Pro and Con 204, Uploaded 10-27-98, PM

Incoming Email

MARILYN--YOU COMMENTED ON THE BELOW INFOR. ON P/C 202 BUT DID NOT POST THE ACTUAL INFOR. DID YOU WANT TO ?? FROM CAPS......RE EVENTS THAT HISTORICALLY HAPPENED ON NISAN 17--THE FEAST OF FIRSTFRUITS. In the year of the crucifixion Jesus was killed on Nisan 14. He was raised from the dead on Nisan 17....

My reply

Yes. I think it's a bit strange to have the answer without the incoming email. Sorry. I added it to Pro and Con 202, so it would be with my answer. I can't imagine how I managed to do that. Too late at night, I guess.

Incoming Email

I printed out your eMAIL response to my Josephus article. Then I DIAGRAMED the Menorah as you indicated the lineup of the Planets - earth in the middle [left-to-right: Sun - Mercury- Venus - Earth - Mars -Asteroid Belt - Jupiter - Saturn]. Diagonally from South to East in the Holy of Holies. Then, I "positioned myself" on earth - looking East and Voila! Another one of Marilyn's CRAZY ideas made SENSE. [I'm SURE you are relieved! HA!] I had always "wrestled" with the Cherubim ["im" is plural in Heb - so it's not Cherubims] and the Flaming Sword that guarded the entrance to Eden. Then, you "proposed" [in your book] that they were Planets not some sort of super angel - I was doubtful, but not having a better explanation, I kept silent. NOW, it makes sense! [I'm a slow learner! HA!] When you added Gideon and the "blowing of trumpets," the "breaking of the lamps" and the shout: "the Sword of The Lord" - REALLY all came together. [I think you've GOT IT!] ALSO "lean strongly in favor of Pentecost" [for "Rapture-I"] and am amused by all the discussions over RAIN and SEASONS in Israel....

My reply

The candlestick had seven lamps. According to Josephus, they represented: (1) Sun, (2) Mercury, (3) Venus, (4) EARTH, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter, (7) Saturn. The Asteroid Belt is omitted because it is not a naked-eye object. The rest of these can be seen. The semi-circular branches represent the orbits. They represent the wheels within wheels of Ezekiel's vision. I understand better why #4 is called the number of the Earth. It is easy to see why there are seven rings around Saturn, why seven is God's number, and why Saturn is the third heaven. Zech. 3:9 (LXX) says "as for the stone which I have set before the face of Jesus, on the one stone are seven eyes (orbs, circles, rings)." Now I understand why the western lamp was always to stay lit. It represented the Sun. Everythings falls into place nicely.

Incoming Email

A friend of mine gave me your web address. I must say it's very fasctenating. I beleive the rapture will be very soon. And I have been praying every day that I be in that glorious group. I have been watching Kenneth Copeland this week, he has had Charles Capps on promoting his book End Time Events. I have read it already it's quite good. He makes the point that the verse in Matt 24 Know man know the day or the hour is referring to the second advent. (The comming of the Son of Man.) Also he has been speaking about the Bible code. And how it say's in the code that Michael will call the bride up to Heaven. Also that our names are in there. The Bible is the Lambs Book of Life!!! Glory to God!!! God Bless You

My reply

That is good news that our names are in the Bible. Does Charles Capps give his opinion on the date of the Rapture?

Incoming Email

RE: THE DAY OF RAPTURE PROPHESIZED:
> One of the commonly overlooked points concerning the rapture is that it has
> ywo components: The resurrection of the dead, closely followed in time by the
> divine removal and being caught up in the air by those who are alive. If we
> dewire to know what g-d all we need do is see what He did in past. Yeshua was
> raptured on the Feast of Firstfruits and the upcoming rapture will take place
> on same Feast day!!! Matthew 27: 51 At that moment

***From Marilyn: At the moment of his death on Crucifixion Day. Verse 50 says he "yielded up the ghost."

> the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and
> the rocks split. 52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died
> were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection
> they went into the holy city and appeared to many people." { The raising of
> the dead, together with the living being caught up in the air describes the
> rapture. Here in Matthew again the dead being raised is not only a type,
> foreshadow and similitude of the resurrection of the dead, but also of the rapture.}
> PSALM 72: 5 HE WILL ENDURE AS LONG AS THE SUN, AS LONG AS THE MOON, THROUGH ALL
> GENERATIONS. 6 HE WILL BE LIKE RAIN FALLING ON A FIELD BEFORE BEING MOWN, { MOWN AS
> IN A WHEAT HARVEST,,, A "HARVEST OF BELIEVERS ! } LIKE SHOWERS WATERING THE EARTH.
> POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION: RAIN IS THE HOLY SPIRIT, MOWN FIELD SYMBOLIZES A HARVEST
> THAT JUST HAPPENED, I.E. THE RAPTURE! RAIN (MIRACLES) BEFORE THE RAPTURE!!

***Green's Interlinear does not say "before" being mown, but "He shall descend like rain on the mown grass." The next two verses in the KJV say, "In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth. He shall have dominion also from sea to sea." I think this is talking about Christ's Second Advent as the latter rain after the destruction on the Day of God's Wrath.

> RAPTURE PROPHESY
> THE 1st RAPTURE WILL OCCUR AT ASTRONOMICALLY LOCAL MIDNIGHT ON THE THE JEWISH
> HARVEST FESTIVAL OF FIRSTFRUITS-HARVEST OF THE FIRST WHEAT-- CALLED THE DAY OF
> RESURRECTION BY CHRISTIANS,,, 4/1-2/99. ***I take this as your opinion rather than a prophecy. As I understand it, the sheaf cut on Firstfruits was of barley (Unger's Bible Dictionary, p. 355), and the wheat harvest was on Pentecost. In 5759 (our 1999), April 1 and 2 are Thurs., Nisan 15 and Fri., Nisan 16. Wouldn't Firstfruits be on Sunday?

> FIRSTFRUITS
> ...In acknowledgment of the fact
> that all the products of the land came from God, and to show thankfulness for
> his goodness, Israelites brought as an offering a portion of the fruits that
> ripened first. These were looked on as a pledge of the coming harvest (The
> upcoming harvest after the rapture is the harvest of tribulation saints). Such
> an offering was made both on behalf of the nation (Lev 23:10, 17) and by
> individuals (Exod 23:19; Deut 26:1-11). These firstfruits went for the support
> of the priesthood. Yeshua is our (earthlings) ONLY priesthood-Intercessor to
> G-d; thus thr fruits of the rapture belong to Him. Do not forget that at the
> rapture, Just as Yeshuas resurrection, the graces will open and yield their
> dead first, then we how are alive shall meet the L-rd in the air.
> Jesus is the firstfruits of all who die in faith (1 Cor 15:20). Believers, in
> turn, are "a kind of firstfruits" of all that God created (James 1:18);
> creation will share in the redemption of the children of God (Rom 8:19-21).
> The word rapture does appear in the bible as rapiere in the original Latin
> vulgate .. circa 400 AD; harpazo in the Greek and Ha Natzal in Hebrew in the
> Tanakh (OT)....

> BIBLICAL TIME/MONTHS ...
> 1. Abib (Post-Exilic name: Nisan) March-April Month 7...
> Season: Spring; Later rains. {SEE SONG OF SONGS, WHEN GROOM COMES FOR BRIDE !!!};
> Agriculture: Barley and flax harvest begin....
> Feasts: 14th, Passover (Ex 12:18; Lev 23:5); 15-21st, Unleavened Bread (Lev
> 23:6); 16th, Firstfruits (Lev 23:10f).
> 2. Ziv (Post-Exilic name: Iyyar) April-May Month 8 in civil sequence....
> Agriculture: Barley harvest. > Feasts: 14th, Later Passover (Nu 9:10-11).
> 3. Sivan (Post-Exilic name) May-June Month 9 in civil sequence....
> Agriculture: Early figs ripen Wheat harvest.
> Feasts: 6th, Pentecost or Feast of Weeks (Lev 23:15ff); Harvest. ... it is my opinion that great miracles and Jewish revival will occur in the Spring of 1999!

***I think so too, except I think it will be on the pilgrimage festival Pentecost, when the people were to go up to Jerusalem at the time of the wheat harvest. The Old Testament saints went up to New Jerusalem during the first pilgrimage festival, Passover. It seems possible to me that the Church saints will go up to New Jerusalem on the second pilgrimage festival, Pentecost. I Cor. 15:22,23 says, "in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank): Christ the firstfruits; AFTERWARD they that are Christ's at his coming." It doesn't sound to me as if we will be made alive on firstfruits, but AFTERWARD....

***Don't you think the second pilgrimage festival sounds like a good bet? We are the wheat (Mt. 13:29,30), and Pentecost is the wheat harvest.

Incoming Email

Re: We need to do our homework: FWD from: THE RAPTURE OF THE CONGREGATION, written by: Dick Wood, B.Th.

"The RAPTURE of the Church has been and is still the subject of much heated debate in our day. Unknown to most Christians, the popular view of the last one hundred years, concerning the doctrinal view that the Church will not be present during the last seven years of human history, has not always been the accepted view....Grant Jeffries claims that he has found such proof in the writing of a 3rd century Byzantine father named Pseudo Ephraim. The entire quote is on record in a 1985 book authored by Paul Andrews intitled "The Byzantine Apolyptic Tradition". Jeffries claim is a complete misrepresentation of the truth. It is a lie. It is a deliberate misquote of what Pseudo Ephraim wrote, akin to the misquote of Jefferson concerning his statement about "a separation of church and state." P. Ephraim says that the Church will be delivered from the wrath of God upon the earth sent to judge the sinners. This is as far as Jeffries quotes the historical document. However, the very next sentence states that before all this the Church of Jesus Christ must suffer under the Satanic persecutions of the Anti-Christ. Why did Jefferies leave this sentence off, as it expresses the whole idea of how S. Ephraim saw the end of the age. Jefferies has fostered a lie in order to substantiate his position...."

My reply

I don't see an actual quote of Pseudo-Ephraem in the above. Here is an actual quote:

In his just-under-1500-word sermon, "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World," Pseudo-Ephraem (c.374-627) said, "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins."

It sure sounds to me like the writer thought the saints would be taken to the Lord before the Tribulation. However, it is not what any human being says, but what the Scripture says that is the truth. I can see it in Scripture. That is all I need.

Incoming Email


> ...I think the Bible appears to teach a generation is a little over 38 solar
> years (40 350 day years) while you think it is 40 solar years. Of
> course the starting point for this generation I agree with you, that
> being June 7, 1967.

> "And the space in which we came from Kadesh-barnea until we were come
> over the brook Zered was thirty and eight years, until all the
> generations of the men of war were wasted out from among the host, as
> the Lord sware unto them." (Deut. 2:14)...

My reply

De. 2:7 says, "he knoweth thy walking through this great wilderness: these forty years the LORD thy God hath been with thee." Verse 29 says, "until I shall pass over Jordan into the land which the LORD our God giveth us."

In between is verse 14 that you quoted. The men of war were "wasted out."

Hebrews 3:9,10 says, "When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works FORTY YEARS. Wherefore I was grieved with THAT GENERATION..." To me, this clearly indicates forty years for "that generation." Then "This generation" of the fig tree parable (Mt. 24:32-34) = 40 years. "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world (ages) are come" (I Cor. 10:11).

Forty years from 1967 (Sign of the End of the Age) is 2007. From the Feast of Weeks in 2001 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007 is 2300 days (Dan. 8:14), counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning. If we back up to the period between these feasts in 1999 to 2005, there are 2329 days. From 2000 to 2006, there are 2298 days. We only have one time left in the forty year span that this period equals 2300 days--2001 to 2007. To me, the Tribulation should start on the Feast of Weeks in 2001. If a generation was 38 years, there would not be a 2300-day period like this left at all.

Incoming Email

Re: Binary asteroid: Just wanted to briefly comment on something that struck me as I was reading P&C's.

"Even if detected, one, probably a binary (Rev. 8:8,10), will hit Earth. One piece will hit the Mediterranean Sea. The other will obliterate Babylon on the Euphrates. They will impact Earth at noon on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord and wipe out civilization as we know it. "BEHOLD, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the Inhabitants thereof....the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left" (Isa. 24:1,6)."

NASA and government agencies probably already have nukes in space, pointed inward and outward. Perhaps, when they spot the Biblical asteroid, they will shoot nukes at it and cause it to split, thus their own arrogance will fulfill Biblical prophesies about two impacts. Just a thought... and certainly not an important one. It would be somehow ironic that as our nation places more and more faith in science and less in God, that science would be a tool used to fulfill prophesy.

I hope both you and Ed are doing well. Glad to hear he's improving! Godbless

My reply

In 1991, I attended a meeting of astronomers and have tried to keep up with subsequent developments in this field. At the meeting, they had those working on such a weapon stand. Only a handful stood, and we were told that that was half of the people working on it in the whole world. I do not think they have yet developed the necessary weapon to try to even divert an asteroid. At the meeting, I spoke with Eleanor Helin, principal investigator hunting for NEAs, and told her when I thought the asteroid would strike. As far as I know, none has been found that is now on a collision course with Earth on Sept. 13, 2007. From Isa. 22:18, we find that the Lord "will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country." From Jer. 23:19, we find that "a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind." It may be that the orbit of the incoming asteroid will be diverted by this whirlwind. The astronomers may not get enough time to even try to do anything about it. It is hard to get funding for a project that they think may not even happen for hundred's of years.

Ed and I are doing fine. In early Nov., he goes to get the doctor's evaluation of his echocardiogram. After that comes the treadmill test, and after that physical therapy. In the meantime, he is carefully walking around in the house by himself. We link arms when we go out just to steady him a bit. He still can't pull his left toe up toward his head at all because of nerve damage on the outside of his knee--obviously done by pressure against the table during surgery.

Incoming Email

I have visited your site concerning the Rapture of the perfected saints.I find it to be an excellent site to inform others of the unveiling of the glory of God.

The world is too corrupted today, confirming the prophecy of the "falling away". The reason for me writing to you is to ask a few questions that have been bothering me for some time.
1.What is the truth of Islam?I am sure it is all lies written in the Quran.
2.What will happen to the Muslims in the Rapture?

I hope you will be able to answer these humble questions of mine soon. Thanking you Kindly

My reply

There is no chance for anyone to be saved aside from Jesus Christ. Acts 4:12 says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Incoming Email

I very much have to disagree with you on the date you set for the Rapture and must ask how much of a bible scholar you are if you can't understand what Mt 24:42-44 means. "Therefire be on alert, for you DO NOT KNOW which day the lord is Comming. But bew sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the theif wwas comming, he would have been on alert and would not have been allowed his house to be broken into. For this reason you be ready too; fot the Son of Man is COMMING AT AN HOUR WHEN YOU DO NOT THINK HE WILL." (emphasis mine)

Also consider that Jesus also said that even he didn't know when he was comming back, cause God was keeping it a secret untill the time had come.

If these things make sence to you then please don't get any other new believer or non bible-scholar hyped up about a date that will more than likely be wrong cause scriputre says it will.

Please take these into consideration. Your brother in Christ

My reply

Mark 13:23 says, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you ALL THINGS." What can you exclude from "ALL THINGS"?

In Mt. 24"36, the word "know" is in the present tense. At that time, no man knew. It is for the last generation to know. I John 2:18,20,27 says, "Little children, it is the LAST TIME (year? as in Rev. 12:14)...But ye have an unction (anointing) from the Holy One, and ye know ALL THINGS....the same anointing teacheth you of ALL THINGS."

"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7).

"NOTHING IS SECRET, THAT SHALL NOT BE MADE MANIFEST: NEITHER ANY THING HID, THAT SHALL NOT BE KNOWN AND COME ABROAD" (Lu. 8:17).

Incoming Email

The "two witnesses" of Revelation 11 are the Scriptures, typified as "two" because the Word comes to us as both "letter" and "Spirit", see 2 Corinthians 3:6. Or, you might see them as the two covenants in Scripture, old and new. They are the "natural body" (the law, or old testament) and the "spiritual body" ( grace, the new testament ).

The letter of the Word is the Scriptures interpreted by the natural man, that is "carnally".

The Spirit of the Word is the Scriptures interpreted by the spiritual man, that is "spiritually", or allegorically.

The two witnesses are "killed" as in Revelation 11:7 every time we interpret the Scripture carnally. We put the truth to death when we see only the letter of the Word. That is why the old testament is called a "ministration of death" in 2 Corinthians 3:7.

The "three days and a half" are a type of the law, or the time each believer spends under the law before salvation. When we are saved then the Spirit of God enters the Scriptures for us and shows us the Spirit of the Word, just as in Revelation 11:11 "... the Spirit of God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet;..." This is a picture of the Word being turned from a carnal Word to a Spiritual Word within us. It is a spiritual picture of our salvation.

This is the spiritual way in which you must approach these verses if you are ever to see any light in them. Best regards

My reply

I take Scripture literally unless it is obvious that it is symbolic. If you spiritualize it, you can make it mean anything your heart desires or your mind can imagine. In effect, you have done away with it. It is no longer concrete. For me, it is rock-hard truth.

Incoming Email

From Finland:
http://www.ldolphin.org/pentecost.html
Hi ! just found an interesting article on pentecost. Especially the part about sounds and torches was new to me.

My reply

Thanks. I finally got time to read it carefully. The part about sounds and torches was new to me also. Here are some interesting excerpts:

Shalom and Hag Shavu'ot Samay'ach (Happy Pentecost)! by Uri Marcus (in Israel)

...Shavu'ot (also called "Weeks," or "Pentecost,"...one of the three pilgrim festivals (in Hebrew "shalosh regalim"), and was primarily an agricultural holiday connected with the peak of the new wheat and barley crop. After the crop was harvested, a portion was brought to Yerushali'im and offered along with special sacrifices of thanksgiving at the Temple.

...It also serves as a conclusion to Pesach which began 7 weeks prior....

In synagogues, it is customary to read Megilat Rut (the book of Ruth) whose setting also takes place in spring and at harvest time.... The real festival of freedom did not come until Shavu'ot, when bnei Israel would stand before G-d on their wedding day, complete with a canopy (Har Sinai), a ketubah (marriage contract), i.e. the Torah, and stipulations of the covenant which included a homeland and a Holy Temple which would serve to maintain the covenant....

Shavu'ot is the culmination of time between redemption promised and redemption realized.

Pesach is when G-d promised to marry us; Shavu'ot is the marriage itself. The seven weeks in between, are like the 7 crucial days that a bride-to-be counts in preparation for her wedding, during which she purifies and readies herself. There can be no achievement of a goal without such preparation. It requires t'shuva or repentance-a willingness to turn to G-d...

3. In Acts 2, it is recorded that tongues of fire were seen resting on the heads of the Talmidim. What did this remind them of, and how does it relate to the holiday of Shavu'ot?

From a Jewish point of view, which was the point of view most commonly held in the days of the Talmidim (disciples), the events of Acts 2 echo what occurred on Har (Mt.) Sinai, some 1400 years earlier. But, it wasn't only a "repeat performance," it was a sequel--"Mt. Sinai II," if you will...

Take a look at verse 3...

"And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them."

From these two mountains, Har Sinai, and Har Tzion, the Lord of all the earth played out, as if from two grand stages, Israel's greatest revelations. From one mountain, the Law, our beloved Torah, the very instruction of G-d was revealed in booming voices that made Israel tremble. From the other mountain (Tzion), languages of every region made Israel wonder, as the Spirit of the Holy One, blessed be He, was given to enable us to keep those instructions.

Shavu'ot was originally marked as one of the feasts in which Jews were commanded to come up to Yerushali'im and worship in the Temple, but, as mentioned before, the most significant element was the commemoration of the giving of Torah on Har Sinai. The dates mentioned in Shm'ot (Exodus) reveal that Torah was given on Har Sinai fifty days after Israel had left Egypt. The instructions, therefore, that Yeshua left for the Apostles to wait at Har Tzion for the Spirit were not arbitrary, but part of G-d's larger plan to fulfill prophecy. It was designed so that the Apostles and all those who were present in the Temple Court that day would recognize this magnificent re-enactment of the giving of Torah on Har Sinai.

"When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear." (Shm'ot 20:18).

In Hebrew, the "thunder and lightning" in this passage literally reads "voices and torches." But when the Greek translation of the Torah was completed in the 3rd century BCE, "voices" was translated "thunders", because voices are normally heard rather than seen, and "torches" was translated "lightnings" probably because lightning seems more dramatic....

* A "mixed multitude" who came to worship the G-d of Israel
* Voices and torches that were seen (and heard)
* A sign of 3000. 3000 died when they rejected the Torah at Har Sinai.
* 3000 lived when they accepted the Torah through the Spirit on Har Tzion.
* Everyone heard in their own language, "speaking of the mighty deeds of G-d." in a way which he could understand....

"And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent, rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.

So, what filled the place where they were sitting was this mighty whirring sound, which actually sounds much like an on coming roar of a very fast moving train. In actuality the breath of life is the same force in Breshit (Genesis,) of the Spirit of G-d, at creation. It was therefore not something imagined or proclaimed to be happening by someone, but a very powerful event that was completely unmistakable, and witnessed by thousands....

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 10-27-98