Pro and Con 1817

Posted 8-29-14



I had fun searching my genealogy records. I found pictures of grandparents, great grandparents, their children and spouses I had never seen before. I found out that Dad's birthday was Sept. 11. Before that, I wasn't sure if it was the 10th or 11th. Ed's stepfather's was the next day.

That 9-11 tied in with the destruction of the World Trade Center towers on 9-11-11. The Pentagon was also struck. As a reminder of the date, the Pentagon was rededicated on 9-11-2002. It's groundbreaking ceremony was 9-11-41.

All that made me wonder if another harbinger will happen on Sept. 11, this year.

Then I got an email and found out that Solomon's Temple was destroyed on the 9th of Av, the 11th Hebrew month, 9-11 in our 587 BC, Herod's Temple was destroyed on the 9th of Av, the 11th Hebrew month, 9-11 (in our 70 AD). That is amazing.

Then the US consulate in Benghazi was burned on 9-11-12.

Jesus was born on Tishri 1 (1-1). We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. What will 9-11 mean to us? Will our birth into a new world be on 9-11?

Or, could it be a reminder that the First-Trump Rapture is coming on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1 (1-1), our Sept. 25, 14. The trumpets of Elul have already started to sound. There will be none on the Eve of Trumpets, then 100 on the Feast of Trumpets. Maybe we will go up at the first trumpet that day.

Num 10:1-4 says, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver (i.e., there are two Raptures, a first trump and a last trump); of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation (i.e., Last-Trump Rapture). 4 And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes (i.e., the 24 elders), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

The elders are seen in Heaven after the first Rapture (Rev. 4:1-4).

One more thing, on 9-11, there are 111 days remaining in the year.


The final straw that left me expecting a Mid-Trib Rapture was a lightning-quick understanding of what Rev. 10 is telling us. God had to have done that. I have read that chapter before without understanding why it is there. For sure, I read it 17 times when I read 17 versions of the Bible all the way through except some of the begats without understanding what Rev. 10 was actually telling us.


In Rev. 10:1-11, John wrote, "And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: 2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, 3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. 4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. 5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time (chronos, space of time, delay) no longer:

7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. 8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me (i.e., John) again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. 9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

When I got to "again," I got the flash. Suddenly I understood. John was going to go back to Rev. 4:1 and prophesy about the "COME UP HITHER" again. Therefore, the "RISE" in Rev. 11:1 is the same as the "COME UP HITHER" in Rev. 4:1. It is the First-Trump Rapture.

Both Raptures are in Rev. 11. The first is "RISE", and the last is "COME UP HITHER."

Rev. 11:1-19 says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, RISE (egeiro, rouse from death, lift up, take up), and measure the temple of God (i.e., we are the temple of the Holy Spirit), and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months (i.e., the last half of the Tribulation). 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses (Moses and Elijah, who stood by the Lord at his transfiguration, see Zech 4:11-14 and Mt. 17:3), and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days (i.e., the last half of the Tribulation), clothed in sackcloth. (They come with Christ at the time of the first Rapture, MID-TRIB, and go back to Heaven at the last "COME UP HITHER".)

4 "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. (Zech. 4:11-14)5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit (i.e., Satan) shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city (Jerusalem), which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER (i.e., this is the second Rapture). And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them (i.e.,the astonished people left behind will see the Raptures take place). 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake (i.e., the mountain and asteroid Wormwood impact Earth, Rev. 8:8-11), and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever (i.e., this is the great and terrible Day of the Lord, when Jesus receives his millennial kingdom).16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats (i.e., thrones), fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come (i.e., the Second Advent is still future); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged (i.e., at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament (i.e., in it were two stones with the 10 commandments on them): and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail" (i.e., as if the two stones with the 10 Commandments on them represented the two asteroids that impact Earth on the Day of God's Wrath).

I am now convinced that the First-Trump Rapture of I Thess. 4:13-18 is Mid-Trib.

Rev 2:18-25 says, "And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira (a place in Asia Minor) write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel (meaning unmarried), which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space (i.e., the first half of the Tribulation) to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will (i.e., at Mid-Trib) cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery (i.e., join) with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come."

Rev 12:1-12 says, "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman (Virgo) clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet (i.e., on the true Tishri 1, which is Sept. 27 this year), and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up (harpazo, taken up by force, i.e., raptured) unto God, and to his throne.

6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Rev 17:12-14 shows that the 10 kings have not received their kingdom yet, but the First-Trump Rapture has taken place. It says, "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful".

The Last-Trump Rapture is on the great and terrible Day of the Lord at the end of the Tribulation (Rev. 6:17; 7:9-14). That day is also the Day of Jacob's Trouble.

Jer_30:7 says, "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it."

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Pastor Bob (17 Aug 2014)"Compare and Contrast The Rapture and The Second Coming":


Thanks for your interesting posts. When studying Bible Chronology, I went along with Anstey, but knew about some of Panin's work on that. However, I had no idea that he was the one that uncovered so much of the miraculous sevening of Scripture. I am so glad you covered that so well. I want to keep copies of those posts.

> > Most assuredly, the comparison and contrast between the Rapture and the Second Coming, can only be interpreted to support only a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

However, most of those differences could support a Mid-Trib Rapture. Here is some food for thought, and I understand that you are too busy to answer. Keep doing what you are doing. I look eagerly for your posts.

It now seems to me that the First Rapture (I Thess. 4:13-18) can only happen at the first "trump of God", Mid-Trib, and the Last Rapture (I Cor. 15:51-54) can only happen "at the last trump", on the great and terrible Day of the Lord.


1Th 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (phthano, precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."


1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

Isa_13:6 says, "Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty."

Isa_13:9 says, "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."

Isa_34:8 says, "For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion."

Jer_46:10 says, "For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries".

Lam_2:22 says, "Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the LORD'S anger none escaped nor remained".

Eze_13:5 says, "Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD."

Eze_30:3 says, "For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen."

Joe_1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come."

Joe_2:1 says, "Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh"

Joe_2:11 says, "And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?"

Joe_2:31 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come."

Joe_3:14 says, "Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision."

Amo_5:18 says, "Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light."

Amo_5:20 says, "Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?"

Oba_1:15 says, "For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head."

Zep_1:7 says, "Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice".

Zep_1:8 says, "And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD'S sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel."

Zep_1:14 says, "The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly."

Zep_2:3 says, "Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid (i.e., Raptured) in the day of the LORD'S anger."

Zec_14:1 says, "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee."

Mal_4:5 says, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD".

Act_2:20 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come"

1Th_5:2 says, "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

2Pe_3:10 says, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

Joel 2:11 says, "And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?"

Joel 2:31 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come."

Rev 6:16, 17 says, "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

May the Lord bless you abundantly. Keep up the good work. Agape

ANOTHER REPLY TO A PREVIOUS EMAIL, Re: Rahab's tie in with Egypt

I am in the middle of my research to try to pin down the date of the arrival of the angels from Rahab, and the date of the catastrophe that caused them to abandon their settlements. Pardon me if I have already told you this. It is on my mind today. Here are some of my findings, in no particular order. I just want to get this information to you.


Some dates are hard to pin down. Every time I hear Michael Tellinger talk about Adam's Calendar in S. Africa, his dates seem older than the last time I heard him. It sounds like wishful thinking to me.

It is interesting that Adam's Calendar is positioned along the 31st degree longitude like the Sphinx/Pyramid complex in Egypt. I don't think that was an accident.


We can trust the astronomers and their computer programs. They say the AGE OF LEO was 10,970 to 8,810 BC, and the Sphinx faces due east, forever watching the Sunrise.

When the angels carved the Sphinx, It looks like they were telling us that they got here at the DAWN of the Age of Leo, 10,970 BC, and that date makes sense.

The oldest radiocarbon date for Gobekli Tepe is 9990 for charcoal deep in enclosure D. Finding something that could be radiocarbon dated was hard, but what they got fits within the Age of Leo.

The angels were pretty good astronomers. Gobekli Tepe is proof of that too. The final assessment has not come in, because there is much more to excavate, but it seems obvious that the angels were keeping track of the rising of certain stars. For instance, in Enclosure B, it looks like Alnitak was rising in 8630 BC, Alnilam was rising in 8800 BC, and Mintaka was rising in 9100 BC. These are the belt stars in Orion. The pyramids of Giza align with them.

In enclosure D, they were sighting on Deneb, in Cygnus.

On one of the big pillars, Cygnus is depicted. I don't know which enclosure it is in, but there also is a scorpion on it. That stands for Scorpio. There is a lion on a pillar. That stands for Leo.


"The Clovis culture appears around 11,500-11,000 uncal RCYBP[1] (uncalibrated radiocarbon years before present), at the end of the last glacial period...equal to roughly 13,200 to 12,900 calendar years ago." Therefore, the Clovis were angels.

After the large animals were wiped out, Clovis people depended mostly on foraging for plants, hunting small mammals and, probably, fishing. "Radiocarbon dating of the Monte Verde site in Chile place Clovis-like culture there as early as 13,500 years ago and remains found at the Channel Islands of California place coastal Paleoindians there 12,500 years ago."


Emma Woollacott, 9-19-12, said that was "about 13,000 years ago"

In 2007, Lawrence Berkeley National Lab found concentrations of metal spherules - microsized balls - and nano-sized diamonds in a sediment layer dated to 12,900 years ago at 10 of 12 archaeological sites that they examined.

"One of these was the Topper archaeological site, inhabited by the Clovis people.

"This date corresponds with what's known as the Younger-Dryas, a period of extreme cooling that began around 12,900 years ago and lasted 1300 years. The Clovis people disappeared, along with thirty-six species, including the mastodon, mammoth and saber-toothed tiger....

"At all three sites he surveyed, LeCompte found the same microscopic spherules - with the Topper site the most exciting.

"What we had at Topper and nowhere else were pieces of manufacturing debris from stone tool making by the Clovis people. Topper was an active and ancient quarry at the time," he says.

"And, the team found, there were up to 30 times more spherules at and just above the Clovis surface than beneath the artifacts at the site.

"The so-called extra-terrestrial impact hypothesis adds to the mystery of what happened at the YDB with its sudden and unexplained reversion to an ice age climate, the rapid and seemingly simultaneous loss of many Pleistocene animals, such as mammoths and mastodons, as well as the demise of what archaeologists call the Clovis culture...

"Earlier this year, a team found melt-glass material of a similar date at sites around the world, supporting the impact hypothesis."

Ice core data suggests a cosmic impact killed off Clovis people 12,900 years ago"

"A layer of platinum (i.e., "a 100-fold increase in platinum concentration is ice that is around 12,890 years old) from an ice core taken in greenland has been dated back to the time of a known abrupt climate transition, known as the 'Big Freeze'....

"According to researchers at Harvard University, this provides evidence that a comet tipped the world into its colder phase, making dozens of species extinct." The Younger Dryas saw rapid return to glacial conditions in the higher latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere 12,900 yrs ago. It would have set fires. Carbon rich soil has been found.

Wooly mammoths, giant beaver, musk ox, mastodons, ground sloths, camels, saber-tooth tigers, rhinoceros, camels, short-face bear, sloths, died out completely. Bones have been found in LA and Chicago, and land was pushed up out of the Pacific Ocean. There are spherules from 18 sites.

Greenland ice cores show 100 fold spike in the concentration of platinum.

"Researcher Michail Petaev and Harvard colleagues, writing in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found a 100-fold increase in platinum concentration in ice that is around 12,890 years old."

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