Pro and Con 1958
"Saturn starts 2017 in the nonzodiacal constellation of Ophiuchus, the serpent holder, and then crosses over into Sagittarius, the archer, on Feb. 23. Retrograde motion causes the ringed planet to cross back into Ophiuchus on May 18, where Saturn will remain until it crosses back into Sagittarius on Nov. 18. See it mornings from Jan. 1 to June 14 and evenings from June 15 to Dec. 4.
"Brightest in 2017: June 12 to June 17. Saturn is at opposition to the sun on June 15."
Rev_2:28 says, "And I will give him the morning star."
Rev_22:16 says, "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
INCOMING EMAIL, Re: Could there be 3 Raptures
1.) The preparation day is the 14th of Nisan (www.hebcal.com). Biblically it
refers to the Feast of Passover (Lev 23:5) followed by the Feast of
unleavened bread, which begins in the evening (15th of Nisan), a Sabbath,
when the Seder (Passover meal) is celebrated. Jesus and the disciples took
it an evening before, when the 14th of Nisan began. The Jews do not call the
feast days according to the bible Feast of Passover and Feast of unleavened
bread, but the season (8 days) Passover. They can also refer unleavened
bread already to the preparation day, when they search the house for Chamutz
and burn it in the morning,
2.) The Palm Sunday is tradition of the Roman Catholic Church and the bible
does not say it was a Sunday. Their traditions are pagan origin, not helpful
dividing the word of truth.
3.) At that time the High Priest was responsible for setting the time of
Passover, he did it with the help of two men from the Sanhedrin. This has
nothing to do with the annual Sabbath (15th of Nisan) or the preparation day
(14th of Nisan), which is not a Sabbath and the Sanhedrin can gather, which
they did. The preparation day 2017 is Monday the 10th of April and the
Sabbath 15th of Nisan the 11th of April and the Resurrection Day is Thursday
the 13th of April.
4.) When the bible speaks of day and night it means a full day (John 11:9
"are there not 12 hours in the day?") and a full night. Gen evening and
morning (night and day)=24 hours. Also after 3 days are after 3 full days
and not less (Mat 27:63: Mar 8:31).
5.) Luke 24:21 A translation from Greek could read ...and beside all this,
to day the third day has passed (where they expected Israels redemption),
after these things were done (Crucifixion of Christ). Sunday was already the
fourth day, when they went home.
6.) The foolish virgins cannot be called saints, because they missed the
Rapture and when they wanted to go in, the door was shut (Luke 13:25).
7.) The Day of Christ and the Day of the Lord are the same. Jesus Christ is
Lord! When He comes back it is His day and called in the bible Day of the
Lord. It refers to His second coming.
8.) Rev 2:18-22 does not say the wise virgins are kept from the Great
tribulation, but they can be sure, to be protected.
9.) 2. Th 2:3 the departure (Greek apostasia) is a falling away from Christ
as the same word in Acts 21:21, which is translated "forsake Moses". The
meaning is a rebellion or falling away, also a departure is here to depart
from Christ (Luke 13:27). I prefer to interpret the bible with the word of
God and avoid twisting words of men.
In our discussions, keep in mind that the First-Trump Rapture is on a feast
Heb 12:22 (RSV) says, "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of
the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal
The ESV says, "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living
God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering".
The KCSB says, "Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the
living God (the heavenly Jerusalem), to myriads of angels in festive
> > 1.) The preparation day is the 14th of Nisan
To me, preparation day is the 13th of Nisan. The 14th is Passover, the feast
day that starts at 6 PM on NIsan 13.
We need to keep in mind that for each Hebrew date, 12 hours of night precede
12 hours of day. If the Israelites in Egypt had not had blood on their
doorposts at midnight on the 14th, their firstborn would have died.
Lev 23:5,6 says, "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even (i.e., 6
PM on Nisan 13) is the LORD'S passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the
same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye
must eat unleavened bread".
> > the Seder (Passover meal) is celebrated. Jesus and the disciples took it
> > an evening before, when the 14th of Nisan began.
Jesus ate the Last Supper in the night portion of Nisan 13. He was crucified
in the following day portion of Nisan 13. He died as they started to kill
the Passover lambs at the Temple "between the evenings" at 3 PM on Nisan 13.
The lambs had to be roasted and eaten before midnight on Nisan 14 when they
came out of Egypt or their firstborn would have died.
> > The Jews do not call the feast days according to the bible Feast of
> > Passover and Feast of unleavened bread
That is true. If the Israelites in Egypt would have kept Passover like the
Jews do today, their firstborn would have died at midnight.
> > They can also refer unleavened bread already to the preparation day,
> > when they search the house for Chamutz and burn it in the morning
True. Nisan 13 was when they got rid of all Chamutz (leaven). The
crucifixion was appropriate that day.
I Cor 5:7 says, "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new
lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for
> > The Palm Sunday is tradition of the Roman Catholic Church and the bible
> > does not say it was a Sunday.
We have to go by Scripture. The word Sunday is not in the KJV Bible. What we
call Sunday followed the Saturday sabbath, and was called the first day of
Mat_28:1 is clear. It says, "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn
toward the first day of the week (i.e., Sunday), came Mary Magdalene and the
other Mary to see the sepulchre."
> > At that time the High Priest was responsible for setting the time of
> > Passover, he did it with the help of two men from the Sanhedrin. This
> > has nothing to do with the annual Sabbath (15th of Nisan) or the
> > preparation day (14th of Nisan), which is not a Sabbath and the
> > Sanhedrin can gather, which they did.
Nisan 13 was preparation day. The Sanhedrin could meet.
Joh_19:14 says, "And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!"
Joh_19:31 says, "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that
the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that
sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be
broken, and that they might be taken away."
Joh_19:42 says, "There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews'
preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand."
Nisan 14 was Passover. The Sanhedrin could not meet on feast days or the
Sabbath. Passover was both a feast day and an annual Sabbath.
"They could meet on any day except the Sabbath and holy days, and they met
from the time of the offering of the daily morning sacrifice until that of
the evening sacrifice."
The morning sacrifice started at 9 AM and the evening sacrifice started at 3
PM. Jesus died as the priests started killing the Passover lambs at 3 PM on
> > The preparation day 2017 is Monday the 10th of April and the Sabbath
> > 15th of Nisan the 11th of April and the Resurrection Day is Thursday the
> > 13th of April.
13th of Nisan, 5777 (Preparation Day, Crucifixion) = Sun, 9 April 2017
14th of Nisan, 5777 (Passover) = Mon, 10 April 2017
15th of Nisan, 5777 (Unleavened Bread) = Tue, 11 April 2017
16th of Nisan, 5777 (Firstfruits, Resurrection) = Wed, 12 April 2017
> > Also after 3 days are after 3 full days and not less (Mat 27:63: Mar
> > 8:31).
"...by Jewish reckoning any part of a day is counted as a day."
"...any part of a day was counted as a whole day."
"In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day"
"Rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah, tenth in the descent from Ezra was very
specific: 'A day and a night are an Onah ['a portion of time'] and the
portion of an Onah is as the whole of it' [J.Talmud, Shabbath 9.3 and
b.Talmud, Pesahim 4a]"
> > The Day of Christ and the Day of the Lord are the same. Jesus Christ is
> > Lord! When He comes back it is His day and called in the bible Day of
> > the Lord. It refers to His second coming.
To me, the Day of Christ and the Day of the Lord are not the same.
DAY OF CHRIST: FIRST RAPTURE, NO DARKNESS, THE MOON IS NOT TURNED INTO BLOOD
Php_1:6 says, "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun
a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".
Php_1:10 says, "That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may
be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ".
Php_2:16 says, "Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the
day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain."
1Co_5:5 says, "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the
flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
2Co_1:14 says, "As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your
rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus."
DAY OF THE LORD, SUN DARK, MOON TURNED INTO BLOOD, EARTH BURNED UP, ELIJAH
MUST COME FIRST
Act_2:20 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into
blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come".
2Pe_3:10 says, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;
in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the
elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are
therein shall be burned up."
Mal_4:5 says, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming
of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (ELIJAH COMES AT THE FIRST-TRUMP
Isa_13:6 says, "Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come
as a destruction from the Almighty."
Isa_13:9 says, "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath
and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners
thereof out of it."
> > Rev 2:18-22 does not say the wise virgins are kept from the Great
> > tribulation, but they can be sure, to be protected.
To me, the wise virgins are raptured Mid-Trib and the foolish virgins are
> > 2. Th 2:3 the departure (Greek apostasia) is a falling away from Christ
> > as the same word in Acts 21:21, which is translated "forsake Moses". The
> > meaning is a rebellion or falling away, also a departure is here to
> > depart from Christ (Luke 13:27).
I believe the departure, the First-Trump Rapture, will come when Moses and
Elijah come back before the False Prophet is revealed Mid-Trib.
Rev 11:1-3 says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the
angel stood, saying, Rise (i.e., in the Mid-Trib Rapture), and measure the
temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the
court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is
given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty
and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses (i.e., Moses
and Elijah), and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore
days (i.e., during the Great Tribulation), clothed in sackcloth."
THE TRANSFIGURATION DEPICTS THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE, WHEN MOSES AND ELIJAH
COME BACK MID-TRIB
Mat 17:1-7 says, "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his
brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was
transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment
was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and
Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord,
it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three
tabernacles; one for thee, and one for MOSES, and one for ELIAS. 5 While he
yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out
of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased;
hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face,
and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, ARISE,
and be not afraid."
JOHN'S ACCOUNT OF THE RAPTURE "IN TRIBULATION"
Rev 1:9-18 says, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion IN
TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the
isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of
Jesus Christ. 10 I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day
(i.e., the day of the Lord Jesus Christ), and heard behind me a great voice,
as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:
and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches
which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and
unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw
seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks
one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and
girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were
white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15
And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his
voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven
stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance
was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at
his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear
not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead;
and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of
TO ME, THERE ARE TWO RAPTURES, MID-TRIB AND POST-TRIB
After the Mid-Trib Rapture, all the saints sing the new song.
Rev 5:9 says, "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the
book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed
us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and
After the last Rapture, only the 144,000 can sing the new song.
Rev 14:1-3 says, "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and
with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name
written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice
of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice
of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song
before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man
could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which
were redeemed from the earth."
At the Post-Trib Rapture, "a great multitude, which no man could number"
"came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes".
Rev 7:9 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man
could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood
before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms
in their hands".
Rev 7:14,15 says, "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to
me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed
their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are
they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple:
and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."
FIRST OF THREE RAPTURES, RESURRECTION DAY, 30 AD
Jesus took the OT saints to Heaven on Resurrection Day.
Luk 23:42,43 says, "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou
comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto
thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Eph 4:8-10 says, "When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and
gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also
descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is
the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all
SECOND RAPTURE, FOR WISE-VIRGINS, MAYBE PENTECOST, SUNDAY, JUNE 4, 2017
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep
thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to
try them that dwell upon the earth."
1Th 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of the archangel (i.e., MICHAEL, WHO COMES MID-TRIB,
Rev. 12), and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise
first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together
with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever
be with the Lord."
1Th 5:1-9 says, "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need
that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the
Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace
and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a
woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in
darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the
children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor
of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch
and be sober. 7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be
drunken are drunken in the night. 8 But let us, who are of the day, be
sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the
hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath".
Mat 25:1-10 says, "Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten
virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2
And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish
took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in
their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all
slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the
bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose,
and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of
your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not
so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that
sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom
came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the
door was shut."
THIRD RAPTURE, INCLUDING FOOLISH VIRGINS
Mat 13:30 says, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time
of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares,
and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
Mat 13:43 says, "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the
kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at
the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on
incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this
corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put
on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory."
Rev 6:12-17 says, "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo,
there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair,
and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the
earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a
mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled
together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the
chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man,
hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;16 And said to
the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that
sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the GREAT DAY
OF HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand? "
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could
number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before
the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in
Rev 7:14 These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have
washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
Rev 14:14-16 says, "And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the
cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown,
and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the
temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy
sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of
the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on
the earth; and the earth was reaped." Agape
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