Pro and Con 1590

Posted 2-3-2011

Asteroid impact caused huge scar on Jupiter (near bottom of pictures) A massive scar that appeared in Jupiter's atmosphere...(July 19, 2009) was caused by an asteroid 'the size of the Titanic', says NASA.

Fantastic pictures of rare birds

The Kakapo parrot, one of just 124
A red-crowned crane, one of 1,500 left in the wild, catches lunch in its native China
An Asian Crested Ibis, now only found in Shaanxi province in China

Update on Ed

Thanks for your prayers in our behalf. We need them. May God bless you richly. We figure the enemy tried to kill all three of us, but the Lord did not allow it. We all three had pneumonia. Besides that, Dave had a ruptured appendix, and Ed had bowel and urinary tract infections he picked up at the hospital or at Rehab. I am glad that I ended up at a different hospital so I can take care of him.

Ed is sitting up on the side of the bed much better. He is gaining weight and slowly we can see improvement in strength. He still can't stand up, but any improvment is great. He is almost 87. His biggest problem now is itching on back, chest and arms. I'm going to change laundry detergent in case that could be causing it. It could be allergy, because Benadryl spray helps.

Doomsday asteroid on its way?

Easter Sunday asteroid on path toward Earth...

By Drew Zahn, Jan 31, 2011

Russian scientist Leonid Sokolov of St. Petersburg State University announced his calculations that the asteroid Apophis will pass within 18,000 miles of Earth, close enough to knock geosynchronous satellites out of the sky.

Villard warns, however, that when Apophis comes screaming by on Easter Sunday, April 13, 2036, there's no guarantee it won't stray from course and strike the planet.

Doomsday Asteroid video

Warming Causing Record Cold, Snow

By Jim Meyers, 02 Feb 2011

The record-setting snow and cold afflicting much of the nation in recent weeks doesn’t seem to jibe with Al Gore’s dire warnings about global warming. But Gore has an explanation for what’s causing the wintry conditions: global warming.

The former Vice President on Monday responded to Fox News Channel host Bill O’Reilly’s on-air question last week: “Why has southern New York turned into the tundra?” O’Reilly then said he needed to call Gore.

“I appreciate the question,” Gore wrote on his website.

“As it turns out, the scientific community has been addressing this particular question for some time now and they say that increased heavy snowfalls are completely consistent with what they have been predicting as a consequence of man-made global warming.”

Incoming e-mail, Re: This is an interesting prospect!

The logical deduction of 7000 years from the time of Noah seems too easy. Check out the You Tube web cast below.

My comments

That's Harold Camping's work. In "We are Almost There!," page 64, he wrote that the LAST DAY OF THE EARTH'S EXISTENCE WILL BE OCTOBER 21, 2011. I disagree.

Psa 37:29 says, "The righteous shall INHERIT THE EARTH AND LIVE ON IT FOREVER."

Psa 78:69 says, "And He built His sanctuary like high places, like THE EARTH HE HAS FOUNDED FOREVER."

Ecc 1:4 says, "A generation passes away, and another generation comes; but THE EARTH STANDS FOREVER."

Isa 60:21 says, "And your people shall all be righteous; THEY SHALL POSSESS THE EARTH FOREVER".

Here is some information about him: "The former civil engineer, who now runs Family Radio, has set the date (of the Rapture) for May 21, 2011. The 88-year-old has studied the Bible for nearly 70 years.

"Camping used his skills as an engineer to make his predictions. He has created a mathematical system to analyze hidden prophecies in the Bible. After a complex series of calculations, he came up with the date of the Rapture." (

At the URL you gave me, there are several videos by Harold Camping, a Lutheran sabbath keeping Christian, who says that the Rapture and Day of Judgment will be May 21, 2011, and that the world and even the universe will cease to exist on Oct. 21, 2011. He also says that the creation of Adam was in 11,013 B.C., and that time runs from 11,013 B.C. to 2011 A.D. Camping also says that Jesus was born in 7 B.C. and crucified in 33 A.D, which I disagree with. I think it was 5 BC and 30 AD.

The videos:
"The Holy Bible's May 21, 2011 Warning"
"The End of the World is May 21, 2011"
"The Day of the Lord, May 21, 2011"
"Judgment Day - Jesus is Coming on May 21, 2011"

The videos say that the Rapture, End of the World, Day of the Lord, and Judgment Day are supposed to be May 21, 2011, and the end of the entire universe is supposed to be Oct 21, 2011.

I don't think there will be an actual end of the world or universe. I think the Lord will refresh the world when it needs it.

The Hebrews are promised the world forever. We are promised eternal life. What is confusing is the KJV translation of aion as world. It means age, as in the LITV.

Mt 13:39 (KJV) says, "The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the WORLD (aion, age); and the reapers are the angels."

Mt 13:39 (LITV) says, "And the hostile one who sowed them is the Devil, and the harvest is the end of the AGE, and the angels are the reapers."

Camping also says that the Tribulation will be 23 years, instead of seven. I think it will be roughly 7 years, but the latter section, the Great Tribulation is to be shortened.

Things I found on the web site:

MAY 21, 2011...

"Seven thousand years after 4990 B.C. (the year of the Flood) is the year 2011 A.D. (our calendar).

"4990 + 2011 – 1 = 7,000...

"Amazingly, May 21, 2011 is the 17th day of the 2nd month of the Biblical calendar of our day. Remember, the flood waters also began on the 17th day of the 2nd month, in the year 4990 B.C....

"On the first day of the Day of Judgment (May 21, 2011) they will be caught up (raptured) into Heaven...

"Just before the flood Noah was instructed by God that in seven days the flood would begin (Genesis 7:10-16). Using the language of 2 Peter 3:8 that “a day is as a thousand years,” it is like saying through Noah, who was a preacher (2 Peter 2:5): “mankind has seven days or 7,000 years to escape destruction.” Since 2011 A.D. is precisely 7,000 years after Noah preached, God has given mankind a wonderful proof that Judgment Day will occur in the year 2011....

"We have learned that the precise date of the cross was April 1, 33 A.D. when coordinated with our present modern calendar. April 1, 33 A.D. is the only date that meets all the requirements of the Bible, such as being a Friday that falls on the correct date for the Passover, which was the date Christ was to be crucified....

"there are exactly 722,500 days from April 1, 33 A.D. until May 21, 2011. This fact gives us another infallible, absolute proof that May 21, 2011 is the date of the Rapture."...

As for me, I think the Crucifixion was on Thursday, Nisan 13, the preparation of the Passover, in 30 AD, not in 33 AD.

I also think the Flood was in 2387 BC, not 4990 BC. My Bible Chronology posted on this web site says, "1656 AH = 2387 BC The Flood after Methuselah died at 969 (Gen 7:27), when Noah was 600 (Gen 7:6)." Most Bible chronologists agree.

I think May 29, Ascension Day, has more going for it. We will see. The time will be here soon.

My reply to a post on Five Doves site

Re: Amy VanGerpen,"RE: Raul D - Burning Weapons"

> > I believe that Ezekiel 38 and 39 depict the opening and closing scenes of the Tribulation. Ezekiel 38-39:16 appears to cover one regional event, and Ezekiel 39:17, thru the end of the chapter, appears to cover a different event that is on a worldwide scale. I discuss this in detail, along with timing issues in this study:

I read your study.

However, I think the Gog and Magog war of Eze 38 is on the Day of the Lord that is also the Day of God's Wrath. On your web site, you quoted Eze 38:18-20. It is plain in those verses. I will capitalize key words in it to help us understand the finality of it.

> > Ezekiel 38:18-20 "And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel," says the Lord GOD, "that MY FURY will show in My face. For in My jealousy and IN THE FIRE OF MY WRATH I have spoken: 'Surely in that day there shall be a GREAT EARTHQUAKE in the land of Israel, so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and ALL MEN WHO ARE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH SHALL SHAKE AT MY PRESENCE. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL TO THE GROUND.'

Every wall worldwide will fall. Every building will fall. The cities of the nations will fall. It will be the end of civilization as we have known it. It will be the end of the Tribulation, not the beginning.

Rev 8:5 tells us about it, saying, "And the angel took the censer (representing the asteroid), and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an EARTHQUAKE." This is the worldwide earthquake.

On that Day of God's Wrath, there will be a great worldwide earthquake when the mountain-sized asteroid of Rev. 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea and the asteroid Wormwood of Rev. 8:10,11 obliterates Babylon in the land of Shinar.

Rev 18:21 agrees, saying, "And a mighty angel took up a stone (an asteroid) like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea (i.e., the Mediterranean Sea), saying, Thus (i.e., likewise) with violence (another asteroid impact) shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

Isa 22:16-19 tells us more about the impact of Satan's asteroid Wormwood on the Earth. It says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan possessed False Prophet), that thou (the False Prophet) hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock (Wormwood)? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL INTO A LARGE COUNTRY: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I WILL DRIVE THEE FROM THY STATION, AND FROM THY STATE SHALL HE PULL THEE DOWN."

Rev. 16:17-20 tells us about that GREAT WORLDWIDE EARTHQUAKE that the asteroid impacts cause. It says, "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, IT IS DONE. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and THERE WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE MEN WERE UPON THE EARTH, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and THE CITIES OF THE NATIONS FELL: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of HIS WRATH. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

> > Ezekiel 39:21-24 "I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see MY JUDGMENT which I have EXECUTED (i.e., on the Day of God's Wrath), and My hand which I have laid on them. So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day forward.

> > We are now talking about God's Judgment on all the nations. This will be the time of the 2nd Coming of Jesus and His battle against the nations during the Armageddon campaign.

> > Ezekiel 39:11-13 "It will come to pass in that day that I will give Gog a burial place there in Israel, the valley of those who pass by east of the sea; and it will obstruct travelers, because there they will bury Gog and all his multitude. Therefore they will call it the Valley of Hamon Gog. For SEVEN MONTHS the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on THE DAY THAT I AM GLORIFIED," says the Lord GOD.

I think there will be SEVEN MONTHS between the Day of God's Wrath (probably on Tishri 1, 5776) and the Second Advent (probably on Nisan 1, 5776, the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee years). Dan. 12:11 tells us that there will be 1290 days. The extra 30 days is because that year will be a Leap Year with a 13th month. 5776 will be a Leap Year.

> > In fact, the "7 years" in Ezekiel 39:9 may even be a clue that the War is at the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week.

I think the burning of the weapons takes place in the Millennium, after the Day of God's Wrath, after Christ returns, after Armageddon, which starts when Christ and his army arrive on Earth.

> > Ezekiel 38:18-20...The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground (6th Seal?).'

7th Seal.

Rev 8:1-5 says, "And when he had opened the SEVENTH SEAL, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. And THE ANGEL TOOK THE CENSER, AND FILLED IT WITH FIRE OF THE ALTAR, AND CAST IT INTO THE EARTH: AND THERE WERE VOICES, AND THUNDERINGS, AND LIGHTNINGS, AND AN EARTHQUAKE."

The earthquake ties this to Eze 39:20.
Eze 39:22 says, "So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day (the Day of God's Wrath) and forward."

> > Question: Will the rapture of the Church take place before the Gog and Magog War?
> > Answer: Scripture seems to indicate so. God will be pouring out HIS WRATH during the Gog and Magog War, and the Church is promised to not have to endure the Wrath of God.

I agree. Agape

TWO MILLION Fish Found Dead in Maryland


BEFORE Jesus opens the Seventh Seal the 'multitude saints' are standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. Then...

Rev 8:1
"When He opened the Seventh Seal, there was silence in Heaven for about half an hour."

The one-half hour of silence in Heaven is the 'separation' of the first-half of the '70th Week of Daniel' from the second-half. The wrath of God is now poured out on the whole world during the second-half.

Rev 8:5
"Then the angel took the censor, filled it with fire from the alter, and hurled it on the earth..." Come Lord Jesus!

My reply

There will be silence in heaven and silence on Earth on Judgment Day.

Hab 2:19,20 says, "Woe unto him (i.e., the False Prophet) that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it. But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the EARTH KEEP SILENCE before him."

Rev 8:1,2 says, "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was SILENCE IN HEAVEN about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."

I think the silence is out of respect as Jesus is being seated as judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ on the Day of the Lord, which is also the Day of God's Wrath and the first day of Christ's millennial rule. The best I can tell, it will probably be the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5776, Sept 14, 2015.

That day will be 7 months before Nisan 1, 5776, when I expect Christ to return on the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee year because 5776 is a leap year.

That agrees with Eze 39:12,13. It says, "And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (i.e., at the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."

Dan 12:11 adds the 13th month to the 1260 days (estimated time) of the Great Tribulation. It says, "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away (Mid-Trib), and the abomination (idol) that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

Daniel's 1335 days adds enough time for the battle of Armageddon, which will start at the Second Advent, to be over and the original allotted land given back to the tribes of Israel. Daniel will stand in his own plot of ground on that 1335th day.

> > The one-half hour of silence in Heaven is the 'separation' of the first-half of the '70th Week of Daniel' from the second-half. The wrath of God is now poured out on the whole world during the second-half.

To me, the wrath of God is to be poured out on one day, the great and terrible Day of the Lord.

Joel 2:31 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before THE GREAT AND THE TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD come."

That darkness doesn't come until the 6th seal is broken.

Rev 6:12-17 says, "I beheld when he had opened the SIXTH SEAL, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"

I think that awful day will be Jesus' Long Day, of which Joshua's Long Day was the type.

Of Joshua's Long Day, Jos 10:11 says, "And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that THE LORD CAST DOWN GREAT STONES FROM HEAVEN UPON THEM unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword."

Of Jesus' Long Day, Isa 24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it UPSIDE DOWN".

Of Jesus' Long Day, Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? (i.e., the asteroid Wormwood) Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. He will surely violently turn and TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

The asteroid Wormwood is a piece of Satan's original planet Rahab that split apart to form our Asteroid Belt. Isa 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (Christ); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (lit., split) Rahab, and wounded the dragon (Satan)?"

The asteroid impacts of Rev. 8:8-11 will cause this globe to temporarily be turned upside down. It will gradually regain its equilibrium, but it may steady in a bit of a new "place" in space.

Job 9:6 says, "Which shaketh the earth out of her PLACE, and the pillars thereof tremble."

Isa 13:13 says, "Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her PLACE, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger."

The asteroid Wormwood that Satan lives on will obliterate Babylon, which is near the Euphrates River. Jer 46:10 says, "For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates."

Rev 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

The Mystery Religion that has been festering ever since the Tower of Babel will end with the formation of the Lake of Fire, probably at Babylon.

Rev 19:20 says, "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image (statue, idol). These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." Agape

My reply to a post on Five Doves site

Re: John B (24 Jan 2011) "My Rapture Scenario"

> > in Rev. 4&5. We see----
> > 1) twenty four elders----whomever they are, certainly not the Raptured saints

I think they are the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles of Israel, our Representatives before the throne of God (Jesus, both God and man). In Rev. 5:8, the "four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints." As our Representatives, they deliver our prayers.


In Rev 3:21, Jesus said, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in MY THRONE, even as I also overcame, and AM SET DOWN WITH MY FATHER IN HIS THRONE."

In John 10:30, Jesus said, "I and my Father are one."

Eze 1:1 says, "the heavens were opened (he saw Mercury, Venus, Earth (1:15), Mars, Jupiter and Saturn), and I saw visions of God." He saw the throne of the God/man Jesus Christ.

Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (farther out in space than the 4 terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a THRONE, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE stone (sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear): and upon the likeness of the THRONE was the likeness as the appearance of a man (Jesus, the God/man) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire round about within it (it looks like a lighted lamp hung in the night sky), from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about (Saturn's ring system). As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

Rev 4:1-6 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was (lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a THRONE was set in heaven, and one (i.e., the God/man Jesus Christ) sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (first stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (last stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the first and the last, Rev. 22:13): and there was a rainbow (Saturn's rings) round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald (Judah's stone, because this God/man is the Lion of the tribe of Judah). And round about the throne were four and twenty seats (thrones): and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. And before the throne (Saturn) there was a SEA OF GLASS LIKE UNTO CRYSTAL" (Saturn's rings are made of ice crystals).

> > 2) four living creatures----certainly not Raptured saints

Rev 4:7,8 says, "And the first beast was like a LION, and the second beast like a CALF, and the third beast had a face as a MAN, and the fourth beast was like a flying EAGLE. And the four beasts had each of them six wings (as have the Seraphim) about him; and they were full of eyes (full orbs, i.e., globes) within: and they rest not day and night (they orbit), saying, HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, which was, and is, and is to come."

The LION, CALF (OX), MAN AND EAGLE were the faces on the flags set at the compass points around the Tabernacle. The LION represented Judah. His flag was set on the EAST. The CALF (OX) represented Ephraim. His flag was set on the WEST. The MAN represented Reuben. His flag was set on the SOUTH. The EAGLE represented Dan. His flag was set on the NORTH.

The Cherubim (4 terrestrial planets) face those same cardinal directions, N, E, S, W as they orbit. Eze. 10 says, "As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a MAN, and the face of a LION, on the right side: and they four had the face of an OX on the left side; they four also had the face of an EAGLE.

We know the Cherubim are planets, because Earth is one of them. Eze 1:15 says, "Now as I beheld the living (lively, i.e., flying) creatures, behold one wheel (orbit) upon the EARTH by the living creatures, with his four faces."

Isa 6:1-3 also describes the Seraphim. 'In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a THRONE, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, IS THE LORD OF HOSTS: the whole earth is full of his glory." Job 38:7 is similar. It says, "When THE MORNING STARS SANG TOGETHER, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn can be evening or morning stars when viewed from Earth.

I think the four Cherubim represent the terrestrial planets, Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars, and four Seraphim represent Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.

Rev 5:6 says, "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne (on Saturn) and of the four beasts (facing 4 directions as it orbits), and in the midst of the elders (12 patriarchs and 12 apostles), stood a Lamb (representing Jesus) as it had been slain, having seven horns (i.e., complete power, omnipotent) and seven eyes (all seeing), which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. "

3) Lion of the tribe of Judah, a Lamb----Jesus
4) Him who sat on the throne----God the Father
5) millions and millions of angels

> > Nowhere do we see millions of Raptured saints. So we can assume that Rapture hasn't happened yet.

Yes it has. Read on. It is evident in Rev. 5:8,9. Remember that there were no verse divisions in the original.

Rev. 5:8-10 says, "And when he (Jesus) had taken the book (i.e., the Title Deed of the Earth), the four beasts (representing four planets) and four and twenty elders (Representatives of the saints in heaven, the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles of one nation, ISRAEL) fell down before the Lamb (Christ), having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of SAINTS. And they (the saints from all around the world) sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us (saints, redeemed out of all nations, not just out of Israel, like their Representatives) to God by thy blood OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth."

> > we see that (in the sixth seal) at the same time Jesus was taking His Bride up in the Rapture, He was casting Satan and his angels (stars) to the earth in a rapid fashion.

Satan and his angels are cast down to Earth Mid-Trib. The Church saints are in Heaven BEFORE Mid-Trib. They are caught up in the FIRST-Trump Rapture (I Thess. 4:16,17). Those caught up in the "LAST"-Trump Rapture (I Cor. 15:51-54) at the end of the Tribulation are the Tribulation saints. Among them are the 144,000 Israelites and a great multitude which no man can number seen in Rev. 7,4-14.

Of this great multitude caught up in the second Rapture, only the 144,000 Israelites can sing the NEW SONG like the wise-virgin saints do in Rev. 5:9.

Rev. 14:3-5 says, "And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits (wise virgins plus the 144,000 Israelites) unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

At the 6th seal, Jesus doesn't catch up his Bride. They, the wise virgins, were caught up in Rev. 4:1. At the 6th seal, he catches up the foolish virgins in the second Rapture. The foolish virgins can't sing the NEW SONG like the wise virgins sang, but the 144,000 Israelites can. Why? because Israel was blinded in part until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:11,12 says, "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?"

> > 4) Him who sat on the throne----God the Father

To me, the God/man Jesus sat on his throne. That's why the lamb was used to represent him taking the little book.

Rev 4:2,3 says, "And immediately I (John) was (lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (first stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (last stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus was both the first and the last): and there was a rainbow round about the throne (as around his throne in Eze. 1:26-28), in sight like unto an emerald" (Judah's stone in the breastplate). Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

In Rev 22:13, Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

Isa 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his REDEEMER (Jesus) the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH King of Israel), and I am the last (YHWH of hosts); and beside me there is NO God."

Isa 48:2 says, "THE GOD OF ISRAEL; THE LORD (YHWH) OF HOSTS IS HIS NAME." That's Jesus, the Redeemer.

> > you could assume that those four horsemen have already begun their rides.

To me, that's impossible, because Jesus does not receive the little book until we are in Heaven. He can't break the seals until we are in heaven.

However, the first horseman is already in power when the Rapture takes place. In Rev. 17, the Rapture has just taken place. Verse 15 says, "he (Jesus) is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that ARE WITH HIM are called, and chosen, and faithful."

Rev 17:10 says, "And there are seven kings (leaders of Babel in the land of Shinar, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece, Holy Roman Empire, Ecclesiastical Roman Empire, and Babylon III): five are fallen, and ONE IS (the Pope, leader of the Ecclesiastical Roman Empire), and the other (the False Prophet, leader of Babylon III in the desert, the land of Shinar) is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

That short space is the Great Tribulation, the last half of the Tribulation, the space that has to be shortened or no flesh would be saved.

> > it appears that Satan and his troops will be cast from heaven at the same time Christ's Bride will be going to heaven.

That would be Mid-Trib. Until we are raptured, we are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. I think we will have to be gone before the Temple will be built in Jerusalem. It is there Mid-Trib, so it has to be built before that. I'm hoping the Rapture will be next Ascension Day, May 29, 2011.

> >. 2) " the sky will recede as a scroll and literally roll up" and "the sun will be as black as sackcloth of hair and the moon will appear as blood."-----It appears that the result of the transition from moral to immortal --- involving this many people--- will result in such a disturbance to our atmosphere, and our dimension that "the sky will recede as a scroll and literally roll up" and the sun will appear black and the moon red.

That happens at the Last-Trump Rapture (I Cor. 15:51-54) on the Day of God's Wrath. We will be raptured at the First-Trump Rapture (I Thess. 4:16,17).

> > 5) And the last sentence of the sixth seal---"For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" There is a lot to be understood from this last statement. Jesus is saying that the "great day of His wrath" or the great tribulation starts now at this time.

The Day of God's Wrath ends the Tribulation. It doesn't start it. Agape

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