Pro and Con 1697

Posted 4-2-13



Excellent article. We have been studying this for many years, and this is the way we see it, but have never found anyone else who had this understanding. Why do you think so few understand this? Have also been studying Rev. 12, and we believe what causes the war in heaven is when the 144,000 show up and Satan realizes he has failed, and is thrown down at that time. This is so exciting to find someone who has come to the same conclusions.... Would love to discuss this with you at length... My sister and I discuss and study this constantly. We love prophecy and feel we are very close to the brink of something big happening. What do you feel the criteria for the 144,000 is? We have been studying idolatry and how almost all religions are involved in it. We have also been discussing how the Bride has made herself ready. Any thoughts on either of those subjects?


> > Why do you think so few understand this?

They believe what they have been taught.

I didn't go that route. Some time before 1960, two Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door. They wanted to come in and have regular Bible studies with me every week. I was afraid of being taught, afraid that I could be misled slowly and surely by something that sounded right but was not correct.

To protect myself, I read the Bible all the way through before studying with anyone outside of what I heard in my church. Then I read books from Bethany Baptist Church Library, judging them by what I read in Scripture. When I exhausted that library, I got a library card from the BIOLA College Library and spent 7 years constantly reading books from their Seminary Collection.

Among other things, I wanted to know what the cherubim in Gen. 3:24 and Eze. 1 and 10 were.

Just now, I tried to search for "what are cherubim" on Bing. Here is what came up:

"cherubim plural of cherĀ·ub (Noun)
1.A winged angelic being described in biblical tradition as attending on God, regarded in traditional Christian angelology as an angel of... 2.A representation of a cherub in art, depicted as a chubby, healthy-looking child with wings."

They also quoted Wikipedia:
"A cherub is a type of spiritual being mentioned in the Hebrew Bible and cited later on in the Christian biblical canons, usually associated with the presence of God. The plural can be written as cherubim or cherubs."

During those 7 years of almost constantly reading books from BIOLA, I didn't find one single person who knew what they represented. People would leave that out or call them some kind of angel. I didn't think they were angels. To me, that was a cop-out. However, along the way, I got a good idea of what the teachers writing books believed about the Bible in general. After 7 years, I didn't renew my library card again.

Practically in tears, I opened my Bible, put my hands on it, and told the Lord, "You're going to have to show me." I started looking up every word in Eze. 1 in Strong's Concordance.

Eze 1:1-5 says,"Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God. 2 In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin's captivity, 3 The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him. 4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and A FIRE INFOLDING ITSELF, AND A BRIGHTNESS WAS ABOUT IT, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a MAN" (adam, From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.). (H119 said, "adam To show blood (in the face), that is, flush or turn rosy: - be (dyed, made) red (ruddy)." Lucky that I remembered that the NAME Adam meant red clay.

When I got to "brightness", nogahh, "brilliancy (literally or figuratively): - bright (-ness), light, (clear) shining," I finally realized that Ezekiel looked up in the sky and saw the Sun. It's "fire infolding itself" made sense for the first time.

The likeness of a man (adam, red clay) was about to make more sense too.

Then I realized that verse 15 said, "Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold ONE WHEEL UPON THE EARTH by the living creatures, with his four faces." What wheel did the Earth have? it's ORBIT. OH! So Earth was one of the four things flying in concentric circles, the wheels within wheels, around the Sun. The four things were Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars, the terrestrial planets. I don't think the translators had any idea of what Ezekiel's visions represented. Like so many, they probably thought the cherubim were some sort of angels.

Much later, I finally figured out what Eze. 1:1,26-28 was talking about, the throne of the only man/God that ever existed, Jesus Christ, was on Saturn.

Eze 1:1 said, "I saw visions of God."

Eze 1:26-28 said, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (i.e., farther out in space than the terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone (sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear, from Webster's Collegiate Dictionary): and upon the likeness (symbolic language) of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (i.e., the only God/man is Jesus) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward (i.e., from the equator upward), and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire (i.e., the lampstand represented these planets that look like lighted lamps in the night sky), and it had brightness round about (i.e., Saturn's rings). 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD".

Heaven has a halo. This was the third heaven Paul was caught up to in II Cor. 12:2-4 - 1. Mars 2. Jupiter 3. Saturn.

2Co 12:2-4 says, "I knew a man (Paul himself, he didn't want to boast) in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into PARADISE, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."


Eze 9:8-11 says, "And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem? 9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not. 10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head. 11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me."


Pro_30:4 says, "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name (i.e., YHWH), and WHAT IS HIS SON'S NAME, IF THOU CANST TELL?" His son's name is Jesus, born in New Testament times. However, the Son of God appeared in Old Testament times as the ANGEL OF THE LORD.

Joh_1:18 says, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (see other references to the ANGEL OF THE LORD at the end of this email.)

The ANGEL OF THE LORD appeared to Abraham.

Exo_3:2 says, "And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed."

Isa 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH THE KING OF ISRAEL), and I am the last (his redeemer the YHWH OF HOSTS); and beside me there is no God."


This will actually take place on the Day of God's Wrath.

Eze 10:1,2 says, "Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament (expanse of space) that was above the head of the cherubims (i.e., the 4 terrestrial planets) there appeared over them (i.e., farther out in space) as it were a sapphire stone (i.e., the throne of Jesus/God), as the appearance of the likeness of a throne. 2 And HE (i.e., Jesus/"Lord GOD") SPAKE unto the man clothed with linen, AND SAID, GO IN BETWEEN THE WHEELS (orbits), EVEN UNDER THE CHERUB (Satan, Eze 28:14f), and fill thine hand with coals of fire (i.e., pieces of rock from Satan's asteroid Wormwood, Rev. 8:8-11) from between the cherubims (terrestrial planets), and scatter them over the city (i.e., Jerusalem)."

Now, I also understand Gen 3:24. It says, "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden (i.e., rising in the eastern sky) Cherubims (planets), and a flaming sword (Satan's asteroid Wormwood) which turned every way (it rotated and orbited), to keep the way (derek, road, eastward journey) of the tree of life" (which is in Heaven, Saturn).


Rev_2:7 says, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God. "

2Co 12:2-4 says, "I knew a man in Christ (Paul himself, he didn't want to boast) above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to THE THIRD HEAVEN (i.e., Saturn). 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into PARADISE, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Rev_22:2 says, "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the TREE OF LIFE, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

Rev_22:14 says, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the TREE OF LIFE, and may enter in through the gates into the city."


Pro 5:3-8 says, "For the lips of a strange woman (i.e., the Harlot Church of Rev 17 and 18) drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil: 4 But her end is bitter as WORMWOOD, SHARP AS A TWOEDGED SWORD. 5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell. 6 Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them. 7 Hear me now therefore, O ye children, and depart not from the words of my mouth. 8 Remove thy way far from her, and come not nigh the door of her house."

Rev_8:11 says, "And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Jer 9:12 Who is the wise man, that may understand this? and who is he to whom the mouth of the LORD hath spoken, that he may declare it, for what the land perisheth and is burned up like a wilderness, that none passeth through?"

I don't know who this refers to, but the Lord woke me one night many years ago and said, "Be still and know that I am God." I was still until daylight, but nothing else happened.

At a different time, in a darkened room, he put a rectangle of light on Jer 50:2. It says, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."

I had been writing about the 3 Babylons all day before this happened at twilight, so that really soaked in. I started writing my first book soon afterward.

Rev 8:7-12 says, "The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. 8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were A GREAT MOUNTAIN BURNING WITH FIRE WAS CAST INTO THE SEA (i.e., the Mediterranean Sea): and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. 10 And the third angel sounded, and THERE FELL A GREAT STAR FROM HEAVEN (i.e., from between the terrestrial planets), BURNING AS (if) IT WERE A LAMP, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called WORMWOOD: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. 12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise."

Rev 18:1-4 says, "And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication (i.e., joined) with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another VOICE FROM HEAVEN, SAYING, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

THAT IS RAPTURE TWO. "COME" is exerchomai, to issue (literally or figuratively): - come-(forth, out), depart (out of), escape, get out, go (abroad, away, forth, out, thence), proceed (forth).

Rev 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up a stone (i.e., Wormwood) like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

WITH THE HELP OF THE LORD, I had finally figured out some things no one else seemed to know. It must have been time for it to be revealed. That's the way God works.

That shows how I tackle things - WITH THE LORD'S HELP.


Rev 4:1-4 said, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was (lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one (i.e, the God/man, Jesus Christ) sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (last stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (first stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the first and the last): and there was a rainbow (Saturn's rings) round about the throne (on Saturn), in sight like unto an emerald (Judah's stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah). 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders (i.e., 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles of Israel) sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

That is the First-Trump Rapture of 1 Thess 4:13-18.

1Th 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

MAYBE THE FIRST RAPTURE WILL BE ON THE LORD'S DAY, SUNDAY (May 5, 2013, Ascension Day and the Eastern Orthodox Easter Sunday)

Rev 1:9-11 says, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion IN TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos (meaning mortal), for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was (literally, became) in the Spirit on THE LORD'S DAY (i.e.SUNDAY), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last".

THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE ON THE GREAT AND TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD (maybe Mon. Sept 14, 2015, the Feast of Trumpets)

1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

If 1Co 15:51-54 was "THE LAST TRUMP", THEN 1Th 4:13-18 IS THE FIRST TRUMP. You can't have a last unless you have a first. Then it came clear, there will be two Raptures. I'm glad that at the time I didn't have someone insisting that ITh 4:13-18 was the same Rapture as 1Co 15:51-54. They are not the same.


Rev 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Joe_2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand".

2Pe_3:10 But the DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

Then in Rev 7:14, we find out that a second Rapture has taken place on the Day of God's Wrath. Verse 14 says, "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Then this shows why there are both wise and foolish virgins in Mt. 25. All are believers in the Lord, but all do not go to Heaven at the first Rapture. The foolish are quenching the Holy Spirit. Their lamp is sputtering, threatening to go out.

After the First-Trump Rapture, the saints out of every nation sing the NEW SONG.

Rev 5:8-10 says, "saints. 9 And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth."

After the Last-Trump Rapture, only the 144,000 Israelites can sing the NEW SONG.

Rev 14:1-5 says, "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb (Christ) stood on the mount Sion (i.e., Saturn), and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard A VOICE FROM HEAVEN, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they (i.e., the 144,000) SUNG AS IT WERE A NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, WHICH WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

The virgins/believers caught up in both Raptures are FIRSTFRUITS and part of the FIRST RESURRECTION.

1Co_15:23 says, "But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

Jas_1:18 says, "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

Rev_14:4 says, "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

Rev_20:5,6 says, "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

> > Have also been studying Rev. 12, and we believe what causes the war in heaven is when the 144,000 show up and Satan realizes he has failed, and is thrown down at that time. This is so exciting to find someone who has come to the same conclusions.... Would love to discuss this with you at length...

Maybe if we put our heads together, we can see more. Right now, it looks like the war in heaven is going on. I am hoping for the First-Trump Rapture May 5, 2013. It will be Ascension Day and the Eastern Orthodox Easter Sunday. The miracle of the HOLY FIRE will probably come from the grave of Jesus within the rotunda of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem shortly after 2 PM on Holy Saturday, the day before the Orthodox Easter.

This miracle of the Holy Fire just before the Orthodox Easter is the longest lasting miracle I know of. It just may be the Lord showing us when the first Rapture will take place. He appeared to Moses in fire. He appeared over the Tabernacle in fire. It has been said that no one who sees that Holy Fire leaves that church unchanged. They have special flights to carry the Holy Fire to major cities in several countries.


Mal_4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD"

Act_2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE that great and notable day of the Lord come".

Zep 2:2,3 says, "BEFORE the decree bring forth, BEFORE the day pass as the chaff, BEFORE the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, BEFORE the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. 3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall BE HID (sathar, BE ABSENT) in the day of the LORD'S anger."

Rev 6:12 says, "I beheld when he had opened the SIXTH SEAL, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood".

Rev 6:17 says, "For the great DAY OF HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Rev 7:9,10 says, "AFTER THIS I beheld, and, lo, A GREAT MULTITUDE, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, STOOD BEFORE THE THRONE, AND BEFORE THE LAMB, CLOTHED IN WHITE ROBES, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."

Rev 7:14 says, "These are they which CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."


Heb 11:13-16 says, "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

Heb 12:22-24 says, "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant".

Made perfect is teleioo, to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

We will be made perfect and will live forever. It sure sounds heavenly.

The more I learn, the more other verses suddenly take on more meaning. Heaven is a "large place." That fits Saturn. It is much larger than Earth.

2Sa 22:7-20 says, "In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears. 8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because HE WAS WROTH. 9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. 10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet. 11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind. 12 And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies. 13 Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled. 14 The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice. 15 And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; lightning, and discomfited them. 16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils. 17 HE SENT FROM ABOVE, HE TOOK ME; HE DREW ME OUT OF MANY WATERS; 18 He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them that hated me: for they were too strong for me. 19 They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the LORD was my stay. 20 HE BROUGHT ME FORTH ALSO INTO A LARGE PLACE: he delivered me, because he delighted in me."

Psa 18:10-19 says, " And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind. 11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. 12 At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire. 13 The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire. 14 Yea, he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; and he shot out lightnings, and discomfited them. 15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils. 16 HE SENT FROM ABOVE, HE TOOK ME, HE DREW ME OUT OF MANY WATERS. 17 He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me. 18 They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the LORD was my stay. 19 He brought me forth also into a LARGE PLACE; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.

Eze 28:12-18 says, "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus (meaning rock), and say unto him (i.e., Satan), Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius (i.e., Mercury), topaz (Venus), and the diamond (Earth), the beryl (Mars), the onyx (Rahab, Satan's planet that is now our Asteroid Belt), and the jasper (Jupiter), the sapphire (Saturn), the emerald (Uranus), and the carbuncle (Neptune), and gold (Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (i.e., on Rahab). 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I WILL DESTROY THEE, O COVERING CHERUB, FROM THE MIDST OF THE STONES OF FIRE. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; THEREFORE WILL I BRING FORTH A FIRE FROM THE MIDST OF THEE, it shall devour thee, and I WILL BRING THEE TO ASHES UPON THE EARTH IN THE SIGHT OF ALL THEM THAT BEHOLD THEE."

> > Have also been studying Rev. 12, and we believe what causes the war in heaven is when the 144,000 show up and Satan realizes he has failed, and is thrown down at that time

I have been reading Rev 12 too, but I haven't come to a final decision on the sequence of events.

Many years ago, I dreamed that Ed and I were in Heaven walking up to the doorway of a huge warehouse type building with aluminum siding. A boy I had led to the Lord via Pen-Pal letters when he was in the army ran up and hugged me then got lost in the crowd. He barely made it in time, for he stepped on a mine right after he accepted Christ. Along with a crowd of people, Ed and I went into the building and took a seat at one of the long tables covered with white tablecloths. We were served food. Because of that peaceful dream, I haven't expected to arrive in Heaven in the middle of a war.

Let's see what the scripture says. See if you agree with me. The time is MID TRIB. There are 1260 days of the Great Tribulation left, but that time is to be shortened or no flesh would be saved. It seems to me that Wormwood is caused to hit Earth a glancing blow rather than a direct hit that would destroy the Earth. It comes in at an oblique angle setting fires in Russia before it gets to Babylon, Iraq.

Russia had a 10,000 ton meteor explode in the sky lately. It seems like a warning sign. We now have the comet Panstarrs heading for Cassiopia, the Bride of Christ. It will be there in the later part of April and during May. We seem to be getting signs. In spite of the dreadful news, these are exciting times. I think we will get to see much more very soon.

Rev 12:6-17 says, "And the woman (i.e., Israel) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place (Petra) prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days (i.e., the last half of the Tribulation).7 And there was WAR IN HEAVEN (Mid-Trib): Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.9 And the great dragon was CAST OUT, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: HE WAS CAST OUT INTO (eis, to or into) THE EARTH, and his angels were cast out with him.10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, NOW (arti, through the idea of suspension; JUST NOW, THIS DAY, THIS HOUR, THIS PRESENT TIME, i.e., MID-TRIB) is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down (i.e., MID-TRIB), which accused them before our God day and night.11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.12 Therefore REJOICE, YE HEAVENS, AND YE THAT DWELL IN THEM. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for THE DEVIL IS COME DOWN UNTO YOU, HAVING GREAT WRATH, BECAUSE HE KNOWETH THAT HE HATH BUT A SHORT TIME (i.e., the shortened Great Tribulation).13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto (eis, to or into) the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."

Since Satan is cast out of heaven Mid-Trib, it looks like we must go up to heaven Mid-Trib.

It looks like Satan will be in the bottomless pit until we are out of range. Then he will come up and enter into the False Prophet.

Rev 17:8 says, "The beast that thou sawest was (i.e., in Judas Iscariot, the first son of perdition), and is not (in man now); and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition (the 2nd son of perdition, the False Prophet): and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were NOT written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

Rev 12:14-17 says, "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place (i.e., Petra), where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (i.e., 1260 days), from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

> > What do you feel the criteria for the 144,000 is?

They are all Israelites, and they all are caught up in the Last-Trump Rapture. They seem to be added to the group of saints caught up in the First-Trump Rapture, because they are called virgins and sing the NEW SONG (Rev 14:1-5). The reason they get a break others do not at that time is because Israel is partially blinded until the Gentiles come in.

Rom_11:25 says, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Eph_3:6 says, "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel".

> > We have been studying idolatry and how almost all religions are involved in it.

Satan started the mystery religions way back in Nimrod's day. It persists because of his efforts. Hislop's "Two Babylons" explains all that thoroughly.

However, there is a good "mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory" (Col 1:27). It looks like Jesus had to leave on Ascension Day because he would return invisibly on Pentecost. He said that he would never leave us.

In Col 1:26-28, Paul said, "Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; WHICH IS CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect IN CHRIST JESUS".

Heb_13:5 says, "Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." That is comforting.

1Co 8:4-6 says, "As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

2Co_5:19 says, "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

> > We have also been discussing how the Bride has made herself ready. Any thoughts on either of those subjects?

Rom_8:10 says, "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."

Rev 19:6-8 says, "Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness (lit., righteousnesses, Green's Interlinear, i.e., Christ's righteousness plus the righteousnesses) of saints."

We are saved by Christ's righteousness being imputed to us when we accept Christ as our Saviour. We earn rewards by our righteous acts, committed because Christ's righteousness is imputed to us.

The NKJ has "the fine linen is the RIGHTEOUS ACTS of the saints", however, righteousnesses (Christ's and ours) seems to cover it better. If we didn't have Christ's righteousness imputed to us, we wouldn't have a white robe at all.

1Co 3:10-15 says, "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." Agape

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