Pro and Con 1628

Posted 8-28-2011

Why does Obama take off his shoes and pray with Muslims?

The Thermosphere Collapsed

"The thermosphere", the layer of Earth's atmosphere that meets space, recently collapsed and is now rebounding again...and we don't know why. The thermosphere is important because it shields us from the Sun's Extreme Ultraviolet Photons.

My comments

Closest to Earth is the Troposphere. Farther out is the Stratosphere, then the Mesosphere, and then the Thermosphere. I take it that the Troposphere, Stratosphere and Mesosphere are ok. We just had a gigantic sun flare, the biggest I have ever seen. We barely escaped with our electric grids intact. I'm not going to worry about the Thermosphere or the comet Elenin. I'm thankful the Lord is in charge of all these things we have no control over.


NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Will Comet Elenin come close to the Earth or between the Earth and the moon?

Comet Elenin will not come closer to Earth than 22 million miles (35 million kilometers). That's more than 90 times the distance to the moon....

"Any approximate alignments of comet Elenin with other celestial bodies are meaningless, and the comet will not encounter any dark bodies that could perturb its orbit, nor will it influence us in any way here on Earth," said Don Yeomans, a scientist at NASA JPL....

Will Elenin block out the sun for three days?

"As seen from the Earth, comet Elenin will not cross the sun's face," says Yeomans.

But even if it could cross the sun, which it can't, astrobiologist David Morrison notes that comet Elenin is about 2-3 miles (3-5 kilometers) wide, while the sun is roughly 865,000 miles (1,392,082 kilometers) across. How could such a small object block the sun, which is such a large object?

From a post on Five Doves: "2 THESS2:3 ITS NOT A FALLING AWAY"

Lewis Brackett (27 Aug 2011)

The correct translation of 2 thess2:3 is departure/ rapture of the church not a falling away from the faith. the KJV is wrong there.

the best scholarship translates it "departure...

See my paraphrase here. My version of 1&2 thess plus the 1st part of John will soon be published somewhere

Two Thessalonians 2

When there is discussion about the meaning of a word, the context of the discussion reveals the truth….. Here the Thessalonians thought that they had missed the rapture, and Paul assures them they had not.

That is why 2Thess2:3 is properly translated “departure” as in the rapture and not a “Falling Away” as in the KJV.

Here are four early translations of 2Th 2:3…...Tyndale (1534) 2Th 2:3 excepte ther come a departynge fyrst— Coverdale (1535) excepte the departynge come first, —–the Geneva Bible (1537) except there come a departing first, —–Cranmer (1539 excepte ther come a departynge fyrst...


I don't see how Obama could possibly qualify for the Antichrist, as Ron Reese thinks. Obama is anti- American, a socialist trying hard to spend us into oblivion, not Antichrist. Didn't Obama say, "My Muslim faith"? and guarantee the Egyptians that he was Muslim? Besides that, he does not have any ties to the Ecclesiastical Roman Empire that I know of. To me, the Antichrist must come out of the revived Holy Roman Empire, i.e., the Ecclesiastical Holy Roman Empire, the king that "is" in power in Rev 17:10.

It says, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and ONE IS, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." The five empires that are fallen are Babel, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece and the Holy Roman Empire. The one that "is" is the Ecclesiastical Holy Roman Empire headed up by the Pope. The one person that is yet to come is out of Babylon III, also headed up by a Pope.

The False Prophet is called "THE ASSYRIAN", and Obama is not an ASSYRIAN. His father is in Kenya, his step-father in Indonesia. He went to school in Indonesia and Hawaii.

Ancient Assyria included Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Iran, Jordan, and some of Turkey. None of these have anything to do with Obama. Isa 14:24-27 says, "The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: 25 That I will break THE ASSYRIAN in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders. 26 THIS IS THE PURPOSE THAT IS PURPOSED UPON THE WHOLE EARTH: AND THIS IS THE HAND THAT IS STRETCHED OUT UPON ALL THE NATIONS. 27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?"

Mic 5:13 says, "Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands."

Jer 50:2, the verse I saw a rectangle of light on, says, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."

Eze_30:13 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also destroy the idols, and I will cause their IMAGES to cease out of Noph; and THERE SHALL BE NO MORE A PRINCE OF THE LAND OF EGYPT: and I will put a fear in the land of Egypt."

Who uses images? i.e., idols? the Holy Roman Ecclesiastical Empire.

The Pope fits the scriptures. He has the name of blasphemy, Pontifex Maximus, just like Nimrod, king of Babel, and the kings of Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece and the Holy Roman Empire. Those are the five that have fallen (Rev 17:10). The one that "IS" at the time of the Rapture (Rev 17:14) will be the Pontifex Maximus of the Revived Holy Roman Empire, i.e., the Ecclesiastical Roman Empire. The one that is yet to come will be the Satan indwelt False Prophet, probably the head of the Ecclesiastical Roman Empire and Babylon III.

Isa 9:15 says, "The ancient and honourable (i.e., the Pope), he is the head (6th head of the great red dragon, ruling over the Ecclesiastical Roman Empire); and the prophet (i.e., 7th head) that teacheth lies, he is the tail." The False Prophet is both the 7th head and the tail of the great red dragon because he is indwelt by Satan.

Obama just became 50 August 4. He does not fit the "ancient" or the "honourable." It looks like he is trying to spend this country into oblivion. He and his wife even left for vacation on separate planes within four hours of each other. Was that double expenditure necessary? I doubt it.

"In his latest treasonous act against American Patriots across the country, Barack Obama halted ALL deportations of illegal immigrants."

"Obama Literally Stops Enforcing The US Constitution Gives A Free Pass To 20 Million Illegals"
By Frosty Wooldridge, 8-19-11

"In the MOST ANTI-AMERICAN ACT of his short term in office, Barack Hussein Obama, an outsider president gave amnesty to over 20 million illegal aliens and possibly a much higher number when the final count arrives.

"News reports...indicate that the Obama Administration will be dropping active deportation cases against over 300,000 illegal aliens," said Oltman. "They will all be getting work permits, if they don't have them already. Ten percent unemployment in the country and 300,000 were just added to labor market. And, of course, if they don't find jobs, expect them to start sucking up taxpayer benefits like WELFARE and FOOD STAMPS and HEALTHCARE. Expect, in very short order, a surge on the border."

Obama is trying hard to make this country a Socialist Country.
Paying Socialism Forward
By Roger Hedgecock, May 18th, 2009


President Obama has proposed massive increases in federal government spending and trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see.

But last week, he said such deficit spending was “unsustainable.”

He’s right.

Not four months into his term of office, President Obama has: doubled the fiscal year deficit by adding $460 billion to the Bush budget he inherited; proposed an astounding $1.8 trillion deficit for FY 2010, and projected adding $9 trillion over 10 years to the existing accumulated U.S. debt of $8 trillion.

Obama’s pledge to “cut the deficit in half” by the fourth year of his term is to be achieved first by tripling the deficit this year, then cutting that amount in half three years later – still leaving a deficit in FY 2012 bigger than any year since 1945.

And that’s if Congress doesn’t spend more than the president asks for – which is what Congress does every year.

Finding lenders for this record amount of debt looks problematic. Recent Treasury debt auctions featured discounted prices and higher than expected interest rates, fueling speculation that the AAA-rated U.S. debt may already be losing its luster.

Our biggest foreign creditor, China, currently holds some $1.5 trillion in U.S. debt, accumulated over several decades.

China has warned that its appetite for buying more U.S. debt is limited and the U.S. government may have to produce more “security” to sell next year’s $1.8 trillion deficit.

Printing money is the other way to cover spending money you don’t have.

In the private sector, this is known as “forgery.”

The Federal Reserve is currently buying Treasury debt with what the New York Times calls “money out of thin air.”

Jimmy Carter tried this solution in the ’70s, and hyper inflation was the result.

Other countries desiring a government-guaranteed good life can’t borrow or print the money to finance it – they actually have to pay for socialism.

Take Finland, for example.

Finland boasts “cradle to grave” government guarantees.

Last week, the government of Finland announced that its current year budget had an 11 percent surplus, that government debt had been completely paid off, and that the economy would grow by 3 percent this year.

How does it do that?

Finland drills for oil.

Offshore oil drilling will earn Finland $68 billion this year.

The frugal Finns have invested most of that around the world so that they can afford socialism even when the oil runs out.

The U.S. has many more times the Finnish oil reserves on publicly owned land – but the U.S. government refuses to allow drilling.

Venezuela would not be a factor in the world if it were not for oil.

We import oil from Venezuela, funding Hugo Chavez’ adventures in Yankee baiting, even as we refuse to drill our own larger proven oil reserves.

Brazil will be a factor among emerging nations because of vast new oil fields offshore.

The U.S. has more proven offshore oil reserves on the Outer Continental Shelf than Brazil but refuses to allow drilling there.

Louisiana reaps hundreds of millions from oil platforms in state waters in the Gulf of Mexico and counts 80,000 well-paying jobs created by the oil industry.

California has a budget meltdown under way, yet it refuses to allow drilling of vast proven offshore oil reserves in state waters.

If We the People really want Big Government to expand its reach and cost to “spread the wealth around” and promote “social justice,” then we ought to pay for it.

Borrowing money succeeding generations will hate us for printing money to pay the debt with cheaper dollars that reduce our standard of living are not wise alternatives.

China is building a new coal-fired power plant every month.

China wants to raise the standard of living of its people, not lower it.

The U.S. has more proven coal reserves than China, yet the Obama government will not allow a coal-fired power plant CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION to be completed, and has promised that NO MORE COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS WILL BE BUILT IN THIS COUNTRY.

So where will the electricity come from for my tiny electric GM car of the future?

Tapping the vast, proven energy resources of our country always made more sense than funding our enemies by buying these resources overseas.

Obama’s ambition to insert government into every corner of our lives makes accessing our country’s own natural wealth even more imperative.
"ObamaHood robbing The Worker to buy votes of The Lazy"

"Obama using Cloward-Piven to bankrupt America (See Cloward–Piven strategy in Wikipedia: It says, "The Cloward–Piven strategy is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward (1926-2001) and Frances Fox Piven (b. 1932) that called for overloading the U.S. public welfare system in order to precipitate a crisis that would lead to a replacement of the welfare system with a national system of "a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty".

"President Obama has proposed massive increases in federal government spending and trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see.
As bad as this sounds, I don't see how Obama could be the Antichrist or the False Prophet. Does he have the name of blasphemy, Pontifex Maximus? No. Is he a religious leader, a man of the cloth. No. Power has not been given unto him to continue exactly forty and two months. He has not been given power over all kindreds, tongues and nations. He must figure that he has to buy votes by declaring amnesty to illegal aliens to even stay in power over one nation. Do "all that dwell upon the earth...worship him"? No.

Rev 13:2 says, "And the beast (i.e., Antichrist) which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece, Dan 7:6), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (Media-Persia, Dan 7:5), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: (Babylon II, Dan 7:4).

Is Obama like Nebuchadnezzar, the head of Babylon II, or Cyrus, the head of Media-Persia, or Alexander the Great, the head of Greece? No.

He is head of the United States. which is only alluded to in 2Sa 7:23 and 1Ch 17:21.

2Sa 7:23 says, "And what one (echad, UNITED) NATION (goy, gentile nation, i.e., the United States) in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to REDEEM FOR A PEOPLE TO HIMSELF, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?"

1Ch_17:21 is almost the same. It says, "And what one (echad, UNITED) NATION (goy, gentile nation, i.e., the United States) in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem TO BE HIS OWN PEOPLE, to make thee a name of greatness and terribleness, by driving out nations from before thy people, whom thou hast redeemed out of Egypt?"

Obama seems to be against Israel. He wants them to go back to the pre-1967 borders. That is not defensible. Anyone should be able to understand that. Part of the country would be 8 miles wide. That won't work. It shows Obama up for what he is, a Muslim against Israel. That is bad enough. He doesn't qualify for being the Antichrist.


Astronomy Picture of the Day, Aug 26, 2011

A Young SUPERNOVA in the Nearby Pinwheel Galaxy...

"A NEARBY STAR HAS EXPLODED and telescopes all over the world are turning to monitor it. The supernova, dubbed PTF 11kly, was DISCOVERED BY COMPUTER ONLY TWO DAYS AGO as part of the Palomar Transit Factory (PTF) sky survey utilizing the wide angle 1.2-meter Samuel Oschwin Telescope in California. Its rapid recovery makes it one of the supernovas caught most soon after ignition. PTF 11kly occurred in the photogenic Pinwheel galaxy (M101), which, being only about 21 million light years away, makes it ONE OF THE CLOSEST SUPERNOVAS SEEN IN DECADES. Rapid follow up observations have already given a clear indication that PTF 11kly is a Type Ia SUPERNOVA, a type of white dwarf detonation that usually progresses in such a standard manner than it has helped to calibrate the expansion history of the entire universe. Studying such a close and young Type Ia event, however, may yield new and unique clues. If early indications are correct, PTF 11kly should brighten to about visual magnitude 10 in the coming weeks, making it possible to monitor with even moderately sized telescopes."

A post on Five Doves, Re: Fay (9 May 2011) "The 4 Horses of the Apocalypse"

Okay - if our LORD gave us a heads up re the eerie image of the pale (green) horse during those riots in Egypt, then that tells us that these horses represent more than one meaning. Just like each prophecy has a 'near' and 'far' meaning. I'm sure that another erudite Dove has posted this before, but I didn't take as much notice as I should of. Let's start from the premise that the green horse, witnessed in the Egyptian riots, represented the destruction of the rise of Islam. It was no accident, fellow Doves - we all saw it. Therefore, we were given a hint as to what the other horses represent - not so?? We have to think of this prophecy in terms of the human race over time - not just in the end days.

My take:- 1) The white horse represents the rise of the 'white race' - the 1st world - capitalism etc. Think about it. It makes sense.

6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

2) The red horse represents the rise of communism - Russia, China, Germany ( in the old days ) Cuba etc. Given power to kill and destroy etc. Take peace away from the world and cause utter mayhem.

6:3 "And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see." "And there went out another horse [that was] red: and [power] was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

3) The black horse represents famine, disease etc. Does Africa and the 3rd world spring to mind?? There is a great deal of agriculture and mining going on in Africa and other 3rd world countries. But who does it benefit??? The ' White Horse' crowd !! The people of the 3rd world have suffered starvation and deprivation for years. The ' oil and wine' of the the vineyards of the 3rd world have always been exported to the the 1st world countries. It's interesting that these horses are in order of the 1st world, 2nd world, 3rd world..........etc.

6:5-6 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand." "And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and [see] thou hurt not the oil and the wine".

4) This horse represents Islam. Of this, I have no doubt. The LORD showed us this in that Egyptian riot clip. Not only that - the color of Islam is green. We see their flags, on telly, all the flipping time. The ' fourth part of the earth' is the exact replica of 'the beast' picture over the map of the Middle East with north Africa included.

6:7-8 "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see." "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

Doves, in view of this, it is my firm belief that the 4 horses of the Apocalypse have been set loose. All aspects of the human condition are represented in these 4 horses. The last one being the pale (green) horse of Islam. Obama has set this marauding horde free. With his anti Christ policies. Islam and it's jihad destruction, has been let loose upon the world.

Couple all those together with the 'seal' signs we are seeing and we are being given a VERY clear idea of where we are. The 'seal' signs are right after the horses. Do they have a 'near and far' meaning as well? Let's put our heads together. YSIC, Fay

My reply

> > The 'seal' signs are right after the horses. Do they have a 'near and far' meaning as well? Let's put our heads together.

The seals introduce the horses. Maybe one seal is broken per year. I don't see two meanings. The horse and rider you saw in Egypt could be a sign that the Satan-indwelt False Prophet is coming Mid-Trib. It has to agree with Scripture, or it isn't anything we want to have anything to do with.

The seals, starting in Rev 6, can't be broken until Christ is given the seven-sealed book in Rev 5, after the First-Trump Rapture takes place in Rev 4:1. The 7-sealed book is probably the Title Deed of the Earth.


Rev 4:1 says, "a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a TRUMPET talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee THINGS WHICH MUST BE HEREAFTER" (i.e., after the Rapture).

Of this Rapture, I Thess 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."


Rev 5:1 says, "I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne A BOOK written within and on the backside, SEALED WITH SEVEN SEALS."

Rev 5:6,7 says, "I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders (i.e., the 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles of Israel), stood a Lamb (representing Christ) as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."


Rev 6:1,2 says, "I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow (toxon, plain fabric, i.e., he is a man of the cloth, a religious leader, probably a Pope); and a CROWN was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

The fabric is a signal that this man is a religious leader. In God's picture book of the Gospel of Christ in the sky, Cepheus, representing Christ the King of kings, is holding aloft a piece of cloth, plain fabric, to show that he is a religious leader.

Mt 7:15 warns us to "Beware of false prophets (plural, i.e., the two beasts of Rev 13), which come to you in sheep's clothing (WOOL), but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

The Pope's badge of office, the symbol of his supreme authority, is the WOOLEN PALLIUM worn over his liturgical dress. It is a woolen sash, or a modified woolen sash cut in a circle to fit over the head and with straight sashes hanging down from it front and back. There are four crosses on it. That's his "sheep's clothing" badge of office. In this picture, he is wearing the pallium, the red cape of Nimrod, and the hat of Dagon, the fish god. It looks like the open mouth of a fish.

It sounds to me like both beasts of Rev 13 will be Popes. Of the False Prophet, verse 12 says, "And he EXERCISETH ALL THE POWER OF THE FIRST BEAST before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed." This deadly wound may represent the fall of the Holy Roman Empire as well as a wounded Pope. Rome's power was transferred from the Empire to the Pope.

The first beast of Rev 13 is the Antichrist. He comes to full power in Rev 6 after the Rapture of Rev 4:1. However, he is already in office when the Rapture takes place.

The setting of Rev 17 is when the Rapture takes place. Verse 14 says of Christ, "he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that ARE WITH HIM are called, and chosen, and faithful."

Rev 17:10 says, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen (Babel, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece, Holy Roman Empire), and ONE IS (Ecclesiastical Roman Empire), and the other (Babylon III) is not yet come."

Rev 13:1-10 says, "I stood upon the sand of the sea (i.e., the Mediterranean), and saw a beast (i.e., the great red dragon) rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads THE NAME OF BLASPHEMY (i.e., PONTIFEX MAXIMUS, the title claimed by all 7 heads, rulers of Tower of Babel, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece, Holy Roman Empire, Ecclesiastical Roman Empire and Babylon III). 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (i.e., like Greece, Dan 7:6), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (i.e., like Media- Persia, Dan 7:5), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (i.e., like Babylon II, Dan 7:4): and the dragon (Satan) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his (the great red dragon's) heads (the Holy Roman Empire) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed (it became the Ecclesiastical Roman Empire): and all the world wondered after the beast (i.e., the Pontifex Maximus). 4 And they worshipped the dragon (Satan) which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast (the Pontifex Maximus), saying, Who is like unto the beast? (no one) who is able to make war with him? (no one) 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and BLASPHEMIES (including claiming to be the Pontifex Maximus, Latin: "greatest bridge-maker," i.e., the high priest, when Christ is the High Priest); and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (the first half of the Tribulation). 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them (the wise virgins) that dwell in heaven (i.e., the First-Trump Rapture has already taken place). 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints (including the foolish virgins), and to overcome them: and POWER WAS GIVEN HIM OVER ALL KINDREDS, AND TONGUES, AND NATIONS. (i.e., Satan's offer that Jesus turned down) 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints."

Of the time when Satan tempted Jesus, Mt 4:8-10 said, "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, ALL THESE THINGS WILL I GIVE THEE, IF THOU WILT FALL DOWN AND WORSHIP ME. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." It looks like the Antichrist will accept Satan's offer and "fall down and worship" him.

This may have already happened. The Pope gives the Satanic handsign.


Jdg 7:18 says, "When I blow with a trumpet, I and all that are with me, then blow ye the trumpets also on every side of all the camp, and say, THE SWORD OF THE LORD, and of Gideon."

THE SWORD OF THE LORD will hit Earth on the Feast of Trumpets.

Jdg 7:20 says, "And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The SWORD OF THE LORD, and of Gideon."

Isa 66:16 says, "For by fire and BY HIS SWORD will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many."

Isa 34:6 says, "The SWORD OF THE LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea."

Jer 12:12 says, "The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the SWORD OF THE LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace."

Jer 25:29 says, "For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I WILL CALL FOR A SWORD UPON ALL THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH, saith the LORD of hosts."

Jer 25:31 says, "A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to THE SWORD, saith the LORD."

Jer 46:10 says, "For this is the DAY OF THE LORD GOD OF HOSTS, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for THE LORD GOD OF HOSTS hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates."

Jer 47:6 says, "O thou SWORD OF THE LORD, how long will it be ere thou be quiet? put up thyself into thy scabbard, rest, and be still."

Jer 50:35 says, "A SWORD is upon the Chaldeans, saith the LORD, and upon the inhabitants of Babylon, and upon her princes, and upon her wise men."

I don't know exactly how much time is assigned to each of the 2nd and 3rd horses, but it looks like the reign of the first beast lasts the first half of the Tribulation. Therefore, maybe two more horses, representing war and famine, will follow the revealing of the Antichrist closely. We are already seeing food prices increase dramatically. Both floods and drought are wiping out crops. Wheat does not grow well in a dry field. Corn is being used to manufacture ethanol instead of being used for food, a big mistake. We should drill for oil and gas instead. Many fields that used to grow other food items have been converted to corn for ethanol. Radiation poisoning is ruining crops in Japan.

Rev 6:3-6 says, "And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. 4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. 5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny (i.e., representing a day's wages), and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."

The breaking of the 4th seal will introduce the Satan-possessed False Prophet Mid-Trib. He will be enabled by Satan to do some tricks.

Of the Satan-possessed False Prophet, Rev 13:13,14 says, "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast".

Rev 6:7,8 says, "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death (i.e., the False Prophet), and Hell (i.e., Satan) followed with him. And power was given unto THEM over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

So the first beast rides forth on the white horse at the beginning of the Tribulation. He rules 1260 days. The second beast rides forth on the pale horse Mid-Trib and rules less than 1260 days, because the Great Tribulation is to be shortened or no flesh would be saved.

> > The 'seal' signs are right after the horses. Do they have a 'near and far' meaning as well?

The seals don't follow the horses. When a seal is broken, a horse rides forth. I can't see any dual meaning there. Agape

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