Pro and Con 178, Updated 9-17-98, PM

Incoming Email

Jim Bramlett wrote: Re: Jerusalem Rabbi's understanding
Dear friends:
I am still intrigued by the reported revelation in late 1996 of the (Messianic) Orthodox Jewish rabbi in Jerualem, as reported by friend Barbara Richmond, who had met him under startling, supernatural circumstances in 1995 (see story at http://www.yeshuatheking.org/bramlett_files.html).

Because of who the rabbi is, a believing, dedicated Jew in the Holy City where Yeshua walked, I have a special respect for his insights and ability to hear from Yahweh and the Ruach ha Kodesh (Holy Spirit).

In summary, the rabbi saw the timing of Israel entering its end-time priestly role dictated by God's own pattern for priesthood -- that priests had to be at least 30 years old and not more than 50, according to Numbers 4 (I note repeated SEVEN times, verses 3, 23, 30, 35, 39, 43 and 47). Based on recapturing Jerusalem in June, 1967, he saw Jerusalem "at least 30" in June, 1997, and Israel "not more than 50" in 1998. The rabbi also said that for this to happen, the church would have to first be removed -- in other words, the rapture (an interesting understanding for a Jew in Israel).

He saw the window expire on May 14, 1998, four months ago, exactly 50 years from Israel's birth day, but it obviously didn't happen.However, at the time I wondered why he, an Orthodox Jew of all people, would base his conclusion on the Gentile Gregorian calendar instead of the Hebrew calendar.Also, there is reason to believe that technically Israel will still be "not more than 50" until the end, not beginning, of its 50th year.

If true, this means that, using the Jewish civil calendar, the rabbi's rapture window is still open until Rosh HaShannah of this year, September 20-21, 1998.I understand that Israel considers Rosh HaShannah this year to be the end of their Jubilee (50th) Year and not May 14, 1999.Of course, another possibility is that the Jewish sacred calendar is the appropriate one to use, which would keep the window open until March, 1999. On this calendar question I am unsure, although I suspect the civil calendar applies, and such a conclusion is compatible with many other indications.

Keep watching and looking up! Jim

My reply

Thanks for this information. When I read it, I began to rethink the Jubilee Year.

Moses was told at Sinai to make Nisan/Abib 1 the beginning of the year. He was also told about the Jubilee Year at Sinai. Therefore, I would assume that the Jubilee Year would be figured on the Sacred Calendar.

When they first came into the land from the wilderness, "the people came up out of Jordan on the tenth day of the first month" (Joshua 4:19). That is Nisan 10, in the first month of the Sacred Year.

Moses was told at Sinai, "When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD....in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest...And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years...forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month (i.e., of the Sacred Year), in the day of atonement...And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year (i.e., the 50th Sacred Year), and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family" (Lev. 25:1-10).

The modern branch of Israel came into the land and declared her Independence on Iyar 5, 5708 (May 14, 1948). Applying the Jubilee instructions seems to put the first Sacred Year from Nisan 1, 5708 to Nisan 1, 5709. Forty-nine years from 5708 would be 5757/1997. The Jubilee would be announced on the Day of Atonement (seventh month of the Sacred Year) and the 50th year would begin on Nisan 1, 5758 (Mar. 28, 1998. It would end as Nisan 1, 5759 (Mar. 18, 1999) begins.

If this is the right way to figure the Jubilee, and if the Rapture is to take place in this Jubilee Year, next Pentecost would be ruled out, giving an edge to the Eve of Trumpets, Elul 29, 5758, which is next Sunday, Sept. 20, 1998, when the new moon is in Virgo.

Why do I pick the Eve instead of the feast?
(1) Because Song of Solomon 2:10,11 says, "Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone." The Feast of Trumpets is Tishri 1, the beginning of the "former rain" in Israel.
(2) I think Eve was taken out of the body of Adam on the Eve of Trumpets and that this "kosmos," order of things, started to operate on Tishri 1, the day God rested. This begins time as we know it on a likely date, the New Year. Adam and Eve are good types of Christ and his Bride, who is to be taken out of his Body. Christ is called the second Adam.
(3) The four years indicated by the parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9 seem to be 5758, 5759, 5760 and 5761. If we go into Tishri 1, 5759, we have to eliminate 5758 from this count--unless we figure this by Sacred Years rather than Civil Years, or unless the fourth year is also the first of the Tribulation.

In my mind, another plus for the Rapture in 5758 is that I think it is the 6000th year since Adam was cast out of the Garden of Eden and man began to be tested as mortal and knowing both good and evil.

His reply

Thanks.Your insights are appreciated. Jim

My reply

I forgot to mention that 5758 means the season of Noah and that 58 spells Noah.

My grandson just called me and is getting married Saturday. What a neat time to hear that. If the Rapture should take place at midnight Sunday in Jerusalem, it would still be Saturday afternoon here in CA.

Incoming Email

Message from an angel? From: Jim Bramlett
Dear friends:
This morning I received this startling account from a friend, a businessman and devoted Christian, who has been strongly expecting the imminent rapture and final judgment to begin.I am not at liberty to reveal his mame, but for many years he has been very knowledgeable about biblical prophecy and the many speculations, but he says now is the first time that he really feels the Lord's return is actually about to happen.He has also been studying and praying for confirmations.

One night last month he was walking down the street in his Midwest city. Suddenly, a street cleaner, a black man, addressed him and spoke to him a brief, poignant message.

He had never seen this man before.It was extremely odd that such a stranger would speak to him in this way as he was just walking down the street in the night.

Here is the message the man gave him: "The time of Noah and the judgment of this country and the world is at hand.I told the leader of the city that the time of Noah is at hand and destruction is on its way.It is the time of Noah."

That's it.A short message from a total stranger just out of nowhere, and it confirmed the conclusion he had already made.

Was it an angel?Decide for yourself.I believe it was, and I am very moved by it. Jim

Incoming Email

Jane Bleth wrote:
Dear Sister Agee, I am forwarding the thread I started on Weekend News Discussion Group WEDG on the topic of multiple raptures.If you have time, a posting or two from you in person would be a blessing!I didn't read your book until after Pentecost this year, but I have to tell you, I really had been thinking Rapture could have come thentoo!I believe the Lord lead me to read your book in answer to prayer, wanting to know and understand the truth if I should be prepared to go thru tribulation or what was the truth regarding all the controversy on timeing.I believe you have wonderful insight and have learned a lot from you.
Your sister in Messiah's love, Jane Bleth
-----
http://upway.com/cgi-bin/forum02.cgi?fn=tp11332&topic=TWORAPTURES!?

My reply

I copied a statement from the first posting:

> I BELIEVE THERE ARE TWO RAPTURES! ONE PRE-TRIB & ONE PRE-WRATH...[A 3RD
> FOR THE 144,000 JEWISH WITNESSES & 4TH FOR TWO SPECIAL WITNESSES)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I'll tell why I think there are two Raptures. I think that there is a Pre-Trib Rapture, called our "blessed hope," and a Pre-Wrath Rapture just before the seven trumpet judgments are cast on Earth.

In the former, we are to be kept from the trial that will come upon all the world, the Tribulation (Rev. 3:10). It takes place in Rev. 4:1.

The latter is for the 144,000 Israelites plus a great multitude from all nations (Rev. 7). It takes place between the breaking of the sixth seal (Rev. 6:12) on the last day of this age (Rev. 6:17) and the breaking of the seventh seal (Rev. 8:1) on the Feast of Trumpets that is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord and the Day of God's Wrath (Joel 2:1-3).

Up to now, we have had two people translated without having to die, Enoch (Gentile) and Elijah (Israelite), as types of the two Raptures at the end of this age. The resurrection and ascension of the two witnesses in the middle of the Tribulation could also be called a Rapture since resurrection and ascension is part of the two main Raptures. However, I do not call it a Rapture since both of the main Raptures also involve living people that are caught up without having to die.

I think the first Rapture is of the wise Philadelphian-type virgins. They have no condemnation listed against them. They have enough oil of the Holy Spirit in their vessels and are characterized as exhibiting brotherly love, the meaning of Philadelphia. They have the open door set before them, and Jesus says they have "a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name" (Rev. 3:8).

Among those participating in the second Rapture are the foolish Laodicean-type virgins. They do not have enough oil of the Holy Spirit the first time, and are characterized as naked, lukewarm and not zealous (Rev. 3:16-19). They do get wise afterward and get their necessary oil. Rev. 7:14 puts it this way: they "have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

When we first believe, we are cleansed of all "old sins" (II Peter 1:9). At that point, we are as pure virgins filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit. But later, we sin. Our white robes are then "spotted by the flesh" (Jude 23), and we are quenching the Holy Spirit. To bring those sins under the blood of Christ, we must confess them to God. If we confess known sins, God is faithful and just to cleanse us of all unrighteousness (I John 1:9). Then we are filled with the Holy Spirit and ready for the Rapture. We may have very little time left, so we should be sure that we are ready.

Incoming Email

Re: Thank You! on 6-1-98
I am finally dropping you a note after reading your gifted website for the last 6 weeks. I am a 31 yr old happily single female and my Mom and I have devoured all of your books and every page on your website.  We were watching all weekend but I have mixed feelings--half of me is disappointed because I so want to be with the Lord and half of me is relieved that we have a little more time to reach friends and family. I printed nearly all of your website and made binders up for all my loved ones.  At first some were negative but they are coming around.  Praise God!  Have you noticed  that much of what you say is now coming out on some of the main Christian TV   programs?  We watch the news with a new sense of excitement and I just want you  to know that there are many grateful people out here for all of your dedication and   Christ-like attitude.  You are a wonderful role model and we love you. Pray up, Pack up, Look up!

My reply

Thanks for sharing this with me. Wish I could have answered sooner, but the backlog is daunting. I do the best I can.

I have been too busy answering email and taking care of my husband to even listen to much TV. Ed has it on, so in running back and forth I hear brief snatches, that's all. I try to hear the news once a day, though. Sorry to say, it is clogged with stuff about Clinton right now....I am more interested in McGwire and Sosa breaking home-run records.

Every day brings us one day closer to the Rapture. I am ready any time now. Hope it will be this week end.

Incoming Email

We are watching and waiting faithfully with you our dear sister in Christ. Your teaching inspired my 15 year old son to write his freshman research paper on The Rapture. We have learned so much,the main concept being that in Leviticus Chapter 23: God appointed 7 Special Days for Man to meet with God, and major events happen on those days....My Graduating senior had 153 in his 1998 Class. Looking forward to that Great Graduation. Shalom

My reply

...That 153 is a great number. I'm one fish that wants to get caught up in that net.

I hope the Rapture is this weekend. If not, it seems that we would have to wait for next Pentecost because of the rainy season in Israel. The "former rain" starts Tishri 1. The "latter rain" starts Nisan 1. Song of Solomon 2:11 says, "the rain is over and gone."

Waiting and watching

Added 9-17-98:

Incoming Email

...Thank you so much for helping us to gain much needed insight into this important topic. Rosh Hashanah is only 3 days away! Do you think it's possible it could also happen the third day of the Feast of Tabernacles? I'll be watching with you! Shalom

My reply

What makes it hard for me to think that the Rapture could happen on any day of the Feast of Tabernacles, which starts on Tishri 15, is Song of Solomon 2:10,11. It says, "My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. For, lo, the winter is past, THE RAIN IS OVER AND GONE."

The former rain starts Tishri 1, the first day of the Jewish Civil Year (near the beginning of autumn). The latter rain starts Nisan 1, the first day of the Regnal and Sacred Year (in the spring). In between is Israel's rainy season, including the winter. If this scripture applies to the Rapture, the time slot for the catching up of the Bride of Christ seems to be from Iyar 1 to Elul 29, this year from our April 27 through Sept. 20, 1998. Tabernacles does not start until Oct. 5.

A study of the verses that mention the former and latter rains is revealing. I think Christ's two advents are Tishri 1 (First Advent, BC 5) and Nisan 1 (Second Advent, 2008 AD), but I haven't seen the Rapture there.

Let's look at some of the verses and see if it is there. First, the Lord promised Israel, "I will give you the rain of your land in HIS DUE SEASON (eth, time), the first (former) rain and the latter rain" (De. 11:14).

Hos. 5:15; 6-1-3 says, "I (Christ, the YHVH of hosts, Isa. 44:6) will go and return to my place (Heaven), till they (Israel) acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction (the day of Jacob's trouble) they will seek me early. COME, and let us (Israel is now talking) return unto the LORD (YHVH): for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days (1000-year days) will he revive us (fulfilled in 1948): in the third day (after the 3rd millennium began) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. Then (after 1948) shall we know, if we follow on (after 1967's Sign of the End of the Age) to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (YHVH of hosts, Christ) shall come unto us as the rain, as the LATTER AND FORMER RAIN unto the earth."

These rains come on the first day of the first month, the former on Tishri 1 and the latter on Nisan 1. They are such definite times in Israel that they are listed on their calendars that list feasts and harvest times (as in Unger's Bible Dictionary).

You can see this in Joel 2:23: "he hath given you the former rain (the First Advent) moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month." In the Bible, when the month is listed without the number of the day, the first day of the month is understood, because the word for month is the same as the new moon, which is the first of the month.

We can also see that it is the first day of the month in Ezek. 29:17,21: "in the first month, in the first day of the month...In that day (Nisan 1, Ezek. 45:18,21) will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (the Logos, the Word) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD (YHVH)."

This is the Second Advent. None of the princes of this world knew that he was YHVH in a human body at the First Advent, "for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory" (I Cor. 2:8). Later, Paul put it clearly, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (II Cor. 5:19). Jesus had said "I and my Father are one...the Father is in me, and I in him" (John 10:30,38), but they did not understand. Jesus told it plainly in the last book of the Bible. In Rev. 1:8, he said, "I am Alpha (the first) and Omega (the last), the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY." In Isa. 9:6, he is "The mighty God, The everlasting Father."

I see the two Advents in the verses about the former and latter rain, but not the Rapture. How about you?

I'm hoping for the Rapture on the Eve of the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 20, 1998, Jerusalem time....

Incoming Email, plus my reply

***From Marilyn: Thanks for all your information on the feasts. It is too long to post it all. I had to take the first Pro and Con off last night to be able to post 178. Pro and Con 2 will have to be deleted soon.

> ..."What, could you not watch with me one hour?"(Matt. 26:40)

***Just had a thought. Hour here is "hora." It can mean time, day, hour, instant, season. Are we having to watch one season? summer?

> ...Trumpets is also called the Day of Judgment when God sits on His throne
> and determines the destiny of each individual in the year ahead. The
> shofar(trumpet) is blown 100 times. Moses Marmonides, a Jewish scholar
> explains; "Although the sounding of the shofar on Rosh Hashanah is a decree
> to the Torah, still it has a deep meaning as if saying: 'Wake up from your
> deep sleep, you who are fast asleep...search your deeds and repent;
> remember your Creator.'

***If the Rapture happens on Erev Rosh HaShanah, this could be a call the the Jews to wake up--and the foolish virgins too.

> ...For Christians it will be the end of a long journey through the wilderness.
> From Passover = Salvation; Red Sea = Baptism; wandering in the desert = life
> here on earth; Jericho = Heaven.

> ...ATONEMENT
> "Also on the 10th day of this month(tis're) there shall be a day of atonement; it
> shall be a holy convocation unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer
> an offering made by fire unto the Lord(Lev.23:27)
> This is the most sacred of all Jewish days. In ancient times it was the only
> occasion when the high priest entered the Holy of Holies in the temple, and
> a scapegoat bearing the sins of Israel was sent off in the wilderness. It was
> and still is a day of confession and repentance. This is one feast that will be
> fulfilled by Israel alone, not the Church. The Church owes no atonement,
> not because we are innocent, but because we are already exonerated. Jesus has
> paid for our sins and we have accepted His sacrifice.
> The day of atonement will be fulfilled at Jesus' Second Coming. Daniel 9:24
> recorded God's future plan for this feast:"Seventy weeks are determined for
> you people and for you holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression,
> (worshipping other gods, ignoring the Sabbath, and others) to make an end of
> sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity (Yom Kippur), to bring in everlasting
> righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy
> (Jesus Christ.)

> ...Jesus' Second Coming (not the Rapture) should be seven years or 2,520 days
> after Israel affirms the peace accord with the Antichrist....After seven years his
> evil influence will end when Jesus Christ, Messiah comes to destroy him.
> Yom Kippur, the day of reconciliation will be fulfilled.

***I think the Second Advent will be on Nisan 1. He will return as the latter rain (Ezek. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:1-3), not Yom Kippur. Nisan 1 is a bit before the 2520 days is up. The 2520 days probably mark the Judgment of the Nations. At that time, I think dominion will be taken from Satan and he will begin the battle of Armageddon, his last ditch stand.

> We, the Church should be preaching repentance before the Rapture. Five out
> of seven churches in Revelation was told to repent. Does that mean that
> five out of seven Christian need to repent? Repentance is the key to revival.
> Unless we are humble and contrite, how can God use us to draw others to
> Him? We are saved but not perfect. We must not sleep but always be on our
> guard, looking to the perfection of our faith.
> FEAST OF TABERNACLES (Sukkot)
> Held by divine decree on the 15th - 21st day of Tis'ri (Sept or Oct). God
> wanted to celebrate the fact that He provided shelter for the Israelites in the
> wilderness: "Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born
> shall dwell in booths: That your generations may know that I made the
> children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of
> Egypt: I am the Lord your God (Lev. 23:-43)
> I begins after the in gathering of the harvest. According to Jewish tradition, it
> is also a festival involving Gentiles and 70 bullocks were offered up in the
> temple for the 70 known nations of the world. In the Messianic age, the
> Jews believe ALL nations will come up to Jerusalem to celebrate Sukkot. As
> an affirmation of God's guidance of the world.
> A seven is the number of fulfillment and completion, ;this festival ushers in
> God's rest and points to the 1,000 year reign of Christ, the Millennium.

> ...I think Jesus was born at this time, also. It makes sense that His first and last
> appearance on earth would be this festival also known as 'the season of our joy.'...

***I think Jesus was born on Tishri 1 as the former rain (Hos. 6:1-3).

> soon, very soon, perhaps this Rosh Hoshana September 20th, Jesus is
> coming for His Church. Are you ready? or do you sleep? My prayer for all is
> that Jesus is your personal Friend and Savior, that you know with out a doubt
> that you are His and He is yours, and that without a doubt you are a part of
> His body, the Church. The tribulation (God's wrath toward unbelievers) is
> going to be terrible....Now is the time to come to the Lord. Now is the time of
> salvation.... God is an awesome God
> Also - perhaps you can help me by shedding some light on the 4 living
> creatures in Revelation and the flags in the Israelite camp on the North,
> South, East and West. Any connection? Perhaps Old Testament Bridehood
> Saints, Jesus' firstfruits when He was resurrected that Sunday? Any
> thoughts? I figure we'll know all the answers pretty soon anyway when we
> arrive in Heaven. I'm excited and looking forward to meeting my Lord face
> to face. PRAISE GOD!

***The four lively things may represent planets appearing in the sky as if on the north, south, east and west of Heaven. The "first beast was LIKE a lion" (Rev. 4:7). "Like" (or "as") is symbolic language. It shows us that this is symbolic rather than literal. We have to figure out what the symbols represent. This ties in with Ezekiel's visions. The four planets Ezekiel saw are Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars. These may be Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. They surround the throne, which I think is on Saturn. There "was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald" (Rev. 4:3). I have a photo of Saturn taken from Earth that does show green on the outer edges of the rings. However, the emerald was Judah's stone, showing that this is Christ's stone (planet), because he is of the tribe of Judah.

When reading Rev. 4, we have to remember that Jesus Christ is both Yahweh (the Father) and the Lamb (Jesus). Verse 3 also says, "And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone." We can easily unravel that symbolism. The jasper and sardius/sardine were the first and last stones in the breastplate of the high priest. This indicates that the one sitting on the throne actually is the Almighty, who is both the first (YHVH) and the last (Jesus Christ). Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last" (Rev. 1:17; 22:13). This is why the Lamb "as it had been slain" is used in Rev. 5:6. Christ is on the throne, and he is also the Lamb. He is actually omnipresent, so this picture is not too hard to imagine. But, only of the Lamb of God can it be said, "thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (over) the earth" (Rev. 5:9,10).

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 9-17-98