Pro and Con 1622

Posted 7-31-2011

Found on Five Doves site, Re: Vicki (22 July 2011) "To Bruce Baber re: Satan's counterfeit of New Jerusalem...Pict. from Hubble telescope"

February 8, 1994

"Just days after space shuttle astronauts repaired the Hubble Space Telescope in mid December, the giant lens focused on a star cluster at the edge of the universe – and photographed heaven

"That’s the word from author and researcher Marcia Masson, who quoted highly places NASA insiders as having said that the telescope beamed hundreds of photos back to the command center at Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., on December 26.

"The pictures clearly show a vast white city floating eerily in the blackness of space.

"And the expert quoted NASA sources as saying that the city is definitely Heaven “because life as we know it couldn’t possibly exist in icy, airless space....

“'From what I understand, the first images it received were nothing more than kaleidoscopic bursts of color and light.'

“'As adjustments were made and the focus sharpened, NASA analysts couldn’t believe their eyes.

“'After checking and rechecking the data, they concluded that the images were authentic. They also theorized that the city couldn’t possibly be inhabited by life as we know it.

“'The only logical explanation was that the city was inhabited by the souls of the dead. As one of my sources put it, ‘We found where God lives.’”

My comments

I don't think that is a picture of Heaven, or of New Jerusalem. Paul was caught up to our "THIRD HEAVEN", Mars, Jupiter, SATURN.

2Co 12:2-4 says, "I knew a man (Paul himself, he didn't want to brag) in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one CAUGHT UP TO THE THIRD HEAVEN. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into PARADISE, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Josephus, a first-century Pharisee priest, made it clear that the lights on the candlestick, or lampstand, in the Temple stood for the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, our naked-eye solar system. The western lamp represented the Sun, the eastern one represented Saturn. The third heaven from Earth is Saturn, the last naked-eye planet.

In Antiquities III.VI.7, Josephus said the candlestick "spread itself into as many branches as there are planets, including the Sun among them." In Wars V.V.5, he said, "Now the seven lamps signified the seven planets."

In those days before telescopes, man could look up into the dark night sky and see Heaven, the outermost naked-eye planet.


Leading up to that alignment

1. Aug 2-3, Elenin will enter Earth’s Orbit
2. Aug 12-13, Elenin, Venus, Sun and Earth will line up
3. Aug 19-20, Elenin will enter Venus' Orbit
4. Sep 08-09, Elenin will be closest to Mercury's Orbit
5. Sep 16-17, Elenin, Sun and Neptune will line up
6. Sep 25, SATURN, Mercury, Sun, Elenin, Earth and Uranus will line up
7. Sep 26-27, the Sun, Elenin, Earth and Uranus will line up
Sep 29 is the Feast of Trumpets
Sep 30-01, 2011 Elenin, Mercury and Sun will line up
I'm sure hoping to get out of here on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept 29. 1st of Tishrei, 5772 = Thu, 29 September 2011.

Comet Elenin may cause several signs just before that date. It seems that every time it lines up with the Sun, another planet and Earth, we have a big earthquake somewhere. For instance, Earth aligned with Jupiter & the Sun on Feb 27th, 2010, when there was a big Chilean Earthquake.

On Sept 29, 2011, the Feast of Trumpets, Saturn will be in Virgo. She will be clothed with the Sun, and the Moon will be at her feet, as described in Rev 12. Surely that will be a favorable sign. Jesus was born on Trumpets in 5 BC, when that sign was in the sky. It seems to happen every 4th or 5th year.

It would sure be nice if the Bride of Christ was born into a new world on Trumpets. The Tribulation saints will be raptured on Trumpets, probably on Tishri 1, 5776, Mon, September 14, 2015. This way, all the saints would have the same birthstone, the sapphire, which means heaven.

In Eze 1:1,26-28, we find out that the throne of the only God/man, Jesus Christ, is on Saturn. It is symbolized by a sapphire stone, which means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear. Appropriately, heaven has a rainbow-like halo.

At 38 million miles from Earth, Elenin will be closer to Earth on Sept 25 than the Sun, and it will be close for 165 days. Saturn, Mercury, the Sun, and Elenin will be pulling the earth towards the Sun. Earth will be nearer the Sun than at any time in the last 3600 years. Will there be heat waves?

On Sep 26 and 27, the Sun, Elenin, Earth and Uranus will line up. Will there be earthquakes?

JPL and NASA have posted an Orbit Diagram where we can change the date. I saw Jupiter, but it doesn't go out far enough to show Saturn or Uranus.;orb=1;cov=0;log=0;cad=0#orb

A post on Five Doves, Re: Eliane B (21 July 2011) "The New Jerusalem"

Will the New Jerusalem orbit or land?

(Note: the both a cube and a pyramid. We don’t know the shape. Both shapes seem to fit in the description, although the drawings are obviously not to scale):

Many scholars say that the New Jerusalem will hover over the Earth and not land. But if the verse below is making reference to the New Jerusalem (which I think it is!), then the Bible says it will touch the Earth!

The verse is Isaiah 26:5:
"For he bringeth down them that dwell on high; the LOFTY CITY, he layeth it low; he layeth it low, even to the ground; he bringeth it even to the dust." (emphasis is mine)

New KJV:
"For He brings down those who dwell on high,
"He lays it low,
"He lays it low to the ground,
He brings it down to the dust."

Young’s Literal Translation:
"For He bowed down the dwellers on high, A city set ON HIGH He maketh low, He maketh it low unto the earth, He causeth it to come unto the dust".

Darby Translation:
"For he bringeth down them that dwell on high; the LOFTY CITY, he layeth it low, he layeth it low to the ground, he bringeth it even to the dust." YSIC, Eliane

My reply

Re: Eliane B (21 July 2011) "The New Jerusalem"

> > if the verse below is making reference to the New Jerusalem (which I think it is!), then the Bible says it will touch the Earth!
> > The verse is Isaiah 26:5

Let's see what time Isaiah was talking about. There were no chapter or verse divisions in the original.

Isa 22:5 says, "For it is a day of trouble, and of treading down, and of perplexity by the Lord GOD of hosts in the valley of vision, breaking down the walls, and of crying to the mountains" (to fall on them).

Rev 6:16,17 says, "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"

Isa 22:5 says, "For it is a day of trouble, and of treading down, and of perplexity by the Lord GOD of hosts in the valley of vision, breaking down the walls, and of crying to the mountains."

Then Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here (at Babylon), as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre ON HIGH, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a ROCK (sela, lofty rock, i.e., the asteroid Wormwood, Rev 8:11)? 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently turn and TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country (Iraq, not tiny Israel): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

Isa 24:1 (KJV) says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof." Then the time is the great and terrible Day of the Lord that is also the Day of God's Wrath, probably the Feast of Trumpets in 5776, Sept 14, 2015.

Isa 24:6 says, "Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Isa 24:19,20 says, "The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard"

Why? because it will get hit by the asteroid Wormwood that Satan lives on (Rev 8:11).

Isa 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high (i.e., Satan and his fallen angels), and the kings of the earth upon the earth."

That definitely is the Day of God's Wrath. Babylon will be destroyed and not be rebuilt.

Isa 25:2 says, "For thou hast made of a city an heap; of a defenced city a ruin: a palace of strangers to be no city; it shall never be built."

Isa 26:5 says, "For he bringeth down them (Satan and his fallen angels) that dwell on high (on the asteroid Wormwood, Rev 8:11); the lofty city, he layeth it low; he layeth it low, even to the ground; he bringeth it even to the dust."

That is the only time "lofty city" appears in Scripture. Satan's lofty city will impact Babylon on the Day of God's Wrath.

Isa 26:9 says, "when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness."

The Last-Trump Rapture will take place just before the asteroid impact.

Isa 26:17-21 says, "Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD. 18 We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. 19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they ARISE. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. 20 COME, my people, enter thou into thy chambers (i.e., in Heaven), and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until THE INDIGNATION be overpast. 21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place (Heaven) to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity".

Let's look at verse 17 again. It says, "Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD." This reminds me of the sign in Rev 12, when the Moon was under Virgo's feet.

Jesus was probably born on Tishri 1 in 5 BC, when the Moon was under Virgo's feet, and the Church saints just might be born into a new world (be raptured) on Tishri 1, 5771, Sept 29, 2011, when the Moon will again be under Virgo's feet.

The Tribulation saints probably will be born into a new world on Tishri 1, but the Moon will NOT be under Virgo's feet if it is in 5776. The Jubilee Year and Second Advent should come the following Nisan 1. There are 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent (Eze 39:12,13), and 5776 is a Leap Year with the 13th month. That's why Daniel 12:11 added another 30 days. A Sabbatic Year has to precede a Jubilee Year, and 5775 is a Sabbatic Year. Things seem to be falling in place. Agape

My afterthoughts

2Co 5:1 says, "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, ETERNAL IN THE HEAVENS".

Psa 91:14 says,"I will set him ON HIGH, because he hath known my name."


Because the lampstand represented the Sun and 6 naked-eye planets, the western lamp that represented the Sun burned perpetually and the other 6 lamps burned all night. However, the western lamp would not stay lit from 30 AD, the year of the Crucifixion, to 70 AD. It was an omen of the time when Jerusalem and the Temple would be burned.

2Ch 13:11 mentions "the candlestick of gold with the LAMPS THEREOF, TO BURN EVERY EVENING".

Ex 27:20,21 says, "And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp (i.e., the western lamp that represented the Sun) to burn always. 21 In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it FROM EVENING TO MORNING before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations."

Ex 30:7,8 says, "Aaron shall burn thereon sweet incense every MORNING: when he dresseth the lamps, he shall burn incense upon it. 8 And when Aaron LIGHTETH THE LAMPS AT EVEN, he shall burn incense upon it, a perpetual incense before the LORD throughout your generations."

Wikipedia says, "It was called the ner hama'aravi (WESTERN LAMP) because of its position. This lamp was also referred to as the ner Elohim (lamp of God), mentioned in I Samuel 3:3.[1] THE MIRACLE OF THE NER HAMA'ARAVI ENDED ABOUT 40 YEARS BEFORE THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE (circa 30 c.e.) according the Talmud Tractate (Yoma 39a), "Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple (that is to say around 30ad) the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right ...hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white; nor did the WESTERNMOST LIGHT SHINE"[11]

Exodus 25:37 says, "or 'the lamp', in the singular number, as it is in the original text; THE WESTERN LAMP, WHICH IS SAID TO BE ALWAYS KEPT LIGHTED".

"We read in the Jerusalem Talmud, "Forty years before the destruction of the Temple, the WESTERN LIGHT WENT OUT, the crimson thread remained crimson, and the lot for the Lord always came up in the left hand. They would close the gates of the Temple by night and get up in the morning and find them wide open" (Jacob Neusner, The Yerushalmi, p.156-157).

"A similar passage in the Babylonian Talmud states:

"Our rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot ['For the Lord'] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored strap become white; NOR DID THE WESTERN MOST LIGHT SHINE; and the doors of the Hekel [Temple] would open by themselves" (Soncino version, Yoma 39b)." "Talmudic Evidence for the Messiah at 30 C.E." by Nicholas Federoff

Psa 104:2 says, "Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who STRETCHEST OUT THE HEAVENS LIKE A CURTAIN".

There were cherubim embroidered on the ten widths of fabric that made up the tent of the Tabernacle, and there were originally ten planets. Satan's planet Rahab was split apart and is now our Asteroid Belt.

The Jewish historian Philo Judaeus wrote of the symbolism of the temple. XLV. (221) says, "...that the sacred candlestick and the seven lights upon it are an imitation of the wandering of the seven planets through the heaven."

The seven literal orbiting lamps of fire are the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. The throne of Christ is on the 7th, Saturn, portrayed in Eze 1:1,26-28 by the symbol sapphire, which means dear to the planet Saturn.

In Wars V. V. 4,5, Josephus said that the Temple's "first gate...had no doors; for it represented the universal visibility of HEAVEN." Before golden doors "there was a vail of equal largeness with the doors. It was a Babylonian curtain, embroidered with blue and fine linen, and scarlet, and purple...a kind of IMAGE OF THE UNIVERSE...THIS CURTAIN ALSO HAD EMBROIDERED ON IT ALL THAT WAS MYSTICAL IN THE HEAVENS, excepting that of the [twelve] signs, representing living creatures."

"When a priest entered the temple from the east, he would first enter the court of the Israelites. This first section was an open area with no roof on it just outside the main Temple. This "FIRST HEAVEN" symbolized our atmosphere surrounding the earth. The symbolic "SECOND HEAVEN" in the temple began at the eastern curtain in front of the Holy Place where the menorah and table of showbread stood. This curtain, we are told by Josephus, HAD THE PRINCIPAL STARS OF THE HEAVENS DISPLAYED ON IT in tapestry form." ( (emphasis mine)

The Tabernacle represented our three heavens. Outside, the Altar on a mound of soil, and the Brazen Sea represented Earth, which is 70% water.

Inside the Tabernacle, the Holy Place, two cubes in size, represented the spheres Mars and Jupiter of the same dimensions as the two cubes), and the Holy of Holies was one cube, representing the sphere of Saturn, the third heaven.

Cubes can represent spheres, because in both, the length and width are equal.

Dan 7:9 says, "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne (i.e., on Saturn) was like the fiery flame (of the easternmost lamp on the lampstand), and his wheels (orbits) as burning fire."

"To summarize, if you were to walk through the temple it would look something like this.

"From the eastern side you would enter the court of the Israelites called the 1st heaven (our atmosphere).

"2. Next you would come in front of the temple with a huge curtain that had twelve zodiacal depictions on it. When you went through this curtain it was if you were breaking through the earth's sky from the "first heaven" into the "second heaven" where the sun, moon and stars dwell (also called the Holy Place). This was symbolized by the candlestick (menorah) and the table of showbread which represented the twelve months of the year and the twelve tribes of Israel.

"3. After passing through the universe where all the stars and planets dwell, you would enter through another curtain where God would dwell. This would be known as the "third heaven." It was in this chamber where God's symbol hovered over the ark of the covenant, just above the mercy seat." (Astronomical symbolism of the Jewish Temple, by Gman, Jun 13, 2009


Rev 21:9-27 says, "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great CITY, THE HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14 "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16 And THE CITY LIETH FOURSQUARE (tetragonos, four quartered, from tetra, four, and gonia, quarter), AND THE LENGTH IS AS LARGE AS THE BREADTH: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. THE LENGTH AND THE BREADTH AND THE HEIGHT OF IT ARE EQUAL (as are the length, breadth and height of Earth).

17 "And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. 18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. 19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 "And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as (if) it were transparent glass. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 "And THE NATIONS OF THEM WHICH ARE SAVED SHALL WALK IN THE LIGHT OF IT (i.e., like the light of the Sun and Moon): and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be NO NIGHT THERE. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

When v.16 says, "And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth", I think it is talking about a sphere. Earth's length is the same as its breadth. The Holy of Holies had the same kind of measurements. It was a cube, and it represented Heaven, Saturn, a sphere, the third heaven Paul was caught up to in II Cor 12:1-4. The Holy Place was two cubes. They represented Mars and Jupiter, the first and second heavens, spheres that would fit into cube-shaped boxes.

The Temple was a replica of the heavens.

Heb 8:5 says, "Who serve unto THE EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the PATTERN shewed to thee in the mount."

Heb 9:23 says, "It was therefore necessary that the PATTERNS OF THINGS IN THE HEAVENS should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these."

I think New Jerusalem will orbit the Earth like the Moon.

Isa_11:12 (KJV) says, "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS (kanaph, quarters) OF THE EARTH."

Kanaph: Strong's H3671: From H3670; an edge or extremity; specifically (of a bird or army) a WING, (of a garment or bed clothing) a flap, (of the earth) a QUARTER, (of a building) a pinnacle: - + bird, border, corner, end, feather [-ed], X FLYING, + (one an-) other, overspreading, X QUARTERS, skirt, X sort, uttermost part, wing ([-ed]).

Isa_11:12 (LITV) says, "And He shall lift up a banner for the nations, and shall gather the outcasts of Israel, and gather those dispersed from Judah, from the four WINGS OF THE EARTH."

In Eze 1, Earth (mentioned in v. 15) is depicted as having wings, because it flies upon the wings of the wind. All four terrestrial planets fly in concentric circles upon the wings of the wind.

Eze 1:6 says, "And every one (of the four terrestrial planets) had four faces (as spheres, they face four directions, N, S, E, and W), and every one had four wings (kanaph, quarters).

Rev_7:1 says, "I saw four angels standing on the FOUR CORNERS (gonia, quarters) of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

I love what Jack Kelley said about New Jerusalem.

"I don’t think anyone has ever done the math. Its cubic volume is 1/6th the size of planet Earth. Some place it in Israel never realizing that it’s far bigger than than all the land Israel has been given. In fact it would cover all of western Europe from Northern Finland to Southern Italy. And at 1600 miles tall it’s 3100 times as tall as the Dubai tower, the new tallest building in the world. (1600 miles is almost 8.5 million feet. The Dubai tower is a mere 2700 feet tall.) Can you imagine trying to stick something like that to a globe that’s spinning at the rate of 1,000 miles per hour? How long do you think it would take for it to fly apart? A low orbit satellite makes a lot more sense."

Zechariah 1:12-17 says, "Then the angel of the LORD answered and said, O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years? 13 And the LORD answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words. 14 So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy. 15 And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction. 16 Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem. 17 Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem."

Incoming e-mail, Re: The Delay 1 Peter 4-16-19

I continue a thought I've posted to you before.

If the time line you propose is correct, then we are in the first part of the tribulation right now. (full 7 yrs since fall of '08, 2300 days since May '09 etc)

So is this the 'delay' that the wise and foolish virgins experienced when the 'all fell asleep'?

I'm looking anew at these verses from 1 Peter 4:16-19 KJV. It seems they pertain to our exact time. For indeed we as believers are suffering the trials of decisions made in Washington that are harming our economy, limiting job growth etc. Many have lost their jobs or can't find good paying new ones. They've lost their houses and 401k retirement monies etc. (of course that includes believers and non believers.)

They now say we are just as bad or likely even worse off than the great depression of the 1930s.

Considering that we hope to be raptured and that according to Revelation we have to endure a portion of the tribulation, then these verses may apply to us right now.

1 Peter 4:16-19 KJV
16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian (during the early years of the tribulation), let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. (notice it says "this" behalf, not "his" behalf.)

17For the time is come (the 70th week. specifically the 2300 days of Daniel) that judgment must begin at the house of God: (A division between the 1st rapture for the Bride and those left until the 2nd pre-wrath rapture. A division between the wise and foolish virgins.) and if it first begin at us (the Bride who will be raptured), what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (those left behind to wait for the 2nd pre-wrath rapture. They will experience even greater financial hardships, wars, sufferings etc than we are seeing right now.)

18And if the righteous scarcely be saved (via the 1st rapture), where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (they will be left until the 2nd pre-wrath rapture.)

19Wherefore let them that suffer (from Fall 2008 until the 1st rapture) according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. (until the 1st rapture - may it come soon!)

Emphasis is mine.

Let us all "commit the keeping of their (our) souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator". Blessings on you!

My reply

Thanks for putting it together like this. I'm hoping for the Rapture on Trumpets, Sept 29, 2011. Earth, comet Elenin and the Sun will be aligned. There could be a large earthquake somewhere. There was an alignment of some kind on March 11, when the earthquake and tsunami hit Japan. People disappearing could be blamed on a natural disaster of some kind. We'll see. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Fiji Earthquake

6.7 mag 2011/07/29 07:42:23 521.7 deep

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