millenium to repopulate the world? What better candidates than all those believers who are presently so attached to this world and quite happy and content to remain in it. God still loves them; Christ died for them; their soul's salvation is assured, but the redemption (translation) of their bodies will have been forfeited. As a result they will be refined in the fire of the coming tribulation, yet saved out of it.
Those of us who have been watching and waiting with keen anticipation for our Lord's return, even after a few disappointing dead-end dates, know we donšt belong here.
Although we are tempted by and sometimes have given in to the enemy, we hate sin. We hate it in others and we hate it in ourselves. We hate it to the point of crying out to God, 'Lord Jesus, come quickly! I can't stand it any more! Get me out of this depraved, sin-sick world !' Maybe that is what it means to Watch and Pray.
----You finally have gotten hold of a bus schedule and are now standing at the lonely bus stop. You wait patiently as you peer into the distance. A passer-by chuckles: 'Youšre wasting your time buddy. We ain't had a bus stop here in years.' Once or twice you thought you heard the roaring of an engine, but it was a false alarm. Another asks: 'Are you sure you've read your schedule right? Maybe you're on the wrong street!' Yet you persist because you know the schedule was published by the bus line, and you desperately want to get out of this town. Finally, when the sun dips below the horizon and darkness seems to close in around you as the last few seconds tick away..........the roar of a diesel!
As the bright headlights sweep around the corner and the welcome sound of the engine intensifies, you can just barely make out hrough the dusty glass of the destination board:
"GLORY EXPRESS". It was worth the lonely wait."

My reply

Sorry, I had so much to do I couldn't get this posted in a timely fashion, but I do appreciate it.

Thanks for all your kindness. The critics who are unloving are only hurting themselves, no one else. Christians are supposed to deal with each other in love. If we forget that, we need to reread the New Testament on how to live the Christian life, go over the basics again. It may be super important right now. The judge is standing at the door.

James 5:7-9 says, "Be patient therefore, brethren (believers), unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early (autumn showering, starts Tishri 1) and latter rain (gathered spring rain, starts Nisan 1). Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door."

"He is so near, He is at the door" (Mt. 24:33, Berkeley Version)

I am beginning the think that just maybe our bus out of here will leave on the Eve of the Feast of Trumpets. We are the Bride of the second Adam, and Eve was taken out of the body of the first Adam on the day before God rested on the 7th day. That Sabbath was probably Tishri 1, when this "kosmos," world order, began to operate after the creating and making of Genesis.

Eve was taken out of Adam's body on the 6th day and this is the 6000th year of man's test being mortal and knowing both good and evil. The Rapture is as the days of Noah and Noah was 600 years old when the Flood waters came. Also, 5758 means the season of Noah; 58 spells Noah.

The Jewish New Year's Eve would still be 5758, so there would still be 4 years to fit the parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9, because the Jews count part of a year as a year. The years between the Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation would still be 5758, 5759, 5760, and 5761, by inclusive reckoning.

We would begin to live in a new "kosmos" on Tishri 1, as Adam and Eve did. It would still be summer too. We don't want to have to say, "The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved" (Jer. 8:20).

Incoming Email

I've read your book "Revelations 2000" and my eyes have been opened to deeper areas of God's Word! Great work!
I have one question for you: I have heard different views concerning the last " Generation". I know you refer to the generation as 40 years that "shall not pass away".
As a period of time. Have you ever thought that the final generation may be a people that shall not pass away ? That would mean that the time frame there may be 70 or 80 years .(average life span) Thanks for any comments!

My reply

...In 30 AD, the things that Jesus mentioned in Mt. 24 before the parable of the fig tree have not taken place yet. He could not have been referring to the generation of that day in the parable, as some say. However, he did say that some things would come upon that generation, and they did, in 70 AD, when Jerusalem, including the temple, was destroyed.

The generation that died off in the wilderness was 40 years. The generation from 30 AD to 70 AD was 40 years. I believe this generation that sees the fig tree grow leaves will also be 40 years.

Incoming Email

As I read your site, I find myself wondering the following: If the nation of Israel has been removed from being the keepers of the Kingdom message (Matt. 21) and if the feasts of the Old Testament were merely shadows pointing to fulfillment in Christ, is is legitimate to use the Jewish calander and Jewish feast days to plot a time for a supposed future rapture?

The changing of the Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday seems to corrolate this idea. Furthermore, Peter was divorced from the idea of not eating those animals which were ceremonially unclean. It just seems to me that all the ceremony that belonged to Israel passed away upon Messiah's fulfillment of those ceremonies.

My reply

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (II Tim. 3:16).

"the secrets of wisdom, that they are double (almost like carbon copies, but types and antitypes) to that which is" (Job. 11:6).

"Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate" (Isa. 34:16).

"Now all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (ages) are come" (I Cor. 10:11).

Jesus said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mk. 13:23). All the clues are there. We just have to search for them.

"Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God" (Prov. 2:3-5).

The whole Bible is a Jewish book, using the Jewish calendar. We have to use it to determine times in the Bible.

> The changing of the Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday seems to corrolate this idea.

The Sabbath was never changed. It is still Saturday. We can worship on any day we want. Many worship on the first day of the week, Sunday, because Christ was resurrected that day. I go to church sometimes on Saturday and sometimes on Sunday. Col. 2:16 says, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

> Furthermore, Peter was divorced from the idea of not eating
> those animals which were ceremonially unclean. It just seems to me that
> all the ceremony that belonged to Israel passed away upon Messiah's
> fulfillment of those ceremonies.

Not all have been fulfilled yet. The Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement, and the Feast of Tabernacles have not. Some feasts will even be kept as a memorial during the Millennium. Zech. 14:16,17 says, "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain."

However, the Feasts were given to the Jews. They were for worship and to establish the pattern of coming events. That pattern has already been established. We should learn about the feasts, but we are not duty bound to keep them. At this time, we can keep the feasts if we want to, but we do not have to.

Incoming Email

I would like to know what you yhink about these signs and how you see them tying in with your views of the end times.

Moses wrote and God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs..." (Genesis 1:14)

Think about that. Believers in the Word of God don't subscribe to astrology and other ancient pagan mythology pertaining to the positions of stars and planets. Yet, our Heavenly Father created the sun and the moon and the stars for His glory, and for signs pertaining to the first and second coming of Christ. Thus it is more than interesting to note just what is happening today in the heavenlies above.

Since the spring of 1996, there have been consecutive lunar eclipses on every major full moon feast day of Israel. The first occurred on Passover, April 3, 1996. The next occurred on the Eve of the Feast of Tabernacles, Sept. 27, 1996. The third happened on Purim, March 3, 1997. And another will fall in the middle of the Days of Repentance, Sept. 16, 1997.

This Jewish religious year, then, will have begun and ended with lunar eclipses. At the same time, the comet Hyakutake was at its closest encounter with the earth on Passover 1996, while comet Hale-Bopp was at the same point in the sky on Passover 1997. Coincidence? Perhaps. But there's more to this story.

The path Hyakutake followed through the heavens last year was between the handle of the Big Dipper, which, to the ancients, symbolized the flock of the Good Shepherd, and Arcturus, meaning "He comes." The Book of Job refers to this group of heavenly bodies as "Arcturus with his sons" -- a good shepherd leading his flock. (Job 38:32) Speculation? Certainly. But, again, consider the path of Hale-Bopp.

One year after Hyakutake, the spectacular Hale-Bopp appeared from Sagittarius -- "the double-natured one." Hale-Bopp itself has seemed to be something of a double-natured comet, given its simultaneous discovery by two men who knew nothing of each other's work but who have a strikingly similar physical appearance. At times the comet has also appeared to have two tails.

Hale-Bopp continued on its path through the constellation Opheuchus, "the Serpent Holder." The comet followed the path of the serpent restrained in the arms of Opheuchus. Could this be a sign of the time when the serpent and his power will no longer be restrained here on earth? (Daniel 12:1; II Thessalonians 2:6)

Hale-Bopp then journeys across the constellation Orion. According to the Talmudic sages, a comet crossing Orion signifies great tribulation for the earth. Superstition? Maybe. But interesting in light of the emerging pattern of circumstances. And there's even more taking place in the heavens right now -- and for the next few years.

From the beginning of the Jewish new year in September 1996 until Passover 1999, something unusual will happen -- in fact, something that will not occur again for 11,000 years. The new moon will rise from the horizon directly in the constellation of Virgo and move within 24 hours to the feet of the "virgin." The sun, during this period, will be just below the horizon, appearing to clothe this woman giving birth to the moon. (Revelation 12:1) Remember, the moon is very significant to the Jews. It is the basis of their calendar system and symbolizes the Messiah.

Now comes the best part. On May 7, 2000, or Iyar 2,576(0) on the Hebrew calendar, Venus, Mercury, the Sun, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and the Moon, will all appear from the earth to be lined up. According to the first century historian Josephus, these seven heavenly bodies represent the menorah in the Temple ("Antiquities" 3, 11:7) Not only does the moon represent the Messiah in the Talmudic tradition, but the center lampstand of the menorah does, too. The three candle branches on either side of the center stem represent man grafted into the Messiah. Is our Heavenly Father recreating a symbolic menorah in the skies on this date? Consider also that on this date Solomon started to build the first Temple and Ezra began building the second! Does this signify the imminent building of the third Temple mentioned in II Thessalonians 2:4?

The birth of Jesus, the Scriptures tell us, was preceded by signs in the heavens. It was a mysterious "star" that led the wise men to Bethlehem. Some believe that star was actually the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter in the constellation Pisces. Is it any wonder we should be witnessing similar -- perhaps even more dramatic -- signs in the heavens if we are indeed on the threshold of the return of our Lord? Jesus Himself told us to expect such things. (Matthew 24:29)

At the same time, the Bible warns against attempts to set dates for the return of our beloved Savior. We should scrupulously avoid such unscriptural practices. Yet, the Word of God commands us to recognize the general "signs of the times" which will herald His coming. Some spectacular signs are occurring right now. Look up, friends, our redemption draweth nigh! (Luke 21:11, Luke 21:25)

My reply

In Luke 21:9-12 (KJV), Jesus said, "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by (immediately). Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you..." Then after verse 24's "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled," he said, "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring." This last obviously refers to the catastrophe at the end of the shortened Tribulation, when the mountain burning with fire is cast into the Mediterranean Sea and the star burning with fire destroys Babylon (Rev. 8:8,10; 18:21). Whether the first mention of signs from heaven in verse 11 refers to the same thing or earlier signs, I am not certain.

A lot of things you mentioned sure seem like signs because of the dates they fall on, but I can't be sure. However, the comet, or asteroid, pieces hitting Jupiter seemed to me that God was demonstrating to us the type of catastrophe that was coming on the Earth. It sure made skeptical astronomers sit up and take notice as well as the general population. I feel like it was a warning and showed us how the prophecies of Rev. 8:8,10 would be fulfilled on the day of the awakening blast (the Feast of Trumpets of 5768 (our 2007).

The lineup of planets in 2000 is of interest to me for more than one reason. I think that sacrificing will begin in the temple on the Feast of Weeks, May 28, 2001. This lineup will take place the preceding May, an important month for Israel became a nation in May, 1948. Evidently, the lineup of planets will persist for several days, and the greatest mass of our solar system will be on one side of us.

The other reason is that I had automatic capitalization take place when I was answering some email about it. Here is what I saved in my CAPS folder.

"(2) my friend ---- had sent me a letter saying that in August, B.C. 2, there was a massing together of four of the primary planets, Jupiter, Mars, Venus, and Uranus, in the vicinity of the sun. Astronomers said that was the beginning of a new age. We are now on the horizon of a new massing of the same planets, Jupiter, Mars, Venus, and Uranus, plus Saturn and the moon. All will be in the vicinity of the sun--a rare event! All the seven heavenly bodies will be coming together in a massing of the planets. It will occur May 5, 2000. Is this the sign Jesus speaks about in Luke 21:25,26?

"As I typed my answer, I said, 'I don't know right off if the massing of the planets on May 5, 2000 is the sign Jesus spoke of in Luke 21:25,26, but it will be Friday, Nisan 30, 5760 on the Jewish Calendar. Since I grabbed a Bible at random and have the Lamsa Bible on my desk, I'll just quote what it says and see if I can get any idea on this. I'll start with the last of verse 24 and quote through 28:'

"'Jerusalem will be trodden under the feet of the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles comes to an end. AND THERE WILL BE SIGNS IN SUN AND MOON AND STARS; AND ON EARTH DISTRESS OF THE NATIONS, AND CONFUSION BECAUSE OF THE ROARING OF THE SEA; And upheaval that takes life out of men, because of fear of what is to come on earth; and the powers of the universe will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with a large army and great glory. But when these things begin to happen, have courage and lift up your heads, because your salvation is at hand' (Luke 21:25,26)."

That was only the second time the caps thing happened without my doing it. Neither the shift key nor the caps lock key were down. My eyes were on the Bible as I typed. As I looked back at my screen, I was astonished. I tell you, it got my attention.

The first time it happened, this is what came out in caps:

"(1) 'Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: FOR THE FINE LINEN IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF SAINTS. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.' (Rev. 19:7-9) (Immediately, I understood that the righteousness of saints determines which Rapture they go to Heaven in. The same week, my son David stepped out in his hall and heard the Lord speaking to him. What stuck was that to go in the Rapture, we must be 'perfect.' Therefore, we must confess all our sins and be wearing the white wedding garment if we want to be part of the Bride of Christ.)"

Another time, "HEAVEN IS A BRIGHT AND MORNING STAR" was capitalized. Oh wow! If the Rapture takes place on the Eve of the Feast of Trumpets, Saturn will still be a morning star. I forgot to consider that yesterday. It became a visible morning star about mid May and will become an evening star in the latter part of October, so just before Trumpets still fits. The trumpet is sounded each day of Elul too, to remind us to repent as a buildup to the Feast of Trumpets and the following Day of Atonement.

> Is our Heavenly Father recreating a symbolic menorah in the skies on this date?
> Consider also that on this date Solomon started to build the first
> Temple and Ezra began building the second! Does this signify the
> imminent building of the third Temple mentioned in II Thessalonians 2:4?

I wonder too.

"He is so near, He is at the door" (Mt. 24:33, Berkeley Version).

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 7-10-98