Pro and Con 1633

Posted 10-11-2011

Proposed New World Order Silver Coin

September 29, 2011

Besides the ten world regions, it has 666 on it!

"Side 2 (Reverse):
text along top: "TEN WORLD REGIONS"
text along bottom: "POST-CHANGE 8TH IS 666"
What does the latter mean?


By Marilyn Agee

It looks like the date of the First-Trump Rapture was only meant to be understood in the last year, and that year, 5772, began Sept. 29, 2011.


Look what 1Peter 1:3-5 says! "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us AGAIN unto a LIVELY HOPE (i.e., 'that BLESSED HOPE, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ,' Titus 2:13) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an INHERITANCE incorruptible, and undefiled, and THAT FADETH NOT AWAY, reserved IN HEAVEN for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME" (i.e., the last YEAR, as in Dan 7:25, which gives us the key to understanding).

The "time (1 year) and times (2 years) and the dividing of time" (1/2 a year) of Dan 7:25 equals 3.5 years. Therefore, the "LAST TIME" in I Peter 1:5 indicates the LAST YEAR, which now seems to be 5772.


1John 2:18 says, "Little children, IT IS THE LAST TIME: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists (including our OPENLY MUSLIM PRESIDENT that said, 'My Muslim faith," something that has never happened before); WHEREBY WE KNOW THAT IT IS THE LAST TIME" (i.e., THE LAST YEAR).

Jude 1:18 says, "they told you there should be mockers in the LAST TIME (year), who should walk after their own ungodly lusts."

1Peter 1:6-13 says, "Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations (i.e., Satan will try his best now that we are down to the wire): 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory AT THE APPEARING OF JESUS CHRIST (i.e., at the First-Trump Rapture): 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving THE END of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 SEARCHING what, or what manner of TIME the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but UNTO US they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and HOPE TO THE END for the grace that is to be brought unto you AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST".

This is "THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST (Rev 1:1), which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must SHORTLY (i.e., it could be VERY SHORTLY NOW!) come to pass."

Rev 1:3 says, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep (tereo, to fulfil a command, i.e., the 'Come up hither') those things which are written therein: for THE TIME (i.e., of the REVEALING OF CHRIST AT THE RAPTURE) IS AT HAND."

"THE TIME IS AT HAND" is stated in both the first and last chapters of The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Rev 22:10 echoes, "the time is at hand." It is the time of the Rapture that is at hand. Rev 22:20 says, "Surely I come quickly." He comes quickly at the Rapture. Every eye will not see him until the Second Advent, probably the first day of the Jubilee year, Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, to be announced on the previous 10th day of the seventh month, the Day of Atonement, Tishri 10, 5776, Sept. 23, 2015.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is written specifically for us, the generation living when the Rapture takes place. All things are ready. I think it's almost hold your breath time. It looks like Christ is about to appear.

To get us properly oriented, Jesus said in Rev 1:8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning (i.e., LORD of the Old Testament) and the ending (Lord of the New Testament), saith the Lord, which is (at the Rapture), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), the Almighty."

In the PREVIEW of the Rapture in Rev 1:9-12, John said, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion IN TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos (i.e., which means mortal), for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was (lit., became) in the Spirit (i.e., he was quickly transferred to Heaven) on the Lord's day (i.e., the Day of Christ), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first (LORD of the Old Testament) and the last (Lord of the New Testament) ...12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks (i.e., the seven churches, v. 20, now in heaven); 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one (i.e., Christ) like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle (gold is a symbol of deity). 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow (as in Dan 7:9, when 'the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool'); and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass (i.e., brass stands for judgment), as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars (i.e., the angels of the 7 churches he has just raptured): and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword (i.e., to cut off the foolish Laodicean virgins and nonbelievers): and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead (i.e., which John really is now). And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first (i.e., LORD of the Old Testament) AND the last (Lord of the New Testament): 18 I am he (i.e., Jesus) that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 19 Write the things which thou hast seen (i.e., before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the time of the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter (after the Rapture). 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." The overcomers of all seven church groups will be in Heaven after the Rapture.

In Rev 4:1, John elaborated on what he said in the PREVIEW of the Rapture. He said, "I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither".


We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit, and the Temple was dedicated by Solomon on Tabernacles.

Which day of Tabernacles? John 6:39 says, "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should RAISE IT UP AGAIN AT THE LAST DAY."


1 Kings 8:2, the dedication was on "the feast in the month Ethanim (or Tishri), which is the SEVENTH MONTH."

2 Chr. 5:3 agrees. It says, "Wherefore all the men of Israel assembled themselves unto the king in the feast which was in THE SEVENTH MONTH."

Solomon held the feast for two weeks, but he sent the people away on the eighth day. Why? That may stand for the Rapture on the eighth day of Tabernacles, which will be Thursday, Oct 20, 2011.

Who got the word that it would happen on Thursday? I think someone posted that on Five Doves.

1Ki 8:65,66 says, "at that time Solomon held a feast, and all Israel with him, a great congregation, from the entering in of Hamath unto the river of Egypt, before the LORD our God, seven days and seven days, even fourteen days. ON THE EIGHTH DAY HE SENT THE PEOPLE AWAY: and they blessed the king, and went unto their tents joyful and glad of heart". Doesn't the eighth day represent the Rapture?

Many offerings were given at the Temple on the Feast of Tabernacles. 2Ch 8:12-16 says, "Then Solomon offered burnt offerings unto the LORD on the altar of the LORD, which he had built before the porch, 13 Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and IN THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES. 14 And he appointed, according to the order of David his father, the courses of the priests to their service, and the Levites to their charges, to praise and minister before the priests, as the duty of every day required: the porters also by their courses at every gate: for so had David the man of God commanded."

2Ch 8:15,16 says, "And they departed not from the commandment of the king unto the priests and Levites concerning any matter, or concerning the treasures. Now all the work of Solomon was prepared unto the day of the foundation of the house of the LORD, and until it was FINISHED. So the house of the LORD was perfected.

John 6:40 says, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY."

The First-Trump Rapture may be on the last day of Tabernacles, Thursday, Oct. 20, 2011. The Last-Trump Rapture will be on the Feast of Trumpets, probably Monday, Sept. 14, 2015. I think that is the Day of God's Wrath, the great and terrible Day of the Lord, the time of Jacob's trouble.

John 6:44 says, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY" (that could be the 8th day of Tabernacles).

The last day sure is emphasized. John 6:54 says, "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY."

John 7:37 says, "In the LAST DAY, that great day of the feast (i.e., the 8th day of Tabernacles), Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him COME UNTO ME (i.e., at the Rapture?), and drink." That is the day the Jews pray for rain so their crops can be planted.

John 11:24 says, "Martha saith unto him, I know that he (Lazarus) shall rise again in THE RESURRECTION AT THE LAST DAY" (i.e., that could be the last day of Tabernacles).

John 12:48 says, "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in THE LAST DAY" (maybe the 8th day of Tabernacles).

It looks to me like the Rapture is pictured by the eighth day of Tabernacles, when the people went home. Our home is Heaven.

Regarding brethren, believers, the "fruit of the earth", James_5:7 says, "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the COMING OF THE LORD. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain." The early or former rain, starts on Tishri 1, date of Jesus birth. The latter rain starts on Nisan 1, date of the Second Advent.

Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24 and born on the following Tishri 1. I think he will return on Nisan 1, the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee years.

Haggai 2:18,19 says, "Consider (i.e., take it to heart) now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, even from the day that the foundation (Jesus Christ) of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider it. 19 Is the seed (Jesus, Gen 3:15) yet in the barn? (a saying for is she pregnant) yea (YES), as yet the vine (Christ), and the fig tree (Israel), and the pomegranate, and the olive tree (with us grafted in), hath not brought forth: from this day (Kislev 24, Conception Day) will I bless you."

The Jubilee Year is announced on the Day of Atonement, the 10th day of the seventh month, but it begins on the following Nisan 1, the first day of the first month of the Jubilee Year.

I expect the announcement of the coming Jubilee Year on the Day of Atonement, Tishri 10, 5776, Sept 23, 2015. I think the Second Coming will be on the following Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee Years.

Jer 5:24 says, "Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former (starting Tishri 1) and the latter (starting Nisan 1), in HIS season: HE RESERVETH UNTO US THE APPOINTED WEEKS OF THE HARVEST." The Church was born on the Feast of Weeks, Pentecost. Its harvest seems to be on Tabernacles, one of the three Feasts when all males were to go UP TO JERUSALEM.

Hosea 6:3 says, "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth."

Joel 2:23 says, "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month." Tishri is the first month of the Civil Year. Nisan is the first month of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee Years. The Jubilee Year is announced on the previous Day of Atonement, but it begins on the first day of the first month, Nisan.

Since the Day of Atonement reflects Christ's sacrifice to atone for the sins of believers, the First-Trump Rapture would be fitting on the 8th day of Tabernacles.

The wheat harvest is in by that time. The tares have been bundled into the 10 regions of the world, but the 10 kings have not yet received their kingdom.

Rev 17:12-14 says, "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast (i.e., the False Prophet). 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they (i.e., the raptured saints) that ARE with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

The raptured saints are with Christ when the 6th head of the great red dragon in in power. I think he will be a Pope, head of the Ecclesiastical Roman Empire that replaced the Holy Roman Empire.

In Rev 17:10, the five empires that have fallen are Babel, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece and the Holy Roman Empire. The one that "IS" in power at the time of the Rapture is the Ecclesiastical Roman Empire. The one that is yet to come is Babylon III. It will end up where the first world empire started, at Babel/Babylon in the plain of Shinar near the Euphrates.

The pattern. On the first day of Tabernacles, the people are to leave their earthly homes, go to Heaven, and stay there 7 days. That seems to represent our going to Heaven in the Rapture and then returning with Christ at the Second Advent.

Lev 23:36 says, "Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the EIGHTH DAY shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a SOLEMN ASSEMBLY; and ye shall do no servile work therein."


Heb 12:22-28 says, "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear".

Num 10:2-4 says, "Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest USE THEM FOR THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY, AND FOR THE JOURNEYING OF THE CAMPS. 3 And when they shall blow with them (i.e., both), all the assembly (i.e., including the Tribulation saints) shall assemble themselves to thee at the door (symbol of a Rapture, as in Rev 3:8) of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with ONE trumpet, then the princes (i.e., the 24 elders, Rev 4:4), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

When the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles of Israel, John included, sit on their thrones before God is just after the First-Trump Rapture of I Thess 4:16,17 and Rev 4:1.

Could that be the first day of Tabernacles? They blow a trumpet on the first day of every feast, but do they blow a trumpet on the 8th day of Tabernacles?

Yes. 2Ch 5:12,13 says, "Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with TRUMPETS:) 13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the TRUMPETS and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD".

John 7:37 says, "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him COME UNTO ME, and drink.".

In Mirrors in Time: A Psycho-Spiritual Journey through the Jewish Year (p.241-242), Joel Ziff said, "Shemini Atzeret, then, represents the completion of one cycle, and the beginning of another NEW cycle, according to God's Plan. It represents a NEW BEGINNING."

The Rapture will be a day of going home and a new beginning.

"Shemini Atzeret," literally means "The Eighth Assembly." That's perfect since eight means new beginning.

In the days of Noah, eight souls were saved by water. That 8 also makes the 8th day of Tabernacles seem perfect for the Rapture. It is as the days of Noah.

At the Feast of Tabernacles, water was brought from the Pool of Siloam and poured into a basin on the altar. On the eighth day trumpets were blown and Isaiah 12:3 was sung: "Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation."

The Transfiguration may tie in for in Mt 17:4 "Peter said to Jesus, 'Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters – one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah."

Both the dead and alive join Jesus and are transformed. Old Testament saints and New Testament saints are together during this event as represented by Moses, Elijah, and the three disciples. Although they are not in the air, they are on a “high mountain.” (Mt 17:1.) A cloud envelopes them and they are with the Lord in the clouds. The voice of God is heard too, and we know from Rev 1:10 and 4:1 that the voice of God is like the sound of a trumpet.

Not until halfway through the Feast did Jesus go up to the temple courts and begin to teach.” John 7:6-14.

John 7:37,38 says, “In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him COME UNTO ME, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

"COME UNTO ME" sure sounds like the Rapture. I'm hoping that it will be soon.

A post on Five Doves

Guy Schwartz (30 Sep 2011)

Have you guys ever considered our translation or understanding of this verse, 2 Thess. 2:3 might be wrong or negative, therefore the cause of this misunderstanding? Could this verse be saying the rapture has to happen first (not a falling away of faith, as so many teach)? Check this out, and investigate it: The Greek noun apostasia comes from the root verb aphestimi, meaning "to go away, depart, to remove." The word aphestimi is used fifteen times in the Bible. Eleven times it is translated depart and refers only once to departing from faith. Eight times it is used as a departure from a person or a place, according to W.E. Vines Dictionary of Greek Words (page 297, number 20).

While the primary meaning of apostasia alludes to a rebellion from truth, there is a secondary meaning. According to the Liddell and Scott Classical Lexicon, the second meaning of apostasia is "a departing, or a disappearance."

Before the 1611 King James translation, most of the Bibles translated the phrase "falling away" as "the departing." The following men translated falling away as departure: Lineberry, B.A., Cloverdale (1535), Crammer (1539), Robert Baker (1615), Beza (1565), John Dawson, A.B. says "apostasia" means "a departure from any place." Robert Scott (1811-1887) gives the second meaning of apostasia as "departure, disappearance." And any of you who have done a serious study of translations know that the KJV is not 'perfect' in all it's Greek translations, as Chinese scholar Watchman Nee found out.

Kenneth Wuest, world renowned Greek scholar translates 2 Thess. 2:3 as follows: "Do not allow anyone to lead you astray in any way, because that day shall not come (Second Coming of Christ) except the aforermentioned departure (rapture of the church to heaven) comes first, AND the man of lawlessness is disclosed (in his true identity), the man of perdition ..." (The New Testament - An Expanded Translation by Wuest)

The context of the scripture determines the meaning of the word. Wuest points out that if Paul were talking about doctrine in 2 Thess. 2, one could say he was alluding to a huge revolt or defection from the truth that would happen before the man of sin was revealed. Yet, Paul reminded them "when I was with you I told you these things." When Paul came back from Mt. Sinai (Arabia) and meeting Jesus in person (Gal. 1:12-17), he received the revelation directly from Jesus Christ (see this page) about the Rapture. He told the church of Thessalonica FIRST, of this previous mystery - the catching away (rapture) of the church. A mystery is something that was hidden to the people in the past (Old Testament crowd), but is NOW being revealed. The mystery of the Rapture, and salvation being offered to the Gentiles, was given to Paul to announce. A false letter was being circulated as to be from Paul, so he wrote again to that church to warn them - I didn't say that (that the Lord had already returned). His first letter (1 Thess. 4:16,17) contained the Rapture revelation. Wuest and other Greek scholars believe Paul was saying that this man of sin (antichrist) could not be revealed until there was first a departing of the church to heaven (rapture event)!

My reply

Thanks much for your post.

> > The Greek noun apostasia comes from the root verb aphestimi, meaning "to go away, depart, to remove." The word aphestimi is used fifteen times in the Bible. Eleven times it is translated depart and refers only once to departing from faith. Eight times it is used as a departure from a person or a place, according to W.E. Vines Dictionary of Greek Words (page 297, number 20).

> > While the primary meaning of apostasia alludes to a rebellion from truth, there is a secondary meaning. According to the Liddell and Scott Classical Lexicon, the second meaning of apostasia is "a departing, or a disappearance."

I think "apostasia" in 2Thess 2:3 should be translated "departure." The older Bibles had it right. The KJV was the first to get that wrong. Sadly, several modern versions have followed the KJV.

In the Geneva Bible, the "day of Christ" should be "day of the Lord", another mistake in this passage. Older manuscripts were found after the KJV was translated, the Sinaitic Codex (331 AD), the Alexandrine Codex (1078) and the Vatican Codex (1475 or 1481). All three have "day of the Lord".

The Day of Christ is the day of the First-Trump Rapture of I Thess 4:16,17, and the Day of the Lord is the day of the Last-Trump Rapture of I Cor 15:51,52 and the Day of God's Wrath.

2Th 2:2,3 in the Geneva Bible says, "That ye be not suddenly mooued from your minde, nor troubled neither by spirit, nor by worde, nor by letter, as it were from vs, as though the day of Christ (should be day of the Lord) were at hand. Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day (i.e., the Day of the Lord) shall not come, except there come a DEPARTING first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition" (emphasis mine). Agape

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