Pro and Con 217

Uploaded 11-19-98, PM

Incoming Email

Is it possible that the abomination of desolation will be set up 1,290 days AFTER the daily sacrifice is taken away?

...I agree the rapture could take place in the very near future. Praise the Lord!

My reply

> Is it possible that the abomination of desolation will be set up 1,290
> days AFTER the daily sacrifice is taken away?

I don't see how. As I understand it, the daily sacrifice will be taken away when the abomination of desolation is set up after the first 1260 days of the seven-year Tribulation.

The Tribulation is split into two segments, each of 1260 days. The first is the prophesying of the two witnesses. Rev. 11:3 says, "I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." The second segment is seen in Rev. 12:6,14: "And the woman (Israel) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place (Petra) prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days....And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle (airplane), that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (3 1/2 years), from the face of the serpent."

Mid-Trib. Mt. 24:15 says, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains." This fleeing begins Mid-Trib, when the Satan possessed False Prophet sits in the Temple "shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4) and sets up an idol. He will "cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed" (Rev. 13:15). This is when "he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in the right hand, or in their foreheads" (Rev. 13:16). This is probably the rice-sized micro-chip implant that is now beginning to be disseminated. Those that take this MARC "shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God" (Rev. 14:10).

Evidently, the two witnesses will not worship the image and will be killed. Rev. 11:7 says, "when they shall have finished their testimony (the first 1260 days of the Tribulation), the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit (Satan, in the False Prophet) shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them." This is when Satan is cast out of Heaven (Rev. 12:9) and goes into the False Prophet.

Three sets of days date from the time in the middle of the Tribulation when the abominations of desolation is set up, 1260, 1290 and 1335 days. The 1260 days is the "time, times, and an half" (3 1/2 years) of Dan. 12:7 and Rev. 12:6,14. Daniel 12:11-13 says, "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days."

Since Satan seems to have been given dominion until the end of the seven years, it looks like the Judgment of the Nations will be at the end of the last 1260 days. Not only will dominion be taken from Satan at that time, but mankind will be divided into "sheep" and "goats." The goats are done away with. Evidently the sheep will mourn for the goats for the customary 30 days, as "they mourned for Aaron thirty days" (Nu. 20:29). This is end of the 1290-day period. At the end of the 1335 days, Daniel will literally stand in his lot in the land of Israel. Ezek. 48:29 says, "This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance."

When dominion is taken away from Satan at the end of the 1260 days, the battle of Armageddon will begin. It is Satan's last ditch stand.

However, there is another battle that comes earlier, on the 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation. Jesus said, "For then (Mid-Trib) shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (Mt. 24:21,22).

On the 2300th day (Dan. 8:13,14), the united nations under the leadership of Gog will attack Israel. "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face" (Ezek. 38:18). This is the Feast of Trumpets when the seven trumpet judgments are cast on Earth. The Lord will fight for Israel in that day. The "great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea" (Rev. 8:8). This is an asteroid that impacts the Mediterranean Sea. "So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake" (Ezek. 38:20). "Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast" (Zeph. 2:4,5).

I hope this helps you understand the chronology of the Tribulation a bit better.

His reply

Thank you for your reply to my question regarding the 1,290 days of Daniel 12:11. All the expositions I have read regarding the 'end times' do, indeed, assume the abomination is set up at the same time that the daily sacrifice is taken away but that does not make it right. Daniel 12:11 states: "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." You will notice there is a 'from', " 'from' the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away" and, it seems to me, there has to be a 'to' but the only 'to' I can see is 'to' the time that "the abomination that maketh desolate is set up". This indicates, to me, that the abomination will not be set up until 1,290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away.

When I apply this to the chronology of the Revelation of Jesus Christ it leads me to conclude the additional 30 days (1,290-1,260), beyond the end of the second 1,260 day period, will be the time during which an angel will preach the gospel to the whole world, another angel will warn against taking the mark of the beast, etc., and a third angel will announce the fall of Babylon. Then, during the succeeding period of 45 days (1,335-1,290) the vial judgments will be poured out and it is these days which will be shortened as prophesied in Matthew 24:21-22.

I agree that the woman (Israel) will flee into the wilderness at the beginning of the second 1,260 days but this is not the 'fleeing' that is referred to in Matthew 24: 16-18 "Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes." This, most urgent, flight is not in the same category as being given the two wings of great eagle and going into a place that has been prepared.

Further, I do not agree with you about the two witnesses. They, I think, will prophesy during the second 1,260 days period, not the first. I think they will prophesy from the temple in Jerusalem and, because they are there and no man can harm them, the beast will not be able to set up the abomination until after they have been slain. Incidentally, the beast, although he is indwelt by Satan, is still a human being and, as such, he will be unable to kill the two witnesses but the king of the locusts (Revelation 9:11) is a supernatural beast and will be able to make war against them and slay them.

The chronology you so graciously outlined for me indicates the battle of Armageddon will last from the end of the second 1,260 day period through to the 1,335 days of Daniel 12:12. This is a period of 75 days and I doubt, very much, that Our Lord, who created the heaven and the earth in 6 days, will require 75 days to defeat the armies of the world.

It is my prayer that neither of us will be around to witness the actual events in question and, therefore, an accurate understanding of the chronology of the Revelation of Jesus Christ should not be a matter of concern but I do not like 'loose ends' and, unfortunately, all the chronologies I have read, based on the 'accepted' interpretation of Daniel 12:11 leave the 30 and 45 day periods up in the air and do not, satisfactorily, explain a number of prophecies....

My reply

On this, we may just have to agree to disagree agreeably. I will just state my position so you will understand what I believe.

> Daniel 12:11 states: "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken
> away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a
> thousand two hundred and ninety days." You will notice there is a
> 'from', " 'from' the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away"
> and, it seems to me, there has to be a 'to' but the only 'to' I can see
> is 'to' the time that "the abomination that maketh desolate is set up".
> This indicates, to me, that the abomination will not be set up until
> 1,290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away.

There is no "to," and we can't add one. Here is the way I understand it. The 1290 days start to run from one certain day. This time is when the sacrifice is taken away and the abomination set up. Maybe Dan. 12:11 in the Septuagint will make it clearer. It says, "And from the time of the removal of the perpetual sacrifice, WHEN the abomination of desolation shall be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." The sacrificing is taken away because the abomination that makes desolate is set up. It does its dirty work of making the temple desolate at that time.

This is Mid-Trib. Daniel 9:27 says, "And he (the Satan-indwelt prince that shall come) shall confirm (gabar, be stronger) the covenant (7-year peace treaty) with many (united nations) for one week (a week of years): and in the midst of the week (Mid-Trib) he shall cause the SACRIFICE and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of ABOMINATIONS (idols) he shall make it (the temple) desolate, even until the consummation (of the 7 years), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (lit., desolator, i.e., the final Antichrist, the Satan-indwelt False Prophet)."

> Then, during the succeeding period of 45
> days (1,335-1,290) the vial judgments will be poured out and it is these
> days which will be shortened as prophesied in Matthew 24:21-22.

These 1335 days begin to be counted when the sacrificing stops in the middle of the seven years. These days run past the time when Jesus returns, past the full end of the seven years. Daniel will literally stand in his own lot in Israel at the end of this 1335 days.

The days that have to be shortened or no flesh will be saved are the days from Mid-Trib until the world-wide catastrophe on the Day of God's Wrath. On that day all seven trumpet judgments will hit Earth. On that Feast of Trumpets, two major pieces of what is probably a binary asteroid will impact Earth (Rev. 8:8,10). The asteroid seems to come in at an oblique angle for there is fire on Magog, probably Russia, Babylon is destroyed and the broom of destruction sweeps all the way to Ethiopia. Egypt is so badly hurt that no one can live there for the next 40 years. "No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years" (Ezek. 29:11).

This part is conjecture, but just maybe if this asteroid was allowed to orbit the Earth one more time, it would hit us head on and blow this planet apart as Satan's planet, Rahab, was blown apart. Therefore, the Lord, by means of a whirlwind, causes it to strike us a glancing blow on an earlier orbit.

Jer. 23:19,20 says, "Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in FURY, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked. The ANGER of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider (biyn, understand, teach) it perfectly."

> This, most urgent, flight is not in the same category as being given the
> two wings of great eagle and going into a place that has been prepared.

Both take place Mid-Trib. Both have to do with Israel. The abomination of desolation is what makes them flee.

> the two witnesses. They, I think, will prophesy during the
> second 1,260 days period

If they did, they would have to go through the Day of God's Wrath, when the days are shortened or no flesh would be saved. I don't think that is possible.

> the beast will not be able to set up the abomination until after
> they have been slain.

I think they are slain because they will not bow down to him or his abomination. If the beast could not set up the abomination until the second 1260 days ran its course, he would be setting it up after Christ's return. That wouldn't be possible.

> the beast, although he is indwelt by Satan, is still a human being and, > as such, he will be unable to kill the two witnesses but the king of the > locusts (Revelation 9:11) is a supernatural beast and will be able to > make war against them and slay them.

If the two witnesses were killed when the bottomless pit is opened, they would not be able to prophesy 1260 days. I think there are only 1040 days for this is when the shortening takes place. I believe the time from the Feast of Weeks that begins the Tribulation to the Day of God's Wrath is 2300 days (Dan. 8:14) (2300 - 1260 = 1040).

> The chronology you so graciously outlined for me indicates the battle
> of Armageddon will last from the end of the second 1,260 day period
> through to the 1,335 days of Daniel 12:12. This is a period of 75 days
> and I doubt, very much, that Our Lord, who created the heaven and the
> earth in 6 days, will require 75 days to defeat the armies of the world.

I don't think that Armageddon will last to the end of the 1335 days. I think it will last 40 days and 40 nights. Dan. 9:26 says, "and the end thereof shall be with a FLOOD, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

I could not figure out by myself how long Armageddon would last. In exasperation, I told the Lord he would have to show me. He did. It rained 40 days and 40 nights in the Los Angeles area. I have the 1986 Information Please Almanac. Our great rain of 1969 is listed on page 431 under Disasters. I also have "The Savage Storm" tab section put out by the Santa Ana Register with the beginning and ending dates. There were two great storms, and it never stopped raining in between the two. It just rained lightly. This is so unusual in this area, it is hard to believe it happened, but we were here when it did. Ed had to get out in the pouring rain to ditch around our garage or we would have had a river running right through our garage. That was in spite of there being a steep slope down to our neighbor's yard in back of us. Our back yard was only a bit over 28 feet from the back of the garage to the property line. That is not that much collecting area. One day, Ed couldn't get our car across one place in Norwalk to get home to La Mirada because of flooding. Later, they put in a flood channel at that spot so that never happened again. I think it rained 7 inches just that one day.

Incoming Email

Thanks so much for writing back - I realise you're exceptionally busy.

RE: giants in heaven (our promised land)

Will we have to drive out the giants in heaven? We might still be doing warfare when we get to heaven? in Christ

My reply

I don't think there is any warfare for us when we get to heaven. Satan and his angels are cast out of Heaven in the middle of the Tribulation, but Michael and his angels take care of that. However, we are in Christ's army that returns to Earth with him at the Second Advent. When he takes dominion away from Satan, the battle of Armageddon will break out. After the millennial government is set up on Earth, I think we will return to our home in Heaven. We will rule with Christ 1000 years, but our home base is not Earth, but Heaven. Evidently, we will be able to travel back and forth as the angels do at the present time. All the details are not laid out before us, for the just must walk by faith. We must trust the Lord to work it all out for our benefit. We do know that he promised, "where I am, there ye may be also" (Jn. 14:3).

There will come a time that king David will be raised up and put back on his throne on Earth (Amos 9:11; Ezek. 37:24). Jer. 30:9 says, they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." Christ will rule first from Earth, then later from Heaven, and David will be a prince under Him. Ezek. 34:24 says, "I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them."

Right now, the wicked angels are still allowed access to Heaven and the heavenlies. Job 15:15 says, "the heavens are not clean in his sight."

This changes in the middle of the Tribulation. Rev. 12:7,8 says, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven." At that point, Heaven is clean, but the Earth is not yet clean.

Satan is allowed in Heaven now. Job 1:6-8 says, "Now there was a day when the sons of God (angels) came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

This gives us a glimpse of the Angelic Conflict. Man is being observed to prove a point to Satan. An attribute of God is perfect justice. Satan seems to have already been judged and sentenced to prison, but he must have appealed his sentence. Maybe he said something like, "How can a loving God consign his creatures to hell? Man may have been created to prove that God is just in putting the fallen angels in prison. It is easy for us to see that it would be unjust to those that obey if he did not.

The angels sinned being able to see God. If man, being created not being able to see God, could obey him anyway, God would be proved just in putting the fallen angels in prison. Man's test is to walk by faith not sight.

We may be replacing the fallen angels in God's government of the Universe. Who knows? I keep wondering if the number of saved among mankind will end up equal to the angels that fell. R.B. Thieme thinks that at Armageddon, each one of us will bump one demon. I couldn't prove it, but it does sound reasonable.

Rev. 19:11-20 gives us information concerning the return of the KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth JUDGE and make WAR....And the ARMIES which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it HE should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and HE treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God....And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make WAR against him that sat on the horse, AND AGAINST HIS ARMY. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet...These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth." At that time, we can't die, and it sounds like the Lord is taking care of things himself. What will we be doing?

Psa. 149:5-9 gives us an idea. It says, "Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron: TO EXECUTE UPON THEM THE JUDGMENT WRITTEN: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD."

As in Joshua's day, we come to a point where we have to "choose you this day whom ye will serve." I echo Joshua when he said, "as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" (Joshua 24:15).

We have wonderful promises of what Heaven will be like. For us, the Lord will wipe away all tears (Rev. 7:17; 21:4). That speaks volumes.

Rev. 21:4,5 says, "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new."

These things are coming true soon. We must keep the faith and walk as He would have us walk. Believers are on the winning side, and time is short.

Incoming Email

i spoke to you awhile ago, back in may, if you'll remember; i was using a friend's computer, not having one of my own then. the e-mail address was hatsedakis@aol.com. i was so bold as to tell you that i would prophesy that may 31 would come and go and you and i would still be here...well, i guess we are still here, right? how are you doing? did you take my advice and look, rather, into the 7th trumpet being (possibly) the last trumpet that paul spoke of? what have you been up to lately? as you can probably tell, i now have my own computer {YIPPIE!}. i have been online for a couple months now and kinda getting the swing of it i think. 51 years old and just getting started! yehaw........watch out cyber-space, here i come! have you checked out marv rosenthal's web page yet? he is a believing jew. i am giving you the...link here: http://www.zionshope.org/html/sitemap.html: ZION'S HOPE: Our web site index...Anyhow, i am always open for a good discussion or just good talk if you have the time and the inclination. my name is ... looking forward to hearing from you

My reply

Yes, we are still here. I think I missed it by one year. See
http://www.kiwi.net/~mjagee/pentecost1999.html for details.

You sure sound tickled to have a computer. I'm happy for you.

> what have you been up to lately?

Mainly, I have been taking care of my 74-year-old husband, who had a heart attack and 5-bypass open-heart surgery, studying the Bible, and answering email. Now, I am almost 70 and am taking on another swag and cascade drapery sewing job.

> did you take my advice and look, rather, into the 7th trumpet being
> (possibly) the last trumpet that paul spoke of?

To me, there is no possible way the 7th trumpet judgment could be the "trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16) at the Rapture. Those seven trumpets are sounded by angels (Rev. 8:2) and are the Wrath of God on unbelievers. When the 7th is sounded, we are in Heaven receiving our rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Rev. 11:15,18 says, "the seventh angel sounded...And the nations were angry (Israel is being attacked, and thy wrath is come (Ezek. 38:18), and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED, and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Here are two groups. One is in Heaven being rewarded. The other is on Earth called "them which destroy the earth." Are you in the group that "destroy the earth"? They are the ones upon whom the Wrath of God is poured.

I think the two Raptures (Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath) are prefigured by the two silver assembly trumpets. Num 10:2-4 says, Make thee two trumpets of silver...that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (both), ALL (as in I Cor. 15:51,52) the assembly shall assemble themselved to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes (12 of the elders of Rev. 4:4), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee." (The other 12 elders are the 12 apostles.)

I want to be caught up before the Tribulation, when the first trump sounds. I am "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Tit. 2:13). If we were to go through the seven trumpet judgments, that would not be a blessed hope at all.
Civilization as we know it will be destroyed. When "the second angel sounded...a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea" (the Mediterranean, Zeph. 2:4,5) (Rev. 8:8). When "the third angel sounded...there fell a great star (aster, star or asteroid) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp" (Rev. 8:10). The impact of these two pieces of an asteroid will cause such devastation that there will be a worldwide earthquake and every wall will fall (Ezek. 38:20); "the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left" (Isa. 24:6). The Earth will be turned upside down (Isa. 24:1). Do you plan to be on Earth at that time? Does that sound like a "blessed hope"?

> have you checked out marv rosenthal's web page yet?

No. However, I have read a quite a bit of what he has written.

Incoming Email

Re: parable of the barren fig tree:
Thank you for your response!!!! I enjoy your books, and especially this online site. In His love

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Updated 11-19-98