Pro and Con 1822

Posted 10-11-14



I have e-mailed you in the past, but it's been awhile. I wanted to ask you something. The Lord continues to impress upon me the idea: "behold the pattern". In gathering the harvest in Israel, there were different parts: the firstfruits (which I believe to be the bride), then the main harvest (the multitudes), and then the gleanings after the harvest.

From what I understand from scripture, the barley (overcomers, bride) is harvested, gathered before the wheat harvest, and it's method of harvesting is different than the wheat crop. The barley is simply "tossed into the air" (rapture), but harvesting the wheat is harsher: (a tribulum board is used), it is trodden down, harvested on the threshing floor in the tribulation.

It seems that there may be 2 separate "gatherings" or 2 stages of the "translation" (a 2-fold harvest) of the saints; Rev. 14:1-5 and Rev. 14:14-16. Some are ready now and some will be ready later as illustrated in:
1. wise and foolish virgins; Matt. 25:1-13
2. 2 trumpet calls; Numb. 10:2-8
3. children and friend; Luke 11:5-8
4. feeding of 5,000 and 4,000; Matt. 14:15-21; 15:29-39
5. firstfruits and harvest; Rev. 14:1-5, 14-16
6. woman and manchild; Rev. 12:1-17
7. Martha and Mary; John 11:1-32
8. Enoch and Elijah; Gen. 5:22-24; 2 Kings 2:11-12
9. Noah and Lot; Luke 17:26-37
10. Daniel and 3 companions; Dan. 2:48-49, 3:10-27
11. Queen and virgins; Ps. 45:9-16
12. Bride (chosen) and those called; Rev. 19:7-9
13. "you" and "they", Luke 12:35-36
14. second and third watches; Luke 12:37-40
15. Jesus first and second ascensions; John 20:17; Acts 1:9
16. faithful and unfaithful servants; Luke 12:41-48
17. Peter, James, John and rest of disciples; Matt. 17:1-18
18. Overcomers and churches; Revelation, chapters 2 and 3
19. "two feet" of baby: first church of Philadelphia, then Laodicea; Luke 7:38; John 12:3
20. a separation of the "tabernacle of David" from the "tabernacle of the congregation"; 1 Sam. 4:11; 1 Kings 3:4; 1 Chron. 16:1

There seems to be 2 contrasting groups in the above examples. Perhaps a certain number is translated before tribulation to fulfill a certain role, and the second group who have a purpose to fulfill on earth during the tribulation. Even the ones who are translated first will minister on the earth at that time, functioning as a "messengers" even as Jesus did during the 40 days of Acts 1:3.

I am asking the Lord to show me the truth. Most are seeing only one "translation / rapture". Any comments or suggestions are appreciated. Sincerely


To me, there are two Raptures, a First-Trump Rapture at Mid-Trib, and a Last-Trump Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath at the end of the Tribulation.

Num 10:1-4 says, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them (plural, i.e., both) for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them (i.e., both), all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes (i.e., the elders of Rev 4:4), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

Mat_19:28 And Jesus said unto them (i.e., the apostles), Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

Mat_24:37 says, "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luk_17:26 says, "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man."


1Th 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (phthano, precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. "


Rev 1:9,10 says, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion IN TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos (meaning mortal), for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet".

Rev 2:8-10 says, "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; 9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Rev 4:1,2 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was (lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne."

Rev 11:1-3 says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, RISE, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

Joh_16:33 says, "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

Act_14:22 says, "Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God."

Rom_12:12 says, "Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer".

2Co_1:4 says, "Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God."

Rev_2:9 says, "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

Rev_2:22 says, "Behold, I will cast her (i.e., the church of Thyatira) into a bed, and them that commit adultery (i.e., join) with her into GREAT TRIBULATION, except they repent of their deeds."

Rev_7:14 says, "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."


Rev 5:8-10 says, "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."


1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

Rev 11:12,13 says, "And they (i.e., Moses and Elijah) heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Rev 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Rev 7:9-17 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

Deu 4:30,31 says, "When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; 31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them."

Luk_17:28-30 says, "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded".29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" (i.e., they will see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky).


Rev 14:1-5 says, "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

Rev 14:15,16 says, "Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped."


Rev 14:18,19 says, "Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God." Agape


Thank you, Marilyn for taking the time to respond to this lengthy e-mail. I certainly appreciate your perspective and understanding of how this fits together. Blessings

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: "A Biblical Prophecy Everyone Can Watch Be Fulfilled"

Following is what my God, Jehovah says through His Prophets, concerning Damascus, Syria. I pray that all religions and non-believers would read until the end. Keep in mind that Damascus is one of the oldest known cities in the world and historically has never been destroyed. But the verses we will be looking at, from the Prophets of the Holy Bible, say that Damascus will be destroyed. And I think the time is very near. I don't set dates, and I'm not starting now. But look at the shape the world's in today, and remember that much of the turmoil is in Syria. In the Holy Bible, read all of Isaiah, Chap. 17 and Jeremiah, Chap. 49, Verses 23-27.

Isaiah, 17: 1. The burden of Damascus; Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city.

3. The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and in the kingdom of Damascus, and the remnant of Syria; they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel.

4. And in that day it shall come to pass, that the glory of Jacob shall be made thin, and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean.

My interpretation of these verses are (1) Something happens in Damascus that must be tragic for the city. (3) While there is fear and sadness, many oppressed people will search their faith, and many convert to other religions. (4) Jacob is the same as Israel (read Jeremiah 30:7 and Romans 11:26), so, Israel will have to use up a lot of its ammunition, in a short period of time, and it will become harder and harder to replenish their arms supplies, even from the United States, so then, Israel, one of the mightiest militaries in the world, weakens because of the fulfillment of this Prophesy. Everybody blames Israel. They will dismiss what Syria did to Israel that put everything in motion, because they will say that Israel's retaliation was one of overkill and murder. Israel will end up, cut off from the world. Perilous times are here now. Soon, Damascus will have been destroyed; the world will really be in turmoil; Israel will most likely have sanctions against them, and it will be as hard for Israeli's to find food as it will be to replenish weapons. We saw pictures of the Jews killed in Nazi training camps, and one thing you noticed about every one of them was that they hadn't had anything to eat. I believe the verse is telling us that the Israeli people will be growing thin, just like in Germany, but this time because of famine.

Isaiah, 17:7. At that day, shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.

12. Woe to the multitude of many people, which make a noise like the noise of the seas; and to the rushing of nations, that make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters.

13. The nations shall rush like rushing of many waters: Far, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

14. And behold at eveningtide (sundown) trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.

My interpretation is that (7) many people are scared to death; they're praying all the time; if man is having respect for the Holy One of Israel, then he is respecting the God of the Holy Bible. Many will make the connection to what God's Word says about the event that will have just taken place, and many will convert. (12 & 13) Probably the aftermath of the destruction of Damascus, where the mass Muslim population, as well as other nations with people in the area, (maybe our U.S. led coalition in Iraq and Syria now) will be scattering around like the wind to either get position in a firefight of ultimate proportion, or running from it. I think the rushing of nations like the rushing of mighty waters is referring to many different nations' naval buildup in the seas, because of all the turmoil, and seems to me that there is some kind of disturbance on the seas, and the noise is probably weapons from the ships and aircraft carriers. (14) Just at sundown, Syrian extremists will commit some kind of act of war against Israel. It may be an outright invasion on Israel, or Syria may launch some chemical weapon at Israel, whatever it is; Israel will say "enough is enough", and after dark that night, I believe, from a naval ship, Israel will launch a nuclear weapon and detonate it directly over Damascus. Damascus, which is a circular city with a diameter of about 30 miles across, from any point of the circle, will be utterly destroyed, including the close lying suburbs. Damascus could be destroyed by an earthquake or meteor I guess, but what these verses say, and especially what Jeremiah says in the following verses, make it evident that it's talking about war with fire, not Mother Nature.

Open your Bibles CNN, FOX, CBS, NBC, ABC, etc. God is passing on to you a future event that you will all be covering on your newscasts; an event that will change the world as we know it. No one can stop or change it. It is going to happen. All prophecy in the Holy Bible comes true. Forget political correctness, forget the law if they say this is hate speech; this is TRUTH speech. And forget Washington D.C., in my opinion, the most anti-christ administration I've ever seen. God's Word is more important than all of that. I just pray that most of the world hears about this prophecy and remembers it when it happens; that it was truly foretold to them by God through His Prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah over 3,000 years ago, and recorded in The Holy Bible, and that Christians brought it to their attention so they could see it fulfilled before their eyes, and know that it is a sign from the God of The Holy Bible. Then, they will question their faith and search their hearts for truth.

Jeremiah, Chap. 49: 23. Concerning Damascus. Hamath is confounded, and Arpad; for they have heard evil tidings; they are fainthearted; there is sorrow on the sea; it cannot be quiet.

24. Damascus is waxed feeble, and turneth herself to flee, and fear has seized on her, as a woman in travail.

25. How is the city of praise not left; the city of My joy.

26. Therefore her young men shall fall in her streets, and all the men of war shall be cut off in that day, saith the Lord of Hosts.

27. And I will kindle a fire in the wall of Damascus, and it shall consume the palaces of Benhadad.

Hamath and Arpad have heard evil tidings, so there's another indication that the destruction of

Damascus will be from war, not from Mother Nature. One just doesn't refer to a Mother Nature event

as evil. I think verse 23 is referring to other cities who have heard the news about Damascus, with another referral of activity on the sea (probably naval activity). The people left around Damascus are frantic; the whole world is shocked. Verse 24 & 25 say Damascus is gone; it's been destroyed. Verse 26 seems to say that there is a lot of death in Damascus and verse 27 tells me the damage in Damascus will be done by something that consumes with fire.

I said at the beginning that I would not give any kind of exact date. I don't do that. But, I have to say:

The trouble building up in Syria; "The end times" that many Christians believe we are living in, including me; the fact that Israel became a nation again in 1948 (prophesied in The Bible), the fact that Israel took back control of Jerusalem in 1967(prophesied), the fact that every nation seems to be ganging up on Israel (prophesied); there couldn't be a more prime time for this Prophesy to be fulfilled.

Notes to Remember:

1. Syria will commit and unforgivable act against Israel at sundown.

2. After dark that night, Israel will launch a nuclear missile from a naval ship (I believe Israel launches, not the U.S.).

3. It will be detonated directly over Damascus, Syria.

4. Damascus, Syria will have been completely destroyed before daylight.

5. No one can change this prophecy, not even the timing of it given in notes 1 & 2. God Bless You All!


I think Damascus will be destroyed by the asteroid impacts on the Day of God's Wrath.

Rev 8:1 says, "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."

There is also silence on Earth while the judge is being seated at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Hab_2:20 says, "But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him."

> > Jeremiah, Chap. 49: 23. Concerning Damascus. Hamath is confounded, and Arpad; for they have heard evil tidings; they are fainthearted; there is sorrow on the sea; it cannot be quiet.


Rev 8:8-11 says, "And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the SEA (i.e., the Mediterranean): and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. 10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star (aster) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Rev 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

Isa 22:5 says, "For IT IS A DAY OF TROUBLE, and of treading down, and of perplexity by the Lord GOD of hosts in the valley of vision, breaking down the walls, and of crying to the mountains."

Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? (Wormwood)17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL INTO A LARGE COUNTRY: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."


Eze 38:14-23 says, "Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? 15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: 16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes. 17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them? 18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (paniym, face, i.e., they will see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. 21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. 22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD."

All cities will be in shambles when every wall falls.

I just found some encouraging information. On 3-18-14, Elvi Zapata had a vision of the Rapture taking place within 7 somethings. Seven months would put the Rapture in October. Hope that is right.

Also, on Sept. 13, 2014, Dr. Owuor said that the Rapture will happen soon.

We should confess our sins and be wise virgins with enough oil of the Holy Spirit to last through the 8 days of Tabernacles.

The roofs of Israel's booths were to be constructed of leafy branches arranged so that they could see the sky. I wonder if that was because the heavens will be bright when Jesus comes for the Bride of Christ.


Rev 16:16-21 says, "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. 17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent".

"The heavy common talent, used in New Testament times, was 58.9 kilograms (130 lb).

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