Pro and Con 19
Incoming Email, Re: Date of the Rapture?
...God is good!! I wrote you a few days ago, wondering if you were the author of 'The End of the Age' and I appreciate your very prompt reply that same day, thanks! I been browsing your web page alot since then, interesting stuff! Very nice site!
My passion has always been Bible Prophecy....In 1994 I still didn't understand prophecy like I wanted to, I had a yearning in my Spirit to know more, so, one day I was in a Bookstar bookstore looking in the religous section looking at the books. This bookstore was secular, so my expectations were not high on finding any book of substance. But, for some reason at that moment I felt led to pray, to ask the Lord for greater understanding of the endtime events. So I did. Right after my silent! pra yer to the Lord, within seconds I saw your book: 'The End of the Age'. I started thumbing thru it, looked interesting, so I bought it. I read it thru within days and received much insight into the endtimes, just as I had asked. As you can see that was basically 3 years ago.
Just recently I again got an urging of the Spirit to look at the timing of the rapture. I knew from your book, the time is near. But this time I felt I really needed to look deeply into why Pentecost 1998. So I did some study. I know to you Pentecost really makes since, and to some extent me to. But, I never felt it was necessarily so, because it made since. From my study I started to look into the exact day the past events had taken place. For instance May 14 (Zif/Iyyar 14) is the Second Passover (Num 9:10,11) for those unable to keep the first. Then on the "Second Passover" (a type) May 14, 1948 Israel became a nation. This was the first series I looked at. Then the 450 year period until Samuel the Prophet (Acts 13:19,20) in I Samuel 1:20,21 it talks about Samuel being born then the rest of the family went up to offer the yearly sacrifices, Pentecost? Sivan 6 which is almost exactly the day the 6 day war in 1967 took place. See what I mean? At this point I was getti! ng p retty excited. I wondered if I could find an exact date in scripture for a rapture type of an event. I knew that the Ark was a type of the rapture. Open door, shut by God on a certain day, etc . . . Also the scripture: "As in the days of Noah . . ." So I thought, "Is there a specific day name for entering the Ark and then the door being closed? Guess what, there sure was. The day mentioned was Zif/Iyar 17 (Gen 7:11-13) and for 1998 it is May 13, 1998!!
I was doing all this study 2 or 3 weeks ago. A few days ago I wanted to discuss this with you and I did a search for your email address, which I eventually found. Then you told me of your web site, etc . . . Now for the really cool part. I was reading some more on your web site tonight 9/16/97 and I found your: "Fax from a Rabbi", which I promptly printed out and read.
He was saying about "THE CITY IS 30 YEARS, THE NATION LESS THAN 50" and how there is a window of time between now and May 14, 1998 for all He said to be so. When I read May 14, 1998 it heit me like a ton of bricks. I realized that the date I had figured for the rapture fit perfectly: May 13, 1998 or Zif 17, 1998. WOW!! May 13 is the last day that: "THE CITY IS 30 YEARS, THE NATION LESS THAN 50"!! Also the time frame is correct with all your stuff too. Noah went into the Ark: Zif 17, and the rapture seems to me will occur Zif 17 also. What do you think? The rapture of the Church, then Israel becomes a nation of priests close to the same time. It all fits. What do you think?
...hopefully we can discuss this in more detail. I'm very interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks!!
My reply Our months do not automatically line up with Jewish months. May 14, 1948 fell on Iyar 5, 5708, not Iyar 14, the "Second Passover."
Iyar 5 falls on May 1 in 1998. For accuracy, we have to use the Jewish calendar.
I think the Rapture will fall on a Feast day. They were "moedim," appointed times, rehearsals, for things to come.
I want to prefice this with I am not wanting a conflict or a dual of what you know versus what I know. We should all be striving for the truth.
I have read the scriptures for over 20 yrs. and am now just seeing them for the first time if you understand what I mean by that. The anointing from the Holy Spirit I received last yr has made the Word of God so real to me.
Anyway I am not a scholar but am confused as to your time line. I wonder where do you see the weapons burning for seven yrs. Ezek 38 and 39 appear to happen first in what I see. And Dan. 9:27 also goes with that.
Now where do you see these?
I also thought I had read everything about the rapture that I could and now the possibility of two is mind boggling.
Anyway Where does 2Thes. 2:1-4 come into your time line.
I will share with you what I sense and see in just the reading of the Word in the last year.
I must spend at least 30 hrs a week since last Oct. and the Lord has shown me marvelous things.
First I see a war very soon possibly this Atonement day Then Dan. 9:27 with the signing of peace treaty. Then Ezra with the start of the temple on the Mount. The same time there will be a nuke that was dropped in this war and then the seven months of burying bodies.
Well It is what the Word has shown me.
Like I said I am not into conflict I am a servant of the Lord Jesus and I do not want to misguide anyone but I also want the truth.
We are both trying hard to understand a difficult subject. Discussion in God's agape love should be fruitful. We can even agree to disagree without being disagreable. As long as we are right about Christ, we can be wrong about other things and still make it to Heaven.
> I wonder where do you see the weapons burning for seven yrs. Ezek 38
> and 39 appear to happen first in what I see.
The weapons burn for 7 yrs. after the Day of God's Wrath, Tishri 1, 5768, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. The united nation's army attacks Israel that day. Then Ezek. 38:18-22 will come true.
It says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, the beasts of the field...and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake...And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands...an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone." This is the day the asteroid hits. One piece as big as a mountain hits the Mediterranean Sea (Rev. 8:8) and destroys Gaza, Ashkelon and the cities of the coast at noon (Jer. 47:6,7; Zeph. 2:4). Of the army, Ezek. 39:2 says, "And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee."
> Where does 2Thes. 2:1-4 come into your time line
The False Prophet sits in the temple "shewing himself that he is God" in the middle of the Tribulation. At that time, Satan is cast down to Earth (Rev. 12:9) and enters into the False Prophet. He immediately tries to show that he is God. But Ezek.28:3 says, "Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God."
The Rapture comes first. There is a gap between the Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation, when he peace treaty is confirmed. During this gap, the temple, or at least the altar, will be rebuilt, for the sacrificing begins at the start of the Tribulation.
Here is what I believe in a nutshell. (omitted because it is already on Pro and Con somewhere).
Incoming Email, Re: "secret of secrets revealed"
I came across a copy of your book on the rapture and was fascinated by the information set forth in it. Intrigued, I checked out your web site and read all the pro/con entries listed there. While I think your argument for a given date of the rapture is the most convincing I've ever read I am troubled by one thing which I hope you won't think too presumptous of me to put forth to you: numerous times you have said that you believe that it was divine inspiration that led you to figure out all of these hidden things which point to the rapture occurring on Pentecost, 1998; that the Holy Spirit opened your eyes to these previously hidden truths. But then in the next breath you say repeatedly that you are not a prophet, that you could be wrong but that is how the dates appear to you. In my spirit I feel that these two positions contradict one another; that if the inspiration to discover these previously hidden truths truly were from the Holy Spirit then you can't be wrong about the date because the Holy Spirit does not lead one to false or erroneous conclusions. There is not doubt that the rapture WILL occur on that date. Therefore, it would be imprudent for you, I feel, to leave an "out" for yourself just in case the rapture does not occur. It is possible that you did a brilliant piece of scholarly work in deceiphering these complex dates, albeit without the help of the Holy Spirit in which case you have every right to say that you could be wrong about the date and no one would think the less, But I truly believe that it is an unwise thing to say both (i.e. that it was God who opened up the truths of the rapture issue to you but that you could be wrong about the date). I know you're very busy but if you have a little free time could you address my concerns as this question troubles my soul about whether to genuinely consider the Pentecost as a possible accurate date for the rapture. Could you also post my letter on your pro/con section so that others can give thought to this issue and read your response. This is not written in the spirit of confrontation. I admire your work and really want to understand a solution to my inner dilemma on this point.
Everyone needs the Holy Spirit to understand Scripture. It would have been impossible for me to have figured out these things on my own. To those without the indwelling Holy Spirit, the Bible is like so much nonsense. The main thing that is really clear to the unbeliever is how to be saved. If they do not believe, it is as Isa. 28:13 says, "But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." If it was all crystal clear, the prophecies would not come true. Some things must be hard to understand so "none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand" (Dan. 12:10).
I am not a prophet. Numbers 12:6 says, "If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream." The Lord spoke to me and said, "Be still and know that I am God," but he did not speak to me in a dream, and he has not made himself known to me in a vision. He has not said one more word to me in all these years, either.
I think the only prophets of the end times are Moses and Elijah, who will prophesy during the first half of the Tribulation.
The Bible is finished. Nothing can be added. All we need is to understand what is there. We are to search the scriptures and see if these things be so.
Even when Jesus was talking to the apostles, he said, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will GUIDE you into all truth" (John 16:13). He did not just dump everything on them all at once. In the verse before, he said, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now."
All my years of deep Bible study have been a constant learning process. Everything I know now was not dumped on me at once. I can make mistakes. In 1968, when I finally realized when the main end-time events would take place, I made a big one. I thought the Translation of the Tribulation Saints was in the middle of the Tribulation. After maybe two years, I read Daniel 11 WITH Daniel 12 and realized that it is at the time of the end. What fooled me was the mention of Michael the archangel, which I tied in with Rev. 12. There Michael is mentioned in the middle of the Tribulation. It was easy to assume that the Tribulation saints were raptured when Moses and Elijah hear "Come up hither" in the middle of the Tribulation.
On my own, I was not able to figure out how long Armageddon lasted. Finally, I told the Lord he would have to show me. And he did; it rained 40 days and 40 nights here in southern California. I have the tab section, "The Savage Storm," put out by the Santa Ana Register with the exact beginning and ending dates in it. In this case, I just did not understand what he meant when he said in Dan. 9:26, "and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
The Lord helps me to understand what is already in Scripture. The Holy Spirit helps many others also to see new things in Scripture here near the end of the age. This was foretold in Daniel 12:4. They are not all prophets. The thing was already in Scripture. All they needed were new eyes to see with so they could recognize what it meant.
II Timothy 2:15 says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." I studied hard, and one new thing at a time came clear to me. This is the norm. This is the way the Holy Spirit guides us. Like algebra cannot be understood until you know basic arithmetic, some things just cannot be understood until you know another thing. The more you know about the Bible, the more you can know. There is more there than we will ever dig out in this lifetime.
The important thing is not the date of the Rapture, but that we get ready. We must be wearing white wedding garments. My hope is that your knowing that the Rapture may come in a matter of months will kindle an urgency to be ready as never before.
Incoming Email, Re: Chronology
Here is a passage from my yet unpublished chronology:
Acts 7:2-4a; Gen. 12:1-4a.
This is the depature point for the 430 year sojourn (Gal. 3:17; Exodus 12:40-41). The Acts passage makes it clear that Abraham was called out of Ur, and God hereafter speaks of bringing him out of Ur. It is therefore, not proper to date the sojourn from the departure from Haran. .... [I'm leaving out my dates for now]. This date for the departure from Ur [I leave this out] is derived by adding 430 years to the Exodus. However this does not determine the chronology. The chronology is determined by the 400 years from Isaac to the Exodus. Martin Antsey, and David L. Cooper error greatly at this point by dating the 430 years from Abram's leaving Haran. For the sojourn had begun when they left their homes in Ur, where God had first called him. Cooper and Antsey suppose that the 400 years of (Gen. 15:13) dates from the feast that Abraham made when Isaac was weaned (Gen. 21:8), which they suppose was 5 years after his birth. But in fact the prophecy said, "Thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs ... four hundred years." That leaves out 5 years of Isaac's being a stranger in a land not his.
Do you see the problem?
In the Septuagint, Exodus 12:40 says, "And the sojourning (mowshab, dwelling, i.e., continuation of existence) of the children of Israel, while they sojourned (dwelt) in the land of Egypt and the land of Chanaan, was four hundred and thirty years." To me, that does not include Ur.
I think it is reasonable that Ishmael had to be cast out before Isaac became the seed. Ishmael was Abraham's first born.
Email Forwarded to me
> > Mom, do you believe as strongly as M.J. that the heavens are interpreted
> > to be the planets? it just seems too limiting for God to dwell within
> > our solar system when the universe is so vast--surely God is bigger than
> > the universe; he created it. Her evidence does seem credible, though; I
> > can see how she arrived at the conclusion....
> Dear...Yes, the thought did occur to me, but this is a special
> solar system and galaxy which is right in the center of the known
> universe. This is the world where Jesus chose to populate a people to
> worship Him and where He redeemed us from the fall. If the word
> "heavens" means planets then there is another word which He uses to
> describe the rest of the universe. I don't know what that word would
> be. Maybe someone else does....
There has to be more than we can discern at this time. I believe...is the throne of Jesus Christ, but the Father--all the universe cannot contain him.
We have a few hints. In Isa. 52:10, we read, "The LORD hath made bare HIS HOLY ARM (i.e., Jesus Christ) in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God." Isa 53 starts out, "WHO hath believed our report? and to whom is the ARM of the LORD revealed. Col. 3:1 says, "IF ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth ON THE RIGHT HAND of God."
Jesus was given "all fullness" (Col. 1:19), and "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (II Cor. 5:19), but one human body can not contain all of God. In him we live and move and have our being.
Email Forwarded to me
> Dear..., Don't think she answered the question on your mind about the name
> relating to "heaven" which includes the universe. Undoubetedly, from her
> perspective there are more than 7 heavens. We do say that when we die we are going
> to "heaven". I'd always thought of heaven as someplace in the sky.
> It could be one of the planets, but I'd always thought of it as some precise
> place, I didn't know where, but a place where all of those people were waiting
> for us. Hopefully we won't be in suspense much longer....
P.S. I left out some things I meant to include last time.
The word "universe" is not used to translate any word in the KJV. The heaven of heavens seems to cover the whole universe though. See what you think.
I Kings 8:27 says, "behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee" There is some difference here between "the heaven" and "heaven of heavens."
Good thought. That would describe the universe which encompasses all of the "heavens" or planets. That will relieve ... mind since as a computer programmer she has learned never to leave loose ends otherwise "bugs" turn into frightful epidemics.
...We'll soon have all of these mysteries clearly revealed.
I was reading your message about Barbara Richmond and the FAX from the the Rabbi from Jerusalem. As you know I talked with Barbara on the phone on May 13. AT that time they were speculating on a rapture for May 14,'97. She was planning to return to Jerusalem this summer. I have not heard from her lately. If the Fax is correct about the 30/50, would the Bride have to be out of here before the Jerusalem Jews assume leadership positions? If so, Jerusalem will be 50 on May 14, 1998. They would have to assume leadership while they are still 49, according to their Numbers 4 theory. Or will they have assumed spiritual leadership sometime between now and then and the Bride be taken out after her task is finished but not on the exact date that the Jerusalem Jews take over? They would have taken over at least 16 or 17 days before the rapture.
Since Jesus began his ministry when he was "ABOUT 30 years of age" (Luke 3:23), this could well end up being "ABOUT 30 years of age."
The word "about" was also used when the Israelites passed through the Jordan. Joshua 3:3,4 says, "When ye see the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it. Yet there shall be a space between you and it, ABOUT two thousand cubits." These designations are important. God chose his words carefully to tell the exact truth.
I expect the Rapture on a Feast Day. They were "moedim," appointment days, rehearsal days.
Also, Those Messianic Jews may be chosen as part of the Bride of Christ and be caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture. The Tribulation saints will have to pick up the pieces and go on from that point. We know that 144,000 Jews will be involved in that.
Just so you'll know if I don't answer an email right away, on Monday, my server is going to upgrade and change some things. I got email last night warning that email may take a few days after that to catch up with us.
Incoming Email, Re: Problem with Bible Codes
From Drosnin's book, "The computer divided the entire bible-the whole strand of 304,805 letters-into 64 rows of 4772 letters. The Bible code print-out is a snapshot of the center of that matrix. In the middle of the snapshot is the name 'Yitzhak Rabin' with each letter circled." Oh, yes, on p 25 he says, "To find the code, Rips eliminated all the spaces betweeen the words, and turned the entire original bible into one continuous letter strand, 304,805 letters long. In doing that, he was actually restoring the Torah to what great sges say was its original form." Is that what you're after?
Yes. Thanks. I think the ELS in the continuous letter strand brings up the right codes.
Now here is what bothers me, the cut-off point at 4772 letters per row. If they had made it any other number, say 4773, wouldn't the vertical and diagonal words showing up be different?
Help me out...I am not clear on your question...it is something I have not given thought to and I am not sure how that plays out.
If the Masoretic text is all one continuous strand, and there are ELS (equidistant letter spacing) words found in that, God must have put them there.
However, If that strand was broken into fourths and each of the fourths were stacked, one below the other, on a scroll, the words found vertically and diagonally would differ from another scroll on which the strand was broken into ten pieces and stacked, one below the other.
Is the breaking of the strand every 4772 letters inspired? Are the 64 rows inspired? How did they decide where to break the strand? Did they just happen to hit on the right combination by chance? These are questions in my mind that keep me from thinking that the vertical and diagonal words are inspired. They may be, but until I understand what motivated them to break the one strand every 4772 letters, I must be skeptical.
So, for now, I accept the horizontal words found, but not necessarily the vertical and diagonal ones.
Incoming Email from another, Re: Bible Code
As I recall, in the Bible Code, the line numerical limit was insignificant. It was the most letters they could get on one line but the computer did not consider that line change, it continued to see the string of letters as continual. When the computer found the letters looked for it then stacked those lines together to make the word, then other words were found coming off of that word or words or very nearby.
Incoming Email, Re: 144,000
... has brought out the point that the Jews who will assume spiritual leadership secondary to the over 30/under 50 thesis will be the 144,000 who will be sealed, and that the "sealing" must take place during that timespan of months while both are true. therefore the 144,000 shortly must be "sealed". the question remains as to whether we must be out of here before the "sealing". Will that be just as the numbers of those who receive salvation and the infilling of the Holy Spirit increase to a total of 144,000, or must a ritual ceremony take place? I'm certainly curious about this, along with the question as to whether we leave before or after the sealing is completed. Any light you can shed will be appreciated. If ... is correct in his anticipation of the rapture on Oct. 2, 1997 we are incredibly short of time to complete our tasks, and I won't get everything I'd intended done.
I think the 144,000 are sealed at the end of the 2300 days, just before the Wrath of God is poured out. Without ceremony, the sealing will be quick.
In his 9th chapter, Ezekiel had a vision of the slaying in Jerusalem. It says, "Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand. And, behold, six men came...every man with a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side....And he (the LORD) called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side; And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a MARK upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye AFTER HIM through the city, and smite...Slay utterly...but come not near any man upon whom is the MARK; and begin at my sanctuary." The marking came just ahead of the slaying.
In Revelation 6: 17; 7:1-4, we hear, "the great DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand? AND after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the SEAL of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, Neither the sea, nor the tree, TILL WE HAVE SEALED the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel"....Then verses 9 and 14 say, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes...These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
The Pre-Trib Rapture must come quite some time before the sealing of the 144,000. The Pre-Wrath Rapture comes immediately after the 144,000 are sealed.
My heartfelt thanks to all who like my Web Site. God's wonderful blessings on you all. May we meet at the assembly in Heaven right after the Rapture.
(Mrs.) Marilyn J. Agee
Pro and Con 20
Contact me for more information. My e-mail address is: email@example.com
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