Pro and Con 1815

Posted 8-9-14

When I saw this chart, I thought to myself, "What if these two wedding-ring eclipses mark the two Raptures?" Both are New Years, the first the New Year of the Sacred Calendar, the last the New Year of the Civil Calendar.

I have to wait and see if the First-Trump Rapture will be on Thu. Sept. 25, 2014, the Feast of Trumpets. I already think the Last-Trump Rapture will be on Sept. 13, 2015. Watch and wait are the story of my life.


Satan has been busy. Israel has found 31 tunnels dug by Hamas, and has destroyed only 15. The first tunnel was discovered at Ein Hashlosha.

What surprised me the most was that Israel already knew there were some tunnels; and they may not have found them all yet. Last Monday, Hamas soldiers emerged from one of the tunnels and killed several Israeli soldiers.

"The military has known about the tunnels since at least 2003 and had a task force studying them for a year, but was nonetheless stunned at the sophisticated network they found."

I'm glad Netanyahu said, "We will not complete the operation without neutralizing the tunnels, the sole purpose of which is the destruction of our civilians and the killing of our children".

Tunnels have lurked in their minds since 2006, when Hamas used one to capture Gilad Shalit. In the current conflict, there have been at least six tunnel attacks.

"An Israeli military spokesman said that in the tunnels uncovered so far, soldiers have found more than 70 side shafts."

"Far more than the rocket barrages that have sent Israelis scrambling for shelter throughout the bloody 21-day battle, the tunnel attacks - Monday's was the sixth of the current conflict - have shaken the collective psyche and stiffened resolve to continue or even expand the fight."


I just read "Is the Mid-Tribulation or Pre-Wrath Rapture the Biblical View?",

By Cooper Abrams.

He said, "This view (i.e., the MID_TRIB RAPTURE) is unbiblical and has many problems." He thinks that the one Rapture will happen Pre-Trib.

He said, "In determining the validity of the Mid-Tribulational Rapture or Pre-Wrath Rapture view five of the most important questions must be answered:

My remarks will be interspersed in his questions.

"(1) Does the seventh trumpet of Revelation mark the beginning of the Great Tribulation?"

No. It marks the beginning of Christ's millennial rule, which is the Day of God's Wrath, the end of the Tribulation. There is a second Rapture on that day, the Last-Trump Rapture of I Cor. 15:51-54.

Rev 6:12-17 says, "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 7:9-15 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God".

Rev 11:12-15 says, "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. AND THEY ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN IN A CLOUD; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, AND OF HIS CHRIST; AND HE SHALL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER."

"(2) Is the seventh trumpet the last trumpet of Revelation 11?


Rev 11:15-19 says, "And THE SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come (i.e., the Second Advent is still future); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged (i.e., at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

"(3) Is the rapture of the Body of Christ in Revelations?

Yes. The First-Trump Rapture is the "COME UP HITHER" of Rev. 4:1, and in the "RISE" of Rev 11:1.

The Last Trump Rapture is in Rev. 11:12. It says, "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

"(4) Do the programs for Israel and the churches overlap?

Yes, all through the seven-year Tribulation. Not all believers will be caught up in the First-Trump Rapture of I Thess. 4:13-18. Those left behind will be caught up in the Last-Trump Rapture of I Cor. 15:51-54.

"(5) Is the hope of the imminent return of Christ unscriptural?"

No. In Mt 24:36 Jesus said, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

In Mat_24:42, Jesus said, "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."

In Mat_25:13, Jesus said, "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."

That may indicate that the First-Trump Rapture will be on the Feast of Trumpets. Israel had to sight the new crescent Moon to know when Tishri 1 would start.

In Mat_26:41, Jesus said, "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."

In Mar_13:33-35, Jesus said, "Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. 34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35, Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning".

In Mar_13:37, Jesus said, "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch."

In Mar_14:38, Jesus said, "Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak."

In Luk_21:36, Jesus said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

In Rev_3:3, Jesus said, "Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."


"Organization launches campaign to raise funds for draft plans of site, which, if built, it says, would 'usher in universal harmony'"

By Ben Sales 7-29-14, The Times of Israel

My comment: I just hope they plan to build it between the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aska Mosque, not where the Dome of the Rock is. That rock used to be inside the Fort Antonia southern wall. It was not even in the Temple Court.

Josephus said, "Now, as to the tower of Antonia, it was situated at the corner of two cloisters of the court of the temple; of that on the west and that on the north; it was erected upon a rock, of fifty cubits in height, and was on a great precipice; it was the work of king Herod, wherein he demonstrated his natural magnanimity. In the first place, the rock itself was covered over with smooth pieces of stone, from its foundation, both for ornament, and that anyone who would either try to get up or to go down it, might not be able to hold his feet upon it." (Wars. V.V.5)


"The IDF's discovery of Hamas's Rosh Hashana plot was the last straw for any Israeli leftists still harboring fantasies about picking up our marbles and going home. Hamas's plan to use its tunnels to send hundreds of terrorists into multiple Israeli border communities simultaneously and carry out a massacre of unprecedented scope, replete with the abduction of hostages to Gaza, was the rude awakening the Left had avoided since it pushed for Israel's 2005 withdrawal from Gaza."


Pastor Bob (27 July 2014)
""Absence of Proof is Not Proof of Absence -6""

"It Is Written!"

This is my focus in this post series about the fact that "Absence of Proof is Not Proof of Absence". If you have not caught on to this theme, it is for the purpose of encouragement to the believers in Christ Jesus as our personal savior. For me personally, "The Theme of the Bride" is, by far, the greatest study for our faith and confidence in the belief that Christ Jesus will come for the faithful just prior to or at the beginning of the "Seven" year Tribulation. I can also state unequivocally, that it is not the only "Theme" that gives us the great hope we can have in a "Pre-Tribulation Rapture"

The definitive response given by Jesus Christ, to Satan, was "It Is Written,......" And then He would go on to rebut the devil with "pure words of truth". We know that Jesus Christ identified the tactics of Satan in the temptation of man: 1. The lust of the eyes, 2. The lust of the flesh, 3. The pride of life. It is important that we keep that thought in the back of our minds at all times or on our radar screen. Spiritual warfare, an issue we all have to deal with, at one time or another, inhibits our ability to be as effective as we ought to be. I have noted that I have done several "thematic" studies of the Bible in my down time over the past thirty years.

I'm not going to spend a lot of time addressing the theme "It Is Written" other than to point out where this fits into the larger scope of understanding the teaching of the "Pre-Tribulation Rapture". Do you know the expression "It Is Written" is found 93 times in the Bible, 26 just in the New Testament? In this segment of "Absence of Proof is Not Proof of Absence" we take a look at how the Bible offers us many sound reasons showing why the Rapture is prior to the Tribulation.

I hope that I have been able to offer you substantive evidence for a verdict and that you will not be deceived by the "Pre-Wrath Rapture Delusion" crowd of fools and wags. They argue that there isn't a single verse in the Bible that specifically teaches the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. However, there is virtually no sound Biblical reasons to prove the Rapture will occur in the middle or after the Tribulation, either. Either position must have evidence, substantive proof, that supports, or infers, or corroborates the position being presented. It is at this point today, I would like to offer you a few things to think about. Consider the following points of evidence to the contrary.

1. The saints are commanded to watch. They are not commanded to watch for the Tribulation, but for the "Blessed Hope", which is the "Harpazao" or the Rapture, the "catching away". Scriptures proving this point are abundant, as I have shown, and will continue to present as evidence that demands a verdict for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. If the believers were to go through the Tribulation, any portion of it, it would contradict and nullify God's Word.

2. Of the believers that get saved during the Tribulation, most will be persecuted and likely killed. The few that survive will go into the Millennium to repopulate the Earth. If the Rapture came after the Tribulation, there would be very few believers to go into the Millennium. This would make the fulfillment of God's Word on this subject, impossible.

3. The judgment of the nations, mentioned in Matthew 25, is held immediately after the Tribulation and Armageddon. If the Rapture had just happened, there would be no "sheep" at the judgment. As it is written, "And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left" -(Matthew 25:33). The "sheep" are those that are saved. The "goats" are the unsaved. Again, God's Word could not be fulfilled, if the Rapture came after the Tribulation.

4. If the Church were to go through the Tribulation, it would contradict many verses in the Bible. Most of the believers will be beheaded. The Bible clearly shows that Antichrist will prevail against the saints. Anyone who claims the Church will go through the Tribulation does not appear to understand what the Tribulation will really be like. Think about the Christians being driven from northern Iraq today as the radical "ISIS" threatens to behead them all, if they [the Christians] do not convert, or flee Iraq. Very few people will be left alive afterward. If Jesus did not come back exactly when He does, there should no flesh be left alive.

5. It is written, "Wherefore comfort one another with these words" -(1 Thessalonians 4:18). If we were watching for the horrible Tribulation period, we would not be comforted, rather, we would be terrified. This Scripture could not be fulfilled, if the believers/saints were to go into the Tribulation period.

6. It is written, "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draweth nigh." -(Luke 21:28). In Luke 21, events of the Tribulation are described. Verse 28 shows that when these things begin to happen, after Israel's rebirth, then we are to know that the Rapture is about to take place. Note, it did not say, when they "have" happened, but when they "begin" to happen. They begin to happen as birth pangs of a woman about to give birth to a baby. Again, if a person was going to go through the Tribulation, the wording of this verse would be inaccurate.

7. It is written, "Blessed is that servant, whom His Lord when He cometh shall find so doing...." -(Luke 12:43). This passage denotes working for, or serving God. The Scriptures clearly shows that during the Tribulation, a time will come when the saints will not be able to work. As it is written, "I must work the works of Him that sent Me, while it is day: the night cometh (which represents the Tribulation), when no man can work." -(John 9:4). This Scripture passage of the Lord appearing at the Rapture very clearly shows that it happens before the Tribulation. During the Tribulation, especially the second part, it will be nearly impossible to work; before the Rapture comes, the saints can be working. Verse 45 confirms it is the period prior to the Rapture when people are saying, "My Lord delayeth His coming." This same message is confirmed in Matthew 24:45-48. A further thought here is appropriate when addressing what happens when "fear" begins to dominates the landscape. Psychologically, when people are overtaken by the sense of "fear" the human mind shuts down in rational thinking. Panic sets in and all ability to function normally goes into a "shut down" mode. If you doubt that, just ask anyone that has served in combat in a theater of war. The US military trains the troops to deal with and deter the power of fear, to heighten their ability to function in situations where fear can render a person helpless. The level of their training increases in the special forces category such as Rangers, SEAL teams, Delta Force, etc., because of the nature of special operations. Likewise, the stock market is manipulated through two forces - greed and fear!

8. The "Seven" Feasts of God, given to Israel in Leviticus 23 gives us God's Timetable.

Why then does there seem to be so much confusion among some people on this subject? The answer is clear as day. "God is not the author of confusion" -(1st Corinthians 14:33). Satan is the author of confusion. Some people hold the incorrect position that the Rapture will take place in the midst of the Tribulation. Some hold the misguided position that the Rapture will come at the end of the Tribulation. There are some misguided people who do not believe there will be a Rapture. They do not believe that Jesus will actually return as King of kings, and Lord of lords, as the Scriptures clearly point out. They do not believe there will be a Tribulation. Others believe that the Lord returned 1,800 years ago, and still others believe that He returned 110 years ago.

A person that believes that the Rapture will come during or after the Tribulation, also may not even begin to fully understand what the Tribulation will really be like at all. There has never been in the history of the Earth a time, either before the flood or after the flood, that will be as bad as what is soon to come. Matthew 24:21,22 makes this crystal clear.

We are not to be looking for the Tribulation, but for the 'Blessed Hope' and the Glorious Appearing of the Great God and our Savior Jesus Christ. -(Titus 2:13). Regarding the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, it is written, "Wherefore comfort one another with these words" -(1 Thessalonians 4:18). There is no comfort in watching for the Tribulation.

By watching for the Tribulation, instead of the 'Blessed Hope', we nullify the Word of God. To watch for the Tribulation, is to watch for the most horrible time in the history of the world. To think that one would enter this utterly terrifying time would mean that a Christian would live a life of fear. During the Tribulation, those that turn to God would still not be comforted, if they have to go through the Tribulation. World events tell us that Tribulation is coming, so we need not be watching for the Tribulation.

Those that teach the Rapture will not come prior to the Tribulation are making God's Word of no effect (null and void). This is exactly what Satan wants us to do. That is what other sites are doing on behalf of the man of sin! They are instilling "fear" in the minds of their readers. You can clearly see this in the headlines of their daily posts. The sensationalism in their headline posts psychologically are directed to instill fear. If that wasn't enough, then on top of that, one site posts heresy teachings that head their site, every day, are from the "Pre-Wrath-Rapture-Delusion" of SDA Steven "Mark" Wolhberg. What did the Apostle Paul say in Ephesians 5:11? "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." I have pointed out before the meaning of "reprove" is to expose their unfruitful works for darkness. I think of the so-called prophecy sites that nullify their message by offering and selling to their readers, survival foods, or gold and silver, you know, the real currencies.

Folks, those people are in it for the money and they are playing upon people's fear. My point is that they are not exalting their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ to deliver them from the wrath to come, by selling survival food buckets and survival gear, not if they believe Jesus Words as Truth. They use the Word of God for personal gain, to exploit the lambs and fleece them of their hard-earned incomes.

I used to watch Jim Bakker on television from his compound down in the Ozarks, huckstering his survival food buckets. While getting some morning laughs over his wacko teachings, I could not dismiss the thought of the hypocrisy and foolishness of this charlatan. Jim Bakker does not believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, he has said as much. In the meantime, he profits on people's "fear".

As I will continue in this series, "Absence of Proof is Not Proof of Absence", there is so much the believer fails to consider when it comes to our Faith.

God Bless, Pastor Bob

   PC INDEX   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at:

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508

© 1996-2013, Marilyn J. Agee