Pro and Con 1637

Posted 11-14-2011


My reply to an email (omitted)

I think the Rapture will be the first day of Hanukkah, the Feast of Dedication, the Feast of Lights, the first day of winter, Dec 21, 2011.

John 10:22 says, "And it was at Jerusalem THE FEAST OF THE DEDICATION, and IT WAS WINTER (i.e., Dec 21, 2011). 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch."

We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Solomon's porch was a colonade in front of the Temple, on the eastern edge of the platform.

In Haggai 2:15,18,19, Kislev 24 is Jesus' conception day. Then it mentions that day and UPWARD, i.e., Kislev 25, which is Dec 21, i.e., first day of winter this year. Verse 19 ends with "FROM this day I will bless you." FROM Kislev 24 is Kislev 25. Agape

My reply to an email (omitted)

I think the Rapture will be the first day of Hanukkah, (the Feast of Dedication), the first day of winter, Dec 21, 2011.

We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Solomon's porch was a colonade in front of the Temple, on the eastern edge of the platform.

In Haggai 2:15,18,19, Kislev 24 is Jesus' conception day. Then it mentions that day and UPWARD, i.e., Kislev 25, which is our Dec 21, first day of winter this year. Verse 19 ends with "FROM this day I will bless you." From Kislev 24 is Kislev 25. Agape

A post on Five Doves site

I was reading Haggai again this morning and saw the date the 24th day of the 6th month, as the date that Zerubbabel and Joshua and all the people with them came to work on the temple, to rebuild it. I was curious if anything happened on September 20, 2011 as this is 3 months earlier than the December 20 date of Kislev 24 that we have been discussing. September 20, 2011 was the date the Palestinians applied to the UN for a vote on statehood.

I find this very telling. In one case, they are rebuilding, and in this case, we have mankind attempting to tear down the country of Israel. Just wanted to pass this on to you! In Christ, Doran

My reply

Thanks for reminding me that there is another date in Haggai, Elul 24, three months before Jesus' Conception Day, Kislev 24 (Haggai 2:18,19). The Jews sound the trumpet on Elul 24, as they do on all but one, the Eve of Trumpets, of the last 40 days preceeding the Feast of Trumpets.

Having been in the band in High School, those trumpet sounds before the Feast remind me of that certain type of drum roll that introduces a piece of music for a marching band so everyone will get ready and start together.

On the Feast of Trumpets, the Jews blow the trumpet 100 times. This could announce that Christ is coming for us soon. They blow what is called the "last trump" on the Feast of Trumpets and the "great trump" on the Day of Atonement. Is that our signal to get ready?

I want to think this through again and see if I can think of any other things that could tie in.

During Sukkot, Tabernacles, the people live in temporary booths for 7 days. The 1st day and Shemini Atzeret, "the Eighth (day) of Assembly", also called Simchat Torah, which means "Rejoicing in the Torah." This marks the completion of the annual cycle of weekly Torah readings. The first and 8th day are Sabbaths. Therefore, I assume the people go home on the 9th. Is going home a signal that the Lord is going to take us home soon? It could be.

Wed, 21 December 2011 = 25th of Kislev, 5772, first day of Hanukkah and what is considered the first day of winter.

Are we living in temporary homes right now, because we are going to our heavenly home on Wed, Kislev 25, 5772, Dec 21, 2011, the first day of Hanukkah? That's the FEAST OF LIGHTS, The lights are probably the wise virgins with oil in their lamps and extra oil that lasts 8 days.

Are we going to live in temporary shelters 7 days, keep a Holy Convocation on the 8th day (Wed, Dec 28), then go to our own mansions on the 9th day (Thu, Dec 29)? It seems possible. However, 7 means completion, 8 means new order and 9 means judgment. To me, that doesn't sound as good as Dec 21, first day of Hanukkah.

John 10:22,23 says, "And it was at Jerusalem THE FEAST OF THE DEDICATION (HANUKKAH), AND IT WAS WINTER. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple".

We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit, and Dec 21 is considered the first day of winter. This date seems more probable, and Hanukkah is not always on Dec 21. That raises the odds. I'm hoping we will go to New Jerusalem on Dec 21, 2011, Kislev 25, 5772 (not Kislev 24).

In John 4:35, Jesus said, "Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

Since this is not a Jewish Leap Year, those four months could be Teveth, Shevat, Adar I and Nisan. Next Year is not a Leap Year, either, but this year seems better.

I had two dreams of Heaven, but no Rapture date clue. In one, I saw Ed's grandmother in a kitchen cooking. There were children all around her. That rang true, she loved cooking and children.

In the other dream of Heaven, Ed and I had just arrived, so the Rapture had just taken place. We were walking toward a large doorway in a huge warehouse type building with aluminum siding. A boy I had introduced to Christ ran up to Ed and I and hugged me.

A soldier in Viet Nam, he had just accepted Christ, and sent me a letter signed "Your son in Christ". I got the letter then was notified that he was killed when he stepped on a mine. Whew! he barely made it.

In my dream, he disappeared in the crowd, then Ed and I entered a huge doorway into the building. Long tables with white tablecloths and picnic benches were just about everywhere. There were outside aisles and a center aisle. Across the front were large dining room tables with white tablecloths. I assumed they had dining room chairs.

Ed and I sat down a few rows up on the right side. After everyone was seated, we were served food. I wondered where that boy I knew was sitting. I didn't see another familiar face anywhere. I turned around to look for salt and saw him back a couple of rows on the other side of the aisle. Then my dream ended.

I assume that it was to show me that he truly made it to heaven. I had an earlier dream of him going up in the air wearing golden shoes, so I assumed he made it, but this dream made me sure he did.

Ed is very weak, and dreams things that haven't happened, but because of my dream, I think he will make it to the Rapture. That's another reason I think it will be this year. My other clue is my eyesight. I now have cataracts in both eyes. Long ago, because I wanted to study the Bible, I had prayed that if I had to lose something, let it be my hearing, not my eyes. Ed was after me to get the cataracts taken off surgically, he did but it didn't help. I think I will get through without having to have that done. My daughter got me a wide-screen monitor. That helps tremendously. I use a magnifier to read mail. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: A book you might want to read

I think you will find this of interest:

Amazing find and very interesting book. This will tell you the actual date of Yeshua’s birth based upon the original Gospels.
"Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book." Rev 22:7

My reply

Re: A book you might want to read

Thanks for the tip. I'm very interested, but since I can't pay all my bills, I can't buy a book. Therefore, I searched for information on Google and found what could be the most interesting. Emphasis is mine.

"Washington Codex-Fifth century or perhaps late fourth. This is a most fascinating codex containing Deuteronomy, Joshua, the Gospels, and the Pauline epistles, with two small lacunas in the Gospels".... (i.e., a lacuna is a place where something is missing in a piece of writing)

"Not to be found in any other manuscript is the following right after Mark 16:14, which in the KJV says, "Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen."

"And they replied saying, 'THIS AGE OF LAWLESSNESS AND UNBELIEF IS UNDER SATAN who by means of unclean spirit does not allow men to comprehend the true power of God; therefore reveal now Thy righteousness.' Thus they spoke to Christ; and Christ answered them, 'THE LIMIT OF THE YEARS OF THE AUTHORITY OF SATAN IS FULFILLED; but other horrors draw near and for the sake of them that sinned was I delivered unto death that they might return to the truth and sin no more; that they might inherit the spiritual and incorruptible glory of righteousness which is in heaven.'"

The above quote is from: The fourth edition of the Gospel Parallels by Burton H. Throckmortan, Jr. published by Thomas Nelson Publishing, ISBN number 0-847-5150-8, p.ix (emphasis is mine)

Another translation says, "‘THE TERM OF YEARS OF SATAN'S POWER HAS BEEN FULFILLED". (Trans. from Metzger, Textual Commentary, p. 104.)

"This text is not found in any other manuscript, but was partially quoted by Jerome." OF THE BIRTH AND CRUCIFIXION OF CHRIST


Re the Washington Codex, Wikipedia also says, "Earlier analysts failed additionally to recognize that each of these Gospels tells the exact year of Jesus’ Birth (750 AUC, our 4 BC) as well as the exact year of Jesus’ Crucifixion (784 AUC, our 30 AD). No longer is it necessary to speculate about any of these matters."

I disagree with 4 BC for the birth of Jesus. The writer probably missed the significance of Haggai 2:18,19. It gives the date of Jesus' conception, Kislev 24, and tells us to take it to heart. That's what "sum lebab" means. It is translated in the KJV as "consider". We are told more than once to consider Kislev 24.

I agree with 30 AD for the Crucifixion, but don't see how 4 BC could be the date of his birth. Herod died between the eclipse of March 13 and the Passover of April 11, 4 BC. Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24 (Haggai 2:18,19). Therefore, he was born on Tishri 1. The Feast of Trumpets that preceeded March 13, 4 BC was Sept 4, 5 BC.

Hag 2:18,19 says, "Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev), even from the day that the foundation (Jesus, there is no other foundation, (I Cor 3:11) of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider it. 19 Is the seed (Jesus, Gen 3:15) yet in the barn? (a saying, meaning is she pregnant) yea (YES), as yet the vine (Jesus), and the fig tree (Israel), and the pomegranate (meaning upright), and the olive tree (Israel with the saved Gentiles grafted in), hath not brought forth: from this day (Kislev 24) will I bless you."

24th of Kislev, 5772 (Eve of Hanukkah) = Wed, 20 December 2011. Thursday, 21 December, 2011 (Kislev 25) is the first day of Hanukkah. It lasts 8 days, Dec 20 through 28, 2011.

The Rapture is as the days of Noah. The Lord shut the door of the Ark on Cheshvan 17, then it rained 40 days. Cheshvan 17, 5772, is Mon Nov 14, 2011. Forty days later is Sat Dec 24, 2011, Christmas Eve and the 4th day of Hanukkah. The Rapture might take place on Nov 14 or Dec 24, 2011. We will have to wait and see, but be sure to be ready.

Mt 24:38,39 says, "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark (i.e., on Cheshvan 17), 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away (airo hapas, TO TAKE EVERYONE UP); SO SHALL ALSO THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE." That rain lasted 40 days. At that point, the Ark was as high as it was going to get. Maybe at the end of 40 days, we will be in Heaven.

Forty days later is Sat Dec 24, 2011, Christmas Eve and the 4th day of Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, the Feast of Dedication. Will we be in heaven for Christmas? It seems possible. Maybe there is more to Christmas than we thought.

However, it could be when the Lord closed the door on Cheshvan 17, because door is a sign of the Rapture (Rev 3:8). Cheshvan 17 is Mon Nov 14, 2011. Either day seems possible. What a day that will be. We will be young again, with flesh as fresh as a child's. Praise the Lord. Agape

The Freer Logion

I have been researching the Washington Codex, oldest manuscript of the Bible.

Of particular interest is the "Freer Logion" found at the end of the manuscript between 16:14 and 16:15.

It says, "And they excused themselves, saying: This age of lawlessness and unbelief is under Satan, who does not allow the truth and power of God to prevail over the unclean things dominated by the spirits.[27] Therefore reveal your righteousness now.' They spoke to Christ. And Christ responded to them, "The limit of the years of Satan's power is completed, but other terrible things draw near. And for those who sinned I was handed over to death, that they might return to the truth and no longer sin, in order that they might inherit the spiritual and incorruptible heavenly glory of righteousness."

Does anyone know what this means? "The limit of the years of Satan's power is completed". Satan is still active today, but is he less powerful than he was then?

My research on the Washington Codex

"This ancient Bible manuscript known by such names as:
-Codex Washingtonensis-
-Washington Codex-
-Freer Gospels-
-Codex W-"


"We can now see covertly (yet still adequately recognizable) Aramaic alpha-numerically expressed dates of composition, and scribal-church community locations of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John!" ( "The codex is a book of 187 leaves of 20.5–21 cm by 13-14.5 cm with painted wooden covers, consisting of 26 quires (four to eight leaves).[2]
The text is written in one column per page, 30 lines per page.[1] There are numerous corrections made by the original scribe and a few corrections dating to the late fifth or sixth century. John 1:1-5:11 is a replacement of a presumably damaged folio, and dates to around the seventh century. It is missing Mark 15:13-38 and John 14:26-16:7. The ink is dark brown. The words are written continuously without separation. Accents are absent. The rough breathing is used very rarely.

Like in Codex Bezae the Gospels follow in Western order: Matthew, John, Luke, Mark."

Rel 101: Understanding the Bible: Manuscripts
"Washington Codex - Fifth or perhaps late fourth century. Includes Deuteronomy, Joshua, the Gospels, and the letters of Paul."

The Washington codex of the minor prophets
Encyclopaedia entry about the historical document "The Washington codex of the minor prophets". The papyrus codex contains one of the oldest complete copies of the Greek text of the Minor Prophets.

Washington Codex Missing Mark 15:13-38 and John 14:25-16:7

Washington Manuscript II - The Psalms (Codex Washingtonensis) › Collections › Biblical Manuscripts
Washington Manuscript V - The Minor Prophets ... › Collections › Biblical Manuscripts
Washington Manuscript V - The Minor Prophets (Codex Washingtonensis). mid-3rd century.

I had searched on Google for "Washington Codex date of birth of Jesus." Some curious statements turned up at different URLs.

First century gospels found!

Washington Codex manuscripts of the four gospels were penned and dated in the in the first century A.D.

"Bible Cognition Research Article:
Bible History & Translation page 5...
Washington Codex... Let us guide you to some interesting and mouth opening data from and we quote Dr. Lee W. Woodard from his site address above:...

"Previous scholars also made incredibly inaccurate and inadequate assessment that this Codex gives no indication of dates. Those analysts overlooked what are readily reacognizable, even though Covert, multiplicity of First Century AD Aramaic Presentations of specific dates for each Manuscript within that Bound Collector's Edition of First Century AD Gospels."

"Those earlier fellows failed additionally to recognize that each of these Gospels tells the exact year of Jesus' Birth (750 AUC, our 3 BC) as well as the exact year of Jesus Crucifixion (784 AUC, Our 31 AD). No longer is it necessary to speculate about any of these matters."...

"For more on the Washington Codex and to order Dr. Woodard's book go to: http"//

At that point, I decided to do some more research on the dates.

At it said, "Codex W is the first and only set of First Century A.D. Gospel Namesake Authorized and Issued manuscripts of the Four Gospels."


I agree with the Crucifixion in 30 AD, but feel certain that Jesus was born in 5 BC.

I found different dates mentioned on different web sites. If they are so exact, how could they differ?
Dr. Lee W. Woodard told a different story at this site. He said, "Those earlier fellows failed additionally to recognize that each of these Gospels tells the exact year of Jesus' Birth (750 AUC, our 3 BC) as well as the exact year of Jesus Crucifixion (784 AUC, Our 31 AD). No longer is it necessary to speculate about any of these matters."

"Jesus' Birth (750 AUC, our 3 BC) as well as the exact year of Jesus Crucifixion (784 AUC, Our 31 AD)" didn't seem right to me. I think Jesus was born in 5 BC and was crucified in 30 AD.

I found out that 750 AUC is really 4 BC, not 3 BC, but 784 AUC is 31 AD. That's just not the year of the Crucifixion.

To me, Jesus was born in 749 AUC/5 BC, and he was crucified in 783 AUC/30 AD.

I thought something is wrong with both of those dates I found on the Internet. I'm not used to figuring AUC though.

Before I go any farther, I think that some of this discrepency could have been because they didn't know that Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24 (Haggai 2:18,19) and born on the following Tishri 1. This put his birth on Tishri 1 (Sept 4, 5 BC) that preceeded the eclipse of March 13, 4 BC. Herod died after this eclipse and before Passover in 4 BC.

I went to Calendar Converter at" and found out that "The year 1 B.C. is the same as the year 753 A.U.C., and the year 1 A.D. is the same as the year 754 A.U.C." I trust this Converter and have used it a lot.

I made this list to keep my head straight.

30 AD = 783 AUC Jesus crucified
29 AD = 782 AUC
28 AD = 781 AUC
27 AD = 780 AUC
26 AD = 779 AUC
25 AD = 778 AUC
24 AD = 777 AUC
23 AD = 776 AUC
22 AD = 775 AUC
21 AD = 774 AUC
20 AD = 773 AUC
19 AD = 772 AUC
18 AD = 771 AUC
17 AD = 770 AUC
16 AD = 769 AUC
15 AD = 768 AUC
14 AD = 767 AUC
13 AD = 766 AUC
12 AD = 765 AUC
11 AD = 764 AUC
10 AD = 763 AUC
9 AD = 762 AUC
8 AD = 761 AUC
7 AD = 760 AUC
6 AD = 759 AUC
5 AD = 758 AUC
4 AD = 757 AUC
3 AD = 756 AUC
2 AD = 755 AUC
1 AD = 754 AUC
1 BC = 753 AUC
2 BC = 752 AUC
3 BC = 751 AUC
4 BC = 750 AUC
5 BC = 749 AUC Jesus born on Tishri 1

I didn't expect to be making a list like this, but I'm glad I did to make sure I was thinking straight. There it is in black and white, a handy reference.

Incoming e-mail

From: Jim Bramlett (7 Nov 2011)
"Obama Administration Opposes FDR Prayer At WWII Memorial"

Dear friends: Why are we not surprised at this pro-Muslim, anti-Christian, faux President and administration? They are increasingly blatant and less subtle about it.

This is just one more abomination among many, which include cancelling the National Day of Prayer at the White House but honoring the Muslim Ramadan holiday. Obama is an admitted Muslim. He was elected largely by racists, welfare recipients, and the approximately 50% of the population who pay no taxes. He is a national disgrace.

Many recent earthquakes are no doubt caused by our Founding Fathers and the many who died for America turning over in their graves.


Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council said it's not all that surprising.

"This is further evidence that the administration has created an environment that is hostile towards American history -- but in particular towards Christianity," Perkins told Fox News. "I hope America wakes up and realizes what this administration is doing to this country and how they want to radically and fundamentally change America."

"They want to erase every aspect of America's heritage," Perkins said of Obama's administration. "Any president, any official in history that has embraced Christianity, is no longer welcome in this administration. That's the environment they are creating." Jim

My reply

By their fruits we will know them.

Vatican Calls For World Government November 2011

The current global economic crisis has pushed world leaders to begin recommending a world government. The Vatican is now calling for a “global public authority,” including a world central bank controlling global financial affairs. An 18-page document released by the Vatican’s Justice and Peace department was entitled, “Towards Reforming the International Financial and Monetary Systems in the Context of a Global Public Authority.”...

France’s top financial regulator, Jean-Pierre Jouyet, was quick to agree that, “the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace is right to emphasize in its latest report the need to strengthen global governance.”...

As a first step, Jouyet emphasized the need to “strengthen” the powers of the new European banking and insurance regulators....

Of course, this also fits neatly with the U.S. President’s stated goal to “share the wealth around.” The world is succumbing to the false idea that more laws and regulations by the government is the solution to the “selfishness, collective greed and hoarding of goods.”

The great euro Putsch rolls on as two democracies fall

Europe’s scorched-earth policies have begun in earnest. The inherent flaws of monetary union have created a crisis of such gravity that EU leaders now feel authorized to topple two elected governments.

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