Pro and Con 197, Uploaded 10-16-98, PM

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ICEJ NEWS SERVICE FROM JERUSALEM
Thousands of Israelis were evacuated from their homes and thousands of dunams of woodland destroyed in a spate of fires believed deliberately set in various parts of Israel over the past week. Losses of property worth millions of dollars was estimated.

Israeli police have arrested at least 10 suspects, all Arabs, in connection with the suspected arson incidents. Five Arab youths confessed to setting some of the fires, saying it was in revenge for police aggression against Arab demonstrators during a recent land dispute.

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I thank you again for all the help you have given me in my time of need, but I do have a couple questions. They both root from your e-mail. First, i would like to know what reply you sent Christopher in Sweden that made such a drastic change in him. I also would like your opinion on something. In your e-mail, you referenced Matthew 24:1-35. In verse 34, it says "I tell you the truth, this generation will...." etcetera. But, my bible is a version that says the word translated as Generation can also be translated to mean "race". What do you think about the change in meanings if race were what was meant? Daniel Thomas

My reply

I will copy both Christopher's emails and my replies for you at the end of this so you will have them all together in order. (Omitted for they are on Pro and Con 76.)

As for "this generation" meaning race, take a look at Mt. 23:36. Jesus was talking to the Pharisees, telling them that all the things he went over at that time were to happen to them. He said, "Verily (means Amen, so be it, i.e., it is important) I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." Those things did happen to that particular generation 40 years later, in 70 AD.

I Cor. 10:11 says, "Now all these things happened unto them (Israel)for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, UPON WHOM THE ENDS OF THE WORLD (ages) ARE COME." It is very likely that what happened to that generation within 40 years will foreshadow what is going to happen to "this generation" at the end of this age within 40 years. Many prophecies have a double application.

Also, Israel's recorded history shows that they played out little skits that help us understand prophecy. You have to know what the prophecies are before you recognize the tie-ins. That is why it is best not to start reading the Bible from the beginning the first time through. That way you have to wade through history without knowing the prophecies first. That is the hard way. I know, I tried it four times and stopped. Only when I started with the New Testament could I really get into studying the Bible.

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Rev. ----- ------- wrote: Re: DREAMED DOUBLE RAPTURE

DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER ! Truly I know no more or less.

Oct. 15,1998  awoke with these words God spoke to me in a dream, after my  son and I prayed for dream about my  promised partner in ministry.

This isn't about Nikomia but about the rapture.

God spoke these words

"First one rapture
then another for those that I love"


Is this a demon or Alien rapture? is this a double rapture? one for those that who believe Pre trib? and those who believe they have to go through the tribulation or part of it?

which I have no knowledge of. I am held accountable what to tell the congregation. So please help me.

I know the voice of God at times I hear HIS voice while I am sleeping, always when he speaks it comes to pass. I have gifts of a prophet also.

My reply

> God spoke these words
>
> First one rapture
> then another for those that I love"
>
> Is this a demon or Alien rapture?
> is this a double rapture?  one for those that who
> believe Pre trib?  and those who believe they have to
> go through the tribulation or part of it?

I do believe that there are two Raptures, the first (Pre-Trib) for the Bride of Christ, the second (Pre-Wrath) for the remainder of the Body of Christ, including the Tribulation saints. Neither has anything to do with a demon or Alien rapture. They have something to do with who is ready and who is not at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture.

The Pre-Trib Rature is in the "Come up hither" of Rev. 4:1. It is for the wise Philadelphian virgins before whom the "open door" (3:8) is set. The Lord does not have any words of condemnation for them. The foolish lukewarm Laodicean virgins are spewed out of his mouth for chastisement (3:16,19). However, notice that in verse 19, he loves them. He wants them to be zealous and repent. They are believers, for they have to be in Christ to be spewed out of his mouth. The foolish virgins also are believers, for they have some oil of the Holy Spirit, just not enough.

"The Lord of that SERVANT will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (cut him off), and will appoint him his PORTION (the Tribulation) with the unbelievers" (Lu. 13:46).

This is why Christ is "he which hath the sharp sword with two edges" to the church of Pergamos (2:12).

All the Tribulation saints are in heaven in Rev. 7:14. They have washed their robes in the blood of Christ, i.e., confessed their sins after Salvation to bring them under the blood of Christ also. They are taken up between the opening of the sixth (6:12) and seventh seals (Rev. 8). It is on the Day of God's Wrath (6:17), but before the two pieces of the asteroid impact Earth as the seven trumpet judgments hit Earth (8:8,10) at noon (Psa.91:6; Zeph. 2:4,5; Job 20:23).

The first Rapture is as the days of Noah. Marriage is mentioned (Mt. 24:38). All the people in the Ark were married. Even the animals went in two by two. No fire fell the day they entered the Ark. Rain (symbol of the Holy Spirit) came.

The second Rapture is as the day of Lot. No marriage is mentioned in the account. Even Lot's wife didn't make it. Fire fell THAT SAME DAY (Lu. 17:29), just as it will on the Day of God's Wrath (Rev. 8:8,10).

The first Rapture is the first trump of God (I Thess. 4:16). The second Rapture is the "last trump" (I Cor. 15:52), when the assembly in Heaven is completed. All members of the Body of Christ are there by then.

These are the trumps of God, not the seven trumpet judgments that are sounded by angels. These are like the two silver trumpets for the "calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps (plural)" of Nu. 10:2.

I downloaded this from the Internet. Jewish sages say that:
> As to the trumps the Feasts are called by the names
> Pentecost= First trump
> RoshHaShanah=LAst trump
> Atonement= Great trump

This fits the First Rapture on Pentecost, the second on the Feast of Trumpets and God's acceptance of the remnant of Israel on the following Day of Atonement, doesn't it.

In conclusion, the first Rapture is in Rev. 4:1, the second is seen in Rev. 7:14. Between them is Rev. 6, which starts with the Beast coming as a prince of peace at the beginning of the Tribulation and ends with "the great day of his wrath is come."

That Day of God's Wrath starts at 6:00 P.M. and both the "great mountain burning with fire" (Rev. 8:8) and the "great star (aster)" (8:10) fall at noon that day (Zeph. 2:4). Therefore, the Rapture of the Tribulation Saints probably takes place between 6:00 P.M. and noon on the day of wrath. They are caught up between the breaking of the sixth seal of Rev. 6:12 and the breaking of the seventh seal in Rev. 8:1.

I think the first Rapture is typified by the Gentile Enoch and the days of Noah, the second by the Hebrew Elijah and the days of Lot, when fire fell that same day.

In Lu. 21:36, we are to "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

"He is so near, He is at the door" (Mt. 24:33, Berkeley Version). The KJV has "doors." There are two Rapture doors that open in Heaven.

"Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching" (Lu. 12:37).

"Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him" (Heb. 10:35-38). In His love

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I HOPE YOU WILL RECEIVE THE INFOR. PRESENTED BELOW. IN ANY EVENT , PLEASE "HEAR IT ..BEFORE YOU ANSWER ..."

FROM CAPS......The following information is being offerred after much study and deliberation.Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good.In looking back on the last 5 months I believe that we mis-judged the timing indicators in Song of Solomon ch.2. After last Pentecost much research was done as to whether the indicators could apply to a Fall season. I believe the fallacy with that is real Basic. That is , if a "time indicator" is given, then almost by definition the timing has to be close to the Appearance of the "indicator". For example, in Song of Sol. ch 2 it says "winter is past". That is true in the late summer and also in the Fall. However, for it to be a valid time indicator it should be considered WHEN it is FIRST true. It is first true right after Winter. What is presented below is based on the above premise. Keep your Bible and mind open.

S.o.S ch 2 has 7 timing indicators. The first one is ..."Winter is past". What does this mean? In my studies I have concluded that the scriptures mention only TWO seasons: Summer and Winter. The Heb. word for "summer" is Strong #7019. It has reference to the "harvest, whether the product (grain or fruit) or the season." It is from Strong # 6972 which means "to clip off". I conclude from this that the word "summer" indicates the season of the harvest of grain and fruits --especially since the base word means to "clip off".

The Heb. word for "winter" is Strong #2779 which means "the crop gathered; by implication the autumn and winter season (together). It is from Strong #2778 "to pull off."I conclude that this word indicates the season when the crop HAS been gathered--"pulled off." In Gen. 8:22 "summer"is mentioned as well as "winter." Also, "seedtime"--which would be the same as "winter."....and "harvest" which would be the same as "summer". These are all mentioned in Pairs. "Cold" is "winter"...."heat" is "summer". Considering the "law of first mention" this then becomes the original and basic Biblical definitions for "summer" and "winter." Some have said that since the KJV mentions the word "season"(in Lev. 23) that this therefore justifies saying the scripture uses 4 seasons. This is not correct. The word is only saying that the feasts are to be proclaimed in their "appointed" times. These appointed times are based on the month of the Jewish year. Why is this important? Read on.

In S.o.S. ch. 2:11 it says "for lo, winter is past, the rain is over and gone... Most Bible dictionaries rightly indicate that this is saying the SAME thing..i.e. when winter is over, then the rain is over as well. This first pair of timing indicators becomes critical..as to WHEN winter is over and "the rain is over and gone." Please note the following infor. from 5 Bible Dictionaries(not just one).Why do I say that? Because even Bible dictionaries can be wrong. In a "multitude of counsel there is wisdom." The NEW UNGERS BIBLE DICT. says on pg.1061 that there are "2 seasons...rainy and dry...Toward the END of OCTOBER heavy rains begin to fall. It opens the agriculture year. Till the end of Nov. the average rainfall is not large but it increases through Dec.,Jan., and Feb......begins to ABATE IN MARCH and is practically OVER BY THE MIDDLE OF APRIL !"

The NEW BIBLE DICT. says on pg. 1000 that the " onset of effective rains usually begins in mid or late Oct." For you students of the Bible you already know that part of the ceremony re the FEAST OF TABERNACLES involved the "water pouring". The nation of Israel was asking God to pour out the "former rains". We are beginning to see that to simplistically say that the former rains always start on TISHRI 1 is simply not correct. The FOT being the feast of " the final ingathering" as well as the fact that the Jews prayed at this feast for the critical former rains to come proves otherwise.

The WYCLIFFE BIBLE DICT. says(ON PG. 1271) that "in general ..the rains in Israel fell from MID OCTOBER TO MID APRIL...and that the HEAVIEST rains fell in JAN. AND FEB."

The HOLMAN BIBLE DICT. on pg. 1163 says tnat the EARLY rains fell in OCT. AND NOV. ..and that the LATER rains fell in FEB. AND MARCH." The same article indicates that "rarely" did rain fall BEFORE OR AFTER these two periods!

The NELSON'S ENCYL. OF BIBLE FACTS on pg. 183 mentions that .."the latter rains of FEB. AND MARCH were essential .." to the crops,etc.Also in the same article the rainfall chart shows HEAVY rain in the month of Jan.--at around 4 inches and in April less than 1 inch!

SMITH'S BIBLE DICT. on pg. 552,553 says.." ...rain continues to fall(during the winter) and more or less during the month of MARCH; IT IS VERY RARE IN APRIL"

The NEW BIBLE DICT.on pg. 1010 says " the rainfall in Palestine is SO CLOSELY IDENTICAL WITH THE COOL SEASON that the Arab word "sita" refers to both WINTER and RAIN !! THIS IS THE SAME SIGNIFICATION IN S.O..S WHER IT SAYS 'WINTER IS PAST, THE RAIN IS OVER AND GONE."

Now consider this. The BARLEY HARVEST began in Israel on Nisan 16--the Feast of Firstfruits. I read where it was even a civil ordinance--i.e. a law--for it to start then. THINK ! Would God ordain that the start of the Harvest be during the RAINY SEASON. Did not God write in PROVERBS 26:1 RSV "LIKE SNOW IN SUMMER OR RAIN IN HARVEST, so honor is NOT fitting for a fool." This should be CLEAR to all who are objective with the facts. If there is any doubt just look at DEUT. 16:9 where it is talking about how to count Pentecost."You shall count 7 weeks;BEGIN to count...FROM THE TIME YOU FIRST PUT THE SICKLE TO THE STANDING GRAIN." That"time" was the Feast of Firstfruits which was on NISAN 16. This proves that in Israel the RAINS were over and gone by the middle of the month of Nisan. The above Bible Dict. also support this. And, above all the above referenced scriptures PROVE it. Please note that the month of APRIL is almost always the same as the month of Nisan. Winter is therefore "over" at this time. The "rains" are also for all practical purposes over and gone. What FEAST is kept on Nisan 16 ? FIRSTFRUITS. Some say it is always on Nisan 16 or 17. Others say it is always the first Sunday after Nisan 14( the day of the crucifixion). I believe this to be the case, i.e. on the first Sunday after Nisan 14.It is therefore the "LORD'S DAY."

Also ,concerning the time when the TURTLEDOVES come to Israel , it is hard to say that FOR SURE they are in Israel from APRIL TO OCT. I have read many books on this. Some say the TD passes through Israel in APRIL en route to EUROPE for the summer. However, note this. ALL THE BOOKS INDICATE THAT THE "COMING" TO ISRAEL IS ALWAYS IN APRIL !!!!! SOME AUTHORS HAVE CALLED IT "TURTLEDOVE MONTH" IN ISRAEL !!I IN APRIL !! Therefore, the "sign" of the turtledove would be for sure the month of APRIL---I.E.NISAN !!! I will have MUCH MORE on this subject in the future. CAPS.P.S. JEREMIAH 8:7 SAYS THAT "THE TURTLEDOVE OBSERVES THE TIME OF HIS COMING." Isn't it profound that it says "the TIME of his COMING;" WE CAN SAY FOR SURE THAT THE TURTLEDOVE "COMES" TO ISRAEL IN APRIL / NISAN.!!!!

My reply

What are you saying, that you think the Rapture will be Sunday, Nisan 18, 5759 (our April 4, 1999)? We have to take into consideration the ripening grapes too. They begin to ripen at the end of May or early June. Even Ascension Day is in Iyar (Thur., May 13, 1999). Jesus did take the OT saints to Heaven on the Feast of Firstfruits, but he did not announce it plainly. It is all but hidden. It is not emphasized. Why?

At his ascension, the CLOUDS received him out of sight. He will COME in like manner. At the Rapture, we "which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air" (I Thess. 4:17). A case could be made for Ascension Day. Why did HE wait 40 days after the Feast of Firstfruits before he ascended?

However, the Spirit of Christ CAME TO BELIEVERS on Pentecost. This is emphasized--big time. There was a "SOUND FROM HEAVEN," "cloven tongues like as of fire," "and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues" (Acts 2:2,3). I think Pentecost makes the most sense. Jesus is coming to take those who are filled with the Holy Ghost to Heaven. It is also when the grapes begin to ripen.

Re: spring and fall seasons. Scripture does include seedtime and harvest along with summer and winter. Also, the meaning of the words in both Greek and Hebrew for the former and latter rains mean autumnal or spring rain. In James 5:7, "the early and latter rain" is "proimon," which means AUTUMNAL showering. and "opsimon," which means SPRING showering." In Jer. 5:24, Jeremiah said, "Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in HIS season." The Hebrew word used for the former rain is "yowreh," which means AUTUMNAL sprinkling rain. "Malqowsh" is the word for the latter rain. It means gathered SPRING rain. Both rains are to come in "his season."

This was promised in De. 11:14: "I will give you the rain of your land in HIS DUE SEASON, the first rain and the latter rain."

Hosea 6:3 says that "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, AS THE LATTER AND FORMER RAIN UNTO THE EARTH."

I think Christ will return on the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year. He will take office at the same time as all the other Israelite kings, Nisan 1. According to Ezek. 29:17,21, Christ is to return on Nisan 1, "first month, in the first day of the month." Since he comes on the first of the month at the Second Advent, I think he came on the first of the month of Tishri at the First Advent.

> "You shall count 7 weeks; BEGIN to count...FROM THE TIME YOU FIRST
> PUT THE SICKLE TO THE STANDING GRAIN." That"time" was the Feast of
> Firstfruits which was on NISAN 16. This proves that in Israel the RAINS were
> over and gone by the middle of the month of Nisan.

While waiting for Ed to get his echocardiogram today, I was reading the New Scofield Reference Bible. Lev. 2:14 says of the offering of first fruits, "thou shalt offer for the /meal/ offering of thy first fruits green ears of /grain/ dried by the fire, even /grain/ beaten out of full ears." Why did they need to be DRIED by the fire? Were they wet?

> We are beginning to see that to simplistically say that the
> former rains always start on TISHRI 1 is simply not correct.

I disagree. Don't you think that Jesus was born on the Feast of Trumpets? Those trumpets would herald the arrival of the King, just as they will herald his coronation on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the Millennium. The Sign of the Son of Man will appear that day. People will look up and see him seated on his throne. I think he appeared that same day, Tishri 1, at the First Advent also.

This world began on Tishri 1. Don't you think the Millennium will begin on Tishri 1? The Bible is consistent.

> The HOLMAN BIBLE DICT. on pg. 1163 says tnat the EARLY rains fell in OCT.
> AND NOV. ..and that the LATER rains fell in FEB. AND MARCH." The same
> article indicates that "rarely" did rain fall BEFORE OR AFTER these two
> periods!

It rained in Israel Sept. 13, 1998. I recorded it on my Web site when I heard of it. Strange how that Sept. 13 date keeps repeating. The Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993. Add the seven good years and the seven bad years and you come to Sept. 13, 2007, That is Tishri 1, 5768, the very day I think is Coronation Day and the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

> the Feast of Firstfruits. I read where it was even a civil ordinance--i.e.
> a law--for it to start then. THINK ! Would God ordain that the start of
> the Harvest be during the RAINY SEASON.

Laying human reasoning aside and going by the scriptures, it seems to me that he did, and that he planned six of the seven feasts to fall in the rainy season--all but Pentecost. I can think of one good reason that he would do that too. Rain represents the Spirit of God. Jesus will splash down as "the great rain of his (God's) strength" (Job 37:6).

> Did not God write in PROVERBS 26:1 RSV "LIKE SNOW
> IN SUMMER OR RAIN IN HARVEST, so honor is NOT fitting for a fool."

Sure. He also wrote in Prov. 24:13 (KJV), "As the cold of snow in the time of harvest, so is a faithful messenger to them that send him: for he refresheth the soul of his masters."

The grain that is first harvested on the Feast of Firstfruits is barley. The Rapture of the Church is the wheat harvest, which starts at Pentecost. It is NOT a time of "rain in harvest." A time of rain is "not fitting." Since I think the rainy season is from Tishri 1 to Nisan 30, I am expecting the Rapture next Pentecost.

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Re: Wisconsin Power Failures (Bonnie Rieder , Wed 5:40 AM)
The news article is true. My son came home last night and said he had heard on the radio that the Wisconsin National Guard was being called out for 12/31/99 to keep peace. He said he began talking to his coworkers about the Y2K problem. The scary thing is that not one of them even knew what it was or what may be coming. It is becoming clear to me that if such a catastrophe hits, many people will be unprepared and desperate. Marilyn, I REALLY hope you are correct about the new Rapture date. But if it doesn't happen, those of us that live in the northern climates, its heads up time. When we are told to watch and be ready, it is really time to take heed. Of course, we are to watch for the Lord, but if He doesn't take us before this hits, we must also be ready for whatever comes. Get some extra groceries in your home, contact friends and family to determine where you will get your water and heat. Don't wait--start now to gather a little extra. Also, keep some Gospel tracts with your food. If the Rapture does happen, those left behind can have the food and the work of the Lord can continue.

I also requested from our electricity provider their brochure on the Y2K problem. Most of it confirms my worst fears. Although they intend on being compliant by July, 1999, their suppliers and partners may not be ready. The brochure states that because they are part of "The Grid", the chances of losing power are very possible. They suggested getting your financial matters in order (i.e. paper copies of EVERYTHING.) Their suggestion was if you buy a generator, be sure it is Y2K compliant and there is a ready supply of fuel. A note to remember: if the fuel comes from a pump at a local gas station, without power the pump won't work.

If the Rapture has happened and the Restrainer has been removed, I can't even imagine what life on this earth will be like (and that's only the beginning!!) I pray I'm looking down from heaven along side of you!! God bless

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Hi! (From Finland)
Found very interesting things at watchman site and from their links (Triumph ministries) the following about Pentecost. At watcher site there was a mention that Josephus knew that the crerubim were planets. And there is much more about stars, eclipses and feasts.

Triumph site: http://triumph.simplenet.com/p0002710.htm

What a treasure internet is. Withouth it ordinary people would have no chance to find new pieces in the big jigsaw puzzle that is going to give us a more profound knowledge of past and future secrets.

My reply

Thanks for your information. Nice to know Josephus knew the cherubim were planets. I would like to read his words for myself. (Does anyone know where Greg Killian has the quote on his site? His URL: http://members.aol.com/gkilli/home/index.html)

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 10-16-98