Pro and Con 154, Uploaded 7-17-98

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God, the Date-Setter: from Jim Bramlett
God is the "date-setter," not man! As He wills and leads, we may be "date-discoverers." And no doubt, He has revealed certain future dates in His Word. How many, we do not know. Probably more than we realize. But consider this:

The latest Internet PropheZine newsletter (# 61) quotes a chapter from Grant R. Jeffrey's book, "The Signature of God," showing where God revealed more than 2,500 years ago that modern Israel would be reborn in A.D. 1948. I have been aware of this for 4-5 years, and it always amazes me. (This seems to completely blow away the unbiblical and untenable position of "replacement theology" embraced by some that the Church totally replaced Israel and that since Christ, national Israel has no relevance in God's plan.)

Brief explanation: God foretold 430 years of punishment in Ezekiel 4 (commentaries admit they cannot explain this passage, apparently a mystery until "unsealed" by the Holy Spirit in these last days). It started, Jeffrey says, at the beginning of the Babylonian captivity in 606 B.C. The 70-year exile prophesied by Jeremiah ended in 536 B.C., leaving 360 years of punishment remaining. Applying the "seven times more" (7 X 360) of a parallel passage in Leviticus (26:18,21,24,28) = 2,520 more years. Converting 2,520 solar years to 360-day prophetic years (2483.8) from 536 B.C., compensating for the no-zero year between 1 B.C. and A.D. 1 takes you to -- yes, exactly 1948, the year of Israel's birth (to the day some claim)!

Thus, we amazingly have 1948. However, I have been aware of another way to figure this that gives an equally astounding result. Ezekiel 4 actually seems to say to begin counting the 430 years at the "seige" of Jerusalem, not at the exile. This seige is believed by some to have been in 587 B.C., which - 70 = 517 B.C., from which 2,520 prophetic years takes you to 1967, the year Jerusalem was recaptured by the Jews (to the day some claim)! >From "seige" in 587 B.C. to "recapture" in A.D. 1967 -- prophesied in God's Word!

There is even a third way of counting. The "times of the Gentiles" may have begun in 606 B.C. and might extend for 2,520 years, based on God's promise to punish Israel seven times, with "times" meaning 360 years (7 X 360 = 2,520), and/or based on Nebuchadnezzar's madness for 2,520 days (symbolizing the "madness" of Gentile history). If true, 606 B.C. + 2,520 biblical years = 1878. Actually, in an earlier book, Grant R. Jeffrey had written that 1878 did, indeed, signal the beginning of the end of the Gentile Age and the beginning of a 120-year countdown.

Why might 1878 be significant? Most probably know the story. That was the year the sick, unconscious, 48-year-old Amish minister named "Noah" Troyer repeatedly stood and prophesied that as God had given the biblical Noah a 120-year warning of impending destruction, God was saying to him, also "Noah," that He was giving America only 120 years to repent before it would be destroyed. This was carefully documented. Oddly, as someone previously pointed out, this "Noah" had begun his 48th year when he got his 120-year warning, and the biblical Noah was age 480 when he got his, as we learn from Genesis 6 and 7. (If a true prophecy, it could be fulfilled either in 1998 or just afterward.)

After I heard the astonishing story about this Noah, I puzzled, and asked myself, "Could we really now be in such a 120-year countdown? If so, when did the countdown really begin?" Then I remembered that Israel is "God's time clock." Israel is the key to biblical prophecy. I wondered, "Could there have been some significant historical event about Israel in 1878 that might confirm such a countdown beginning in that specific year?" Then I remembered a certain book on my shelf that lists all significant historical/biblical events, by exact year, since recorded history began. I almost ran, grabbed the book and anxiously flipped to 1878, curious if there would be any entry at all. To my shock, it read: "1878 -- Establishment of Petah Tikvah in Judea and Rosh Pinnah in Galilee. These were the first Jewish villages in Palestine in our times."

This was the planting of modern Israel -- the "fig tree" of Luke 21:29 -- God's time clock, in 1878! (And 1878 + 70 = 1948!)

I am not sure which of the above three ways is the proper one God intended. I suspect He has arranged it all as significant, since all three calculations take us to prophetically significant dates. Also, ancient dating is often accurate to plus or minus one year, and counting may vary with month/day started and ended. Nevertheless, arriving at 1878, 1948 and 1967 seems mind-boggling. And that God would would allow our puny minds to see it is even more mind-boggling!

There seems no doubt that Israel is the "fig tree." However, the fig tree did not start to sprout, or "put forth its leaves" into Gaza, the Golan Heights, etc., until 1967, and "this generation" (the one that sees the fig tree sprout) will not pass away until all be fulfilled (Luke 21:32). IF a generation of 40 years is meant, we must remember that Jesus did NOT say a full generation will transpire as we tend to think. He only said that the fulfillment will be BEFORE the generation transpires. That could be sometime before 1967 + 40, or 2007. It may be only one day before, or longer. Whichever, we are extremely close. Surely, He is at the door, and the "blessed hope," the appearing of our great God and Savior, is extremely near! Maranatha, Jim

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I thank the lord that you have continued the fight. Yours is a wedsite that I visit every day looking for new pro/cons. I do however have a couple of questions. I agree that a generation is forty years. If Israel grew leaves (captured Jerusalem) in 1967 this would say that the generation would end in forty years. Correct? Well here goes If the Jewish calendar is 360 days (prophetic) would Jesus return in 2006 not 2007?....

My reply

I am not convinced that we are to always go by the so-called prophetic year of 360 days. I realize that 1260 days divided by 42 months equals 30, but that is an average, not necessarily the length of each month of the 42. When talking of our months, we average them out to 30 days too. We talk of 30-day, 60-day and 90-day programs, and yet we know that our year is really about 365 days, not 360.

The sun and moon were to regulate the calendar. Gen. 1:14 says, "Let there be lights in the firmament (expanse) of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years." The Bible is consistent.

The count of actual time periods on the Jewish calendar during the Tribulation (42 months; 1260 days; time, times, and half a time), come out just as stated in Scripture in spite of there not being one single year in the Jewish calendar that has 360 days. They have 353 (Deficient), 354 (Normal), 355 (Full), 383 (Def. Leap), 384 (Nor. Leap), and 385 (Full Leap).

The 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 fits right on the Jewish calendar too. From the Feast of Weeks that begins the Seventieth Week of Daniel to the Feast of Trumpets when the Millennium begins is 2300 days, by Jewish inclusive reckoning. It doesn't work out in just any set of years, either. It serves to drop the prophecy into its proper time slot.

In figuring the 483 years in Daniel's prophecy to the time after which Messiah was to be cut off, I found that it works out right using normal years too.

I don't think Jesus will return on the first day of the Millennium, Tishri 1, 5768 (our Sept. 13, 2007). That is a day of catastrophe and "thick darkness" (Joel 2:1-2). It is the day Israel is attacked and God's fury comes up in his face (Ezek. 38:18). And "all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (translated "sight" in Ezek. 36:31), and the mountains (i.e., asteroids, Rev. 8:8,10) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall...I will rain upon him (Gog), and upon his bands...fire and brimstone. Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself: and I will be known in the EYES of many nations (the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30), and they shall know that I am the LORD" (Ezek. 38:20-23).

Zech. 14:5-7 shows that the day of his return is not dark. It says, "the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light."

The Lord "shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth" (Hosea 6:3). He came as the former rain (Tishri 1) the first time and will return as the latter rain (Nisan 1) the second time.

Ezek. 29:17 sets the day, "first month, in the first day," which from Ezek 45:18,21 is Nisan 1. Then Ezek. 29:21 says, "In that day will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (Logos, Word) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."

There are seven Jewish months between Tishri 1 and the following Nisan 1 in 5768 because it is a leap year. Thus, we find that the Jews bury the dead for "seven months...and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD" (Ezek. 39:12).

In 2008, Nisan 1 falls on our Apr. 6, the anniversary of the Crucifixion on our calendar. It is the first day of the Jewish regnal year. I think he will officially take office on the same day the other Israelite kings officially took office....

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...I have continued to read your site, to work, watch and wait while you continue to bless and encourage us; your site is still the most interesting one on internet.

I pray for you Marilyn and I thank you for being so open and communicative and letting us reach you in this wonderful way, this new technology is great, we would never have imagined it back in the 50's. Love you.

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---- wrote: The following is taken from Everett Vasek's website.
Is a generation 14,000 days long?
People have offered different Ideas for the length of a generation; such as 40 years, or 70 years, but the most interesting length of a generation I've yet seen is given by John Zachary, in his book "Threshold of Eternity". He believes that a biblical generation is equal to 14,000 days, or about 38 years and 4 months. Zachary determined this number by using a perpetual calendar to add up the number of days between two events mentioned in the Bible. The first event that he started counting from is the day of Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem, "Palm Sunday", April 6, 32 A.D. The same day foretold by the prophet Daniel.

On that Sunday, just days before he was crucified for us, Jesus said; this very generation would witness the horrible destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple because they did not recognize the day of their visitation. Zachary stopped his count on the very day that the city and the Temple were destroyed by the Roman legions under Titus Vespasian on August 5, 70 A.D. There were exactly 14,000 days between these two events, thereby marking the exact length of the generation that Jesus prophesied about.

The destruction of the Temple in the generation of Jesus

Josephus, the historian, was an eye witness to the destruction of Jerusalem and one of the stories he relates is indicative of the accuracy of Jesus' prediction of the total destruction of the Temple. Jesus said that the destruction of the Temple would be so complete that:

"not one stone will be left on another". Luke 21:6

Josephus recorded that the wife of Titus had a dream about the Temple of God and warned Titus not to harm the Temple in any way. So Titus gave strict orders to his army not to do any harm to the Temple. Besides all this, the Temple was renowned throughout the ancient world for its beauty. When the Romans finally broke through the city walls, They did keep away from the Temple. However, as one Jewish man was fleeing a soldier, he ran into the Temple for refuge and the soldier threw in a torch after him. That torch caught the Temple on fire and it was completely burned, but the stones still stood. When the Temple was built, the builders covered many of the walls with gold. It also contained many gold cups and other religious articles worth a great amount of money. When the Temple burned, the gold melted and flowed between the foundation stones. Later to get to this gold, the Romans tore down the temple and used great pry bars to wrench apart the foundation stones, thus not leaving one stone upon another, Just as Jesus said.

The Romans were so angry at the Jews constant rebellions that Josephus records that they eventually leveled the whole city:

"Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the whole city and temple, except the three towers Phaselus, Hippicus, and Mariamne, and a part of the western wall; but all the rest was laid so completely even with the ground, by those who dug it up from the foundation, that there was nothing left to make those who came thither believe that it had ever been inhabited." Josephus

Remember, Jesus made the prediction recorded in Matthew 23 on April 6, 32 A.D. Exactly 14,000 days (one generation) later, to the very day, His words were fulfilled.

The Generation of moses traced near 14,000 days (38 years)

God worked many great miracles to free the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, and He wanted the Jews to immediately go up and possess the promised land. God told them they would have to fight the inhabitants of the land, but God also promised to fight against the inhabitants just like He fought against the Egyptians. However the fighting men, age twenty and up, refused to trust God, and His promise to fight for them. Therefore, God became angry at their distrust and He swore; that generation would not enter the promised land.

"Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land which I swore to give unto your fathers." Deuteronomy 1:35

Bible researchers have not yet found the exact dates that this generation began and ended; however, there is enough information given to let us know that it could have been 14,000 days long.

"And the Lord said to Moses 'Now get up and cross the Zered Valley So we crossed the valley. It had been thirty-eight years since we left Kadesh Barnea until we crossed the Zered Valley. By then, that entire generation of fighting men had died. This is what the Lord promised would happen. Now the last of those fighting men had died." Deuteronomy 2:14

Therefore, that generation had died in approximately the expected time frame of 14,000 days which equals 38 years and 4 months.

The next verse says:
Then the Lord said to Moses, "Today you must go by Ar on the border of Moab."

The same day that the last man of that rebellious generation died, God told them to cross the border of Moab. That day they took the first steps out of the desert that they had entered almost forty years earlier.

Clearly this appears to be one of those special days, that marked the end of a generation. More study on this period is needed. I hope that one day we will have enough information to pin point the exact number of days, in order to show whether or not it is equal to 14,000.

Can we apply the 14,000 day theory to our generation?

Now we have seen that the generation of Moses was approximately 14,000 days long, and the generation of Jesus was exactly 14,000 days long. What, if any thing, does that mean for the last days generation?

For a long time many christian teachers said that the last days generation began when Israel became a nation again in 1948; however, some are now accepting the possibility that the last days generation began when Israel again ruled Jerusalem after about 2000 years of gentile rule. The time that fits the prophesy of Jesus more accurately is clearly when Jews once again ruled Jerusalem on June 7, 1967.

Jesus said:
...And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:24

Rosh Hashanah: 1998 - 2005

Now back to considering the Last days generation. After John Zachary, determined that a generations length might be 14,000 days, he added that number of days to June 7, 1967, the day Israel again controlled Jerusalem. What he discovered seems truly amazing. The 14,000th day lands on Tuesday October 4th, 2005. This day is Rosh Hashanah for the year 2005. I sincerely believe that it is not just a coincidence that the 14,000th day is Rosh Hashanah. From our studies, we believe that Jesus will return on a Rosh Hashanah in the future, we just don't know absolutely for sure which year it will be. Now, there may be reason to believe that the year of our "blessed hope" might be 2005.

Almost 2000 years ago, Jesus said that Jerusalem would be conquered, and the Temple would be destroyed. However, Jesus also said that one day the times of the gentiles would be over, and the Jews would again rule Jerusalem, and the generation that witnesses the return of Jewish rule would be the same generation that would witness the fulfillment of all the scriptures, even those about the seven years of tribulation.

"Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. Men will faint from terror, at what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory... "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." Luke 21:29-33

Since we see that this last days generation will see the horrors of the seven year tribulation, and most bible teachers believe that the actively watching and praying church will be taken by Christ to heaven before the tribulation, could it be that the rapture will take place seven years earlier than October 4th, 2005.

If you subtract 2,520 days, which equals seven years, from October 4, 2005 you come to November 10, 1998. This date did not seem significant to me until I counted the number of days it occurs after Rosh Hashanah occurs in that year. November 10, 1998 comes exactly 50 days after Rosh Hashanah, which falls on September 21 in 1998. This may not be significant, but remember that after Jesus rose from the dead, He spent 40 days appearing to His diciples and then on the 50th day the Holy Spirit came upon the diciples on the feast of Pentecost (Pentecost means to count 50 days). Fifty is one of those special numbers that is often repeated in the Bible.

The reverse of this is also true. If you count 50 days back from Rosh Hashanah, you come to a day on the Jewish calendar that is very significant. It is the 9th day of the month of Av on the Jewish calendar. On this day, many Jews fast because the Babylonians destroyed the first Temple in 586 B.C. Also on this day, 656 years later, in 70 A.D., the Romans destroyed the second Temple (even though they tried to spare the Temple). This day, the 9th of Av, is not mentioned in the Bible as a special day, but it apparently has a great significance in God's plan. We can be sure of that this is not a mere coincidence that the first and second Temple were destroyed on the same day, because there are no coincidences with God.

My reply

This is interesting, but it seems to me that it is a house of cards built on the wrong date for the Crucifixion. Sir Robert Anderson worked out an elaborate scheme and said that Daniel's prophecy placed the Crucifixion in 32 AD. I don't think that is correct. I think the Crucifixion was in 30 AD, and that the 40 years appointed for "the iniquity of the house of Judah" in Ezek. 4:6,7, ended in 70 AD, when Jerusalem was destroyed. That happened to the 40-year generation counted from 30 AD.

In Dan. 9:24-26, the 483 years, after which the Messiah was to be "cut off" (karath, killed) began with "the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem." The Lord said, "Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built: and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid...he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives" (Isa, 44.28; 45:13).

Josephus recorded that Cyrus gave permission to rebuild Jerusalem. He wrote, "In the first year of the reign of Cyrus, which was the 70th from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon...he gave them leave to go back to their own country, and to rebuild their city Jerusalem, and the temple of God" (Book XI, Ch. 1.1).

Ezra 1:1,2 also shows that this commandment was given in the first year of Cyrus. That was AH 3589, counted from the creation of Adam. It was BC 454. (Martin Anstey found an 82-year mistake in Ptolemy's chronology; Romance of Bible Chronology, Vol. 1, p. 278-293). BC 454 + 483 = 30 AD. (When figuring, we have to remember that there was no zero year between BC 1 and 1 AD, so 483 - 454 = 29 + 1 = 30.)

According the Jewish inclusive reckoning, the 483rd year was AH 4071 (29 AD). Since Messiah was to be killed "after" the 483 years, 30 AD fits. The Crucifixion could not have been earlier than 30 AD for the power of capital punishment was taken away from the Jews themselves 40 years before the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. If Christ had been tried by them before 30 AD, they could have put him to death themselves.

30 AD not only fits Daniel's and Ezekiel's prophecies, but fits the time indicators we have for the life of our Saviour. Herod's temple was begun in 4024 AH (BC 20/19). Jesus was, I believe, born on Tishri 1, 4039 AH (BC 5). He was near two when the wise men visited him in a house in BC 3. That is why Herod had the baby boys 2 and under killed. Herod died before the eclipse of the moon on Jan. 10, BC 1.

Tiberius Caesar began to reign as Co-Rex with Augustus in AH 4054 (Jan. 16, 12 AD). Augustus concerned himself with other parts of the empire, leaving Tiberius to rule as practically the sole monarch over Syria and Palestine from then on. He became Sole-Rex in 14 AD. By Jewish inclusive reckoning, his 15th year of rule was AH 4068 (26 AD), when Jesus was baptized by John "in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar" (Lu. 3:1).

The four Passovers of Jesus' ministry were in 27, 28, 29 and 30 AD. The unnamed feast in John 5:1 had to be a Passover for when Jesus was in Samaria, he said, "There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest." Harvest begins on the Feast of Firstfruits.

The temple was 46 years in building at the first Passover in 27 AD. I think Jesus was crucified on Thursday, April 6, 30 AD (AH 4072) and resurrected on Sunday. Jewish nights precede the daylight. Therefore, the "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Mt. 12:40) were Thursday (day), Friday (night then day), Saturday (night then day), and Sunday (night). Sunday was "the third day SINCE these things were done" (John 2:19).

> Can we apply the 14,000 day theory to our generation?

I don't think we can. I think that since Jesus told the Pharisees in 30 AD, "Verily I say unto you, All these shall come upon this generation" (Mt. 23:29,36), and Jerusalem was burned in 70 AD, we must consider 40 years a generation. It fits the 40 years in Ezek 4:6,7. It fits that the power of capital punishment was taken from the Jews 40 years before Jerusalem was burned. John 18:21 says, "It is not lawful for us to put any man to death." It fits Amos 2:10: "I brought you up from the land of Egypt, and led you forty years through the wilderness, to possess the land of the Amorite."

> What, if any thing, does that mean for the last days generation?

I feel that the 14,000-day generation is wrong, so it has no last days application. I think we must use the 40-year generation. It runs from when the fig tree (Israel; Joel 1:6,7; Hos. 9:10; Ezek 36:8) "putteth forth leaves" (Mt. 24:32) in the Six-Day War of 1967. That was 5727 on the Jewish calendar. 5727 + 40 = 5767. The last day of 5767 (our Sept. 12, 2007) should be the end of this age. I think the millennial Day of the Lord begins the next day on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007).

Some people think that "this generation" of Mt. 24:34 could mean that the Jewish race would "not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." The Jewish race will not pass away even during the Millennium. That would not be a very definitive end-of-the-age prophecy. God's prophecies are more precise.

Since the destruction of Jerusalem came upon "this generation" of Mt. 23:36 in 70 AD, and the things mentioned before the fig tree parable of Mt. 24 have not yet come to pass, I think the "This generation" of Mt. 24:34 has to be counted from the time we saw the modern Israel grow leaves. The Six-Day War began June 5 and summer began June 21. That "summer is nigh" of Mt. 24:32 is precise, and it fits the facts of history.

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 7-17-98