Pro and Con 1703

Posted 4-12-13



If the Tribulation started Dec. 22, 2009, what else happened near that date?


"The international Religious Left often likes to speak of "kairos" moments as specially historic times when Liberation Theology is ostensibly more relevant than ever."

Lutherans Denounce Israel, Just in Time for Christmas
By Mark D. Tooley, Dec. 24, 2009

"Led by a Palestinian Lutheran bishop, 16 Palestinians Christians have blasted Israel in a new declaration that the 4.9 million Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (is obligingly disseminating.

"We...declare that the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land is a sin against God and humanity because it deprives the Palestinians of their basic human rights, bestowed by God," asserted the "Kairos Palestine Document. "It distorts the image of God in the Israeli who has become an occupier just as it distorts this image in the Palestinian living under occupation." Not content to criticize the Jews, the manifesto also excoriates Christians who support Israel. "We declare that any theology, seemingly based on the Bible or on faith or on history, that legitimizes the occupation, is far from Christian teachings, because it calls for violence and holy war in the name of God Almighty, subordinating God to temporary human interests, and distorting the divine image in the human beings living under both political and theological injustice."

"ELCA Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson, from his Chicago office, evidently wasted no time hailing the new appeal, though it simply rehashed traditional Palestinian complaints against Israel, Christian or not. "The ELCA has received with somber, yet hopeful hearts this authentic word from our brothers and sisters in the Palestinian Christian community," Hanson rejoiced. "Their perspective on the current conflict between Israel and the Palestinians warrants our respect and attentiveness." Hanson pledged that we "join these leaders in their search for signs of hope and positive responses in the midst of a dire and seemingly intractable situation."

"The Kairos Palestine Document cited a litany of unpleasant "realities" for Palestinians, for which Israel (backed by Christian allies in the U.S.) is evidently exclusively at fault, beginning with the assertion that "the reality is one of Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, deprivation of our freedom and all that results from this situation."


There were upper waters and lower waters. The lower waters filled our Pacific Basin before Adam was created. The upper waters came down later and floated Noah's Ark.

Isa 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (chatsab, split) Rahab, and wounded the dragon (Satan)?" (all scriptures are from the KJV unless otherwise noted)

Psa_89:10 says, "Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies (i.e., Satan and his fallen angels) with thy strong arm" (the Son of God, Isa. 53:1).

Psa 87:4 says, "I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me".

Psa 89:9-11 says, "Thou rulest the RAGING OF THE SEA: WHEN THE WAVES THEREOF ARISE, thou stillest them. 10 THOU HAST BROKEN RAHAB IN PIECES, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm. 11 THE HEAVENS ARE THINE, THE EARTH ALSO IS THINE".

Psa 104:5,6 says, "Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. 6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains."

Gen 1:6-9 says, "God said, Let there be a firmament (raqiya, espanse of space) in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the WATERS WHICH WERE ABOVE THE FIRMAMENT: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament (shamayim, arch of the sky) Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place (i.e., in the Pacific Basin), and let the dry land appear: and it was so."

It seems that the lower waters from the planet Rahab filled the Pacific Basin in Gen 1:9, and the higher waters hit the Earth at the time of Noah's Flood. We still have water comets hitting our upper atmosphere every day.

As Satan's planet Rahab was hit by an asteroid, Earth was hit by an asteroid that scooped the moon material out of the Pacific Basin, probably so it could contain the waters from Satan's planet Rahab.

Later, Babylon will be hit by an asteroid, Satan's home, Wormwood.

Rev_8:11 says, "And the name of the star is called WORMWOOD: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Nah 1:5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. Nah 1:6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
Nah 1:7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
Nah 1:8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies.
Nah 1:9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time."

Pro 5:3,4 says, "the lips of a strange woman (i.e., the Harlot Church of Babylon) drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil: 4 But HER END IS BITTER AS WORMWOOD, sharp as a twoedged SWORD (i.e., the asteroid Wormwood placed in the eastern sky, to the east of Eden)."

Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (i.e., Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? (the asteroid Wormwood) 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity (taltelah, overthrow), and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL INTO A LARGE (rachab) COUNTRY: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station (min matstsab, military station), and from thy state (min maamad, position) shall he pull thee down" (haras, throw down).

Isa_13:1 says, "The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see."

Isa_13:19 says, "And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah."

Sodom and Gomorrah were hit by an asteroid that split the Earth and formed the Great Rift Valley.

Isa_14:22 says, "For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD."

Isa 21:9 says, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground."

Jer_50:2 is the verse I saw a rectangle of light on. It says, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."

Jer_50:13 says, "Because of the wrath of the LORD it shall not be inhabited, but it shall be wholly desolate: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues."

Jer_50:18 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will punish the king of Babylon and his land, as I have punished the king of Assyria.
Jer_50:23 How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!
Jer_50:24 I have laid a snare for thee, and thou art also taken, O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the LORD.

Jer_50:28 The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of Babylon, to declare in Zion the vengeance of the LORD our God, the vengeance of his temple.

Jer_50:35 A sword is upon the Chaldeans, saith the LORD, and upon the inhabitants of Babylon, and upon her princes, and upon her wise men."

Jer_50:46 At the noise of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved, and the cry is heard among the nations."

Jer_51:1 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind;
Jer_51:2 And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about."

Jer_51:6-9 says, "Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence. 7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. 8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed."9 We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country: for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies."

Jer_51:11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple."

Jer_51:29 And the land shall tremble and sorrow: for every purpose of the LORD shall be performed against Babylon, to make the land of Babylon a desolation without an inhabitant."

Jer_51:33 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; The daughter of Babylon is like a threshingfloor, it is time to thresh her: yet a little while, and the time of her harvest shall come."

Rev_14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev_16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.


Rev_18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Rev_18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

Jer_51:37 And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwellingplace for dragons, an astonishment, and an hissing, without an inhabitant.

Jer_51:41,42 says, "How is Sheshach taken! and how is the praise of the whole earth surprised! how is Babylon become an astonishment among the nations! 42 The sea is come up upon Babylon: she is covered with the multitude of the waves thereof."

Jer_51:44 And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his mouth that which he hath swallowed up: and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall."

Jer_51:47 Therefore, behold, the days come, that I will do judgment upon the GRAVEN IMAGES OF BABYLON: and her whole land shall be confounded, and all her slain shall fall in the midst of her."

Jer_51:48 Then the heaven and the earth, and all that is therein, shall sing for Babylon: for the spoilers shall come unto her from the north, saith the LORD. Jer_51:49 As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth."

Gen 3:24 (NKJV)"So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim (planets) at the east (i.e., in the eastern sky) of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword (Satan's asteroid Wormwood) which turned every way (rotated and orbited), to guard the way (derek, eastward journey) to the tree of life" (which is in the 3rd heaven, Saturn).


Re: great research resource just found .. [notes that Ezekiel I saw, heard, noticed etc should translate 'I became aware of'

Whilst researching Ezekiel just now prompted by your amazing posts, happened across so mentioning it just in case by an outside chance you've not used it.

Almost straight away I noticed that time and again where Ezekiel is traditionally interpreted as saying I saw etc.. example Ez 10:9 As I watched, I noticed 14 four wheels by the cherubim.. the net bible notes say .. The word (hinneh, traditionally "behold") indicates becoming aware of something and has been translated here as a verb

To me, this strongly supports you by indicating that the visions are manifesting [from a clearing sky?].

An intriguing note..10:8 (The cherubim appeared to have the form 13 of human hands under their wings.) 13 tn The Hebrew term is normally used as an architectural term in describing the plan or pattern of the tabernacle or temple or a representation of it (see Exod 25:8; 1 Chr 28:11).

I'll eventually try to go through all instances were 'becoming aware' has been translated as an 'action' verb!


> > Subject: great research resource just found .. [notes that Ezekiel I saw, heard, noticed etc should translate 'I became aware of'

Thanks. It will be useful on other subjects, but not much on this one beyond what you found.

I went there, and found this: "It is best to stay somewhat neutral on specific interpretations of these visions. Obviously it refers to some type of angelic order, which is very closely identified with "the" Throne of God!"

Along with lots of others, they don't have a clue to what Ezekiel's visions represent. That is the kind of statement I found in many of BIOLA's books where the author tried to interpret those visions. Some didn't even try, they just left that part out. Most of the others came up with some kind of angelic creature. They are not angels.

Here is what they said about verse 13: "1:13 This verse tries to describe something that is occurring in the midst of the box formed by the Cherubim wings, the wheels, and the crystal covering. Whatever it was, it was below the throne (cf. v. 26). Notice the parallelism, which attempts to describe the indescribable.
1. burning coals of fire
2. torches darting back and forth among the living beings
3. bright fire
4. lightening flashing from it
One wonders how v. 14 is related to v. 13. The Peshitta, NKJV, and REB translate v. 13 as if it describes the living creatures themselves and not the coals of fire (LXX, NASB, NRSV, TEV, NJB). The answer to this confusion is rectified by JPSOA, which puts a full stop after the first phrase of v. 13, thereby relating it to the living creatures of v. 12.
I assume v. 13 does not describe the Cherubim, but is a sacrificial image going back to the tabernacle. It is uncertain if it refers to (1) coals on the altar of incense, which were used to make good smelling smoke which veiled the view of YHWH, who dwelt between the wings of the Cherubim over the Ark of the Covenant (cf. Exod. 30:1-10; 37:5-28) or (2) the sacrificial altar (cf. Exod. 27:1-8; 38:1-7) at the front of the entrance to the tabernacle/temple where sacrifices (cf. Leviticus 1-7) were brought and given to the priests. These sacrifices allowed sinful humans to approach a holy God!"

After reading things like this for 7 years, I took a different tack. I quit reading BIOLA's books about the Bible and settled down with the Bible and Strong's Concordance. I opened my Bible, put my hands on it and said, "Lord, you're going to have to show me," and started looking up every word in the original. After that, I finally figured it out WITH THE LORD'S HELP.

The cherubim are the four terrestrial planets. The "fire infolding itself" in verse 4 is the Sun. One of the cherubim is the Earth.

Verse 15 says, "Now as I beheld the living creatures (i.e., lively things that fly), behold one wheel (i.e., orbit) upon the EARTH by the living creatures (by Mercury, Venus and Mars), with his four faces" (i.e., Earth faces four directions all at the same time, because it is a full orb, a globe). Those 4 faces, lion, man, ox, and eagle, were on the flags placed at the compass points, East, South, West and North, when Israel camped around the Tabernacle.

Eze 1:13 says, "As for the likeness (symbolic language) of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning."

Josephus was a Pharisee priest. He had been in the Temple. He indicated in Ant. III.VI.7 that the lampstand represented the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.

In verse 13, I think "it" stands for the asteroid Wormwood, Satan's home at the present time. It orbits among the terrestrial planets (the cherubim), and it will hit Earth on the Day of God's Wrath. It seems to be an Apollo Asteroid, one whose orbit crosses Earth's orbit, like 2012 DA14, that came closer to Earth than any other Apollo asteroid has on Feb. 14, the same day a meteor exploded over Russia. The Lord was giving us signs of things to come. He is in complete control. Those two rocks came at the Earth from different directions. For them to come at the same time seems impossible, but not with God.

"Scientists point out that we have never detected an asteroid this large passing so close to our planet."

"CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. — A 150-foot asteroid hurtled through Earth's backyard Friday, coming within an incredible 17,150 miles and making the closest known flyby for a rock of its size. In a chilling coincidence, a meteor exploded above Russia just hours before the asteroid zoomed past the planet.

"Scientists the world over, along with NASA, insisted the meteor had nothing to do with the asteroid since they appeared to be traveling in opposite directions."

"A 130,000-ton asteroid sped by the Earth by the narrowest of margins Friday, just hours after an unrelated meteor exploded over Russia."

By Robert Lee Hotz
"Planetary experts at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration said the 150-foot-wide asteroid, known as 2012 DA14, made the closest-known approach of such a large piece of cosmic debris since space experts started tracking objects that intersect Earth's path."

Two large rocks will hit Earth on the Day of the Lord, the Day of God's Wrath.

Rev 8:5-11 says, "And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an EARTHQUAKE. 6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. 7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. 8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great MOUNTAIN burning with fire was cast into the sea (the Mediterranean): and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. 10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great STAR (aster, star, asteroid or meteorite) from heaven, burning as it were a LAMP, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers (i.e., including the Tigris and Euphrates), and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood (meaning bitter): and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Of this, Eze 10:1,2 says, "Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament (i.e., expanse of space) that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them (i.e., farther out in space than the terrestrial planets) as it were (i.e., as if it were, symbolic language) a sapphire stone (which as September's birthstone, means heaven), as the appearance of the likeness (symbolic language) of a throne (Christ's on Saturn; according to Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear). 2 And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels (i.e., orbits), even under the cherub (Satan), and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims (terrestrial planets), and scatter them over the city (Jerusalem). And he went in in my sight."

I had thought the asteroid Wormwood would break in two at the Roche Limit, 11,000 miles out. Small rocks fall like figs falling off of a fig tree in the wind. However, since we have that recent sign to go by, the two rocks may come in from two different directions, each shedding smaller rocks at the Roche Limit.

Eze 10:8 says, "And there appeared in the cherubims the form (tabniyth, likeness, similitude) of a man's (adam, meaning red clay) hand, under their wings" (kanaph, quarters).

The word hand is translated from yad, which can be used figuratively, and it is here. All four terrestrial planets have red clay on all four quarters.

Rev_20:8 says, "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the FOUR QUARTERS OF THE EARTH, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

> > Almost straight away I noticed that time and again where Ezekiel is traditionally interpreted as saying I saw etc.. example Ez 10:9 As I watched, I noticed 14 four wheels by the cherubim.. the net bible notes say .. The word ?????? (hinneh, traditionally "behold") indicates becoming aware of something and has been translated here as a verb

> > To me, this strongly supports you by indicating that the visions are manifesting [from a clearing sky?].

Thanks. The four concentric wheels are the orbits. What other wheel does Earth have?

Ezekiel looked up in the sky. In the center, he saw the fire infolding itself, the Sun. He saw Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars orbiting in concentric circles around the Sun. He saw the Asteroid Belt as a cloud orbiting outside of Mars. I dragged the picture of it here, but the computer put it above. I don't know how to get it down here. Windows 7 has a mind of its own.

Well, I learned something as I went through this. The two rocks that will hit Earth on the Day of God's Wrath could come in from different directions. That might be God's plan so the Earth doesn't get shoved around more than is necessary. We know it gets turned upside down, but it regains its equilibrium.

The day it gets turned upside down is Jesus' Long Day, of which Joshua's Long Day is a type.

Isa_24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof."

I love to learn something new. It makes my day. Agape

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