Pro and Con 1643

Posted 1-3-2012



The cross (Photo by Jim Rants) Called to remove a tree from an Escondido church yard (in southern California), the two landscapers did not expect what they saw.

BY: Rob Kerby

As landscaper Salvador Maya sawed into a large pine tree on the lawn of Escondido, California's First Congregational Church, he stepped back in awe, then spontaneously crossed himself.

He yelled at his boss, Jim Rants. "Look at this," he exclaimed. "It’s a cross ... something sacred!"

Rants and his crew from Star Landscaping had been called in by the staff to cut down the pine, which was leaning dangerously toward a neighbor's property -- along with some other brush and small trees.

But they did not expect what they all saw: a stylized Greek-style cross formed within the rings of the big old pine.

"With it being on church property, you come across a cross," Rants told local TV 10News, "it's like, I guess, divine intervention, something like that."...

“Salvador yelled at me, ‘Look at this, it’s a cross!’ ” Rants told Perry. “So I looked at it and thought ‘Holy moly, we’ve got something here. It’s just amazing, and to be on church property, it’s definitely something divine.”

My comments

The Lord must have guided them so that they cut the tree in the right place to reveal the pretty cross. Salvador Maya is an interesting name. Salvador means 'Saviour', and there is a good chance that his ancestors were part of the Maya civilization of pre-Columbian Mesoamerica. I have been researching their calendar lately. This is an interesting tie-in.

Incoming e-mail, Re: My Love and Prayer for You and Ed

It could be anytime, and I want you to read this letter ASAP before the Departure. See you soon.

Thank you very much for the letter.
It brought me to tears.
I'm praying with love for you and Ed for "going up together in the Rapture!"
Only 3 days left until the end of Hanukkah, but I still firmly believe it'll happen.
Throughout my life I learned the pattern of God that He always works at the last moment.
So just hang on!

The Bride should be able to understand the heart of our Lord how much He loves and wants to save His Chosen People as well as Left Behind People. If the Rapture of the Church occurs during Hanukkah, the Chosen People will learn that one of their Feasts has been fulfilled for the Bride of the Church who was replaced with them to marry the Almighty. And they'll become angry and jealousy as Paul prophesied in Romans. Furthermore, they'll learn that the Spring Feasts were all fulfilled exactly by Yeshua, and the Fall Feasts will be fulfilled for them by the 2nd coming of Christ. Ultimately this understanding will lead them to accept Yeshua as their True Messiah.

Also when Left Behind people learn this undeniable Scriptural evidences, they'll find the truth, and be saved from the deception of satan as I mentioned in the previous post.

If the Rapture takes place on any regular day, I don't see how they'll learn the perfection of this God's amazing design and God's love how much He wants to save them by demonstrating His perfection.

Looking forward meeting you and Ed with all Doves very soon after we're all transformed into young(early 30s) and beautiful glorified body. In Love of Yeshua

My reply

God bless you. Thanks so much. I got a scare this morning. I thought Ed was gone, but by rocking him gently, rubbing him, and talking to him, he finally caught his breath. He probably would have anyway, but I can't be sure of that. It seemed that he reacted to me. The thought of someone being saved from drowning by Paramedics flew through my head afterward.

One soupspoon at a time, I got his usual breakfast, 2/3rd of a large plastic mug of Rice-N-Shine Shake, 2/3rd mug of orange juice, and 1/4th mug of water down him.

We are still waiting for the Rapture. Ed's barely hanging on. Our daughter and her son came to see him. He couldn't talk to them, couldn't shut his mouth. He grunted to show he heard them though.

I found Nicole Poon's post on Five Doves, and am trying hard to digest her December posts. The only way I have found to read it is to roll mouse pointer over the date and read what appear's on the screen and copy it here.

Here it is:
19 December 2011/ A lady in white was behind of a column and a curtain. Then I asked God what the meaning was.
19 December 2011/Then God showed a censer with smoke and a dove was flying up from it. (This censer was put on a altar and that lady was facing it.)
19 December 2011/But I still asked God the same question: I understand the day of His coming no one know,so what should I do at this moment? Should I restore my business or do ministry for Him with these visions? Then God replied me with this vision: He showed five layer of sky above from the earth. The first: the countless...
19 December 2011/But I still asked God the same question: I understand the day of His coming no one know, so what should I do at this moment? Should I restore my business or do ministry for Him with these visions? Then God replied me with this vision: He showed five layer of sky above from the earth. The first: the countless doves were flying up. The second: the countless flying objects(Ships) were floating. The third: There were many cyclone and lightning. The fourth:there were a rainbow and some clouds. The fifth:that was the top layer.It showed a splendor scene of heaven.It was reality !!! It seemed that God have never answered any my questions about the worldly business.

There you have it for her December posts.

Is it talking about the Rapture? Yes. Definitely, and so are her pictures starting back in September. Does it tell us the date of the Rapture? Probably not. However, Nicole Poon's last post was on the 23rd of December.

Please Lord, if it is your perfect will, we would like for Ed to make it to the Rapture. In Jesus' name, Amen.

My thoughts:
If I'm right, the 2300-day Tribulation (Dan 8:13,14) started Pentecost, May 29, 2009, and will end on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept 14, 2015, the Day of God's Wrath.

According to Dan 12:11, there are 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath (which is the great and terrible Day of the Lord, the first day of Jesus' millennial rule) and the Second Advent. The year of the Second Advent is a Hebrew Leap Year, and 5776 is a Leap Year. That locks it into place.

I think the Second Advent will be on Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee Year that will be announced on the previous Day of Atonement, Sept 23, 2015.

1917 was the year the Balfour Declaration was signed giving the Jews the right to move back into the Promised Land, plus 49 years (a Jubilee cycle is 49 years) is 1966. The Jubilee was in 1967, year of the Six-Day War, which gave the Jews the Temple Mount. Too bad Moshe Dayan gave access to it away, but it too must fit into God's perfect plan.

1967 plus 49 years is 2016. The Jubilee Year should start Nisan 1, 5776 (Sat April 9, 2016, and Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath). The Jubilee Year should end Nisan 1, 5777.

2016 - 7 = 2009, the beginning of the Tribulation (on Pentecost).

A Jubilee Year has to be preceeded by a Sabbatic Year, and 5775 is a Sabbatic Year. It divides by 7 equally.

Well, so much for my second all-night vigil, the other was Christmas Eve. Tonight, I went to sleep at my computer. I better see if I can get Ed's shake down him and go to bed myself.

Hope to see you soon. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: How beautiful heaven must be!

I just read a posting on Five Doves that your husband passed away. I am sorry Marilyn for your loss and that you and Ed were not taken up together in the Rapture. He has gone ahead, but it won't be long now - it can't be with all the signs that are all around us showing the faithful that Christ's return is right at the door. You are a blessing to your fellow watchers Marilyn - please know that and also take comfort in knowing that as brothers and sisters in the Lord we will pray for your strength and courage during this time of sadness. How beautiful heaven must be!
How beautiful heaven must be!
How beautiful heaven must be!
God Bless you and your family.

Your Sister in Christ

My reply

Thank you so much for caring and for your prayers.

I found a picture today that helps. It was taken in Knoxville, so it was probably his first year of college at Univ. of Tennessee. We got married Jan 13 that year. I like to remember him like that.

I also found my High School Senior picture at Kingsport, TN. Both fit the same time frame. We ended up having to keep our marriage secret until I got my diploma, because he couldn't find a room close enough to school to walk. In Knoxville, they didn't care if you were married. In Kingsport, they would have made me quit school had they known.

Just maybe Ed looks like that now too. Surely we don't have very long to wait.

The dentist, Dr. Glen Swanson just called. He thinks we have a chance Jan 3. Hope he is right.

My girlfriend in Pensacola thought Ed's going to heaven on the 27th could be a sign to me. I hadn't thought of that. Sivan 6, Pentecost, is coming up Sunday, May 27, 2012. We'll see. Agape

I wasn't prepared for this

This phenomenon, known as cadaveric spasm, can leave the body posed in bizarre contortions....

It helped when I found a picture of him taken in June after we married in January, 1947. Thinking of him as in the picture is helping erase the otherwise grisly details I'd like to forget.

Found on Five Doves

Bob Anderson (31 Dec 2011)
"MJ Agee"

i've been an avid reader of Marilyn's staggering scholarship since 1991 when I first stumbled across her books. I've corresponded with her frequently, and, in the process, become her friend and admirer.

My heart goes out to her over her (temporary) separation from Ed.

While I praise God that her financial needs were met yet again by the Doves, it occurs to me that she now has another huge expense, the funeral and burial, to meet. I have no idea if Ed had insurance, but I think it would be appropriate for the Doves to make one more effort to include a check with their sympathy cards.

Maranatha, Bob Anderson

My reply

> > i've been an avid reader of Marilyn's staggering scholarship since 1991 when I first stumbled across her books. I've corresponded with her frequently, and, in the process, become her friend and admirer.

Wow! thanks. It sure is nice to be appreciated. I've studied all my life for myself, because I had a hunger to know all that I could about certain things I was interested in. When books on nutrition started overlapping to the point that I lost interest, I turned to the Bible and never stopped.

This is one book that you can't ever plumb the depths of and understand it all. There is so much information there, one lifetime is not enough to dig it all out. God had to inspire it. If man tried to put all that information down, a warehouse couldn't hold all the books. It took God to pack it all into one book small enough to carry around.

God knew what he was doing when he got us to move to California from Oak Ridge, TN. We bought our first house in La Mirada, and then BIOLA built their La Mirada campus within bike riding distance. I had the use of all their Seminary Collection at my fingertips. I read the Bible all the way through first to protect me against getting led astray, then exhausted the Bethany Baptist Church Library. After that, I spent 7 years reading about an 18" stack every week from BIOLA's library. What a wonderful start that was. I am forever grateful for that opportunity that apparently just fell into my lap, but I'm sure the Lord arranged it.

When we were looking for a house, Ed's brother, who lived in Fullerton, said that he liked the houses in La Mirada. We did too, and bought there in spite of having to pick up mail at the train station at first. Ours was the 3rd tract built there. It had been an olive orchard. There was an olive tree in almost every yard.

Could olives have been a sign? There was one at this house in Riverside when we moved in too. When Ed had run for city council in La Mirada, the olive trees were blooming, and he became allergic to them, so we took it out.

If we are the olive harvest, Hanukkah 2012 will start Sun Dec 9. It would be over before winter, and John 10:22 said it was winter. That would be before the Aztec Calendar ends on Dec. 21, 2012. That will be winter.

I hope we don't have to wait that long. I'll have to give Ascension Day (May 17, 2012) and Pentecost (May 27, 2012) more thought. Let me know if you have any ideas on when the Rapture might be. It can't come too soon.

David dreamed of he and I going up in the Rapture without Ed. That seems to be coming true. I had misunderstood and thought he dreamed of the 3 of us going up, but he said he hated to tell me, but it was just the 2 of us. I said that I hoped Ed would make it, but he didn't. We just have to trust the Lord. Somehow, in the end, we will find out that he knows best. His reasons are beyond what we can figure out sometimes.

Back to my story. When a friend got too sick to manage her Good News Club, I took it over. Dave accepted Christ at her club, so I knew it could make a permanent difference in kid's lives. I kept it until some time after they were in Jr. High.

That friend let me read all her library of books on the Bible too. She had attended a Bible College. In the end, she donated them to a church and they named their new library after her. She gave me my first Scofield Bible.

A girl that helped her with her Good News Club and I got together often and listened to RB Thieme's tapes. Now there was a man that spent all his time studying. We attended his conferences when in the Los Angeles area and taped the messages. I'm certain that all this was arranged by the Lord to expose me to good Bible teaching.

On board ship coming home from Japan after WW II, Ed had prayed for a Christian wife. The Lord chose me, you couldn't get a stronger Christian, but his mother and step-father lived in Kingsport, TN. I lived in Terre Haute, IN.

The Lord had to get my dad transferred from Vigo Ordinance to Holston Ordinance Works 4 miles out of Kingsport, TN (ahead of time, so he knew what Ed was going to pray). Then the Lord had to get both families to move out of town to staff quarters at "Area B." They made B compound explosive, so explosive, they had to cut it with RDX. Ed's step-father was over vehicles. Dad was Safety Engineer. Ed and I met when walking up the hill after getting off the city bus. We married when he was in his first year at Univ of Tennesse at Knoxville and I was in my senior year at Dobyns-Bennett High School in Kingsport. We had to keep it a secret until I got my diploma, then we moved into a bedroom apartment near UT. After Ed graduated, and was working on his Masters, he got called back into the army. After that, he worked for Union Carbide at Oak Ridge. We came to California from there in 1955 because Ed's family had moved here. Yet, the Lord was behind it all. He had to get me near BIOLA's library.

> > I have no idea if Ed had insurance

He didn't, that was dropped when our world caved in and we lost the Yorba Linda house. He was a veteran of WW II and the Korean Conflict. He will be cremated and buried in the Riverside National Cemetery 5 miles from our house. His brother is there. I have a site reserved there on top of Ed if I need it too. I didn't know they did that.

Our daughter, our son, and his daughter have all contributed money to make this possible. Lucky I had been saving my letter paying the April 10 taxes to take to the post office and send return receipt requested. I still had that in my bank account. I had to use it for this instead. I'll get $411 less each month Social Security now. That's scary, but my daughter happened to think that I was refused Food Stamps because we had $200 too much income. Ed got full amount Social Security. I got half of his, which was more than I would have qualified for on my own. Now, maybe I can get Food Stamps.

I'm so grateful for everyone's help. I don't know what I would have done otherwise. God bless you every one.

Dave and I are sick. His is bronchitis. Mine seems like a cold at this stage. Hope we don't get pneumonia. That's what started Ed's downfall. I had it then too, but was able to get back on my feet, probably because I was younger. He was 87. I'm 83. I am left with permanent fibrosis in my lungs, but it doesn't bother me, just the doctor.

John Tng says the Rapture will be in 2012. I hope it is soon. My friend Susie in Pensacola wonders if 27 is a sign. Ed died on the 27th. Pentecost will be Sun May 27. We'll see.

The most comforting thing so far is to find Ed's school picture made the year we were married. He was such a sweetie all his life. Before Christmas, he shed a tear and said he was going to be so happy to see his brother. The last thing he said that I could understand was, "I'm going to die, and you are going to get many rewards." We would have been married 65 years Jan 13. Agape

My thoughts

The picture of Ed that I found was made in June after we married in January 1947. He had turned 23 at the end of March. I was still 18. That's the way I want to remember him. I wonder if he already looks like that. He will someplace along the line.

2Co_5:8 says, "absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." Therefore, he is present with the Lord. I expect him to be with his mother, his dad that was killed when he was 4, his brother and sister that died at birth. I also am picturing him as young again, maybe 23.

We have hope. 1Th 4:13-17 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so THEM ALSO WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (preceed) them which are asleep. 6 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: 17 THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Therefore, as I understand it, Ed will come back with Christ, get his resurrection body, then I will be caught up with him to meet the Lord in the air. That is very comforting, and it may happen soon.

This is my job. 1Co 15:58 says, "Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord."

Incoming e-mail

In Luke 17:26-27 and Matthew 24:37-39, in the days of Noah, it was business as usual until, "the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all." "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man (Jesus)." Noah is being referenced in these verses as a type of the Rapture, our ESCAPE FROM THE SUDDEN DESTRUCTION.

The next 3 verses, in Luke 17:28-30, it says, "Likewise, also, as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and DESTROYED them all. Even thus shall it be in THE DAY when the Son of man (Jesus) is revealed." How much clearer can our Lord make it for us? THE RAPTURE AND SUDDEN DESTRUCTION WILL BE THE SAME DAY!!!

My reply

In Luke 17:26-27 and Matthew 24:37-39, in the days of Noah, it was business as usual until, "the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all." "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man (Jesus)." Noah is being referenced in these verses as a type of the Rapture, our ESCAPE FROM THE SUDDEN DESTRUCTION.

The next 3 verses, in Luke 17:28-30, it says, "Likewise, also, as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and DESTROYED them all. Even thus shall it be in THE DAY when the Son of man (Jesus) is revealed." How much clearer can our Lord make it for us? THE RAPTURE AND SUDDEN DESTRUCTION WILL BE THE SAME DAY!!!

Incoming e-mail

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011
Subject: your post today on Five Doves

Thank you for the great post today giving the accuracy to the Savior's birth year.

Enjoy all your posts... God bless your research!
ybiC, Tom

My reply

God bless you Tom. Thanks so much for your kind words. You have no idea how much it means to me now to read your email. It is so nice to have all my hard work appreciated.

It reminds me of why I share my findings. It is super-important that we all accept Christ and that all believers become wise virgins (Mt 25).

The First-Trump Rapture (I Thess 4:16,17) is near. The sand in our hourglass is running down constantly. It never stops, even when we sleep. Agape

Posted on Five Doves

Kevin Heckle (14 Dec 2011)
"Lauren: Herod's impossible death"

Lauren, According to the Martin theory that you cited, Herod's death occurred in January of 1 AD, based on his interpretation of the historian Josephus' account. However, if the Martin theory is totally dependent upon the PARTIAL lunar eclipse of December 29, 1 BC then his theory is completely incorrect. Martin most likely consulted a basic list of lunar eclipses which occurred during that time frame, which included that December 29, 1 BC eclipse, to support his theory. Unfortunately, that eclipse was NOT visible anywhere in southwest Asia (Israel, Egypt, etc.). It was visible in North America but not in Jerusalem. To be fair, the FULL lunar eclipse on January 9, 1 BC was visible in SW Asia but was not considered by Martin for other reasons.

On the other hand the 4 BC lunar eclipse occurred in a leap year according to the Jewish calendar. One of Martin's assertions was his reckoning of the events surrounding Herod's death. According to his theory all those events could not be fit into a 30 day period. He may have not considered the Hebrew leap year in 4 BC. I have not researched this in a while, so I'm going by memory: I believe that Passover is reckoned normally when the Sun is past the spring equinox, with the new moon also occuring at or past the spring equinox and the 1st of Nisan. In that year, the new moon occurred with the sun past the spring equinox but prior to Nisan 1 on Veadar (Adar II) 27-28 whenever it was observed. I'm not certain, but I believe this pushes the Passover into the next Hebrew month. If that is the case, then there were 60 days between the eclipse-marked death of Herod and Passover, plenty of time for all the events to have been completed.

There are multiple Biblical passages, historically proven events and celestial appearances to be considered to establish the correct birthdate of our Lord. Ultimately there is a truth about the matter, which we may not know until we see Him face to face. We have only partial information because it was so long ago, and we weren't there. Thankfully we have the love of Christ which is sure and true no matter what our various theories of His birthdate are.
Merry Christmas, Kevin H.

Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural

Dec 23, 2011

And in case there was any doubt about the preternatural degree of energy needed to make such distinct marks, the Enea report spells it out: "This degree of power cannot be reproduced by any normal UV source built to date."...

Italian government scientists have claimed to have discovered evidence that a supernatural event formed the image on the Turin Shroud, believed by many to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

Incoming e-mail

KML (29 Dec 2011)
"Re; Kevin H " Antichrist Question ?"

Hello Kevin and Doves
Yes it is true that Paul was a Roman, and his blood line was Jewish. Which does corrispond with my thoughts.
Lets look at Revelation 17:9-11
What was the Seventh, and what will be the Eighth Empire ?
Beyond the identification of the nations of Ezekiel 38, the Book of Revelation also confirms the notion that, indeed, the region of Turkey will head the Future Antichrist's empire.
Rev 17:3 There 'I saw....a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had Seven Heads and Ten Horns.
Here we see the final "beast" empire of the Antichrist. The beast has Seven Heads and Ten Horns. We already know from the Book of Daniel that the Ten Horns represent the Ten nations or Kings that will comprise the Antichrist's empire. But the Seven Heads stand for Seven Empires that Have Existed throughout history. ALL have foreshadowed the final empire to come. As usual, whenever the Bible gives a prophecy that may be difficult in it's symbolism, the Bible clarifies the symbolism and explains the passage for us.
Verse 9
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The Seven Heads are Seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Verse 10
And there are Seven Kings: Five are fallen, and One IS, and the other is Not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. Verse 11
And the beast that Was, and IS not, even he IS the Eighth, and IS of the Seven, and goeth into perdition.

The Seven Heads are called Seven Mountains. The Bible uses mountains as a symbol representing a Kingdom of [an] empire. But most importantly this passage gives us insight into the fact that, before Jesus returns, there will actually Have Been a total of EIGHT "beast" empires. The Eighth empire will be ruled by the Antichrist. How can this passage help us gain insight into the identification of the Final empire of the Antichrist?

First we see that at the time John wrote this passage, FIVE of the empires had already fallen. This is seen in the phrase " five have been." THESE EMPIRES ARE GENERALLY ACCEPTED BY BIBLE TEACHERS AS THE FOLLOWING
1. The Egyptian Empire
2. The Assyrian Empire
3. The Babylonian Empire
4. The Persian Empire
5. The Greek Empire
After these five, the angel tells John that ONE empire "IS." At the time John wrote the Book of Revelation, Rome "WAS." It ruled the Middle East, North Africa, and much of Europe. Thus the SIXTH empire was the Roman Empire. The next Empire, of course, is the SEVENTH, and then the EIGHTH will be the empire of the Antichrist.
So the Seventh empire is the One we need to identify, because according to the Verse above, the Eighth empire will be " A resurrected or Revived " version of the SEVENTH empire.
So if we are waiting for the final Eighth empire, then What was the SEVENTH ?
What Empire followed Rome ?
The most common belief, however, held most universally by Bible teachers, is that the Antichrist's empire will be a "revived" Roman Empire.
There are, however, some glaring problems with this theory: 1. First, Rome was the SIXTH empire. If Rome was the Sixth, and will also be the Last, THEN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SEVENTH ? This theory has a gaping hole.
Is Rome the Sixth, Seventh, and the Eighth empires?
Neither Scripture nor history nor common sense supports this notion. 2.Second, every one of the previous SIX empires ruled the Middle Esat, including Jerusalem. This is very important ! We must always remember that the Bible is thoroughly Jerusalem-centric. It is Not American-centric, nor Western-centric. In the Biblical view of things, [Jerusalem is The Center of the Earth.]
This point cannot be underscored enough.
Any theory that revolves around a revived Roman Empire based in Europe- for instance on the European Common Market- is a concept foreign to the Bible. Unless the empire Rules over or directly affects Jerusalem, it is actually a bit irrelevent to the Biblical mindset. 3.Third, if we look at the first SIX empires, each succeeding empire either destroyed or absorbed the empire that preceeded it. There is a very natural succession. If we look at each empire, we see that they all fulfill these characteristics: They ruled over Jerusalem and they defeated and absorbed their predecessor.
The Egyptian Empire ruled all of Egypt and Israel as well. But the Assyrian Empire defeated the Egyptian Empire and likewise ruled over a vast portion of the Middle East, including Israel. After this, the Babylonian Empire defeated the Assyrian Empire and became ever Larger than it's predecessor, again, ruling over Israel.
Such is the pattern with each successive empire: The Medo-Persian Empire succeeded the Babylonian Empire only to be succeeded by the Greek Empire. The Greek Empire was in turn succeeded by the Roman Empire. Which leads us to the SEVENTH empire.

In AD 395, The Roman Empire was divided into TWO portions; The Eastern and the Western portions. The Eastern portion became known as the Byzantine Empire. In AD 410 the Western Capital City of Rome fell to invading Germanic tribes known as the Visigoths or Barbarians. The Western/European half of the Empire including it's Capital had fallen, but the Roman Empire nevertheless continued.
How so ?
It simply shifted it's Capital and it's throne from Rome to Constantinople a thousand miles East. The Western European portion of the Roman Empire fell but the Eastern Bysantine portion of the Roman Empire lived on for nearly another thousand years with Constantinople as it's Captial. The Roman Empire finally fell in AD 1453 to the TURKS. The Turkish Ottoman Empire succeeded the Roman Empire and ruled over the entire Middle East, including Jerusalem, for nearly Five Hundred years. The Turkish Empire existed right up until 1909.
Thus we see that the only Empire that fulfills the patterns necessary to be considered the SEVENTH empire is the Turkish/Ottoman Empire. This of course corrisponds perfectly with Ezekiel's List of nations with such a heavy emphasis on Turkey.

Bible prophecy and history maps

The World known to the Hebrews according to the Mosaic Account see map #4

Blessings to you. KML

My reply

In Rev 17:10, I think the 5 empires of the 5 kings that have fallen are (1) Nimrod's Tower of Babel (Babylon I), (2) Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon II, (3) Media-Persia, (4) Greece and (5) the Holy Roman Empire. (6) is the Ecclesiastical Roman Empire, and (7) is Babylon III near the Euphrates.

what will be the Eighth Empire ?

> > Verse 10
And there are Seven Kings: Five are fallen, and One IS, and the other is Not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

> > Verse 11
And the beast that Was, and IS not, even he IS the Eighth, and IS of the Seven, and goeth into perdition.

To me, the eighth king is Satan, and he enters into the False Prophet. Satan has two comings. There are only two sons of perdition that Satan indwells, Judas Iscariot and the False Prophet. Agape

"Mayan tablet does not predict end of the world in 2012, says expert"

A reference to 2012 on a Mayan tablet denotes a transition TO A NEW ERA, NOT THE APOCALYPSE, according to Sven Gronemeyer

(emphasis and parenthetic expressions are mine)

AP - 1 Dec 2011 - (Pictured is) A scene from the film 2012, which refers to the idea that THE MAYAN CALENDAR PREDICTS THE END OF THE WORLD....

The end is not quite nigh. At least that is the conclusion of a German expert who says his decoding of a Mayan tablet with a reference to a 2012 date denotes a transition to A NEW ERA and not a possible end of the world as others have read it....

The interpretation of the hieroglyphs by Sven Gronemeyer of La Trobe University in Australia was presented for the first time on Wednesday at the archaeological site of Palenque in southern Mexico.

His comments came less than a week after Mexico's archaeology institute acknowledged there was a second reference to the 2012 date in Mayan inscriptions, touching off another round of talk about whether it predicts the end of the world....

He said THE INSCRIPTION DESCRIBED THE RETURN OF THE MYSTERIOUS MAYAN GOD Bolon Yokte at the end of a 13th period of 400 years, known as Baktuns, on the equivalent of 21 December 2012. Mayans considered 13 a sacred number. There is nothing apocalyptic in the date, he said....

Gronemeyer said the inscription referred to the end of a cycle of 5,125 years since the beginning of the Mayan Long Count calendar in 3113 BC....

"For the elite of Tortuguero, it was clear they had to prepare the land for the return of the god and for Bahlam Ajaw to be the host of this initiation," he said.

Bolon Yokte, THE GOD OF CREATION AND WAR, WAS TO PREVAIL THAT DAY in a sanctuary of Tortuguero....

Last week, Mexico's National Institute of Anthropology said a SECOND INSCRIPTION MENTIONING THE 2012 DATE was on the carved or moulded face of a brick found at the Comalcalco ruin, near the Tortuguero site.

Mayan documentary to show 'evidence' of alien contact in ancient Mexico

Guatemala and Mexico release secret documents and artefacts for forthcoming film Revelations of the Mayans 2012 and Beyond

Ben Child, 29 Sept 2011

The ancient Mayans had contact with alien visitors who left behind evidence of their existence, according to a new Mexican documentary.

Sundance winner Juan Carlos Rulfo's Revelations of the Mayans 2012 and Beyond is currently in production for release next year to coincide with the end of the Mayan calendar....

Producer Raul Julia-Levy said the documentary-makers were working in cooperation with the Mexican government for what he said was "the good of mankind". He said the order to collaborate had come directly from the country's president, Álvaro Colom Caballeros.

"Mexico will release codices, artefacts and significant documents with evidence of Mayan and extraterrestrial contact, and all of their information will be corroborated by archaeologists," he said....

In a statement, Rosado spoke of contact "between the Mayans and extraterrestrials, supported by translations of certain codices, which the government has kept secure in underground vaults for some time"....

"Guatemala, like Mexico, home to the ancient-yet-advanced Mayan civilisation … has also kept certain provocative archeological discoveries classified, and now believes that it is time to bring forth this information in the new documentary," Guatemala's minister of tourism, Guillermo Novielli Quezada, said in a statement.

The Mayan calendar ends on 21 December 2012, a fact which conspiracy theorists have used to predict imminent apocalypse.
"In the Mayan calendar, the long calendar count begins in 3,114 BC and is divided into roughly 394-year periods called Baktuns. Mayans held the number 13 sacred and the 13th Baktun ends next year."

My comments

The First-Trump Rapture should take place before Mid-Trib...

Concerning Mid-Trib, Rev 12:12 says, "Therefore rejoice, O HEAVENS, AND YOU WHO DWELL IN THEM! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For THE DEVIL HAS COME DOWN TO YOU, having great wrath, because HE KNOWS THAT HE HAS A SHORT TIME."

It is the Great Tribulation, the last half of the 7-year Tribulation, that is to be shortened. If the end of the Mayan Calendar, Dec 21, 2012, is the date Satan is cast down to Earth at Mid-Trib, he will enter into the False Prophet and sit in the Temple as if he is God that day.

I think the day he will be cast into the Lake of Fire will be Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, the Second Advent of Christ on the first day of the Jubilee Year.

Is this reasonable? To see, I went to Time and Date.
From date: Friday, December 21, 2012
Added 3 years, 6 months (estimated time)
Resulting date: Tuesday, June 21, 2016

The Great Tribulation is to be shortened. Therefore, the second Advent on Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee Years, makes sense. The Beast and False Prophet will be put in the Lake of Fire at the Second Advent of Christ.

I don't expect the War of Armageddon to last very long. If, as R.B. Thieme taught, each of us bumps one demon and Christ bumps Satan, the War will be over in a hurry.

Thus, the number of the Bride of Christ may equal the number of Satan's angels. Rev 12:4 says, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth". That's a third of the angels.

Rev 5:10 says of the Bride saints, "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth."

Rev 19:11-21 says, "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."

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