Pro and Con 1524

Posted 11-26-09

Happy Thanksgiving, it may be our last

Way over on the right of the first picture is the cross that should have burned, but didn't even get scorched

Incoming e-mail, Re: 7 Seals

Wondering what you think of the dating of the 7 seals explained here on this site?

My reply

> > Even Now In The Year 2006 We Are In The 4th Year Of The 37-Years Cycle Of The 7 Seals. "Important Note: When you count the number of years that are involved in the 7 Seals cycle. The number of years between 2003 and 2039 are 37 years not 36. You must also include the year 2003 to the count, which would give you 37 years not 36. The opening of the 7 Seals happens within a 37 years time frame and then Christ comes to defeat the anti-Christ in the 38th year in 2040.
> > The same is true in the 7 years of tribulation from 2033 to 2039. You must also include the year 2033 in the 7 years count. Although, between the opening of the 6th Seal in 2033 and the opening of the 7th Seal in 2039 is 6 years apart not 7."

I disagree. I think the whole Tribulation will take place within the 7-year 70th week of Daniel 9:27. The first seal won't open until the saints are in Heaven, and we are still on Earth. Jesus is given the seven-sealed Title Deed of the Earth AFTER we are in Heaven (Rev. 4:1). We will witness that, then we will sing the NEW SONG (Rev. 5:9) before the first seal is broken (Rev. 6:1,2).

Rev 4:1 says, "After this (the 7 churches on earth) I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven (Rev. 3:8): and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet (the trumpet of God, I Thess. 4:16,17) talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER (the church saints go up the Rapture), and I will shew thee things which must be HEREAFTER" (after the Rapture).

Right after the Rapture, John and the other apostles and patriarchs of Israel are seen in heaven crowned and seated on thrones (Rev. 4:4).

Rev 5:8,9 says, "...saints. And they (the saints in Heaven, including you and me) sung a NEW SONG (new after the Rapture), saying, Thou (Jesus) art worthy to take the book (the Title Deed of the Earth), and to open the SEALS thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation".

After that, Rev 6:1,2 says, "And I saw when THE LAMB OPENED ONE OF THE SEALS), and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he (the Pope) that sat on him had a bow (toxon, simple fabric, cloth, i.e., he is a man of the cloth, a religious leader); and A CROWN WAS GIVEN UNTO HIM (he didn't go in the Rapture, because the 7-sealed book wasn't given to Christ until after the Rapture): and he went forth conquering, and to conquer" (during the Tribulation).

We won't be on Earth then. Agape

My reply to an incoming email (omitted because of length)

Re: the day of the Second Advent

> > Feast of Atonement, Sept. 23, 2015, which has so MANY things pointing to it as the day of the literal 2nd Coming of Christ.

...please don't close your ears to what people are saying to you. Keep searching to find out what the Scriptures indicate. None of us knows it all. Jesus fortold all things. In Mark 13:23, he said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things." All the clues we need are hidden in Scripture. We can understand more as the time approaches. We live in the time of the end. We need to be alert.

Daniel 12:9,10 says, "Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but THE WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND."

I need you to tell me the reasons you think the Second Advent will be on Tishri 10, the Day of Atonement, something besides the day count from Oct. 29, 2009 to the Day of Atonement in 2015, I already know that, and take it into consideration. I also have a day count, 2300 literal days from last Pentecost, May 29, 2009, to the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015. I think that day will be the Day of God's Wrath.

Let's reason together, keep pouring information into our minds until some of these things start to come to pass. We want desperately to be one of the wise that understand, even if it comes in a flash at the last minute.

The Day of Atonement is the day the Jews are to announce that the coming Sacred Year that starts the following Nisan 1 will be the Jubilee Year.

I expect the Second Advent on Nisan 1, the first day of the Sacred Year and Jubilee Year, April 9, 2016. That is just 7 months (Eze 39:12) from Tishri 1, 2015, the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of God's Wrath. Broadly speaking, it is also 7 months from the Day of Atonement of Sept 23, 2015 (Tishri 10, 5776) that you are talking about. I think Sept 23, 2015 will be the day they announce the coming Jubilee. The 7 months are (1) Tishri, (2) Cheshvan, (3) Kislev, (4) Teveth, (5) Shevat, (6) Adar, and (7) Adar II.

The reason there are 1290 days in Daniel 12:11 instead of 1260 is because there is another month, Adar II in that particular year. 5776 is a leap year. The leap years are 5774, 5776 and 5779.

This additional 30 days seems to be the key that locks the endtime events into place. In leap years, there is a thirteenth month, Adar II. Adar can have 29 or 30 days, but Adar II always has 29 days. Therefore, Dan 12:11's extra 30 days takes us to Nisan 1, in my view, the very day of the Second Advent.

Concerning the Jubilee, Lev 25:8-10 says, "And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee FORTY AND NINE YEARS. Then (in the 49th year) shalt thou cause the trumpet of the JUBILE to sound on the tenth day of the SEVENTH MONTH (the 7th month of the 49th year), in the day of atonement (10th day of the 7th month, probably Sept. 23, 2015) shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. And ye shall hallow the FIFTIETH YEAR (that starts the following Nisan 1, April 9, 2016), and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it (the 50th year) shall be a JUBILE unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession (as Daniel will do in 2016), and ye shall return every man unto his family."

I think that all saints will return with Christ at the Second Advent, Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, the first day of the Jubilee Year. Tell me how it can be otherwise. I'm open to suggestion.

The Judgment of the Nations, i.e., judgment of the sheep and goats, will probably take place on Nisan 1, 5776. Then, Daniel will stand in his own possession of land in Israel on the 1335th day from Mid-Trib. Dan. 12:13 says, "But go thou thy way till THE END be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot (goral, portion, i.e., plot of land) at the end of the days." At that point, the battle of Armageddon will be over. It is Satan and his forces against Christ and his forces, so it can't take place until Christ and his forces arrive on Earth.

Mt 25:31-34 says, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his SHEEP from the GOATS: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world".

No year starts on the 10th day of the 7th month. The Sacred Year starts on Nisan 1, the first day of the first month. We should make no mistake about which is the first month. Est 3:7 spells it out. It says, "IN THE FIRST MONTH, THAT IS, THE MONTH OF NISAN, in the twelfth year of king Ahasuerus, they cast Pur, that is, the lot, before Haman from day to day, and from month to month, to THE TWELFTH MONTH, THAT IS, THE MONTH ADAR."

The reign of kings was figured from Nisan 1, NO MATTER WHEN THEY ACTUALLY BEGAN TO REIGN. Why? because the King of kings would be given his Kingdom and his Bride on Tishri 1, but would not return to the Earth until the following Nisan 1.

On Tishri 1, many things will take place in Heaven. The Last-Trump Rapture will bring up the 144,000 Israelites, plus a great multitude of Tribulation saints. The Coronation of Christ, the Judgment Seat of Christ, and the Marriage of the Lamb will take place.

In Ex 12:2, the Lord said, "This month (Nisan) shall be unto you the BEGINNING OF MONTHS: it shall be THE FIRST MONTH OF THE YEAR to you." Thus, Nisan 1 became THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR. It has never been recinded.

We are to apply this knowledge in interpreting other scriptures such as Eze 40:1. It says, "In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR (Nisan 1), in the tenth day of the month (Nisan 10), in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day (Nisan 10) the hand of the LORD was upon me, and brought me thither."

De 11:12 says, "A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR (Nisan 1) even unto the end of the year". The end of the year could be Adar 29, Adar 30, or Adar II 29.

Num 9:5 says, "And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month" (Nisan 14).

Nu 29:1 says, "And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month (Tishri 1), ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you."

Ex 12:18 says, "In the first month (Nisan), on the fourteenth day of the month (Nisan 14) at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month (Nisan 21) at even." Jer 28:1 says, "And it came to pass the same year, in THE BEGINNING OF THE REIGN OF ZEDEKIAH king of Judah (his reign started to be counted Nisan 1), in the fourth year, and in the fifth month" (Av). The 5 months are Nisan, Iyar, Sivan, Tamuz and Av.

Est 3:7 In the FIRST MONTH, that is, the month NISAN, in the twelfth year of king Ahasuerus, they cast Pur, that is, the lot, before Haman from day to day, and from month to month, to the TWELFTH MONTH, that is, the month ADAR." What could be clearer than that? The first and last months are named.

The months of the year are (1) Nisan, (2) Iyar, (3) Sivan, (4) Tamuz, (5) Av, (6) Elul, (7) Tishri, (8) Cheshvan, (9) Kislev, (10) Teveth, (11) Shevat, (12) Adar. In Leap Years, there is a 13th month, Adar II.

Ex 40:2 says, "On the first day of the first month (Nisan 1) shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation."

Zedekiah began his reign on Nisan 1. The Tabernacle was set up on Nisan 1. The latter rain starts on Nisan 1.

Jesus is to come as the former and latter rain. The former rain comes on Tishri 1 and the latter rain comes on Nisan 1.

De 28:12 says, "The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give THE RAIN UNTO THY LAND IN HIS SEASON" (Jesus' has two seasons for his coming, Tishri 1 and Nisan 1).

Joel 2:23 says, "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the FORMER RAIN moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the FORMER RAIN, and the LATTER RAIN in the first month." Tishri 1, when the former rain begins, is the first month of the Civil Year. Nisan 1, when the latter rain begins, is the first month of the Sacred Year.

The former rain starts Tishri 1, and the latter rain starts Nisan 1. Jesus was born on Tishri 1 and will come at the Second Advent on Nisan 1.


Eze 34:26 says, "I will cause the shower to come down in HIS SEASON".

Hosea 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, AS THE LATTER AND FORMER RAIN UNTO THE EARTH."

Joel 2:23 says, "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month" (Tishri 1 and Nisan 1).

Eze 29:17 sets the day as Nisan 1. It says, "And it came to pass in the seven and twentieth year, in the first month, in the first day of the month (Nisan 1), the WORD of the LORD came unto me"...

Then verse 21 says, "In that day (Nisan 1) will I cause the horn (King) of the house of Israel (Jesus) to bud forth (i.e., at the Second Advent), and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (the Word) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."

I expect Jesus to return on Nisan 1. Don't you?

Jer 5:24 says, "Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in HIS SEASON: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest."

If we are the olive harvest, it ends at Hanukkah. We are to get out of here as in the days of Noah, and the Ark floated free of the ground by the 40th day. Forty days is a block of time, therefore, we are to figure it using Inclusive Reckoning, where the first day is day number 1. To figure that on charts on the Internet, we can add 39 days, and end up with the right answer. Cheshvan 17, 5770 (Nov 4, 2009) + 39 days = Kislev 26, SUNDAY, DEC 13, 2009. That is during Hanukkah, the Feast of Dedication (of the Temple). And, we are the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

Rev. 1:10,11 shows that the Rapture will be on SUNDAY, the Lord's day. The second Rapture will be on the Day of the Lord, the Day of God's Wrath, Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets (Joel 1:14,15; 2:1-3), probably Monday, Sept. 14, 2015.

There are to be 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent. Eze. 38:18-20 tells us about the Day of God's Wrath. There is the worldwide earthquake when the asteroids of Rev. 8:8-11 impact Earth. The mountain-sized one will hit the Mediterranean Sea. No wonder the fish will shake.

Then Eze. 39:12,13 tells us about the 7 months. It says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (at the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."

This means that the year of the Day of God's Wrath will be a Leap Year with Adar II. Otherwise, there would be 6 months between Tishri 1 and the following Nisan 1. The year 5776 is a Leap Year with Adar II. 5777 is not a leap year. Neither is 5778. The leap years are 5774, 5776, 5779.

Therefore, I think the Day of God's Wrath will be on Tishri 1, 5776 (Sept. 14, 2015), and the day of the Second Advent will be the following Nisan 1, April 9, 2016. Can you prove otherwise by Scripture? You said there were "MANY things". What are they? Give me a list of scriptures. I will look every one of them up. I want to understand your position. I already understand your day count. That's interesting, but you need more than that. You need scriptures to back you up.

We are not far apart in what we believe. I think the 70th week of Daniel could have started Oct. 21, 2008, and the 2300-day Tribulation on Pentecost, May 29, 2009, the anniversary of Pentecost in 30 AD and our daughter's birthday. Jesus was crucified on April 6, 30 AD, our son David's birthday. I'm hoping for the Rapture on Dec. 13, 2009, my 81st birthday. Agape

His reply

Thank you for your reply. I just want to mention one thing. Because of the Scriptures in Haggai that refer to the 24th of Kislev, and the parallel between this battle in Haggai and the Battle of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38 and 39, I believe the 24th of Kislev is a very good possibility to be the time of the Sudden Destruction/Rapture. It is just that I believe that it will be NEXT year, not this year. That would be Dec. 1, 2010. That would be my #1 choice to be the most likely date of the Rapture. Maranatha!

My reply

There is another tie in for a Hanukkah Rapture. In John 4:35, Jesus said, "Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest." The four months following Kislev would be Teveth, Shevat, Adar and Nisan. The first harvest is barley, and it starts at Firstfruits in Nisan.

June 5, 1967, when the Six-Day War started, plus one generation (48.33 years, Mt. 1:17) is 2015.33. A third of a year is 4 months.

The Six-Day War started in Iyar. Adding 4 months (Sivan, Tamuz, Av and Elul) brings us to the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5776. I think that Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015, will be the Day of God's Wrath.

Since there are 7 months in the last year between Tishri 1, Day of God's Wrath, and Nisan 1, Second Advent, that year has to be a leap year. 5776 is a leap year. 5777 is not.

Sept. 14, 2015 less 2300 days was last Pentecost, May 29, 2009. I think we entered the Tribulation then, even though we entered the 70th week of Daniel in the previous October.

We are not to endure much of the Tribulation. Rev. 2:10 (KJV) says, "ye shall have tribulation ten days."

Hemera, translated days, is not always limited to a 24-hour day. It can mean a period of time. Strong's says, "Feminine (with G5610 implied) of a derivative of ???µa? he¯mai (to sit; akin to the base of G1476) meaning tame, that is, gentle; day, that is, (literally) the time space between dawn and dark, or the whole 24 hours (but several days were usually reckoned by the Jews as inclusive of the parts of both extremes); figuratively a period (always defined more or less clearly by the context): - age, + alway, (mid-) day (by day, [-ly]), + for ever, judgment, (day) time, while, years.

The implied word is hora, Apparently a primary word; an "hour" (literally or figuratively): - day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.

Surely it means a short time. It seems to me that Hanukkah 2009 has a better chance than Hanukkah 2010....Maranatha. Agape

His reply

Thank you for your reply. I just want to mention one thing. Because of the Scriptures in Haggai that refer to the 24th of Kislev, and the parallel between this battle in Haggai and the Battle of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38 and 39, I believe the 24th of Kislev is a very good possibility to be the time of the Sudden Destruction/Rapture. It is just that I believe that it will be NEXT year, not this year. That would be Dec. 1, 2010. That would be my #1 choice to be the most likely date of the Rapture. Maranatha!

My reply


2010 + 5 = 2015. On 2015 for the end of the shortened Tribulation, we can agree.

On the Feast of Trumpets, that Jewish year will be 5776. If it is to be the year of the 2nd Advent, it will probably be a Jubilee Year. The year before the Jubilee must be the 49th year, which must be a Sabbatic Year, and 5775 is a Sabbatic Year. It divides by 7 evenly.

June 5, 1967 + 48.33 (a generation, Mt. 1:17) = June 5, 2015.

June 5, 1967 = 26th of Iyar, 5727. That plus 4 months (a 3rd of a year), Sivan, Tamuz, Av and Elul, and we come to Tishri 1, 5776 (Sept. 14, 2015), the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of God's Wrath (Joel 2:1-3), the day Israel will blow the alarm on the trumpets and the Lord will fight for Israel.

Do we agree on this?

Rev 6:12-17 describes that day. It says, "I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was A GREAT EARTHQUAKE; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair (the Solar eclipse of Sept. 13, 2015 will be after 6 PM, so it will mark Tishri 1, 5776), and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great DAY OF HIS WRATH (Tishri 1, 5776, Sept. 14, 2015) is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

This day will be followed 15 days later by the last Lunar eclipse of the last tetrad of blood moons that fall on feast days in this century. They occur on Firstfruits, Tabernacles, Unleavened Bread, Tabernacles in 2014 and 2015.

2014 Apr 15 Total (Nisan 16, 5774) FEAST OF FIRSTFRUITS
2014 Oct 8 Total (Tishri 15, 5775) FEAST OF TABERNACLES
2015 Apr 4 Total (Nisan 15, 5775) FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD
2015 Sep 28 Total (Tishri 15, 5776) FEAST OF TABERNACLES

2015 - 7 = 2008, the beginning of the Tribulation

Are we in agreement this far?

If so, our difference is whether the Rapture will be in 2009 of 2010.

I say SUNDAY, Dec. 13, 2009 (Kislev 25, 5770) seems likely. You say Wed. Dec. 1, 2010.

In the Preview of the First-Trump Rapture in Rev. 1:9, John became in the spirit on the Lord's Day, SUNDAY. The Last-Trump Rapture will take place on the Day of the Lord that is also the Day of God's Wrath. It will probably be on Monday, Tishri 1, 5776, Sept. 14, 2015.


Jesus is called the Sun of Righteousness in Mal. 4:2. This year was MARKED as special by the BLESSING OF THE SUN on Wed, April 8, 2009, Nisan 14, 5769, Passover. It was the last time the every-28th-year event would fall on Passover.

You say Wed., Dec. 1, 2010 (Kislev 24, 5771 seems likely for the Rapture. Your reason is because Joseph revealed himself to his brothers in the 2nd year of the 7 years of famine.

If the 70th week of Daniel started in October, 2008 (5769) we would have entered the SECOND YEAR in October, 2009 (5770). Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Someone DID read the entire House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009

From Michael Connelly - Retired attorney, Constitutional Law Instructor, Carrollton , Texas

Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled.

However, as scary as all of that it, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people and the businesses they own. The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with. I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access by the appointees of the Obama administration of all of your personal healthcare information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide....

Barbara Frale, a Vatican researcher, claims to have discovered Christ's 'death certificate' on the Turin Shroud

By Nick Squires in Rome, 20 Nov 09

The historian and researcher at the secret Vatican archive said she has found the words "Jesus Nazarene" on the shroud, proving it was the linen cloth which was wrapped around Christ's body....

Dr Frale asserts in a new book, The Shroud of Jesus the Nazarene, that computer enhancement enabled her to detect the archaic script, which appears on various parts of the material....

Scholars first noticed that there was writing on the shroud in 1978...

She claimed she had been able to decipher a jumble of phrases written in three languages, including the Greek words (I)esou(s) Nnazarennos, or Jesus the Nazarene, and (T)iber(iou), which she interprets as Tiberius, the Roman emperor...

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