Pro and Con 183, Updated 9-26-98, PM

Incoming Email

First, thank you, Lord, for answering our prayers for Marilyn and Ed.

I thought you might be interested in the attached.

From: The "Watchers" Mail List CHN Commentary 9-20-98

ROSH HASHANA 5759 has begun.... Is it Rapture time..??

For those who believe and teach that this is the time of the year that the Rapture of the Church will occur, try not to be too disappointed that it doesn't happen.

And it doesn't happen, not because this isn't the year; it doesn't happen because Rosh Hashana is not the appointed time for it to happen. And neither is Tabernacles, Passover, Firstfruits, Pentecost, or any other Jewish feast.

The Rapture of the Church occurs in the time of the year when Jesus, Himself, ascended into heaven. Jesus ascended 40 days after He rose from the dead; and He rose from the dead on Firstfruits.

The problem with those who believe otherwise is that they do not separate the covenant God made with the Jews from the covenant He made with Church.

The Church has been promised that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it", because "it is not appointed unto wrath". The Church will be taken out of the way [2Thes 2:7].

The Jews are appointed "unto wrath", and only a remnant of them will survive the "gates of hell". The gates that are attended by the "gate keeper" ..... Antichrist.

[The Jews will have their rapture and it will occur on a Feast of Trumpets, but it will be subsequent to the Rapture of the Church..]

But timing for the Rapture of the Church has been made "crystal clear" by God.

God is a God whose modus operandi is to cast shadows and fulfill them with like reflections, and only the "Ascension of Jesus" perfectly reflects the Rapture of the Church..... i.e. ...the Body of Christ caught up in both instances.

Once the distinction is made that God has a covenant with the Jews separate from the covenant with the Church, then the truth of the timing of the Rapture of the Church will erupt in one's spirit with praise and understanding.

All believers are well instructed to hold tightly to the truth of Ascension/Rapture, and let go of any other traditional belief [i.e. "we can't know the day or the hour" ,which refers to the second coming and not the Rapture] ..... for "...tradition makes void the word of God".

We call ourselves "watchers" because in Luke 12:37 Jesus said,
"Blessed are those whom the master, when he comes will find watching. Assuredly I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and come and serve them."

And as '''watchers" we watch daily for all the events that continue to unfold and point us to " that time" in "that year" when the Rapture will happen. And when it does happen, we will find ourselves sitting, and eating, and being served by Him.

Jesus is Lord. Keep Watching! Your brothers in Christ

My reply

Thanks for the card. I can't read them because I use an old Mac, but thanks for the thoughtfulness and prayers in our behalf. Ed's heart surgeon was Dr. A. Malki. We recommend him. Ed is doing so well, we are thrilled and thanking the Lord. All he seems to need at this point is to walk and regain strength, being VERY careful not to let his left toe fold under and trip him. He would have fallen yesterday if he had not been using his walker. He does better with shoes on. His appetite seemed to come back yesterday. He still can't take clothing touching his scars, but that is small stuff that should go away soon.

(Note: Ed told me this afternoon to tell everyone how very much he appreciates all your prayers. He thanks the Lord that he is even here today. Not everyone is so lucky.)

I hope you are right about the time of the Rapture. Next year, by inclusive reckoning, the 40th day from Sunday, Nisan 18, comes out 27 Iyar (our May 13). I'm not sure about that because that is Thursday. >From Rev. 1:10, I think Sunday is more likely for the Rapture.

We are under a new covenant, but the Jews were given this new covenant at the time of the First Advent. Gentiles are grafted in. The whole thing can't be entirely separated. All the OT things promised Israel will come true for literal Israel, but we are all one in the Body of Christ.

I'm watching.

Incoming Email plus my reply

> Thank you for answering my questions on Teshuva. You seem to make
> everything much clearer.
> You wrote: "Those that did not make it out in Rapture 2 or get killed will
> accept Christ as their Messiah and be accepted on Yom Kippur, the Day of
> Atonement. They will live on into the Millennium on Earth."

***Hi from Marilyn. This refers to the remnant of Israel. Isa. 66:8 shows that the nation will be born in a day, often called in the OT "that day." I think it is the first day of the Millennium, the Day of God's Wrath.

> I thought that once God's angels separated the wheat from the tares at
> Rapture 2, those left would not repent.

***It seems that the remnant of Israel finally understands, maybe because of their heritage and what they have been taught of Scripture. Some other people either don't understand or are too stubborn to repent. At the end of the sixth trumpet judgment, Rev. 9:20 says, "the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repent not." When the fourth vial is poured out and men are scorched with great heat, they still "blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory" (Rev. 16:9).

Yet, at the Judgment of the Nations after the Second Advent, there are people called sheep, goats, and brethren (Israelites). To the sheep, he says, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Mt. 25:34). These helped the brethren. Christ tells them, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels...And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Mt. 25:40,41,46). Here there is no resurrection, no books are opened. The sheep live on during the Millennium.

> When does God's judgement on the unbelievers happen?

***At the great white throne judgment at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:11-15).

> Also, when Jesus arose from the dead, He brought some of the dead
> with Him. Were they Old Testament believers that He revealed Himself to
> when He descended and at that time they received Him as the Messiah?

***As I understand it, they were saved during their lifetime by believing that the Messiah would come. Jesus took all in Abraham's Bosom (Lu. 16:22), Paradise, to heaven with him on Resurrection Day (Eph. 4:8). From that time on, Paradise has been in Heaven.

> Are these resurrected believers all part of the Bride of Christ, or are
> some of them simply part of those invited to the wedding supper.

***Nationally, Israel was the rejected wife. The Bride of Christ is a New Testament concept given to the Church. It was played out when King Ahasuerus set aside Vashti and gave "her royal estate unto another (Esther) that is better than she" (Esther 1:19). Also, John the Baptist called himself the friend of the bridegroom. However, on an individual basis, and since some of the last shall be first and some of the first last, I think it is up to the Lord to judge fairly who is worthy of what. What is true nationally may not always apply individually. We know of Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Sarah, that "now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly" (Heb. 11:16). I leave it up to Christ. He is the judge, and he is fair.

> Is there a difference between the people invited to the wedding supper and > the people who are part of the bride's party and the Groom's party?

***Again, the Lord has to decide in each individual case, but in general, those called to the Wedding Supper of the Lamb after the Wedding of the Lamb takes place do not seem to be part of the Bride of Christ. It seems that there will be at the Supper people who can be called friends of the Bride (i.e., Tribulation saints) and people who can be called friends of the Bridegroom (i.e., OT saints). That is not to say that every Old Testament or every Tribulation saint is in this group. Since some of the last will be first, etc., and since we are not to judge before the time, the whole thing is probably not that cut and dried. Judgment is on an individual basis.

> Will there be Old Testament believers resurrected at Rapture 2, or have all
> of them been resurrected? If not, when will they be resurrected?

***If the first Rapture is for the Bride, it seems like the rest might be raised at Rapture 2, but I would sure hate to say that for sure. We know that there are ranks in the first resurrection (I Cor. 15:23), but it is up to the Lord to decide who belongs where.

> Will those who have died not believing wait until the Millennium is over
> to be resurrected and judged?

***Yes. Rev. 20:5 says, "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." Rev. 10:13 says, "Death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." They will find out that no amount of works will save them. Only genuine faith in the Messiah, Jesus Christ (Yeshua HaMashiach) will do that.

> Will those who are left on earth after the Day of the Lord also be
> judged at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ?

***I assume that they will be.

I know you are busy, and I don't want to bother you, so if you could just
show me where the scriptures are in answer to one or more of these
questions, I could look them up myself. As it is I am so engrossed in the
Word now that I'm neglecting my household to some extent -- but it's SO
exciting!
God bless you, Marilyn! Love in Jesus

Added 9-26-98, PM:
[i] End of Netanyahu's New Year speech, something we can all agree on: "The challenges we face are still formidable. To meet them, we must be united in purpose, strong in resolve and unbending in faith. "I wish you all a year of peace, security, health and happiness." Sincerely, Benjamin Netanyahu (Arutz 7, September 20, 1998)

[i] FWD: Washington D.C. to install smart card parking meters, Weekend News Today, Source: Washington Times
---
Sun Aug 9 , 1998 -- Washington DC. plans to intall 15,500 electonic meters by mid-October. The meters already are equipped to take parking account cards, or "smart cards," instead of coins. The smart cards work similarly to ATM and debit cards. Customers put money on their cards and insert them at meters instead of using change. Smart card meters have several features that officials say will soon dominate the meter world: -Meter cards soon may work as debit cards in convenience stores, movie theaters and restaurants. A pilot program later this year in Boston will implement more than 200 of these multipurpose meters near Boston University. The pre paid card will work at the campus convenience store.

- The Unitersity of Maryland at College Park has a debit meter card system that allows customers to get unused money back.

Many meters of the future will have a photo sensor light that will enable ticketers to spot expired flags from across a parking lot. Many enforcers now have a device that reads how long the meter has been expired.
[r] People are insidiously being herded into Satan's ultimate trap, taking the Mark of the Beast. Don't be fooled, Satan is very smart. We are being trained to accept and use smart cards for everything. The MARC card is being used by the military. The chip implant is already being tested on a segment of the public. Even Stater Bros. Super Market, having something like 40 stores here in Southern California, will have the technology to read them soon. How anyone could not know we are in the end times is beyond me. I wonder if there is even a slot for coins besides the card slot on the parking meters. Are people who have to park there even given a choice? Gradually, choice and alternatives are being taken away from us. Using smart cards is becoming a way of life. What happens when many of those that have read Rev. 13:16-18 are caught up in the Rapture? How many that don't read the Bible will realize what the circular red logo seen on Lucent vans nowdays stands for. I saw it on TV last night and it was so indistinct that if I hadn't already known it was a red dragon, I wouldn't have thought anything about it. Are our senses supposed to be lulled to sleep by familiarity? I genuinely feel sorry for anyone left behind at the Rapture.

[i] I was reading your Pro and Con site and found the question, "...do you know anything about Wiersbe."

I am a sunday school teacher at a Southern Baptist Church in Texas, and here is my opinion.

Warren W. Wiersbe is one of the best Bible expositors that I know of. His books rates very high on my list as a reference/commentary. Every Serious Christian who wants to study the Bible in depth should have his Be Series.
[i] I'm enjoying your writings.
[r] I appreciate your telling me. God bless.
[i] Jim Bramlett wrote:
Dear friends: Last night I got an exciting call from Ron Reese of Maranatha Ministries in Michigan. Ron is a serious seeker and very knowledgeable, 25-year student of Biblical prophecy. I consider him a "watchmen on the wall" with very keen vision.

Ron wanted to give me advance information of some amazing, corroborating findings that he is putting in his latest newsetter due out in a couple of weeks. The below is just a brief summary, minus Ron's detailed explanations, which will follow when received. He authorized me to share this with you now.

Following prayer and study, Ron believes the Lord may have shown him something profound. He has also been in communications with Bob Wadsworth, the biblical astronomer whose computer can describe the alighment of the stars at any moment of time since Adam. Apparently, not only has our sovereign, omnipotent God put the gospel in the heavens, but possibly also His plan for the ages, and timing.

Ron wants to make sure no one thinks he is "predicting," or setting dates, and he is not dogmatic about this, but based on a rare alignment of planets occuring only at the fall of Adam, Christ's crucifixion, and May 6, 2002, plus some new converging calculations from Adam's fall and Christ's crucifixion using both biblical (360-day) years and modern years, Ron says it is very possible that the final seven-year tribulation will begin November 23-24, 1998, and the Great Tribulation, the final 3 1/2 years, on May 6, 2002, with Christ's return in power on October 18, 2005 (Tabernacles). (2005 is the same year calculated several years ago using several different biblical mathmatical paths by New Zealander George C. Curle in his excellent book, "Times of the Signs.")

Ron is not saying when the rapture may be, but he agrees that if the above is true, it could be any day before, or on, November 23-24, 1998, such as Tabernacles (October 5) or maybe any day since we are not 100 percent sure the removal of the Gentile church must absolutely fall on a Jewish feast day. It could even be the "the 17th day of the second month" (Genesis 7:11) on the civil Hebrew calendar, November 6, I believe, when Noah and his family became safe from the beginning flood.

Interestingly, the November 1998 window is compatible with several other indications about the beginning of judgment.

Ron is going to work on his newsletter this weekend and promised to try to fax me an advance copy the first of next week. I will try to transcribe all or part of it and e-mail it to you as soon as I can, hopefully by mid-week....
Maranatha, Jim
[r] No matter how much I would like for that to be true, I can't buy it.

> Ron says it is very possible that the final seven-year tribulation will begin
> November 23-24, 1998, and the Great Tribulation, the final 3 1/2 years, on
> May 6, 2002, with Christ's return in power on October 18, 2005 (Tabernacles).

When the Tribulation begins, I think the temple will be there. As the two witnesses begin to prophesy at the beginning of the Tribulation, Rev. 11:1 says, "measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." Some say the two witnesses' ministry is the last half of the Tribulation, but the witnesses prophesy 1260 days. That is 3 1/2 years, and the last half of the Tribulation is shortened. I think the False Prophet kills them the first day he takes office in the middle of the Tribulation. The holy city is tread under foot 42 months by "Gentiles." That is under the rulership of The Beast. Things will change when the Israeli False Prophet takes the reins Mid-Tribulation.

I do not think Christ will return on Tabernacles, but on Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year and Sacred Year (Ezek. 19:17,21; Hos. 6:1-3). Joel 2:1-3 and other scriptures show that the catastrophe at the beginning the the millennial Day of the Lord is on the Feast of Trumpets. That is the day the army under Gog attacks Israel and the Lord's fury comes up in his face (Ezek. 38:18,19). He will fight for Israel when they blow the alarm on the trumpets. It is 7 months from that day to Nisan 1 (Ezek. 39:12). Therefore, it is a Jewish leap year.

The Jewish 5766 (our 2005/6) is not a leap year. The only two possibilities are 5765 (2004/5) and 5768 (2007/8). Of these two years, only 5768 follows a 2300-day shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:14) that starts on the Feast of Weeks and ends on the Feast of Trumpets. The year 5768 has a couple of other pluses in its favor that 5765 does not. It starts in 2007, 40 years after the Six-Day War of 1967. It is also a Sabbatic Year, perfect timing for the Lord who set up the Sabbatic Years in the first place.

Concerning the Rapture, Ron said,
> It could even be the "the 17th day of the second month" (Genesis
> 7:11) on the civil Hebrew calendar, November 6, I believe, when Noah and
> his family became safe from the beginning flood.

Cheshvan 17 (Nov. 6, 1998) does have a chance to be the day because the Rapture is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37). It is the day the Lord closed the door of the Ark (Gen. 7:16), and the day the rain came. Christ comes as the rain (Hos. 6:3). However, this would mean that Song of Solomon 2:11's the rain is over and gone would not apply to the Rapture.

> we are not 100 percent sure the removal of the Gentile church must
> absolutely fall on a Jewish feast day.

That is true, but it being born on Pentecost makes it likely.
[i] Thanks, Marilyn, you may very well be right. I greatly respect your views. Both you and Ron are more knowledgeable than I, but since I am unsure, I share these things with others as they come along and let everyone judge them. If nothing else, they stimulate thought, study and other sharing, as you have done. God bless, Jim
[i] Different opinions (Jim Bramlett)
Dear friends: My sharing of different understandings about end-time events may cause some to be puzzled at yet one more opinon, and ask, "What does Jim really believe?" This is a legitimate question, and it deserves an answer.

Please know that there are many people much more knowledeable than I am about biblical prophecy, and I greatly respect them all. Their own opinions vary widely, but I pay close attention to them all. I believe all reasonable interpretations and claimed supernatural revelations by sincere believers deserve our respect and prayerful attention. If they fail to come to pass, I do not consider them false prophets, but brothers or sisters in Christ who are saved by grace who simply had an incorrect interpretation. But I praise God that they were trying. No problem.

I have some strong opinions based on Scripture, I believe, but so far I have not been called to set forth and dogmatically proclaim a specific timetable and scenario. And so far, no one else has been correct. Therefore, I am open to reasonable, different interpretations. My calling seems to be to share information and let the readers judge. The main truth that God has strongly impressed upon my heart to share is this -- the return of the Lord Jesus Christ is very, very near. The evidence is overwhelming, and growing.

It does seem clear in the Scriptures that God has not completely hidden these things and will reveal His secrets, including His timing, to whomever and whenever He pleases. Someday, soon I believe, someone will be correct! Maybe someone already is. Let us pray for insight and understanding. And let us also remain open. God may have some surprises for us all.

Maranatha, Jim
[r] Healthy discussion of different views in God's agape love is great. Thereby we can sift out the real truth. It will stand when it can be supported by the Bible. Other things will fall when they are found to be contrary to the Bible. No one person knows it all. Maybe all we need to finish working the puzzle is the insight given to one other person. All should be considered in light of Scripture. Hang on to it if it is good, and throw it out if not. Happy sifting.
[i] I echo the many thank you's to you for your ministry. I have been so blessed. Just wanted to share a verse the Lord gave me concerning this wait. Luke 18:8 ..."when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" Let us remain faithful to look for His SOON glorious appearing! Love
[r] Amen to that, no matter when it takes place.
[i] Every time I read or think about 1/5 of the corn being harvested, I wonder if all the world's population are "corn". All people (corn) will eventually be harvested. Corn must be be picked when at particular degree of maturity. So I pray to stay "ripe", ready for 'picking' when Jesus shouts "come up" (the Rapture occurs).
Oh, how I long to see Him, my (our) Holy, loving bridegroom; what glory!.

MARANATHA! In Christian love
[r] I want to be ripe for picking too.

The corn of the bible is really a generic name for cereal grains. The corn of our days was not included. I like to think this is talking about wheat.
[i] thank you, all i can say is that i pray my husband will open his heart up to our dear Lord and believe in Him so he will not have to go through the tribulation, but i also am hopeful that if he doesn't, he will still have another chance before the 2nd rapture if there really is one. God speed....PEACE IN HIM
[r] Those Tribulation saints in Rev. 7:14 do get to Heaven. The Lord is not going to let his saints go through the Day of God's Wrath. There is also a chance that we will go up two by two, as all in the Ark were married.
[i] ...Yes, His coming is at the door & we are to look up for our redemption draweth nigh! In fact, the same Christian sister received a Word from the Lord during the Sunday service last week that Jesus is coming very, very, very soon. He is even at the door. I too have received similar Words over the last few months that He is at the Door! God bless you & very soon we will see each other UP THERE! Praise God!
[r] I can't see how it can be very long. World events just keep clicking into place leading up to the Tribulation.
[i] Re: Vincent: From: Jim Bramlett
Vincent Tan is the Christian friend from Singapore, now living in Tennessee, who had the two angel encounters in 1993 which I confirmed in detail and wrote about in the article on angels now available at http://www.az.com/~cryalls/angels.html. In both cases, the angel said the Lord "is coming very, very soon."

He also had the amazing experience in 1996 described in my "God Makes a Telephone Call" article at http://www.az.com/~cryalls/telecall.html.

I have just received a report from Vincent that he had another amazing experience in the early morning hours of Sunday, September 13th 1998. The following is from his account.

Vincent had been working late in his chemist job to finish up some urgent jobs and left work at about 1 a.m. When he got outside, he suddenly realized that he had left his keys on his desk, but was not able to get back inside because of the automatic lock on the door. So now he could neither get back inside, nor drive his truck. He prayed that the Lord would unlock his truck, but nothing happened.

He walked across the street to a pay phone but discovered it had been vandalized. He remembered his cellular phone in his back pack, took it out, then realized he had left the battery at home to be recharged. Nevertheless, he prayed and asked the Lord to allow him to make one call. As soon as he prayed, he noticed the phone lighting up, and he called a friend to pick him up. The friend agreed to do so.

Vincent then sat down by a doorstep of the lab and waited. A little while later a police car drove up and stopped. The policeman said, "What are you doing?"

"I'm waiting for a friend," Vincent replied. He told the policeman his situation, about the prayer to open his truck, and the call to his friend.

The policeman replied, "Your friend isn't coming." He noticed Vincent's Bible, and added, "That's a good book to read." Some conversation ensued in which Vincent disclosed his faith and his belief that the Lord is coming "very, very soon."

The policeman replied, "I believe the Lord's coming is very, very near too."

At that very moment, a call came in over the policeman's radio and he said he had to leave. Before he left, he said, "Why don't you pray and ask the Lord to open the door to your lab?" Vincent said he watched him leave, while praying silently.

Vincent said, "I had barely finished praying when the lab door miraculously opened. I immediately stood up and turned around towards the door and noticed that someone had pushed the lock bar and opened it from the inside. I held on to the door and turned to look at the police car and noticed he was not to be seen, even though I had taken my eye off for only a few seconds."

Vincent got his keys and drove away in his truck. He drove by his friendıs home and "noticed both their vehicles in their driveway" (they must have gone back to sleep, forgetting Vincent).

Vincent added, "I left for home believing I may have actually spoken with an angel."

NOTE: If Vincent did speak with an angel, we have another confirming message. Be encouraged. "Yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him² (Hebrews 10:37-38, NKJV).
[i] I'm so glad that the L-rd is answering all our prayers for you and your family.  We all look forward to your postings for strength and reassurance in a troubled world....
[r] Thanks. It is nice to be appreciated.

   Pro and Con 184   Or Return  Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@kiwi.net

send me e-mail now.

8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110, FAX (909) 697-8960


© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 9-26-98