Pro and Con 1630

Posted 9-16-2011

Lightning strike up close

Meteorite blasts across skies of Peru leaving forest fires in its wake

By Claire Bates, Aug 29, 2011

Blazing with the fury of a mini-sun this amazing video shows the moment a suspected meteor streaked across the sky over the city of Cusco in Peru.

It was captured blasting through the upper levels of the atmosphere at 2pm yesterday afternoon, leaving an irredescent trail in its wake.

Experts believe it may have caused forest fires to the south of the city, which have been ravaged by drought.

My note: This trail is just a little bit wider than the brilliant white meteorite trail I saw one time from my back yard. Its trail was horizontal overhead and without the slightest warning it burned out suddenly with no fireball. I heard its sizzle all the way until it just blinked out.

ANOTHER SIGN: "Spectacular supernova to light up skies this week"

By Diane Alter, Sept 8, 2011
I found it on:

it was supposed to already be seen above the Big Dipper. Spotted Aug 23, it is bright enough to see with the naked eye.

Brightest supernova in 25 years visible to stargazers in Britain this week

See Video:

Incoming e-mail, Re: Interim Five Doves letters feature

Many of you are no doubt aware of the Five Doves web site; it's been a reliable staple for info. John Tng runs it and he has gone on vacation for two weeks. I sent him an offer to take up the slack but he has not responded. I suspect he turned off his computer and left town. I have created a letters page at for those who may want to post. Please promulgate this offer and the web page. Those who wish to post should address letters to anakypto@rogershermansociety.
Best, Steve

Incoming e-mail from Annette, Re: United Nations: Palestinians Back Off??

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that he will address the UN Friday, Sept 23, 2011 the day on which the Palestinians say they will submit their bid for full UN membership.

Sept. 14, 2011, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas decided crucially not to submit his application to the UN Security Council. He also notified Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal and European Union foreign executive Catherine Ashton in Cairo that he was considering watering down his application to the UN General Assembly – possibly by dropping the "state within 1967 borders" provision from the text. more ...

Incoming e-mail, Re: JAPAN'S ATOMIC BOMB

by usayeah
1st video:

2nd video:

3rd video:

4th video:

5th video:

My comment

Wow! I had no idea Japan was close to producing an atomic bomb too. North Korea was also involved. Our scientists agonized over whether they should use it. It is a good thing they did.


by karlvorman
Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:


The following Scripture is 'THE CLUE' to the correct understanding of the end-time events:

Revelation 5:9-10

WHO, other than 'THE CHURCH' is this Scripture describing? NONE OTHER!! IT IS THE CHURCH!!!

Now, read THE DESCRIPTION of the 'great multitude' wearing white robes standing before the throne in front of the Lamb in heaven.

Revelation 7:9,14-15
"there before me was a great multitude that no one could count 'FROM EVERY NATION, TRIBE, PEOPLE, AND LANGUAGE' standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb.
"they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, they are before the throne of God AND SERVE HIM day and night in His temple"

WHO, other than 'THE RAPTURED CHURCH' is this Scripture describing? NONE OTHER!! IT IS THE RAPTURED CHURCH!!!

Revelation 7:13-14
"These in white robes - who are they and where did they come from? These are THEY WHO HAVE COME OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION"

According to Your Word - AND NONE OTHER - come Lord Jesus!

My reply

Bless your heart. You can see that there will eventually be two groups of saints in heaven. It is easy to see that they are caught up to Heaven at two different times.


The first group, the First-Trump Rapture of I Thess 4:16,17, the Bride of Christ, will be caught up before Christ is given the seven-sealed book. Rev 4:1 says, "behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither."

Rev 5:8-10 says, "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders (4 + 24 = 28) fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they (i.e., the saints out of all 196 nations on Earth) sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God KINGS AND PRIESTS: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth."


The second group (I Cor 15:51-54), the 144,000 Israelites plus a great multitude that no one can number, Rev 7:9,14, will be caught up after the sixth seal is broken (Rev 6:12).


1. Rev 4:1: "Come up hither"
2. Rev 5:1: "I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with SEVEN SEALS."
3. Rev 5:7: Jesus "took the (seven-sealed) book"
4. Rev 5:9: saints caught up "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation", i.e., out of all 196 nations
5. Rev 6:1: Jesus "opened one of the seals"
6. Rev 6:12: "the SIXTH SEAL"
7. Rev 6:17: "the great DAY OF HIS WRATH is come"


8. Rev 7:14: "These...came out of GREAT TRIBULATION"
9. Rev 8:1: "SEVENTH SEAL...SILENCE IN HEAVEN" (AND ON EARTH, Hab 2:20) while the judge is being seated at the JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST (Hab_2:20 says, "But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the EARTH KEEP SILENCE before him.")
10. Rev 11:15 "the SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED...The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord" (i.e., Jesus is given his 1000-year Kingdom) Agape

My comments on:
"Biblical Analysis
Signs in the Heavens"

> > God said, Let there be lights in THE FIRMAMENT OF THE HEAVEN to divide the day from the night; and let them be for SIGNS...Gen 1:14

THE "FIRMAMENT OF THE HEAVEN", beginning with the SUN and ending with SATURN, was represented by the Temple candlestick/ lampstand (Josephus, a first-century Pharisee priest, Ant.III.VI.7). It represented (1) SUN, (2) Mercury, (3) Venus, (4) Earth, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter and (7) SATURN, THE HEAVEN OF HEAVENS. Saturn is both the 3rd heaven (counted from Earth) and the 7th heaven (counting the Sun).

De 10:14 says, "Behold, THE HEAVEN (i.e., Saturn) and THE HEAVEN (Saturn) OF HEAVENS (1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, 3. Saturn) is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is."

1Ki 8:27 says, "will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, THE HEAVEN (i.e., Saturn) AND HEAVEN (Saturn) OF HEAVENS (Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn) cannot contain thee".

Neh 9:6 says,"Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made HEAVEN (Saturn), THE HEAVEN (Saturn) OF HEAVENS (1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, 3. Saturn), with all their host, the EARTH (i.e., under the heavens), and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven (i.e., Saturn) worshippeth thee."

Psa_115:16 says, "THE HEAVEN (Saturn), EVEN THE HEAVENS (i.e., Mars, Jupiter and Saturn) are the LORD'S: but the EARTH hath he given to the children of men."

Eze_10:1 says, "Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament (expanse of space) that was above the head of the cherubims (i.e., the 4 terrestrial planets, Mercury, Venus, Earth [Eze 1:15] and Mars) there appeared over them (i.e., farther out in space) as it were (i.e., as if it were) A SAPPHIRE STONE (symbol of the 7th heavenly body, SATURN, including 1. Sun, 2. Mercury, 3. Venus, 4. Earth, 5. Mars, 6. Jupiter and 7. SATURN [Eze 29:17,21], symbol of our 3rd Heaven, SATURN), as the appearance of the likeness (symbolic language) of a throne" (of the God/man, Jesus Christ, Eze 1:1,26).


Eze 29:17,21 says, "in the FIRST MONTH, in the FIRST DAY of the month (Nisan 1), the WORD OF THE LORD (i.e., Jesus, John 1:1) CAME unto me, saying...21 In that day (Nisan 1) will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel (Jesus) to bud forth (i.e., THE SECOND ADVENT WILL BE ON NISAN 1), and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (i.e., the WORD, Jesus) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I (JESUS) am the LORD" (YHWH of hosts, Isa 44:6).

Eze_28:13 says, "Thou (Satan) hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone (i.e., in this Solar System, the Sun and planets) was thy covering (i.e., surroundings), the sardius (1. Sun), topaz (2. Mercury), and the diamond (3. Venus), the beryl (4. Earth), the onyx (5. Mars), and the jasper (6. Jupiter), THE SAPPHIRE (7, God's number of completion and perfection, SATURN), the emerald (8. Uranus), and the carbuncle (9. Neptune), and gold (10. Pluto)".


> > "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night showeth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.  Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. Psa 19:1-6"


Since the Sun and Moon are for signs, the Solar and Lunar eclipses should be major signs for our days.

> > These four Lunar Eclipses, tetrads, each having its own period of persecution, are associated with Jewish Holidays. There have been 7 (meaning completion) in the past 2000 years. The FINAL SECRET will happen on the Day of God's Wrath.

There will be an eclipse on the Eve of Trumpets, Sept 13, 2015. I think that Feast of Trumpets, Sept 14, 2015, will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord, the Day of God's Wrath.

> > September 11th 3 BC (Rosh Hashanah) View from Jerusalem
Note: New moon under the feet of the Virgin. (The Author thinks Jesus was born on Sept 11, 3 BC.)

I think Jesus was born on Tishri 1 in 5 BC. The sign of Rev 12 was in the sky on Sept 4, 5 BC. Herod died in 4 BC.

> > Passover Apr 3, 33 AD from Jerusalem
> > Day of the cross (Lunar Eclipse “Blood Moon”)

I think the Crucifixion was Nisan 13, 3790, April 6, 30 AD.

> > Tetrad

> > A celestial tetrad is a set of four sequential lunar eclipses. Occasionally these all fall on Jewish holidays. There have been 7 of these events in the past 2000 years.

There is one coming up in 2014/2015.

I think those in 2014 and 2015 point to the Day of God's Wrath, Sept 14, 2015.

> > There will be a series of 7 solar eclipses this decade.
And 3 sets of lunar eclipses.

> > In 2008, Pastor Mark Blitz of El Shaddai Ministries announced the discovery of Tetrad occurrences on the Jewish Holidays of Passover and Feast of Trumpets, shortly after the rebirth of Israel in 1949-1950, and again in 1967-1968 during the 6 Day War and recapture of Jerusalem. Pastor Blitz has also discovered a future Tetrad Eclipse sequence will recur on the Jewish Passover and Feast of Trumpets Holidays in 2014-2015. The Jewish Holiday Tetrad eclipse cycle is a rare phenomena, which prior to 1948, had not happened in over 500 years, and will not occur again until the next century.

When Pastor Mark Biltz found the tetrads, I thought they were surely signs of the end of the age. It is fitting since the Sun and Moon are signs.

> > Luke 21:25 (NKJV)
> > And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars

> > Isaiah 63:1-4
> > Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

I think the Day of Vengeance will be Sept 14, 2015. The Last-Trump Rapture will take place just before God's wrath hits Earth (Rev 6:17; 7:9,14, 8:1f).

> > Sabbath of Return
> > July-27-2018, 15th of Av -5778

I expect the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016. That day will be the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee Year. A Jubilee Year must be preceded by a Sabbatic Year. 5775 is a Sabbatic Year.

> > Yom Kippur: Once every 49 years the special Jubilee begins on the tenth day of the seventh month.

I think the Jubilee will be announced on Tishri 10, Sept 23, 2015 and start on the following Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016.

De 11:14 says, "I will give you the rain of your land in HIS DUE SEASON, the first rain and the latter rain".

Eze 29:17,21 says, "in the FIRST MONTH, in the FIRST DAY of the month (Nisan 1), the WORD OF THE LORD (i.e., Jesus, John 1:1) CAME unto me, saying...21 In that day (Nisan 1) will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel (Jesus) to bud forth (i.e., THE SECOND ADVENT WILL BE ON NISAN 1), and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (i.e., the WORD, Jesus) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I (JESUS) am the LORD" (YHWH of hosts, Isa 44:6).

Hos 6:3 says," Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, AS THE LATTER AND FORMER RAIN UNTO THE EARTH."

The first coming was as the former rain, on Tishri 1. The second coming will be as the latter rain, on Nisan 1.

> > Some have suggested that Jesus may have been born at the time of the Feast of Tabernacles.

I think Jesus was born as the former rain, Tishri 1. He was conceived on Kislev 24, so Tishri 1 fits much better than Tabernacles.

Hag 2:18 says, "Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev 24), even from the day that the foundation (i.e., Jesus, 1Co 3:11) of the LORD'S temple was laid (i.e., conceived), consider it. 19 Is THE SEED (Jesus, Gen 3:15) yet in the barn? (i.e., a saying meaning is she pregnant) yea (YES, and it's Kislev 24), as yet the vine (Jesus, John 15:5), and the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7), and the pomegranate, and the olive tree (Israel), hath not brought forth: from this day (i.e., Conception Day, Kislev 24) will I bless you."

1Co 3:11 says, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

In John 15:5, Jesus said, "I AM THE VINE, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

Joel 1:12 says, "The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the POMEGRANATE tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees (i.e., men) of the field (i.e., world, Mt 13:38), are withered (i.e., it is near the end of this age): because joy is withered away from the SONS OF MEN."

Mt 13:38 says, "THE FIELD IS THE WORLD; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one".

Rom 11:17,24 says, "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a WILD OLIVE TREE, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of THE OLIVE TREE"....24 For if thou wert cut out of THE OLIVE TREE which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into A GOOD OLIVE TREE: how much more shall these, which be THE NATURAL BRANCHES, BE GRAFFED INTO THEIR OWN OLIVE TREE?

> > Luke 21:25 These Things
> > And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

We have already seen terrible tsunamis, so our redemption is near.

My reply to a post on Five Doves site


I'm interested. I've spent lots of time on it.

> > Counting from April 2/3, 33 A. D. back 12,432 days lands one on March 19/20, 1 B. C. That is the Spring equinox of that year, and the date of his CONCEPTION. It is then a matter of counting forward 280 days to the day of His birth. That date is DECEMBER 24/25, of 1 B. C.


I think the Bible tells us the day of Jesus' conception, Kislev 24. See what you think.

Hag 2:18,19 says, "CONSIDER (lit., take to heart) now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (i.e., Kislev 24), even from the day that the foundation (i.e., Jesus, no other foundation can be laid than Jesus) of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider it. 19 Is THE SEED (i.e., Jesus) yet in the barn? (a saying meaning is she pregnant) yea (YES), as yet the vine, and the fig tree, and the pomegranate, and the olive tree, hath not brought forth: from this day (Kislev 24, Conception Day) will I bless you."


I think Jesus was born on Tishri 1 in 5 BC (before Herod died near Passover in 4 BC) and was crucified on Thursday (the preparation of the Passover) Nisan 13, 3790, April 6, 30 AD (Julian).


Forty means testing and probation, and the Temple was burned in 70 AD, 40 years after the Crucifixion in 30 AD.

Herod started building the Temple in 19/20 BC. It was 46 years in building on The first Passover of Jesus' ministry, in 27 AD.


Jesus, having just become 30 on Tishri 1, in 27 AD, stood up in the Synagogue on the Day of Atonement and read from Isa 61 to announce that 28 AD would be a Jubilee Year.

Of that day, Luke 4:15-21 says, "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to SET AT LIBERTY (i.e., 28 AD was the JUBILEE) them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord (i.e., the Jubilee). 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, THIS DAY IS THIS SCRIPTURE FULFILLED IN YOUR EARS."

In figuring the 15th year of Tiberius, remember that Tiberius was Co-Rex with Augustus in 12 AD. I found a coin minted in 13 AD that had the head of Augustus on one side and the head of Tiberius on the other side. The 15th year of Tiberius was 26 AD, the year of Jesus' baptism. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re:

In your discussion about Cheshvan 17, you've cited:

Gen 7:11 says, "IN THE SECOND MONTH, THE SEVENTEENTH DAY of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and THE WINDOWS OF HEAVEN WERE OPENED."

I believe that the phrase 'the windows of heaven were opened' refers, in the first instance, to the collapse of a water vapor canopy surrounding the earth. My first exposure to this concept was, as I recall, in the book by Dr. Henry Morris, The Genesis Flood. In the second instance, we believe that it will apply to the Rapture of the Saints.

What about the phrase 'were all the fountains of the great deep broken up'? In the first instance, my understanding is that there were great reservoirs of water beneath the Earth's surface which erupted and contributed to the worldwide flood.

Is it possible that there's an application of that phrase with regard to the second fulfillment as well? Could it mean a breaking up of the Earth's crust (earthquakes?) resulting in a worldwide release of lava and fire?

Does scripture not teach that the world was first destroyed by water, and at the end, by fire? Perhaps the comet Wormwood striking the Earth would be the catalyst?

What are your thoughts on this matter?

My reply

I believe that there are great reservoirs of water beneath the Earth's surface. Giant underground aquifers furnish water to the population. We drill wells to obtain it, or take advantage of natural springs.

I just found something interesting:
"The subterranean Amazon: Mighty river found flowing 13,000ft below ground"

Underground sibling is same length as South American wonder

By Claire Bates, 26th August 2011

Wow! I have watched a man on TV trying to find the largest catfish in a river, which I think was the Amazon, to see if a catfish could have swallowed a man who disappeared in the river. It was mentioned that there might be a deep place, maybe 300 ft down, in the river where there was a multiplication of species different than those in the river above. Now, I wonder if this ties in with the river 13,000 ft below ground. It sounds possible to me.

> > I believe that the phrase 'the windows of heaven were opened' refers, in the first instance, to the collapse of a water vapor canopy surrounding the earth.

I agree. It had not rained until that time, and a mist went up to water the vegetation.

> > Does scripture not teach that the world was first destroyed by water, and at the end, by fire?


> > Perhaps the comet Wormwood striking the Earth would be the catalyst?

Yes, and it will form the Lake of Fire, which will never be quenched. Besides fire, Israel will get hit by a tsunami from the asteroid as big as a mountain impacting the Mediterranean Sea.

Hope the Rapture will be on the upcoming Feast of Trumpets. Agape

See what you think of this video of Obama quoting the Bible on 9 11 11.

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