Pro and Con 210, Uploaded 11-6-98, PM

Incoming Email

Have you ever thought of adding up all the Days that Jesus lived from Trumpets of 5 B.C. to his death in April 30 A.D., then using that amount of days adding from June 7th, 1967 to ?. I only wonder what date that would be? Somewhere in 2000 or 2001 possibly. I 'm not sure the excact length of days Jesus lived. Could you help or get some one else to figure it out? Thank you

My reply

I haven't added up the days, but Jesus lived 33 1/5 years. The year 1967 + 33.5 = 2000.5. The days of the Jewish calendar nearly equal ours in a 19-year span. That would be close.

I think the Tribulation will begin on Pentecost in 2001. The Crucifixion was certainly maximum tribulation. Do you think there is a correlation?

BTW, I send your replys, but they are always returned as undeliverable.

Incoming Email

FROM CAPS.... The scripture says in Numbers 33:3 that Israel DEPARTED "ON THE 15TH DAY OF THE FIRST MONTH"--Exodus 12 shows they had just eaten the passover lamb that night. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS SKIPPING A DAY. YOU ACCUSED ME OF "SKIPPING A DAY"--THE EXACT PROBLEM THAT YOU HAVE !!! You attempt to say "depart" does not mean "depart". YOU "ADD" YOUR OWN REASONING TO THE HOLY WRITTEN WORD, and then have the audacity to write(your words) "..Be sure that you let things fall where they will and not make them fit a preconceived notion." Marilyn you are guilty of your own words. You wrote them, not me.THE BIBLE SAYS IN NUMBERS 33:3 THAT ISRAEL DEPARTED ON THE 15TH. You now CHANGE YOUR STORY TO "FIT" your preconceived opinion saying .."Well, they really started to depart on the 14th.." SORRY, I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD RATHER THAN YOUR STUBBORN OPINION.Yes, Agape love is important. So is the TRUTH of the word of God. I wrote you before about the "danger" of not being willing to change your opinion when shown wrong. I have clearly quoted the WORD OF GOD in Numbers 33:3. You are rejecting the Word.You have in effect twisted the scripture to fit what you think.YOU ARE UNABLE TO QUOTE A VERSE WHICH SAYS THEY DEPARTED ON THE 14TH--SO YOU GIVE YOUR OPINION. THE CONTEXT IN EX.12 SHOWS THERE WAS NO GAP TO THE EATING OF THE PASSOVER MEAL ON THE NIGHT OF THE 15TH(THE START OF THE NIGHT OF THE 15TH) AND ISRAEL DEPARTING THAT SAME--REPEAT SAME- DAY. I REPEAT, EXODUS 12 DOES NOT SHOW A GAP. YOU SAY OTHERWISE. I CHOOSE TO REJECT YOUR OPINION AND GO WITH WHAT THE WORD SAYS ! Marilyn, you cannot CUT the pieces of the puzzle to MAKE them fit what you want them to. To quote your own words.."You are trying hard...just pay MORE ATTENTION TO SCRIPTURE.."PLEASE, FOLLOW YOUR OWN ADVISE !

Re Jesus being the FIRSTBORN AMOUNG MANY BRETHREN, THIS OF COURSE APPLIES ONLY TO A RESSURECTION TO IMMORTAL, GLORIFIED LIFE. There were others who were raised to physical life such as Lazarus. You left that out or your comments. The saints in Matt 27:52-53 -- could have been resurrected to physical life.As you said, let's pay CLOSE attention to scripture. In Christian love

My reply

> YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS SKIPPING A DAY.

:-) That would be a good trick, seeing as I am saying they started to move out on the 14th and you are saying the 15th.

> You now CHANGE YOUR STORY TO "FIT" your preconceived opinion saying
> .."Well, they really started to depart on the 14th.."

Here is what I said:

"The KJV says, And they departed (naca, go out, to remove a camp) from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover. They cleared out of Rameses on the 15th. That does not mean that they did not start to leave on the 14th. There were 600,000 men plus women, children and animals to move out."

I did not change my story. This is how I believe it took place, and I had a similar discussion with someone else on this years ago. I have a thick folder of our correspondence in my files.

> I wrote you before about the "danger" of not being willing to
> change your opinion when shown wrong.

I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. Neither of us should try to cram our opinion down someone else's throat. We should discuss the pro and cons of the subject in a friendly manner and let the other person make up his/her own mind. I'll change my opinion any time that I can see that the scriptures say something different. You could be right, but I have to be able to see that that is what the scriptures really indicate.

> I have clearly quoted the WORD OF GOD in Numbers 33:3. You are rejecting the Word.
> You have in effect twisted the scripture to fit what you think.YOU ARE UNABLE TO QUOTE
> A VERSE WHICH SAYS THEY DEPARTED ON THE 14TH--SO YOU GIVE YOUR OPINION.

I am merely trying to determine what these scriptures really mean. They are all true. We have to figure out how they can all be true. Let's start over and examine the scriptures and see what they indicate.

Lev. 23:5: "In the FOURTEENTH day of the first month AT EVEN" (6:00 PM, the beginning of the Jewish day) is the LORD'S PASSOVER."

EX. 12:6-8 (LXX) "the children of Israel shall kill it TOWARD EVENING (Green: 'between the evenings,' i.e., between 3:00 and 5:00 PM, Nisan 13). And they shall take of the blood, and shall put it on the two door-posts, and on the lintel, in the houses in which soever they shall eat them. And they shall eat the flesh IN THIS NIGHT (Nisan 14) roast with fire...Nothing shall be left of it till the morning, and a bone of it ye shall not break."

Ex. 12:11,12: "eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it IN HASTE: it is the LORD'S PASSOVER. For I will pass through the land of Egypt THIS NIGHT (night of Passover), and will smite all the firstborn."

Ex. 12:29-43: "at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt...Pharaoh rose up in the NIGHT...And he called for Moses and Aaron BY NIGHT, and said, RISE UP (in the night), and GET YOU FORTH (in the night)...the Egyptians were URGENT...that they might send them out of the land IN HASTE...And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders...And the children of Israel JOURNEYED (LXX note, 'Gr. having departed') from Rameses to Succoth...THRUST OUT of Egypt, and COULD NOT TARRY, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual (no breakfast, etc.)...It is a NIGHT to be much observed unto the LORD for BRINGING THEM OUT from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the LORD to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations. And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the PASSOVER."

Ex. 13:3: "Remember THIS DAY (the daylight portion of the 14th), in which ye came out from Egypt."

Ex. 12:51: And it came to pass the selfsame DAY (Passover, v. 43), that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies."
______

Nisan 13: Day of Preparation
"kill it TOWARD EVENING" as Nisan 14 was nearing
______

Nisan 14: Feast of Passover
-----12 hours of night
Ate Passover in haste, dressed, shoes on, staff in hand, ready to go
Death of firstborn of Egypt at midnight
Started out in the night, "thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry"

-----12 hours of day
"THIS DAY, in which ye came out from Egypt"
"the selfsame DAY that the LORD did bring...Israel out of...Egypt"
______

Lev. 23:6: "And on the FIFTEENTH day of the same month is the feast of UNLEAVENED BREAD."

Nu. 33:3,5: "And they DEPARTED (naca, prim. root, Gesenius: 'to pull up, to pluck out...especially the stakes of a tent when a camp moves...to remove a camp, to break up from an encampment') from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day...on the morrow after the passover...in the SIGHT (i.e., probably daylight) of all the Egyptians...And the children of Israel REMOVED from Rameses, and pitched in Succoth."

______

Nisan 15: Feast of Unleavened Bread
-----12 hours of night

-----12 hours of day
"they departed from Ramesus...in the sight of all the Egyptians"
______

As you can see, Scripture supports their starting to leave after midnight on the night of Nisan 14, There were 600,000 men plus women, children and animals to move out. They kept going until all were "REMOVED from Rameses" on Nisan 15.

There were so many people that for all to get across the Red Sea in one night, someone figured out that they had to cross 5000 abreast (Dr. Danny Kellum, see below) You have to think of all those people. They could not all clear out at one instant of time. Besides that, they had their flocks, herds, and cattle with them (Ex. 12:37,38). In His love

Incoming Email

FWD: Moses Faith in God, By: Dr. Danny Kellum

One of the biggest arithmetical miracles in the world: Moses and the people were in the desert, but what was he going to do with them? They had to be fed, and feeding 3 or 3 1/2 million people requires a lot of food.

According to the Quartermaster General in the Army, it is reported that Moses would have to have 1,500 tons of food each day. Do you know that to bring that much food each day, two freight trains each a mile long would be required! Besides you must remember, they were out in the desert, and they would have to have firewood to use in cooking the food. This would take 4,000 tons of wood and a few more freight trains each a mile long, just for one day.

And just think, they were forty years in transit.

Oh, yes, they would have to have water. If they only had enough to drink and wash a few dishes, it would take 11,000,000 gallons each day, and a freight train with tank cars 1,800 miles long, just to bring water!

And then another thing. They had to get across the Red Sea at night. Now, if they went on a narrow path, double file, the line would be 800 miles long and would require 35 days and nights to get through. So, there had to be a space in the Red Sea, 3 miles wide so that they could walk 5,000 abreast to get over in one night.

But then another problem. Each time they camped at the end of the day, a campground two-thirds the size of the state of Rhode Island was required, or a total of 750 square miles long, think of it! This space just for nightly camping.

Do you think Moses figured all this out before he left Egypt? I think not!

You see, Moses believed in God. God took care of these things for him. Let us take courage, we have the same God. We think our problems are so big.

Remember what God can do! What He has done! Team up with God and your problems will be His. Let Him run your life. All the way the Savior leads us HOME.

Incoming Email

Greetings in the name of the Lord. After reading P&C 186 I remembered something I had looked at 15 years ago and that was Matt. 1:17. Abraham was born in 2161 B.C. (documented), Jesus was born 4 B.C. (calculated). So subtracting 4 from 2161 you get 2157 years. Divide 2157 by 42 generations and you get 51.357 years or 51 years 4 months 8 days. If you add this to May 14, 1948 this would take you to Sept. 22. 1999. I beleive this is Yom Kippur + or -. I do not profess to be an expert in this and only saw a possible connection with this verse Matt. 1:17 and Matt. 24:34. Maybe you have a better definition or I may be way off, but I thought I would share this with you.

One other thing I wanted to comment on while I was writing and that was about the discussions made in the P&C's about The ten virgins being ready and having our lamps full of oil when the master comes. Please read Isaiah 58:10. As you do, I beleive that the oil is representative of the Holy Spirit but I think that this verse is the match that ignites the oil. Turns ours midnight into nooday sun. I found this very interesting because at the beginning of your web page you had previously had a statement about loving one another which I thought was right on.

I really appreciate your work you put into this great web site and I really enjoyed your books I've read. God bless

My reply

Thanks for the information and kind comments.

> Abraham was born in 2161 B.C. (documented), Jesus was born 4 B.C. (calculated). So
> subtracting 4 from 2161 you get 2157 years. Divide 2157 by 42 generations and you
> get 51.357 years or 51 years 4 months 8 days.

I calculated this too at one time. I took 4039 AH (Tishri 1 in our BC 5) less 2008 AH (BC 2035, Abram's birth on my chronology chart) = 2031 divided by 42 = 48.35. I wondered if I should go by that or by the 40 years that is repeated so many times. I opted for the 40 because it is repeated and not only was the wilderness wandering a type, but Jesus told the Pharisees that these things would come upon that generation. They did in 70 AD, just 40 years after the Crucifixion.

Note: I counted the 2300 days from the Feast of Weeks to the Feast of Trumpets six years later up to the upper limit just in case.

Incoming Email

Re: Procon 76
I have been getting a very positive response from people I have shown this. I am sure there are many other occurences like this on the WEB. The person, yet anonymous, nature of the WEB is an ideal forum for seekers, especially when they can get the prompt responses you provide. Early this year when I was seeking I got assistance from Billy Graham's organization, but they cannot respond quickly and sometimes that can be critical. I think there is a lot of unused potential here. I am going to explore it further.

I never heard anything further from Daniel Thomas. How is he doing?

Let me know if I can help you with anything. May God Bless You.

My reply

Thanks. I haven't heard again from Daniel. I just pray that the Lord will find a way to dispel his doubts.

I am not always able to respond promptly either. I have 289 emails in my Inbox, but when I see someone that has doubts or needs to accept Christ, I put those first.

Incoming Email

I can't resist; told you I thought the Lord was coming in 1999. (Interesting analyses; by the way, glad to finally see new web page!)

My reply

That's ok. I sure hope you are right. I'm glad to finally get the new file up too. It was long overdue. Wish there were more hours in a day.

Incoming Email

From Finland: Re: the crossing comets
Interesting understanding of comets and stars in the following site.
http://triumph.simplenet.com/perseus.htm

My reply

Thank you for this URL! I enjoyed the article and copied it for future reference.

Note: Here is an interesting excerpt:
"Bob Wadsworth, who had done intensive work studying and plotting the courses of comets, discovered that while plotting the path of the comet Hyakutake during the month of April 1996 against the path of the comet Hale Bopp in April of 1997, an almost perfect right angle is formed by their paths which crossed each other on the exact same date of the year (April 11, both years). To be precise, both comets occupied the exact same space in the sky on the very same date, Hyakutake on April 11, 1996, and Hale Bopp on April 11, 1997! The chances against this event having occurred by sheer accident would be astronomically huge -- yet it happened. Sheer coincidence? That is what non-believing skeptics would have us believe.

"But the case does not stop there. Even more interesting, is that the intersection of these two comets, on this precise date, plotting their courses in the sky, shows that their pathways formed a "cross" -- reminiscent of the cross of Jesus Christ, who died on such an emblem to pay the price for the sins of mankind, and to deliver mankind from the power of Satan, the devil!

"What is even more interesting, however, is the fact that this "conjunction" of the two comets occurred at a fascinating point in the sky -- that is, their point of convergence was in the constellation of Perseus, a figure typifying Christ. In the figure in the sky, Perseus holds the severed head of the Gorgon, Medusa. The intersection point just happens to be in the middle of the head of Medusa, at the eye! The eye of Medusa is the star named 'Algol.'

"Traditionally, the star Algol is the most malevolent star of the heavens! The Hebrews call this star the head of Satan!"...

Incoming Email

I have been enjoying your web page trememdously! Just a thought you may want to consider. In Romans 8:1 I would suggest more of the idea "penal servitude to sin" check out Moulton & Milligan. The idea of course, since "sin" is in the singular, it is referring to the power of sin which has been broken to all those who are in Christ Jesus. Damnation is not the issue in this section.
I will get back to you later concerning the two raptures theory which I want to study.

My reply

I don't have Moulton & Milligan. Is there more said there that I should know?

Linked to "condemnation," I had written in the margin, "penalty, as a result of condemnation." I can't remember now where I got that.

Incoming Email

Since the Rapture may not necessarily be on a Sunday, could you please tell me what years in the future have seven months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1 instead of the usual six months? I agree with you about the seven months of burying the dead.

Also, concerning the Temple having to be in place at a certain time, Israel sacrificed in the past without being actually in a temple before there was a temple. And when the Bible refers to the anti-christ stopping the sacrifice, it does not necessarily mean that sacrificing has been going on previously. It could be that the anti-christ stops the sacrifice just before it starts (it could be mid-trib before the Temple is finished). Or the ark could be revealed and placed on the Temple Mount for a sacrifice?

What do you think? Agape to You and Ed

My reply

> what years in the future have seven months between Tishri 1 and
> Nisan 1 instead of the usual six months?

Within the 40 year period, there are 5759 (1998/99), 5763 (2002/03), 5765 (2004/05), and 5768 (2007/08). Of these, only one has the preceeding 2300-day period from a Feast of Weeks to a Feast of Trumpets six years later--5768.

> concerning the Temple having to be in place at a certain time

Rev. 11:1 mentions measuring the temple. That is at the very start of the 1260-day ministry of the two witnesses at the beginning of the Tribulation.

> when the Bible refers to the anti-christ stopping the sacrifice, it does not
> necessarily mean that sacrificing has been going on previously. It could be that
> the anti-christ stops the sacrifice just before it starts

Dan. 8:13,14 says, "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?: And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." I think the daily sacrifice does take place and that this 2300 days includes both the time that they sacrifice and the time that they can't because the temple is desecrated.

I think sacrificing stops Mid-Trib when Satan enters into the False Prophet and sits in the temple showing himself that he is God. That day, he also kills the two witnesses, probably because they will not bow down to him. Since the temple is there at the beginning of the Tribulation, I think the sacrificing starts at the beginning of the Tribulation and ends at the termination of the 1260 days of the two witnesses' ministry.

Ed went to the cardiologist today. At the time of surgery, his heart was expelling 20% when it should have been 65%. Today, it is 35%, and is not expected to increase beyond this because of "prior damage." He has his appointment for the treadmill test next week. Rehab follows that. The doctor said he could walk now whatever he was up to as long as he did not become short of breath. He doesn't feel like walking but 1/4 of the mall about three times a week. He just gets tired, not short of breath. This took a lot out of him in a big hurry. He couldn't believe how much strength he had lost the first time he tried to stand up after surgery. We used to do the whole mall, two floors, about 4 days a week plus take Senior Sneaker classes at the gym twice a week. The doctor said that he would be able to do all the normal things, but no marathon. That sounded good to us. Ed smiled and told him he didn't want to do a marathon anyway.

While waiting to see the doctor, we talked with a recently retired nurse that had worked in CIC at the hospital Ed was in and in the Rehab that he will be in, plus, she had bypass surgery herself. Her husband had too, one month after hers, an emergency. I don't know how they managed those days. She gave us a better idea of what Ed is facing from someone that saw it both as a nurse and as a patient.

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 11-6-98