Pro and Con 1737

Posted 7-26-13


Rev_21:18 says, "And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass."

Rev_21:21 says, "And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass."

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: Parable of the Ten Virgins

...I was reading the comments between you and David Blackman and your statement below caught be by surprise.

> > "The foolish virgins have lighted lamps. They just do not have extra oil to keep them burning brightly for a long time. They are already sputtering, threatening to go out. They just have enough to be saved. They need extra Holy Spirit to make it through the hard times that will precede the last Rapture.

Are you saying that some of those who are saved will not be included in the first rapture?

Also, I would like to get your thoughts on Matthew 24:31 - who are "his elect"? Thanks again


> > Are you saying that some of those who are saved will not be included in the first rapture?

Yes! As far as I can tell, that is the main reason there are two Raptures, one at Rev 4:1 and one between Rev 6:17 and 7:14.

Rev 3:14-16 says, "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue (lit., vomit) thee out of my mouth."

We don't want to be Laodiceans. We want to be Philadelphians. They are the ones with the open door set before them in Rev 3:8.

> > Also, I would like to get your thoughts on Matthew 24:31 - who are "his elect"?

Mat 24:31 says, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other."

The elect there are those that have already been caught up to Heaven in the First-Trump Rapture.

Mar 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN."

Those in Heaven are the wise virgins.

Those caught up from the EARTH are the foolish virgins, the 144,000 Israelites and the Tribulation saints. Agape


"Israel to free 'heavyweight' Palestinian prisoners"

Release of prisoners who have been in jail for decades comes as part of agreement to enter preliminary peace talks in US

Harriet Sherwood, July 20,13

Israel has said it will release "heavyweight" Palestinian prisoners as part of an agreement to enter preliminary talks in Washington, with the aim of an eventual resumption of long-stalled peace negotiations.

Hours after the US secretary of state, John Kerry, announced that the two sides in the conflict had agreed to discuss terms for negotiations, Yuval Steiniz, Israel's minister for international relations, said a prisoner release would be carried out in stages....

But Steinitz said Israel would balk at agreeing on the pre-1967 border as the parameter for territorial negotiations. "There is no chance we will agree to enter any negotiations that begin with defining territorial borders or concessions by Israel, nor a [settlement] construction freeze," he said.

Kerry's announcement of progress in his four-month mission to revive the Middle East peace process was delivered in Amman on Friday night after four months of intensive diplomacy. It received mixed interpretations.

Tzipi Livni, who will represent the Israeli side in the preliminary talks and is a long-term advocate of negotiations, hailed the move as a significant breakthrough.

"These were long months of scepticism and cynicism," she said in a statement. "But now, four years of diplomatic stagnation are about to end." The talks would be "complex and not easy", she said, but this was "the right thing for our future, our security, our economy and values".

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Charles (23 July 2013) "Full moon watch"

There is another full moon June 22nd. The other signs in the news the EQs popping off in New Zealand lead me to say if anyone sees invertabrates and starfish wash ashore tommorow night on the west coast per my dream this could be a sign of an EQ and three days later is Thursday my favorite rapture watch day. I am a feast of trumpets kind of guy and am beginning to believe although I am running in oil fumes we have till fall. But my belief is I was given a particular sign to watch for starfish washing up on Coranado beach on a full moon. In the dream that was a three set EQ warning. It has yet to come to pass.

My other dream of Thursday rapture has not either but it amazes me on how many watch and feast dates its a Thursday.

Please understand what few do Jesus said abide in Him come out of this world walk in the spirit not the flesh its hard but the only path that leads where you want to go.

Only Jesus saves.


I just want to remind you that both Sept. 19 (Tabernacles) and Sept. 26 (8th day of Tabernacles) will be on Thursday.

However, only Sept. 19 is the date of this year's harvest moon. Agape

Have Egypt's long lost pyramids really been found on Google Earth?

Historical maps show sandy mound may hide monument larger than Giza

Sandy mounds discovered by an American scientist in the Egyptian desert are labelled as pyramids on 34 rare, antique maps

Archaeology researcher Angela Micol's find was dismissed by many but a preliminary ground study has found shafts and cavities

One site spotted on satellite is three times the size of Great Pyramid at Giza

By Sarah Griffiths, 19 July 2013

Mounds of sand spotted in the Egyptian desert using Google Earth might be the site of long-lost pyramids.

American archaeology researcher Angela Micol pinpointed two areas along the Nile basin, 90 miles apart, both containing unusual shaped mounds last year....

Micol said: 'I was contacted by an Egyptian couple who claimed to have important historical references for both sites.'

Keen collectors of maps, Medhat Kamal El-Kady, former ambassador to the Sultanate of Oman and his wife Haidy Farouk Abdel-Hamid, a former counselor of the Egyptian presidency, said that the formations spotted by Micol were labelled as pyramids in several of their antique documents and maps.

They told Discovery News they have 34 maps and 12 documents written by scientists and officials that support Micol's claims.


"...a new study from archeologists at the University of Tubingen in Germany indicates that prehistoric people living just outside Mesopotamia, but still within the Fertile Crescent, in modern-day Iran cultivated cereal grains between 12,000 (i.e., 9987 BC) and 9,800 (7787 BC) years ago."

7787 BC was 3744 years before Adam's creation in 4043 BC. These "prehistoric people" were "the angels which kept not their first estate".

Jude 1:6 says, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: "Marilyn...ten virgins"

> > I must not have made it clear enough. I will try again.

> > How could the five foolish virgins be called "virgins" if they were not saved? The way we get into that category is to accept Christ as our own personal Saviour. Our lamps are lit when we are saved.

> > The foolish virgins have lighted lamps. They just do not have extra oil to keep them burning brightly for a long time. They are already sputtering, threatening to go out. They just have enough to be saved. They need extra Holy Spirit to make it through the hard times that will precede the last Rapture. Those will be the days when they will be tried.

I would like to take this opportunity to give my understanding of the parable of the 10 virgins.

1. All are virgins - To me this means all have kept themselves pure. They have done all the right things!

2. All have lamps - Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

3. All slumbered and slept - seems pretty clear to me.

4. All arose, and trimmed their lamps - All are doing the right things.

5. 5 foolish took no oil with them - here is the only difference between the two. The foolish took no oil, none, not even a little bit or even a drop, NONE!

6. 5 wise took oil in their vessels - The wise had just enough for themselves.

You said that the foolish had run out of oil or are sputtering to go out. It seems very clear to me that the foolish have no oil to begin with. Being virgins or doing the right things will not save you, nor will having the word of God save you. To me you must have the oil or the Holy Spirit to be saved. I am sure they will be saved in the tribulation time though! One more thought that I would like to bring out here is that you have made an assumption that the five foolish virgins are the Laodiceans. There is no direct link between the Laodiceans and the foolish virgins in the parable! I agree the Laodiceans are foolish but they are not the ones from this parable though.

I hope I have made myself clear enough here.

Marilyn I do agree with most of what you say and love to read what you write. I am in no way attacking you and if we need to just disagree that is fine. I do look forward to meeting you and Ed when we are all soon with Jesus!


> > 5 foolish took no oil with them - here is the only difference between the two. The foolish took no oil, none, not even a little bit or even a drop, NONE!

The foolish virgins had oil in their lamps. They just didn't have any in an extra vessel.

Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

How were "all" trimming their lamps if some were not burning.

Mat 25:8 (KJV) says, "And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone (sbennumi, being quenched, i.e., going) out."

NKJV: "And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'"

These versions also say "going out":


You wrote "it would only normally be blown on feast days"

Tabernacles is a feast of 7 days.

Wouldn't the trumpet be blown every day of the feast, including the last day and Great Day of Tabernacles?

Just wondering? Agape


I have been looking, but have not found any record of the trumpet being blown after the first day of Tabernacles.

However, I did turn this up: the Rapture of the "precious fruit of the earth" will be after the former and latter rain. Among things written by others, I read all Greg Killian wrote about the Feast of Tabernacles.

Jas 5:7,8 says, "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

The former rain starts on Tishri 1 (First Advent of Jesus). The latter rain starts on Nisan 1 (Second Advent of Jesus).

As far as I can tell, the trumpet is sounded 100 times on the Feast of Trumpets, the great trump, one time on the Day of Atonement, and the trumpet one time on the first day of Tabernacles.

Psalm 81:3 says full moon on the feast day in these versions:

1. NIV: "Sound the ram's horn at the New Moon, and when the MOON IS FULL, on the day of our Feast; this is a decree for Israel, an ordinance of the God of Jacob."

2. NKJV: "Blow the trumpet at the time of the New Moon, at the FULL MOON, on our solemn feast day.

3. NLT: "Blow the ram's horn at new moon, and again at FULL MOON to call a festival!

4. ESV: "Blow the trumpet at the new moon, at the FULL MOON, on our feast day.

5. NASB: "Blow the trumpet at the new moon, At the FULL MOON, on our feast day.

6. RSV: "Blow the trumpet at the new moon, at the FULL MOON, on our feast day.

7. ASV: "Blow the trumpet at the new moon, At the FULL MOON, on our feast-day.

8. HNV: "Blow the shofar at the New Moon, At the FULL MOON, on our feast day."

On one of my searches, I found this about the Feast of Trumpets: "How did they decide that this was the day of the year the world was created? Because the first words of the Book of Genesis (Bereishit), "in the beginning," when changed around, read, Aleph b'Tishrei, or "on the first of Tishrei." Therefore, Rosh HaShanah is known as the birthday of the world, for tradition tells us that the world was created then."

I counted it on Tishri 1, because the Sacred Calendar was not in use yet.

I found this interesting bit, but it doesn't mention a trumpet at Tabernacles:
Taken with permission from THE SEVEN FESTIVALS OF THE MESSIAH By Eddie Chumney " In the first century, the last trump (shofar) meant a specific day in the year. In Judaism, there are three trumpets (shofarim) that have a name. They are the first trump, the last trump, and the great trump. Each one of these trumpets indicates a specific day in the Jewish year. The first trump is blown on the Feast of Shavuot (Pentecost) (Exodus [Shemot] 19:19). It proclaimed that G-d had betrothed Himself to Israel. The last trump is synonymous with Rosh HaShanah, according to Theodore Gaster in his book, Festivals of the Jewish Year, in his chapter on Rosh HaShanah. Herman Kieval also states the same thing in his book, The High Holy Days (Volume I, Rosh HaShanah, Chapter 5, Footnote 11), in the chapter on the shofar. The great trumpet is blown on Yom Kippur, which will herald the return of the Messiah Yeshua back to earth (Matthew [Mattityahu] 24:31)."

If the trumpet on Yom Kippur heralds the Second Advent, the Second Advent can't be on Trumpets. I think it will be on Nisan 1, the first day of the Regnal, Jubilee and Sacred years. Agape

INCOMING EMAIL, Re: Come unto me and drink

You wrote "it would only normally be blown on feast days"

Tabernacles is a feast of 7 days.

Wouldn't the trumpet be blown every day of the feast, including the last day and Great Day of Tabernacles?

Just wondering? Agape


Thanks. "COME UNTO ME" on the 7th Day of Tabernacles sounds just right. So does the eighth day when they went home. Also, the 8th day will be THURSDAY.

You almost won me over. Then I remembered that the trumpet has to sound, and it would only normally be blown on feast days or the first of each month. Tishri 15 is the Feast of Tabernacles. That will be Sept 19, the night of the yearly "Harvest Moon". We are a harvest. That is also the full moon in case Proverbs 7:20 applies. Agape

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Garry B (20 July 2013) "To DP - reference your post 'AND THEY SANG A NEW SONG""

Notice the differences between Rev. 5:9 and Rev. 14:3

In Rev. 5:9, they sang a new song. The "they" are the four beast and 24 elders who are singing a new song.

In Rev. 14:3, they sang as it were a new song, which implies it was not a new song but only a new song to them. Also, no one could learn that song except for the 144,000 and they were singing it to the 4 beast and 24 elders.


Rev 5:8-10 says, "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth."

I think "they" in verse 9 refers back to "saints" who are out of every nation. The elders are all Israelites, 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles.

In the second Rapture, 144,000 more Israelites get to sing the new song.

Of what advantage is it to be able to sing the new song?

Psa 149:1-9 says, "Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG, and his praise in the congregation of saints. 2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. 3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. 4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. 5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. 6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand; 7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; 8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; 9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD."

Verse 9 in the HNV says, "To execute on them the written judgment. All his HOLY ONES have this honor. Praise the LORD!"

R.B. Thieme used to say to work now and rest in heaven.

Psa 149 sounds like we will be resting. Agape



RE: "STAR OF DAVID - The Cosmic Countdown".

Thanks for a good article.

> > Perhaps this New Jerusalem will actually be a Star Tetrahedron; a Star of David in 3 or 4-deminsinal aspects. Based on the given measurements that are described in Ezekiel, many speculate that the New Jerusalem will be a 'cube' or a 'pyramid' in shape. Both geometric configurations are valid as both measurements concur, from a 3-dimensional point of view. What if it is actually both one in the same, a Star Tetrahedron? Basically it would be 2 intertwined 3-deminsional pyramids within a square.

Rev 21:16 says, "And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal."

I think the heavenly New Jerusalem will be a globe. It will have equal length, breadth and height.

> > When we see visions of the Throne Room of the Lord in the Bible, it is always a perfect cube, as with the Tabernacle of Moses, the Temples, The New Jerusalem, etc.

The cubed Holy of Holies represented Heaven, which is a globe with equal length, breadth and height that would fit inside a cube with equal length, breadth and height.

The Holy Place represented two globes that would fit inside those two cubes, Mars and Jupiter. The Temple represented our three heavens, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. The altar and brazen sea represented Earth.

Josephus, a Pharisee priest, let us know that the lampstand represented the Sun and naked-eye planets. They were (1) Sun, (2) Mercury, (3) Venus, (4) Earth, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter, and (7) Saturn.

The four terrestrial planets Ezekiel saw orbiting around the Sun were Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars.

Earth's three heavens are (1) Mars, (2) Jupiter and (3) Saturn.

Saturn is the 3rd heaven Paul was caught up to in II Cor 12:2-4.

> > As the New Jerusalem will incorporate some of the same elements & principles of the movable Throne of God as described in Ezekiel; having 'wheels within a wheel', perhaps this New Jerusalem will be also some sort of a Merkavah. This 'chariot of God' as described in the Bible seems to be a vehicle that transfer or transport the LORD. Perhaps the New Jerusalem will have this Merkavah like properties to portal itself into our space & time dimension. Is this far-fetched? The Star of David sacred geometry alludes to this possibility....

The picture above shows us just what Ezekiel saw in Eze 1.

Eze 1:4-6 says, "And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. 6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings."

The fire infolding itself is the Sun. Around it orbit four terrestrial planets, Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars. Their orbits look like wheels within wheels.

Eze 1:15 says, "Now as I beheld the living creatures (lively things), behold ONE WHEEL (orbit) UPON THE EARTH by the living creatures, with his four faces."

Earth's four faces are the four directions it faces as it orbits., east (represented by the lion on the flag at the east when Israel camped around the Tabernacle), south (represented by the man), west (represented by the ox) and north (represented by the eagle).

> > The Star of David alignments appear to have definite numerical patterns with corresponding symmetry to other Star of David alignments & with Total Lunar Eclipses. There are 13 Star of David planetary alignments that occur since 1990. The 13th Star of David alignment will be the 'last one' leading up to the Tetrad of 2014-2015. Like the Total Solar Eclipses on the 1st of Av that occurred in 2008, 2009 & 2010 that starting the 'countdown' to the 7 year Solar-Lunar pattern, it appears that this same principle or 'astronomical law' is also at work with the Star of David alignment pattern leading to some sort of a cosmic countdown....

> > Perhaps the Rapture of the Bride of Christ might possibly be connected to such a unique pattern of the Star of David alignments from 1990 to 2013; they do appear to be a plausible 'Signs'. Maybe they are signaling something prophetic that is to be 'birthed'. Perhaps we are entering into a time where there will be a 'birthing' of multiple prophetic events in these Last Days. Will the Rapture be one of them? We shall see within a year & a half time.

I'm hoping for Tabernacles, Sept. 19, 2013. Agape

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