Pro and Con 1498

Posted 6-22-09

SIGNS?

New proposed type: Asperatus Clouds, seen over NZ
I've never seen anything remotely like them

Noctilucent Clouds

(Budapest, June 15) "It is clear that these clouds are CHANGING, a SIGN that a part of our atmosphere is changing and we do not understand how, why or what it means," AIM principal investigator James Russell III said... http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.melissaomarkham.com/images/Noctilucent_clouds_over_saimaa.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.melissaomarkham.com/2007/07/todays_interesting_science_new_1.html&usg=__PFr5_QuZUTyDahIFAT06FVkaeS4=&h=337&w=250&sz=11&hl=en&start=10&um=1&tbnid=Y-L6eIB9wBzY6M:&tbnh=119&tbnw=88&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnoctilucent%2Bclouds%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1

Click below for a large picture.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1193960/Midnight-sun-Night-shining-clouds-light-dark-skies-Britain.html

Incoming e-mail, Re: Electric-blue Clouds Sweep Across Europe

Enjoy these wonderful pictures and pray for our poor country. In Christ

http://spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=18&month=06&year=2009

Electric-blue Clouds Sweep Across Europe
Space Weather News, June 17, 2009
http://spaceweather.com

"NIGHT-SHINING CLOUDS (seen from an airplane): On June 16th, a remarkably intense display of electric-blue noctilucent clouds (NLCs) swept across Europe. Sightings were made in Belgium, Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Germany, Poland and the British Isles. These mysterious clouds are known to flourish during years of solar minimum--and 2009 is such a year. This means more NLCs may be in the offing, not only over Europe but also North America and elsewhere."

My reply

Thanks. They are one beautiful surprise, usually seen about half an hour after sundown....Agape.

Father, we pray for the peace and well-being of the USA and Israel, especially Jerusalem. In Jesus' name, Amen.

Incoming e-mail

We are all disappointed that June 7th came and went without hearing The Shout. However, I am still looking forward to this weekend – especially since Sunday is the 29th of Sivan, which is the date that the spies were sent into the Promised Land. It is also the new moon and the beginning of summer. Can we possibly last another year? Any semblance of godliness in our land is being swallowed up by a Sodom and Gomorrah tsunami. Come, Lord Jesus!... With love in Christ Jesus, your servant in His Service

My reply

Thanks for setting me straight. I thought the time of firstripe grapes was Sivan 30, but Sivan 29 is even better. We are hoping for the Rapture right along with you. It will be great if it happens on Sunday.

> > Any semblance of godliness in our land is being swallowed up by a Sodom and Gomorrah tsunami. Come, Lord Jesus!

Amen....

Surely, the Sodom and Gomorrah tsunami belongs in the Tribulation. The fix in Lot's day was total annihilation of five cities by an asteroid impact so great that it split the Earth from Turkey to Lake Nyassa in Africa. It formed the Great Rift Valley. The five cities turned to ashes around the Dead Sea. The bed rock under the sea was punched down so far that the Dead Sea is far below sea level. In the first century AD, Josephus said that the fruit near the Dead Sea looked good to eat, but if you touched it, it turned into ashes.

Why can't people learn from that catastrophe (the Earth still shakes frequently in that area to remind them) or from Rev. 8:8-11?

It says, "And the second angel sounded, and as it were A GREAT MOUNTAIN BURNING WITH FIRE was cast into the sea (i.e., the Mediterranean Sea): and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. And the third angel sounded, and THERE FELL A GREAT STAR FROM HEAVEN, BURNING AS IT WERE A LAMP, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood (a good name for Satan's asteroid, it means bitter): and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

We have been told what is going to happen in both the Old and New Testaments. Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? (i.e., an asteroid, a piece of Satan's planet Rahab that split apart) Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL INTO A LARGE COUNTRY (not tiny Israel): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

I found that scripture after our president was given a 22" statue of Isaiah. The notice was a small note in the Santa Ana Register. I decided to see what Isa. 22 said, and was astonished.

The asteroid Wormwood came from Satan's planet Rahab. Isa 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (Christ, Isa. 53); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (lit., split) Rahab (meaning proud), and wounded the dragon?" (Satan).

Of the future Day of God's Wrath, Mal 4:1-3 says, "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness (Christ) arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts" (Christ).

Isa 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and HIS REDEEMER THE LORD (YHWH) OF HOSTS; I am the first (YHWH the King of Israel), and I am the last (YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer, Christ); and beside me there is no God."

Dan 12:1 says, "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble (day of Jacob's trouble), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people (the 144,000 of Rev. 7:1-8; 14:3-5) shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

Since we can see the day of the Last-Trump Rapture approaching, how much more so the day of the First-Trump Rapture. It can't be far away. Agape

A post to me on Five Dove's site, Re: "The Third Week of Jacob's Trouble"

Pineman (18 June 2009)
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2009/june.htm

In response to your comment:
"Third week of Jacob's trouble! I don't see how there can be more than one Day of Jacob's Trouble, the Day of God's Wrath.
Jer 30:7 says, "Alas! for THAT DAY IS GREAT, SO THAT NONE IS LIKE IT: IT IS EVEN THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE; but he shall be saved out of it."

The Day of God's wrath and the time of Jacob's trouble are two different things. When Jesus comes back on Rosh Hashanah 2014 Jacob's trouble is over with and it is now trouble for others: NOT JACOB.
Pineman

My reply

I think the Day of God's wrath is the Day of Jacob's trouble, and no other day is like it. It takes place 7 months (Eze. 39:12,13) before the Second Advent.

Jer 30:3-24 (KJV) says, 3 "For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it. 4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. 5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. 6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? 7 Alas! for THAT DAY IS GREAT, SO THAT NONE IS LIKE IT: IT IS EVEN THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE; but he shall be saved out of it. 8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: 9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them. 10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I WILL SAVE THEE FROM AFAR (i.e., by means of the asteroid impacts of Rev. 8:8-11), and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. 11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

12 "For thus saith the LORD, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous. 13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines. 14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased. 15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee. 16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey. 17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after. 18 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof. 19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small. 20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them. 21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD. 22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury (chemah, WRATH), a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.24 The fierce anger (aph, WRATH) OF THE LORD shall not return, until he have done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it."

Those last two verses in the Geneva Bible say, "Beholde, the tempest of the Lorde goeth foorth with WRATH: the whirlewinde that hangeth ouer, shall light vpon the head of the wicked. The fierce WRATH OF THE LORDE shall not returne, vntill he haue done, and vntill he haue performed the intents of his heart: in the latter dayes ye shall vnderstand it."

THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH, THE DAY OF JACOB'S TROUBLE, IS ONE DAY "SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION"

This is the same day as in Daniel 12:1. The KJV says, "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: and at that time thy people (i.e., the 144,000 of Rev. 7 and 14:3-5) shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

THE DAY OF JACOB'S TROUBLE IS ALSO THE DAY OF THE LORD, THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH, AND THE FEAST OF TRUMPETS

Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for THE DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY shall it come."

Joel 2:1,2 says, "Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong (Gog's army, Eze. 38:18-20); THERE HATH NOT BEEN EVER THE LIKE, NEITHER SHALL BE ANY MORE AFTER IT, even to the years of many generations." Agape

A post on Five Doves, Re: "There Are More Than Just Two Heavens"

Joe Hoyle (29 Apr 2009)

There are more that just two Heavens, and Paradise is just one of those Heavens.. The Apostle Paul, in the often quoted 2Corinthians's 12:2, speaks of being caught up to "Third Heaven".
In 12:4, he refers to this place as being "Paradise".
The two has to be one and the same place, which most everybody would agree.

There are two Old Testament scriptures that speaks of the "The Heaven and Highest Heaven". (Deuteronomy 10:14 and 1Kings 8:27)
Some people also refers to the "Highest Heaven" as being the "Heaven of Heavens".

In the Book of Enoch, Enoch is said to have seen the Lord God face to face.
The Book of Enoch also refers to this meeting place as being "Seventh Heaven"--which would have to be the--"Highest Heaven".
There can be no other.

My reply

I agree that "There Are More Tnan Just Two Heavens." There are at least three. However, I wonder if the Book of Enoch is telling the truth. Let's look at the scriptures again and see if the Book of Enoch agrees with Scripture. Also, let's see if we can figure out just what De 10:14 really means.

In 2Co 12:2-4 (KJV), Paul said, "I knew a man in Christ [Paul himself, he didn't want to boast, v.7] above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into PARADISE". From Earth, the 3rd heaven is Saturn.

Josephus, a 1st century Pharisee, indicated that the Temple lampstand stood for (1) the Sun, (2) Mercury, (3) Venus, (4) Earth, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter, and (7) Saturn, the last of the naked-eye planets known to the ancients. Therefore, the 7th heaven does make sense.

It is a surprise to see the Sun referred to as a planet. However, to those in the 1st century, a planet was a moving body. The stars were considered stationary, but the Sun, Moon and planets moved with respect to the starry background.

In Ant. III. VI. 7, Josephus described the Temple lampstand. He said that "the shaft elevated itself on high from a single base, and spread itself into as many branches as there are planets, including the sun among them." In Wars. V. V. 5, he said, "Now the seven lamps signified the seven planets".

No wonder the western lamp was to always be kept burning. It stood for the Sun. That is in favor of Josephus telling the truth.

From Earth, Saturn is the third heaven, (1) Mars, (2) Jupiter, (3) Saturn.

Once we underatand that, we can figure out how De 10:14 agrees. It says, "Behold, the heaven (i.e., Mars) and the heaven of heavens (Saturn, the outermost of two, Jupiter and Saturn) is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is."

The 7th heaven is not mentioned in Scripture, and we couldn't name off a 7th heaven if Mars is the 1st heaven as in II Cor. 12:2,3. We would say Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. That's six.

However, there were 10 planets in the beginning, (1) Mercury, (2) Venus, (3) Earth, (4) Mars, (5) Rehab, Satan's planet that split apart forming our Asteroid Belt, (6) Jupiter, (7) Saturn, (8) Uranus, (9) Neptune, and (10) Pluto.

This shows us how Saturn can be considered the 7th heaven, and with a little work, it can be tied in with Scripture.

First, we have to figure out Ezekiel's vision of "God" (Eze. 1:1). That took me over 7 years, for in all the books in BIOLA's Seminary Collection, I couldn't find one explanation I could accept as true. They either left it out, or went off on what I considered a flight of fancy.

Leaving man's works aside, I asked the Lord's help and started looking up all the original words in Strong's Concordance. When I realized that nogahh could be sunlight, I caught on. The fire enfolding itself is the Sun. Around it orbit 4 terrestrial planets. They are given wings to symbolize flight.

Earth is one of 4 terrestrial planets orbiting in concentric circles around the Sun. Eze 1:15,16 says, "Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel (orbit) upon the EARTH by the living creatures (lively things, moving planets), with his four faces (like the 4 flags at the cardinal compass points when Israel camped in the desert; i.e., facing 4 directions as it orbits in a circle). The appearance of the wheels (orbits) and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel."

Only then could I understand Eze 1:26-28. It says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (farther out in space than the terrestrial planets) was the likeness (symbolic language) of a THRONE, AS THE APPEARANCE OF A SAPPHIRE STONE (sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the sanskrit sani, Saturn, and priya, dear; as Jesus' September's birthstone, the sapphire means heaven): and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (the man/God Jesus Christ) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and IT (i.e., Saturn) HAD BRIGHTNESS ROUND ABOUT (i.e., Saturn's 7 rings) it had brightness round about. As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

Now that we understand that the sapphire stone represents Saturn, we can understand Eze. 28:13-15. Addressing Satan, it says, "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone (i.e., planet) was thy covering (surroundings), the sardius (1. Mercury), topaz (2. Venus), and the diamond (3. Earth), the beryl (4. Mars), the onyx (5. Rahab), and the jasper (6. Jupiter), the sapphire (7. Saturn), the emerald (8. Uranus), and the carbuncle (9. Neptune), and gold (10. Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth (referring to Gen. 3:24); and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God (i.e., Saturn); thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (i.e., on the 5th planet Rahab). Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

Gen 3:24 says, "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims (planets that rise in the east), and a flaming sword which turned every way (rotated and orbited), to keep the way of (or to) the tree of life" (which is now in Heaven). An asteroid called Wormwood in Rev. 8:11 is Satan's home since his planet Rahab was split apart. Wormwood will become the Sword of the Lord that will strike Earth on the Day of God's Wrath.

Now, we can understand Isa. 51:9. It says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (the Son of God, the LORD of hosts, Christ, Isa. 44:6; 53:1.2); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (i.e., split) Rahab, and wounded the dragon?" (Satan).

Now, we can also understand Isa. 22:16-19. It says, "What hast thou here (Babylon)? and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock (the asteroid Wormwood)? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TORN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL INTO A LARGE COUNTRY (not tiny Israel): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."
Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Hoping for a Pentecost 2009 Rapture anyway!

The primary scriptures that always comes to mind is Matthew 25:6, where the bridegroom comes in the middle of the night. Study has shown that “midnight” in that era was exactly as stated: the middle of the night.

It seems obvious that the “night” must be the 70th week of Daniel, or the 7-year Tribulation. Then amazingly, this scripture is apparently fulfilled in Rev. 14:14-18.

These verses detail:

the Son of Man,
with a golden crown,
coming on the clouds,
with the angels,
reaping the harvest.

Can anyone deny verses 14-16 of Rev. 14 detail the rapture??

Now this takes place after the midpoint of the week, which is clearly noted in Rev Ch. 13...and before the wrath of God is poured out in verse 19 when the inhabitants of the earth are plunged into the winepress of the wrath of God.

So it appears very clearly to be a mid-trib, pre-wrath rapture. I cannot see any other interpretation of this passage.

How do you see this?

My reply, Re: Mid-Trib Rapture

> > Can anyone deny verses 14-16 of Rev. 14 detail the rapture??
> > Now this takes place after the midpoint of the week, which is clearly noted in Rev Ch. 13...and before the wrath of God is poured out in verse 19 when the inhabitants of the earth are plunged into the winepress of the wrath of God.
> > So it appears very clearly to be a mid-trib, pre-wrath rapture. I cannot see any other interpretation of this passage.
> > How do you see this?

There are two main Raptures. The first-trump Rapture is Pre-Trib. The two witnesses are caught up 3.5 days after Mid-Trib, but the "last trump" Rapture of all the Tribulation saints takes place after the Day of God's Wrath has begun, but before God's wrath is poured out.

I see the Rapture of Rev. 4:1 as the Pre-Trib Rapture (the first trump Rapture, I Thess. 4:16,17). I see the Rapture of Rev. 7:14 as the Pre-Wrath Rapture (the "last trump" Rapture, I Cor. 15:51,52) that takes place after the Day of God's Wrath has begun (compare Rev. 6:17 and 7:14).

Rapture two is the same Rapture spoken of in Rev 14:14-19, which is on the Day of God's Wrath. In Rev. 7, the 144,000 Israelites are mentioned.

They are also mentioned in Rev. 14:3-5. It says, "And they sung as it were a new song (also sung by the 1st Rapture saints in Rev. 5:9) before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

Rev. 14:14-19 says, "I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown (it is the day Jesus is crowned, the Day of the Lord, the day of the 2nd Rapture, the day of the Judgment Seat of Christ, and the Day of God's Wrath), and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and REAP (so the Coronation precedes the Pre-Wrath Rapture): for the time (the Day of God's Wrath) is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped (everyone that calls on the name of the Lord will be caught up). And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe (so it is the time of the vintage, the Feast of Trumpets). And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth (i.e., the unbelievers left on Earth), and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God." Agape

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