Pro and Con 1678

Posted 1-27-2013


Rev 4:3: "and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald."
Rev 4:6: "And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal (krustallos, ice)".


Hi all, what the latest on your 2013 Rapture watch? When will you come to realize that the Rapture does not happen until the end of the 7-year tribulation period? When that happens don't be mad at me or God, because I warned you that the holy scriptures never revealed that The Church would not have to go through the full 7-years.



Rev 3:10 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience (hupomone, patient continuance, waiting), I also will keep thee from (ek, out of) the hour of temptation (peirasmos, a putting to proof, i.e., in the Great Tribulation), which shall come upon all the world (i.e., at Mid-Trib), to try (peirazo, test) them that dwell upon the earth."

Luk 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape (ekpheugo, to flee out, escape, from pheugo, to vanish, escape, flee away) all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Deu 4:30,31 says, "When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; 31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them."

Mar_13:18 says, "And pray ye that your flight (phuge, escape, flight) be not in the winter."

Mat 24:20-22 says, "But pray ye that your flight (phuge, escape, flight) be NOT IN THE WINTER, NEITHER ON THE SABBATH DAY: 21 For then (tote, at that time, i.e., Mid-Trib) shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."


1Th 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP (i.e., the first trump) of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (HARPAZO, catch up, pluck, pull, take by force) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Notice that these are not yet actually immortal. That happens after the Last-Trump Rapture.


1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

All, including Paul, will be made immortal at the time of the Last-Trump Rapture.


I think the First-Trump Rapture will be May 5, 2013, and the Last-Trump Rapture will be on Sept. 14, 2015. Sunday, May 5, 2013 will be both Ascension Day, Iyar 25, 5773, and the Eastern Orthodox Easter. That day will be preceded by the Orthodox Holy Saturday, when the Holy Fire appears over Christ's tomb in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem.

Jesus told his disciples, "But pray ye that your flight (phuge, escape, i.e., the First-Trump Rapture) be NOT IN THE WINTER (i.e., not between Dec. 21 and Mar. 21), NEITHER ON THE SABBATH DAY: For then (i.e., after the First-Trump Rapture at Mid-Trib) shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Mt 24:20,21).

2Co 12:2-4 says, "I knew a man (Paul himself, he didn't want to boast) in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up (harpazo, catch up, pluck, pull, take by force) to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up (harpazo, catch up, pluck, pull, take by force) into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Rev 2:20-22 says, " Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space (i.e., the first half of the Tribulation) to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will (i.e., Mid-Trib) cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into GREAT TRIBULATION, except they repent of their deeds."

Since the Great Tribulation follows the First-Trump Rapture, the first Rapture will be Mid-Trib.

Rev 12:5 says, "And she brought forth a Man Child, Who was to rule all nations with a Rod of Iron: and her Child was caught up (harpazo, catch up, pluck, pull, take by force) unto God, and to His Throne".

Rev_7:14 says, "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Rev_1:9-11 says, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last".

It seems that God has put his stamp of approval on the Orthodox use of the Julian Calendar to figure the date of Easter, Jesus' resurrection day. One year, someone changed the Orthodox date of Easter, and there was no Holy Fire that year. They reverted back to the original way of figuring Easter, and the Holy Fire has appeared every year since. I think the Holy Fire on Holy Saturday this year will usher in the Rapture on Sunday, May 5, 2013, Iyar 25, Ascension Day and the Eastern Orthodox Easter. The Rapture involves both resurrection and ascension.

There are two Raptures. The First-Trump Rapture is when the 23 elders get their resurrection bodies and are caught up to sit on their thrones before the throne of God. The elders are the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles of Israel. John is among them. When the 24 elders are caught up, the wise-virgin Philadelphians will be caught up.

Rev 4:1-4 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was (literally, became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one (God/Jesus, the first and the last) sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (first stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (last stone in the breastplate): and there was a rainbow (Saturn's rings) round about the throne (Eze 1:1,26-28), in sight like unto an emerald (Judah's stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah). 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting (i.e., including John), clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

Rev 5:8-10 says, ..."saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and HAST REDEEMED (i.e., past tense) us to God by thy blood OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth."

After that First-Trump Rapture, the Lamb (representing Jesus as the Saviour) is given the 7-sealed book. No seals are broken at that time. The First-Trump Rapture takes place before any seals are broken.

The Last-Trump Rapture takes place on the Day of God's Wrath (Rev 6:17; 7:14).

Rev 6:17 says, " For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Rev 7:14 says, "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."


Job 11:5,6 says, "But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee; 6 And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is!"


Num 10:1-4 says, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them (i.e., both), ALL THE ASSEMBLY shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET then the princes (I,e., the 24 elders), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves (YAAD, ASSEMBLE TO ENGAGE FOR MARRIAGE, i.e., the elders are in the Bride-of-Christ group) unto thee."


Heb 12:22-25 says, "ye (i.e., believers) are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven".

Mar_13:20 says, "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days."

Luk 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the unwise) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion (i.e., the Great Tribulation) with the unbelievers."

Mat 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."

Mat 22:12-14 says, "And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are called, but few are chosen."

Rev 17:14 says, "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that ARE WITH HIM are called, and chosen, and faithful."

At the time of the First-Trump Rapture, Rev 17:12 says, "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

After Satan and his fallen angels are cast out of Heaven, where they have been accusing us, I think we will be caught up to Heaven. Then the Great Tribulation will begin.

Job 11:5-6 says, "the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is!"

Joh_20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week (Sunday), when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, CAME JESUS and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you."

We are the temple of God. 1Co_3:16 says, "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

Rev 11:1-3 says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, RISE (i.e., in the First-Trump Rapture), and measure the temple of God (i.e., the wise-virgin Philadelphians) , and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days" (i.e., during the Great Tribulation, so those days will be shortened).

When the two witnesses hear "Come up hither", I think they will ascend at the time of the Last-Trump Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath.

Rev 11:12-19 says, "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come (i.e., the Second Advent is still 7 months future, Eze 39:12,13); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

At the time of the First-Trump Rapture, all the saints sing the NEW SONG. At the time of the Last-Trump Rapture, only the 144,000 Israelites can sing the NEW SONG.

Rev 5:9,10 says, "And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

Rev. 14:1-5 says, "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

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