Pro and Con 1740

Posted 8-4-13


Eze 1:1 "the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (i.e., the God/man Jesus) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about (i.e., Saturn's rings). This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

INCOMING EMAIL FROM ANNETTE, RE: Breaking: Richard Coombes is in Heaven! - #3 America the Babylon

Richard's step-daughter, Kim, and I had a telephone conversation this morning; I have approval to continue to publish the excerpts/summaries of his book 'America, The Babylon.' Richard's conclusions are controversial as there are other speculations of who/what is 'Mystery Babylon;' BUT the research and data he compiled in his eleven year study is valuable for us whichever 'Babylon' concept we ascribe to. In my view, it is reasonable and logical that the USA is the 'Mystery Babylon' of the Bible, therefore, I am in agreement with R. A. Coombes.

America, the Babylon
Copyright: 1998
R. A. Coombes

Ancient Babylon
Excerpt: Installment #3

The future Babylon in the Old Testament

The city of Babylon is the most mentioned of Gentile cities in the Bible; it is directly mentioned 286 times [KJV]. Only Jerusalem has greater mention. Two of the major prophets, Isaiah and Jeremiah record what God told them about the future Babylon; this future city is separate and distinct from the Babylon of their day.

Isaiah and Jeremiah account for more than eighty direct references to the future city/state/nation; sixty-four are found in two chapters of Jeremiah 50 & 51 [1]. Isaiah accounts for twenty four in Isaiah 13-14, 18, 47.

The Apostle John also has information describing the modern day Babylon in the Book of Revelation 17-18.

For us today, it's difficult to fathom that 2500 years ago society, nation divisions and control was organized differently. The city was the dominant feature in the way society organized; it was the capital of an 'empire' and seldom did it contain cities of rival size or power. Today nations in general have several if not many cities.

The Future Babylon Prophecies of Isaiah & Jeremiah Have been Misunderstood and Misapplied

Many Bible experts have concluded that many Isaiah & Jeremiah prophecies have already occurred; and some have. Babylon becoming a desert ... 'where desert animals live and no man resides' [2]. In reality, ancient Babylon ... the city... has been deserted for nearly 1000 years. It did NOT occur in the manner described in the future prophecies. The old national empire of Babylon has remained inhabited by man.

Also, the demise of ancient Babylon was a slow process dissolving into nothingness. The book of Revelation 18:10, it says Babylon's demise took place in one hour. [3]

Other Incorrect Concepts

Babylon will be rebuilt and then destroyed in Iraq
Cynics and liberal theologians refuse to accept that prophecies are literally possible; they believe they are fantasies and impossible for people to predict the future. They fail to understand that God directly conveyed these prophecies. Future Babylon is Rome and the Roman Catholic Church

Specific prophecy data clearly points to a physical city/state/nation including facts about:

economics, commodities, politics, armed forces, more The Rome theory can't be correct because the empire must be superior and has no equal, but Rome:

never went to the moon
never conquered any nation with foreign aid
doesn't have the largest Jewish population
is not a deep-water port city

[Page 52-54 has itemized scriptures listed from Jeremiah 50-51 and Isaiah 13 with brief descriptions of content.]

Richard A. Coombes
This is up to page 55 in the book ... more to come

Jeremiah 50-51:

Isaiah 13-14, 18, 47:

[2] Babylon no man lives - Jeremiah 50:39:

[3] Demise of Babylon- Rev 18:10:

"And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." Revelation 14:8


I think Babylon is near the Euphrates River in the land of the Chaldeans. It is a city, not a country.


2Sa_7:23 says, "And what one (echad, united) nation (i.e., the United States) in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?"

1Ch_17:21 And what one (echad, united) nation in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his own people, to make thee a name of greatness and terribleness, by driving out nations from before thy people, whom thou hast redeemed out of Egypt?"

I think Vatican City will be moved to Babylon city near the Euphrates in the land of the Chaldeans, then Vatican City will be burned.

Rev 17:15-18 says, "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and BURN HER WITH FIRE. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast (i.e., the False Prophet), until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great CITY (i.e., Vatican City), which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

Babylon's destruction on the Day of God's Wrath will come in one day, which it didn't before. They just dwindled away, little by little.

Isa 47:9-11 says of Babylon, "But these two things shall come to thee IN A MOMENT IN ONE DAY, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments. 10 For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me. 11 says, "Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee SUDDENLY, which thou shalt not know."

Jer_46:10 says, "For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword (i.e., the 'flaming sword' of Gen 3:24, the asteroid Wormwood of Rev 8:11) shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country BY THE RIVER EUPHRATES."

One time long ago, in the late sixties or early seventies, tired of typing on Ed's portable typewriter all day, I grabbed my closed Bible by the heel at twilight and plopped down across the bed, saying to myself, "Why am I doing all this?"

In the darkened room, my Bible had opened by itself right under my face, and there was a rectangle of light on one verse.

I read Jer 50:2 over and over. It said, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."

The first verse said, "The word that the LORD spake against Babylon and against the LAND OF THE CHALDEANS by Jeremiah the prophet". The land of the Chaldeans is not America. It is near the Euphrates River.

I had been writing about the 3 Babylons: Babel (Nimrod's), Babylon II (Nebuchadnezzar's), and Babylon III (the False Prophet's). I think all three exist in the same spot in the land of the CHALDEANS.

The verses 3 and 4 said, "For out of the north (i.e., the northern sky) there cometh up a nation (i.e., Satan's asteroid Wormwood) against her, which shall make her land desolate, and none shall dwell therein: they shall remove, they shall depart, both man and beast. 4 In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God."

Jer 50:23-25 says, "How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations! 24 I have laid a snare for thee, and thou art also taken, O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the LORD. 25 The LORD hath opened his armoury, and hath brought forth the weapons of his indignation (i.e., the 'flaming sword' of Gen 3:24): for this is the work of the Lord GOD of hosts in the land of the CHALDEANS."

Rev 18:21 tells us how it will be destroyed on the day of God's wrath. "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone (representing the asteroid Wormwood), and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great CITY BABYLON be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

Isa 22:5 says, "it is a day of trouble".

Isa 22:16 - 19 says, "What hast thou here? (i.e., Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? (i.e., the asteroid Wormwood, Rev 8:11) 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country (Iraq, not tiny Israel): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

The asteroid Wormwood will probably light the Lake of Fire.

Rev_20:10 says, "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. "

We already have one perpetually burning pit of fire. This giant hole of fire in the Karakum Desert in Derweze, Turkmenistan, is not the aftermath of an attack on Earth from space.

It is a crater made by geologists 42 years ago. The natural-gas-fed flames within have been burning ever since. The locals have called it "the door to Hell". The blaze began when geologists decided to burn off natural gas they discovered while drilling at the site.

They had tapped into a cavern filled with natural gas, but the ground beneath the drilling rig collapsed, leaving a 70-meter-wide pit of perpetual fire that no one has been able to put out.

Zech 5:1-4 says, "Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll (i.e., an orbiting asteroid) 2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll (i.e., rolling thing); the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. 3 Then said he unto me, THIS IS THE CURSE THAT GOETH FORTH OVER THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH (i.e., it is the asteroid Wormwood before it breaks into two pieces, probably at the Roche Limit, 11,000 miles out): for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it. 4 I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

Continuing, Zech 5:5-11 says, "Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see WHAT IS THIS that goeth forth. 6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah (a measure for wheat, i.e., a church) that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth (i.e., the Catholic [meaning universal], church). 7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman (church) that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. 8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. 9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women (probably Catholics and Protestants), and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. 10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? 11 And he said unto me, TO BUILD IT AN HOUSE IN THE LAND OF SHINAR: AND IT SHALL BE ESTABLISHED, AND SET THERE UPON HER OWN BASE."

Her base is the foundation of the Tower of Babel in the land of Shinar.

Gen 11:2-4 says, "And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of SHINAR; and they dwelt there. 3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. 4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth."

Isa_30:25 says, "And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall."

Not only will there be a tsunami caused by a piece of the asteroid hitting the NE corner of the Mediterranean Sea (Rev 8:8), but the world will be turned upside down. That will be Jesus' Long Day, of which Joshua's Long Day was a type.

On that day, "Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces." Agape

Will we go up on Tabernacles?

Chag Ha'Asif, the Festival of the Ingathering

2 Cor 5:1 says, "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle is taken down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in heaven. For indeed in this we groan, greatly desiring to be clothed with our dwelling place out of heaven."

Tabernacles is the Feast of Ingathering, the Feast of Harvest, the Feast of the end of Harvest. Is it the last day of our living in temporary bodies? shelters?

For the Jews, it was the day to go UP to Jerusalem. On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." John 7:37-38

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Patty RP (30 July 2013) "For Mrs. Agee re: New Jerusalem and Saturn"

Thank you so much for the interesting letter your wrote here:

I never before thought of New Jerusalem as a globe. I have thought that it would be some sort of mother ship (father ship?) traveling space craft. I am also positive it would never be in the shape of a pyramid, as I have stated. You make a very good case about a globe, though. Scripture does say that the New Jerusalem is 12,000 furlongs (Rev. 21:16), making it around 1500 miles. That is about 1/2 the size of the United States.

We know that the secret society elites seem to covet Saturn. When Diana was brought before the world when Charles announced his engagement to her, she wore a sapphire blue dress and an elegant blue sapphire engagement ring. Kate Middleton wore the same colors at the announcement of her engagement to dress, and the exact same blue sapphire ring.

If you have noticed, the elites wear 'saturn hats'. The vatican has them, and I have seen the royals wearing fancy versions of it, themselves. It is half a globe (top of the hat), and the brim going around it symbolizes the rings of Saturn.

I have seen some write and say that Saturn sounds like 'satan'...and because of that they think it's an evil planet. Then, there is that hexagon at the north pole of Saturn shown in the Cassini photos, which some also think has an evil connotation. I found out something interesting, though....

If you have one of those old Rubik's cubes, and hold it down and away from you, the outermost edges of it are in the shape of a hexagon...even though it's cube! Just count the outermost sides, there are 6 of them. Wouldn't it be something if it were really a 'cube' on the north pole of Saturn?? These are just my thoughts, and I'm not stating it as fact...but it's something to ponder.

In any event, *all* the planets and everything in the universe belongs to God. The elites can covet whatever they want, but it will never belong to 'them'.

Thanks again for your most interesting letters. YsiChrist, Patty RP


I'm glad you enjoyed what I wrote.

Thanks for the information about the Saturn hats and sapphire blue worn by the royals. I have a picture of Pope Benedict wearing his Saturn hat, but didn't realize that others wore it too. I totally missed the sapphire blue link to the royals.

> > Scripture does say that the New Jerusalem is 12,000 furlongs (Rev. 21:16), making it around 1500 miles. That is about 1/2 the size of the United States.

Thanks for that correlation. It makes it easier to picture in my mind. The diameter of the Moon is 2159 miles, so New Jerusalem will be smaller than our Moon.

> > Wouldn't it be something if it were really a 'cube' on the north pole of Saturn?? These are just my thoughts, and I'm not stating it as fact...but it's something to ponder.

Below is what I posted about the hexagon on Pro and Con 1738 (


"Saturn's hexagon recreated in the laboratory"
By Emily Lakdawalla, 2010/05/04

"In the paper, Aguiar et al. run through a mathematical model that shows how the steep gradient in wind speed can set up a wavelike motion of this high-latitude jet, and that there are likely to be exactly six waves encircling the planet, setting up the hexagon (something that I explain in more detail here), and that wave propagates at about exactly the same speed as the jet flows (meaning that the hexagon will appear nearly stationary with respect to Saturn's rotation). Moreover, they show that the observed wind conditions near the south pole are sufficiently different from those near the north pole that the south pole is not predicted to produce a similar wave, which is good, because there's no hexagon at Saturn's south pole.

"Having shown that the idea of wind speed gradients driving the formation of the hexagonal wave, they moved to the laboratory. Fun ensued, and science too.

"They set up a cylindrical, rotatable tank 10 centimeters deep and 60 centimeters wide. The tank had a lid and base that were split into concentric sections. They could rotate the inner circle of the lid and floor of the tank at a different rate than they rotated the outer circle of the tank and floor, setting up a gradient in the flow speed of the liquid at the joint between the inner and outer circles. Depending on the relative speeds of the two disks, different things happened. At low relative speeds, there was nothing particularly unusual in the flow, just rotation of the water in the tank. But as the gradient between the two rotating sections was increased, wavelike instabilities started forming at the boundary between the two disks. Depending on conditions, the waves evolved chaotically or sometimes quite stably; there might be as few as two or as many as eight waves encircling the axis of rotation. But for a reasonably wide range of experimental parameters, they produced a wavenumber of 6: a hexagon."

> > I have seen some write and say that Saturn sounds like 'satan'...and because of that they think it's an evil planet.

I think Saturn is where Jesus' throne is located. Naturally, Satan would try to play it down. In pagan religions, Saturn is pictured as old man time, dressed in black and holding a scythe. Since Saturn is the slowest of the planets, its metal was pictured as lead.


First, we need to figure out what the 4 lively flying things in Eze 1 represent, the four terrestrial planets, Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars.

Josephus, a Pharisee priest, indicated that the lamps on the lampstand stood for the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. (Ant. III. VI. 7). Saturn is the outermost naked-eye planet, so it is the last planet we should consider in Ezekiel 1.


Eze 1:15 says, "Now as I beheld the living creatures (lively flying things), behold one wheel (orbit) upon the EARTH by the living creatures, with his four faces." Earth faces 4 directions and orbits in 4 directions. Earth was represented by the middle lamp on the lampstand.

Eze 1:1 says, "the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of GOD."

Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (i.e., farther out in space than the four terrestrial planets) was the likeness (symbolic language) of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone (probably an amber sapphire): and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of A MAN (i.e., the only God/man, Jesus) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of AMBER (i.e., Saturn looks amber to us), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about (i.e., Saturn's ring system). 28 As the appearance of the bow (i.e., rainbow) that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face".

The sapphire comes in many colors, including amber, not just dark blue. I will post pictures of sapphire colors on Pro and Con 1738 in a few days. In Eze 1:26, I assume that the appearance of the sapphire is amber. We have recent pictures of Saturn with a huge storm. The storm clouds look like flames. That may be what Ezekiel saw on the lower half of Saturn. Agape

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Jim Bramlett (20 July 2013) "Part 2: Stunning vision in Israel"

A few hours ago, I forwarded to you the below vision from Israel. It said: "I saw darkness all over the nation(s) except Israel. She was illuminated with light and I turned to my right and saw the Bride of Messiah illuminated with glorious light even myself and then I turned toward Israel. Her light got brighter and then again I look to my right and saw the Bride of Messiah shoot up in the air like rockets going off. I remember the Lord said to me Time is ripe and this is the last season. Nothing that is going on with you matters anymore. I am coming."

At the time I did not realize that for the past 2-3 days I have been very vividly sensing in my spirit that darkness was, indeed, covering the earth. In fact, just this day, I was planning on looking up that Scripture in Isaiah 60:1-3 and writing about it.

Duh. I did not make the connection at the time, but it dawned on me later. Duh. Sometimes I am slow!

Here is the connection: Just when I was going to look up Isaiah 60:1-3, I get the above message today of the vision in Israel. The vision and what was in my spirit, plus the timing, clicked perfectly. See if you don't agree:

"Arise, shine, for your light has come,
and the glory of the LORD rises upon you.
See, darkness covers the earth
and thick darkness is over the peoples,
but the LORD rises upon you
and his glory appears over you.
Nations will come to your light,
and kings to the brightness of your dawn." Isaiah 60:1-3

I take this as a dramatic confirmation from the Lord of that earlier word. Jim


Thank you for telling us about this vision. This "last season" should end at the autumn equinox, Sept. 22, 2013. I hope we get out of here on Tabernacles, Thur. Sept. 19.

Thanks too for your part in the Five Doves. I look forward to reading it every day. Agape

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