Pro and Con 2

Incoming E-Mail, Subject: Re: Rapture 1998, on Pentecost

I've started taking a look at your page....The Rapture on Pentecost...sure, could be. Nobody knows. The Rapture is an unsceduled event and could happen at anytime after Israel becomes a nation and gets control of Jerusalem. On the other hand the second coming is a sceduled day, 7 years after the confirming of a covenant that allows the daily sacrifice. You could plan on that one. Thats why the confirmation starts the Trib. and why the church would not be here. We can not set a date for the rapture. no one knows when that will be. Even Jesus does not know until the Father sends Him. I only see one Rapture. Its important to see that God works through the Church during the gap between the 69 and the 70th week of Daniel. This is the age of the Gentiles. After the Rapture, There will still be a multitude of people who become saved but Gods dealings are through Israel. This is the Tribulation, the time of Jacobs sorrows, Daniels 70th week. Those who become believers during the tribulation will not be raptured but will be protected by fleeing to the place that Jesus has prepared to protect them. During the Millenial Kingdom, These saved and still mortal( non-ressurected) people will repopulate the Earth. If all the believers were resurrected and made imortal and all the Evil people are thrown into the lake of fire, who then will repopulate the Earth and be involved with the rebellion at the end of the Millennium and the final Judgment? I will spend more time reviewing your site. I am glad that the word is getting out. The time is short. I think we all know and agree on that. you have done alot of work. His blessings for you.

My Reply

It seems to me that the date of the Second Coming will not be exactly "7 years after the confirming of a covenant that allows the daily sacrifice" because the Tribulation is shortened (Matt. 24:22). However it is close to that. Anyway, we can know the Jewish month and day of the month of the Second Advent from Ezekiel 29:17,21. It says, "in the first month, in the first day of the month...In that day will I cause the horn (king, Psa. 132:17) of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD." This is Nisan 1, according to Ezek. 45:21, where the Passover is said to be on the 14th day of the first month.

Just a few verses before this, Ezek. 45:18 is interesting. It says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary." Won't Christ cleanse the sanctuary the day he arrives on Earth?

If you can't see but one Rapture, don't worry about it. The second one is not emphasized as much as the first. Just be sure you are wearing the white wedding garment and go in the first one and you will be fine. It is the Laodiceans who get left behind because they are not wearing the white linen that need to know that they will sit with Christ in his throne" (Rev. 3:21). Christ will not lose a single one in the end. Those going in Rapture 1 are to be snatched up when the times are as the days of Noah. Those going in Rapture 2 are to be taken when the times are as the days of Lot. The first preceded a 7-day wait. The second was the same day that fire fell. They cannot easily refer to the same future day.

Even if every believer goes to Heaven in Rapure 2, God won't leave himself without a witness on Earth. All Israel will be reborn that day. Also, some of the people in Israel during the Millennium will be the saved of Old Testament times. Even king David will be resurrected and will sit on his throne again. Jer. 30:9 says, "But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." Daniel will stand in his lot in Israel at the end of the 1335 days of Daniel 12:12,13.

There will be other people on Earth that will also believe at that time. The reason? God's prophecies all come true. In that day, the vision and prophecy will be fulfilled (Dan. 9:24). Because of the seven-months after the catastrophe during which Israel buries the dead to cleanse the land for the Lord's return (see Ezek. 39:12,13), there is time for some to believe and live on into the Millennium. Armageddon does not take place until Christ is back on Earth.

Incoming E-Mail, Subject: Your Webpage

I am much impressed with your webpage. I have studied Bible prophecy for many years and have always wanted to see synopses similar to yours...The internet is proving to be an invaluable tool in getting the last days word out.

I am open to the idea of 2 raptures and to a variety of possible dates for it. I think the people who still are so defensive about date-setting are just as bad as the Laodiceans, in that both groups are not watching. I try to live by our Lord's teaching in Luke 21:36, to watch and pray to be accounted worthy....

How do you see the comet HaleBopp and its "companion" relating to prophecy? One person who has a webpage says it could be the New Jerusalem and when it is closest to earth next March/April, that that is when the rapture will occur. I don't really agree with that because I don't see the New Jerusalem coming with the rapture at the beginning of all the end time events, but at the end. But I'm not sure. What do you think?

My Reply, Subject: New Jerusalem

I am glad you are impressed by my Web Page. I have studied as hard as I could go for over 36 years and keep learning all the time. If you read "Pro and Con," you caught a couple recent things that came together because of something someone said in e-mail.

In case you didn't get that far. One is that Pentecost is when the two witnesses become energized by the Holy Spirit for their 1,260 day ministry during the first half of the Tribulation. That is one of those things I knew, but failed to see the full significance of it. In my mind, I knew that the two witnesses began their ministry when the covenant was signed on the Feast of Weeks. I also knew that the Feast of Weeks was Pentecost and that Pentecost was when the Holy Spirit descended on the church in 30 A.D. However, knowing the puzzle pieces doesn't mean I put them all together to see the full picture. The witnesses will be energized for their ministry just like the disciples were in 30 A.D., on Pentecost.

The other is the fact that Ruth and Boaz were married around the time of Pentecost ("the end of barley harvest and of wheat harvest," Ruth 2:23). It seems that Boaz (the kinsman redeemer) actually chose Ruth (the Gentile bride) at midnight (Ruth 3:8) on Pentecost, just as Christ will choose the Bride of Christ at the Rapture on Pentecost. More clues just keep cropping up. The scriptures are consistant.

Thanks for giving me the idea to e-mail people who send me e-mail when I update my Web site. I have been so busy that the thought had not crossed my mind. I will try to do that when I add files such as "Pro and Con" that I just uploaded.

As for the comet Hale-Bopp, I don't think it is New Jerusalem. As for when that city comes down, let's look at what Scripture says. Rev. 3:11,12 says,

"Behold, I come quickly (at the Rapture)...Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God."

From this, it seems possible that New Jerusalem could come down at the time of the Rapture. However, in the more detailed description given later on, it seems that New Jerusalem comes down near the Earth at a later date. At that time the Bride has already become "the Lamb's wife" (Rev. 21:9). The Marriage of the Lamb takes place in Rev. 19:7.

I think the descent of New Jerusalem is after the catastrophe at the end of the shortened Tribulation, when the heavens and the Earth need renovating again as they did in Adam's day. Rev. 21:1,2 says,

"AND I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven."

At that time, "the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it...And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it" (Rev. 21:24-26).

These things take place some time after the Rapture, not at the time it happens. Rev. 4:2 says, "Come up hither (i.e., the Rapture), and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Incoming E-Mail, Subject: Reply To Your E-Mail

thanks for your email. Your thoughts and insight are remarkable. The only concern we should all share is that specific date-setting and season-fixing is not new in this generation. Many of us have done the same and many of us have been disappointed by the Lord when he did not show up. Don't be too disappointed if your dates/seasons failed to bring-in the rapture. Just keep on following the Lord Jesus. Remember always "Only the Father has the hour in his knowledge".

My Reply

Don't worry. Nothing on this Earth or anywhere else could shake my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no room in my life for the slightest flicker of doubt. I KNOW who he is, the Almighty God, the everlasting Father.

He said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning (Lord of the Old Testament) and the ending (Lord of the New Testament), saith the Lord, which is (at the Rapture), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8).

This agrees with Isa. 9:6: "For unto us a child is born (his humanity, inherited from his mother), unto us a son is given (his deity, inherited from his Father): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Just because others have been wrong about dates does not make the next one wrong. Jesus said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mark 13:23). I believe it.

Jesus also said, "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is" (Mark 13:32,33). The word "knoweth" is present tense. On that particular day, no MAN knew. Only the Father in him knew.

We were to watch and pray because we knew not when the time is. What were we to pray for? that we would know when the time is?

Jesus warned the churches, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Rev. 3:3). What will we know if we watch? Won't we know the hour? Now what did Jesus mean when he said, "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man?"

A Comment on my Book I Found on the Internet 1-6-97

The End of the Age, by M.J. Agee (also called Exit 2007)

Here is an intriguing book that presents a very different interpretation of many end-time prophecies than you will find elsewhere. It is a tight, cohesive package that provides an answer to just about every question you can have about the final events of our age - even to the point of setting dates for the Rapture and Second Coming of Christ. Of course, this latter feature means that this book is almost assuredly wrong, but it is interesting nonetheless.

My Reply

I am glad to hear that my book is intriguing and interesting. As for whether I am wrong about dates, time will tell. Seventeen months (less now) from now, we should know. At least, I am trying not to be one to whom Jesus referred when he said, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Rev. 3:3). My eyes are open. I am watching and doing my best to understand Scripture.

When Christ comes as a thief is at Rapture 2, just before Armageddon (Rev. 16:15,16). It is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch" (I Thess. 5:4-6).

I want to be a wise virgin and be taken up in the first Rapture, before the Tribulation, not be a foolish one who has to wait for the Translation of the Tribulation saints.

Incoming E-Mail, Subject: Rapture 1998, on Pentecost

Have you heard of the book, "88 Raesons Why The Rapture Will Happen in 1988."

It didn't happen in '88, nor will it happen in '97! If you saw my web site then you'd know why the rapture does not take place until after the great tribulation.

My Reply: Subject: Days of Noah

Yes, I have the 88 Reasons booklet. It did not make sense to me from the start. I copyrighted my book, "Exit: 2007: The Secret of Secrets Revealed," in 1987 because I knew no special end-time event was going to take place in l988.

I think that what you have said in your e-mail is true, "It didn't happen in '88, nor will it happen in '97!." It just might in l998 though.

There are two Raptures. The one before the Tribulation is for the church saints. The one on the first day of the Millennium is for the Tribulation saints. The first is as the days of Noah, prior to a seven-day wait. The second is as the days of Lot, when fire fell that same day.

Christ comes as a thief on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. That is the day of Rapture two. First Thessalonians 5:2-6 explains: "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night...But ye, brethren (i.e., the church), are not in darkness (that Feast of Trumpets is the day of thick darkness), that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the childen of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch."

We do not belong to the day of darkness. That is for a different group. We must rightly divide the word of truth. We are the wise virgins. They are the foolish ones.

Noah knew the year. Doesn't that show that we can know the year also? Do you know that when Jesus said, "But of that day and hour knoweth (present tense, no one knew on that day) no man" (Mt. 24:36), he did not say that no man knoweth the year? Why did he leave that out?

  THE NO MAN KNOWS CONTROVERSY

Incoming E-Mail, Subject: Re: Rapture 1998, on Pentecost

I will look at your site. However, I disagree with almost all of what you are saying. The following quote from Mark 9:32-33:

32. But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
33. Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time is.(NASB)

The important point here is verse 33. You cannot know when the time is: a day is time, so is a week, month, year, or whatever. You cannot know when the time is (of the rapture, or the return of Jesus). Anyone who says they now, must be wrong or else Jesus is wrong.

My Reply: Subject: Recognizing the Time

I don't mind if you disagree. I once thought we could not know myself. I think you meant Mark 13 instead of Mark 9. It says, "no one knows." That is present tense. No one knew on that particular day. It did not say that no one would ever know. Knowledge is to be increased in the time of the end (Daniel 12:4).

Mark 13:33 in the KJV says, "Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is." What could he have meant here that we were to pray for? so we would know when the time is?

Those who are content to wear blinders can just keep on following along with Revelation 3:3. Jesus said, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."

The only catch here is that he comes as a thief as the Millennium begins at the end of the Tribulation. First Thessalonians 5:2 says, that "the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night." In Revelation 16:15, Jesus says, "Behold, I come as a thief" just before Armageddon.

Thus, Jesus comes as a thief to snatch up the Tribulation saints at Rapture II. At the first Rapture, when he comes for the church, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout" (I Thess. 4:16), not silent as a thief would be.

First Thessalonians 5:2-6 explains: "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night...But ye, brethren (i.e., the church), are not in darkness (that Feast of Trumpets is the day of thick darkness), that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the childen of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch."

According to Rev. 3:3, if we do watch, he will not come on us as a thief, and we shall know what hour he will come upon us.

In Luke 12:56, Jesus says to the Pharisees, "Ye Hypocrites, ye can discern the face of thy sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?" They should have been able to figure out the time from Daniel 9:24-26, but they did not. I am sure that this will repeat in our days. There will be those who can not discern this time either. I just hope you won't be one of them.

Incoming E-Mail

I enjoyed your book as titled "The End Of The Age". From a techinical perspective, I was impressed by the amount of in-depth research you had done. While I agree with you on the great majority of events, timing sequences and symbology, I myself find the Rapture occuring just prior to the seventh seal - some version of what some call the pre-wrath rapture (although I detest labels).I look forward to any other publications you will be authoring.

My Reply

I'm glad you enjoyed my book. No two can agree on everything, can they? The reason so many can see the Rapture at the end of the Tribulation is because there are two Raptures.

At the first one, Jesus comes "with a shout" (I Thess. 4:16). At the second, he comes silently, "as a thief," just before Armageddon (Rev. 16:15). The first one is the "Come up hither" in Rev. 4:1. The second is in Rev. 7:14, "These are they which came out of great tribulation." Dividing the two is Revelation, chapter 6, which starts out with the Beast riding forth on the white horse and ends when "the great day of his wrath is come."

My second book, Heaven Found: A Butter and Honey Star, is now available ($12.00 plus $2.00 S/H, from 8641 Sugar Gum Rd., Riverside, CA 92508; (909) 653-4110). My third book, The Master Key: Revelation's Secrets Revealed, is not yet in print.

I can't believe we did not figure out sooner where Heaven is. Paul told us in 2 Corinthians 12:2 that a man was caught up to the third heaven. Why we didn't pick up on that, I don't know unless God blinded us on purpose. Heaven really is the third heaven. Boy! were we dumb. It is a morning star too. That is why Jesus said of the overcomers, "I will give him the morning star" (Rev. 2:28). They already had Jesus in their hearts so he was not referring to himself as the morning star there. In the last chapter of Revelation, he says that he is the morning star because he resides on the morning star. It is simple after you know where Heaven really is. We can go out and look at it. If the Rapture takes place on Pentecost in 1998, this morning star will be entering Aries, the Ram. That paints a good picture since Jesus is the Lamb of God.

Incoming E-Mail, Subject: Rapture 1998, on Pentecost

...your site. It is very impressive indeed. Regarding it's content - Some I would agree with and some I would disagree with. As everything serves God's purpose, so also your site will serve His purpose. May God bless you in your endeavours to make Christians more aware of the Endtime and the Rapture.

When it comes to the subject of the Rapture, I believe that the Rapture, the Second Coming (FOR the Bride), the Resurrection of Saints for the Rapture,like the Kingdom, these things will not come (or be recognized) with Natural observation (Luke 17:20).

I believe it (Rapture, Coming, etc. will cover a period of time (being caught away) BUT the climax thereoff (change of the body of the 'living Saints' will be in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. During this "period of Time" the Son of Man will Reveal Himself to His Elect (Luke 17:30), the Mysteries will (has) (be)en revealed to her, finishing the Mystery of God (Rev. 10:1-7), giving the Elect Rapturing Faith (1st. Thess. 11-18 - the Lord (Logos)Himself descending from heaven with a SHOUT (A Message going forth to set all things in order for the Resurrection and the Rapture).

As for the date you set, I hope that it will be the time of the Climax of the Rapture (changing of our bodies). We live, expecting it any day, realizing that there is a day and hour appointed wherein 'we shall be changed'. We have "been" Changed; we are "Being" changed and we "Shall" be changed. Praise the Lord!

Keep pressing on; Keep studying and searching

My Reply

Thanks for visiting my Web site and for saying it is very impressive indeed. That makes me feel that all my hard work in learning this HTML stuff is worth while....

I believe that was true in those days. Jesus said "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation." However, he was careful not to say "will not come" for there will come a day when it will come with observation, on Earth as it is in Heaven. As Luke continued in verse 24, he talked of Christ being seen as the lightening, and Isaiah 16:5 says that he will sit upon the throne "in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness."

I used to think that the Rapture would be so secret that people would just disappear and no one would see them go. I was wrong. One day I was reading Psalm 40:1-3 and it hit me that it was talking about the Rapture. It says,

"I WAITED patiently (as the Philadelphians do, Rev. 3:10) for the LORD; and he inclined (leaned down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit (as Jeremiah was taken out of a pit wherein was no water), out of the miry clay (out of these bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established my goings. And he hath put a new song (sung after the Rapture in Rev. 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it (the Rapture), and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."

I should have guessed it. The Lord never leaves himself without a witness, does he.

I wish the Rapture could be right now, but I don't see any scriptures that indicate this date. I just hope it will be on Pentecost in l998. There are no guarantees that I am right, but that is how it looks to me. All I expect is for people to take a good look at the clues and make up their own minds.

What is of paramount importance is for us to confess all our sins and stand before God wearing those white wedding garments so we will be chosen as the Bride of Christ when the Rapture does take place. Many are called, but few are chosen (Mt. 20:16). In Rev. 17:14, we see that those "that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

You give good advice, "Keep pressing on; Keep studying and searching." I can't help but do that. Once the Bible gets hold of you, it won't let go. I don't think there is any end to what we can learn from the scriptures. That is proof to me that God actually wrote it. No man could have packed so much information into such a small book....

Incoming E-Mail, Subject: Wow!

I just went back to your web page....You have a CLASS web page.

My heartfelt thanks to all who like my Web Site. God's wonderful blessings on you all. May we meet at the assembly in Heaven right after the Rapture.

In Christ,
Marilyn
(Mrs.) Marilyn J. Agee


  Pro and Con 3

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© 1996, 1997 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 8-3-97