Pro and Con 219

Updated 11-22-98, PM

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...14th OR 15th?
...Most of the misunderstanding is due to a misconception of when Israel plundered Egypt and what day they left. Some believe that after God Cold Israel to "eat in haste" (Exo 12:11) and be ready to leave at a moments notice, after the meal they got undressed, went to bed, lounged around until the next day (the 15th), plundered the Egyptians, went home and then waited until night on the 16th and left. This is incorrect and a simple reading of Exo 11:2-3 and 12:35 will show that the Egyptians were plundered on the day before, the 14th!

***From Marilyn: I agree that they plundered the Egyptians on the 14th. Ex. 11:1,2 says, "the LORD said unto Moses, Yet will I bring one plague more upon Pharaoh...afterwards he will let you go hence; when he shall let you go, he shall surely thrust you out hence altogether. Speak NOW in the ears of the people, and let every man borrow of his neighbour."

***Ex. 12:29-37 says, "at midnight...Pharaoh...said, Rise up, and get you forth...And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste...And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders. And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels...And the children of Israel journeyed..." They borrowed with their kneadingtroughs on their shoulders on the 14th and "journeyed."

...Deuteronomy 16 tells us the Passover begins at the end of the 14th, not the beginning....

Others think that Jesus changed the night of observance. HE DID NOT, It was physically impossible for Him to observe the Passover that year on the 15th with the disciples, He would be in the tomb! Lets all realize a very important fact; if the Passover is on the 14th and not the 15th then JESUS WAS SACRIFICED ON THE WRONG DAY AND DID NOT FULFIL THE REQUIREMENTS!! If this is true then JESUS WAS NOT THE LAMB OF GOD!! Why do we always have to think we are smarter than God? The Bible says that Jesus died on the 14th and that it was the preparation day, NOT the Passover (John 19:14). That makes the 15th the Passover. Do you really think that God would plan this so carefully that Jesus died at the exact minute the lamb was sacrificed, but on the wrong day?...

***Jesus fulfilled all the requirements. He died as the Passover lambs were being slain at the temple. He was in the tomb when the Passover lambs were roasted and ready to be eaten as the first even of the 14th began. Lev. 23:5 says, "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover." This is the beginning of the only 12 hours of night that belong to Nisan 14. The only midnight of the 14th is six hours into the 12 hours of night that precede the 12 hours of day.

All of these misunderstandings can be cleared up if we simply let the Bible interpret itself. When does the Bible say Passover begins? Lev 23:5 "In the fourteenth day of the first month at EVEN is the LORD's passover." (KJV) The Passover begins at even. Is there another day that uses the same terminology to tell us when even is? Yes, lets look in the same chapter at Lev 23:27, "Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement..." (KJV) When does this day begin and end?
Lev 23:32 "It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at EVEN, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath." (KJV) That proves it, even means the END of the day, not the beginning.

***To me, it proves the opposite, that it is the beginning of the day, not the end. Lev. 23:32, given above, explains the parameters of the tenth. Its borders were the last even of the 9th and the last even of the 10th. Between them ran the entire date of the Nisan 10, first 12 hours of night, then 12 hours of day. Think about what it says about one special day: "in the ninth day of the month at even, FROM even UNTO even." Doesn't "FROM even UNTO even" embrace one date, Nisan 10? It begins at even as the 9th becomes the 10th and ends the following even as the 10th becomes the 11th.

There is no disagreement when the day of atonement begins. Everyone who observes it will fast from sundown on the 9th to sundown on the 10th. The next time someone tries to tell you that Passover is to be observed on the beginning of the 14th not the end, ask them why they don't observe atonement the same way!!

***He started out correctly. The Day of Atonement, Tishri 10, is from "sundown on the 9th to sundown on the 10th." That is right. Then he failed to apply the same kind of logic to Nisan 14, which would run from sundown on the 13th to sundown on the 14th. :-)

You see there really is no valid reason to observe passover 24 hours early at the end of the 13th other than TRADITION. Lets follow the Bible instead of the traditions of men....

***I believe the Bible indicates that the Passover is to be kept at sundown "at the end of the 13th," when the 14th begins.

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Thought this of interest: FWD: Feast of Shavuot - 7 Festivals Book, by Eddie Chumney

The period called "the omer" begins the day following the (weekly) sabbath during Passover (Pesach) and continues until Shavuot (Pentecost). The Torah commanded that seven weeks be counted from the time of the offering of the omer, as it says:

You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete [temimot] sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the day after the seventh sabbath; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord....(Leviticus [Vayikra] 23:15-17,21 NAS).

Because of this ritual of counting, the period between Passover (Pesach) and Pentecost (Shavuot) came to be known as the omer....

A sharp controversy existed between the rabbis and a variety of Jewish sects over the interpretation of the words "the day after the sabbath" in the verse commanding the counting of the omer. According to the rabbis, the sabbath refers not to the weekly sabbath, but rather to the first festival day of the Passover (Pesach). [This is Nisan 15, the first day of Unleavened Bread, which (G-d designated to be a high sabbath (shabbaton). Because of this, the counting of the omer traditionally begins from Nisan 15.] Various groups, beginning with the first-century Sadducees and continuing with the Karaites of the early Middle Ages, interpreted the word sabbath to mean the weekly sabbath during the Passover (Pesach) season. The implication of this interpretation is that Shavuot (Pentecost), which falls on the day after the omer count of 49 days, would always occur on a Sunday. [By understanding the resurrection of Yeshua, whom we saw as the First Fruits (Bikkurim) of the barley harvest in the previous chapter, we can see from this instance that the Sadducees' interpretation was correct even though most of their doctrine was not biblical (Acts23:8).]....This counting is done at night, as the new day begins at sundown, (6:00 p.m.)....

In the third month after the Jews left Egypt (Mitzrayim), they arrived in the Sinai desert and camped opposite Mount Sinai. Moses (Moshe) was then told by G-d to gather the Israelites together to receive the Torah (Exodus [Shemot] 19:1-8 NAS). The Israelites answered, "All that the Lord has spoken we will do!" In Hebrew, it is Na'aseh V'Nishmah, which means, "We agree to do even before we have listened."

Moses (Moshe) then gave the Jews two days to cleanse themselves, wash their clothes, and prepare to receive the Torah on the third day.

At the same time, Moses (Moshe) told them not to come too near Mount Sinai. From early morning, dense clouds covered the peak of the mountain. Thunder and lightning were frequently seen and heard. The sound of the shofar (ram's horn) came very strong, and the top of the mountain was enveloped in fire and smoke....

***From Marilyn: The ram's horn reminds me of Christ's trump, or the "trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16).

Pentecost (Shavuot) traditionally has been seen in different ways. One is to see it as the concluding piece of the Passover (Pesach) season. The other is to see it as an independent festival. Because Pentecost (Shavuot) celebrates the revelation of G-d at Mount Sinai, Pentecost (Shavout) would seem to be of a clearly independent nature. It is, after all, counted as one of the three pilgrimage festivals (Deuteronomy [Devarim] 16:16). Yet, beginning with the Targum (the Aramaic translation of the Scriptures from the second century of the Christian Era or Common Era (C.E.), known more commonly as A.D.), Pentecost (Shavuot) is referred to in the rabbinic tradition as Atzeret. The word atzeret in Hebrew means "conclusion." The word atzeret is used in the Bible with the festival Shemini Atzeret (Numbers [Bamidbar] 29:35) and seems to mean "remain with Me [G-d] another day." There is a sense, therefore, that atzeret is the final part or completion of a festival. Therefore, Shavuot (Pentecost) is seen as the conclusion to the Passover (Pesach) season. One strong connection between Passover (Pesach) and Shavuot (Pentecost) is the counting of the omer serving as a chain that links the two festivals.

Because Shavuot (Pentecost) culminates with the counting of the omer for 50 days (which should be done the day following the weekly sabbath during Passover [Pesach]), Shavuot (Pentecost) is called the Atzeret or conclusion to Passover (Pesach). Spiritually speaking (halacha), the believers in the Messiah Yeshua are on a journey out of Egypt (a type of the world's system and its evil ways) in the wilderness (of life), awaiting our time to meet G-d face to face on Mount Sinai (Exodus [Shemot] 3:12)....

Israel came to Mount Sinai on the third day of the third month (Exodus [Shemot] 19:1). The L-rd visited the people three days later (Exodus [Shemot] 19:10-17). Therefore, the Torah was given by G-d in the third month of the biblical religious calendar, which is the month of Sivan, on the sixth day of this month. This day is exactly 50 days from the crossing of the Red Sea.

Shavuot (Pentecost) is called the season of the giving of the Torah (Z'man Matan Toraseinu) in Hebrew because this is the literal day that G-d revealed Himself to the people of Israel as they stood at the base of Mount Sinai.

2. The giving of the Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) by G-d.
Yeshua was resurrected on the Feast of First Fruits (Bikkurim), as was seen in the previous chapter. Fifty days after the resurrection of Yeshua, the Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) came to dwell in the hearts and lives of all the believers in Yeshua (Acts 1:8; 2:1-18; Luke 24:49; Joel 2:28-29; Exodus [Shemot] 19:16; Isaiah [Yeshayahu] 44:3; Deuteronomy [Devarim] 16:5-6,16; 2 Kings 21:4)....

One of the most beautiful images of Shavuot (Pentecost) is that of the marriage between G-d (the groom) and Israel (the bride).

In the biblical wedding service that G-d gave (Romans 9:4; Hebrews 9:1; 1 Chronicles 28:11-12), marriage consisted of two stages. The first stage is betrothal, called erusin in Hebrew. You enter this first stage of marriage as soon as a betrothal contract (a shitre erusin) is made between the two parties. The written contract is called a ketubah. During betrothal, you are legally married, but do not physically dwell with your mate. Betrothal is so legally binding that you cannot get out of it without a divorce, called a get in Hebrew.

In fact, by understanding the Hebrew language, we can see how betrothal is legally binding. To G-d, Hebrew is the pure language (Zephaniah 3:9), and Hebrew will allow us to understand deeper spiritual truths in the Bible that would be more difficult to understand otherwise. The word for betrothal in Hebrew, erusin, comes from the Hebrew verb aras. Aras is related to the Hebrew word asar, which means "to bind." By this, we can see that the Hebrew language communicates to us that betrothal is legally binding.

MESSIANIC FULFILLEMENT: In the New Testament (Brit Hadashah), we can see that Joseph (Yosef) was betrothed to Mary (Miryam) when the angel Gabriel announced to Mary (Miryam) that she would have a son named Yeshua (Jesus), by the Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) of G-d, who would be the Messiah (Luke 1:26-35). When Joseph (Yosef) discovered that his betrothed (espoused) wife Mary (Miryam) was pregnant, he decided to get a divorce (get) until the angel of the L-rd changed his mind by appearing to him in a dream (Matthew [Mattityahu] 1:18-20).

Betrothal is mentioned in the Torah in Exodus (Shemot) 21:8; Leviticus (Vayikra) 19:20; Deuteronomy (Devarim) 20:7; 22:23. The second stage of marriage is the fullness or consummation of the marriage. This stage of marriage is called nesu'in.

The Bible tells us in Jeremiah (Yermiyahu) 2:2 that at Mount Sinai, G-d betrothed Himself to Israel, as it is written:

Go and cry in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the Lord; I remember thee, the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals, when thou wentest after Me in the wilderness, in a land that was not sown. Israel was holiness unto the Lord, and the firstfruits of His increase... (Jeremiah [Yermiyahu] 2:2-3)

In Exodus 19, when G-d by the leading of Moses (Moshe) brought the children of Israel to Mount Sinai, G-d betrothed Himself to Israel. On Mount Sinai, G-d gave the Torah to Israel (Exodus [Shemot] 20:1-21). At this time, G-d was making a betrothal contract, a ketubah, with Israel. The ketubah (or written betrothal contract, which is understood to be the Torah) represents "The book of the covenant" (marriage is a covenant) that Moses (Moshe) wrote prior to the revelation at Mount Sinai (Exodus [Shemot] 24:4,7). The Book of the Covenant spelled out mutual obligations of G-d and Israel just as the ketubah spelled out the obligations between husband and wife. So, G-d made a marriage contract with Israel in Exodus (Shemot) 19:3-7.

In Exodus (Shemot) 19:8, Israel accepts G-d's marriage proposal. Israel answered in Exodus (Shemot) 19:8, "All that the Lord hath spoken we will do" (Na'aseh V'Nishmah -- we agree to do even before we have listened).

In Exodus (Shemot) 19:2, Israel camped before the L-rd. The word camp in Hebrew is chanah and in this case is singular, while Israel is plural. By this we can see that at that time all Israel had become one. This is also a necessary requirement for marriage (Genesis [Bereishit] 2:24; Ephesians 5:31).

The biblical wedding ceremony that G-d gave requires that the marriage be consummated under a wedding canopy known as a chupah. In Exodus (Shemot) 19:17, Moses (Moshe) brought forth the people out of the camp to meet G-d and they stood at the nether part of the mount. The word nether in Hebrew actually implies that the people stood underneath the mountain. This imagery gives the understanding that the mountain had become a chupah and Israel was standing underneath the mountain or under the chupah, the place where the wedding takes place.

***Since Sinai represents Heaven, Israel standing underneath the mountain makes sense.

Every wedding will have two witnesses. They are called the friends of the bridegroom. One is assigned to the groom and one is assigned to the bride. In Exodus (Shemot) 19:17, Moses (Moshe) is seen as one of the two witnesses whose job is to escort the bride to meet the groom under the chupah (Mount Sinai). In order for the ketubah, the written contract between the husband and the wife, to be legal in consummating the marriage, it must be signed by the two witnesses, the friends of the bridegroom. Since we can see that Moses (Moshe) was one of the two witnesses, he had to sign the Ketubah (Torah) in order for the full marriage between G-d and Israel to be consummated.

***Then I take it that the two witnesses of Rev. 11, Moses and Elijah, must be in Heaven before the Marriage of the Lamb takes place.

However, when Moses (Moshe) returned from being with G-d on Mount Sinai, he did not sign the Ketubah (Torah). Instead he broke the two tablets (ketubah), which were in his right hand (Exodus [Shemot] 32:19), thus not signing the ketubah which G-d had made with Israel. Therefore, he did not allow Israel to enter into the full marriage. Moses (Moshe) broke the two tablets (ketubah) when he saw that Israel was worshiping the golden calf and thus were being unfaithful in their marriage.

What does the wedding mean in terms of the Messiah Yeshua, and what is the personal application (halacha) to us? Messiah Yeshua is the groom and the believers in the Messiah are the bride. When Yeshua came to the earth almost 2,000 years ago, He came so that whosoever would put their trust and confidence (emunah) in Him would be wedded to Him forever. This would include both Jews and non-Jews (John [Yochanan] 3:16)....Today, Yeshua does not physically dwell with those who trust in Him. Therefore, the believers in the Messiah Yeshua are currently spiritually betrothed to Him. We will enter the full marriage and physically dwell with Him during the Messianic age known as the Millennium. However, before we can physically dwell with the Messiah during the Messianic age on earth, the wedding ceremony when the believers in the Messiah Yeshua will be wedded to Him must take place. This will take place at the beginning of the tribulation period known in Hebrew as the Chevlai shel Mashiach the birth-pangs of the Messiah.

***I think it will take place on Rosh HaShannah, The Feast of Trumpets, the 2300th day of the Tribulation.

In the biblical wedding service that G-d gave, after you are married, you have a honeymoon. The honeymoon lasts a week and is known as the seven days of the chupah. Seven days equals a week. In Hebrew, a week means a seven. It can mean seven days or seven years (Daniel 9:24-27;Genesis [Bereishit] 29:27).

***I think it could be seven months (Ezek. 39:12).

In Joel (Yoel) 2:16, we see the marriage of the bride (the believers in Yeshua) and the bridegroom (Yeshua) where the bridegroom is going forth from the chamber and the bride out of her closet. The word closet is the Hebrew word chupah, and the chupah here refers to Heaven where the previously raptured (natzal) believers in the Messiah have been enjoying a seven-year honeymoon with Him while the earth was experiencing the tribulation....

Once again in Exodus 19:19, a trumpet (shofar) was sounded. This trumpet (shofar) grew louder and louder. The Jewish writings understand this to be the first trump (shofar) of G-d. The trumpet blown by G-d at Mount Sinai was understood to be the first of the two ram's horns that were present on Mount Moriah during Abraham's (Avraham) sacrifice of Isaac (Yitzchak) in Genesis 22.

The Jewish people understood that there are three primary trumpets (shofarim) that mark major events in the redemptive plan of G-d. These three trumpets are known as the first trump, the last trump, and the great trumpet. Genesis (Bereishit) 22 is one of the most important Torah readings to the Jewish people. In some Jewish circles, it is read every day of the week except for the sabbath. It is also the primary Torah reading for Rosh HaShanah. The theme of the chapter includes the binding of Isaac on the altar, known in Hebrew as the Akeidah, in addition to the phrase "to be seen." The key verse concerning the phrase "to be seen" is Genesis (Bereishit) 22:14, as it is written, "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh [the L-rd will see or provide]: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen." Genesis (Bereishit) 22:4 says, "Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off."...

Once again, relating to the story in Genesis 22, the left horn of the ram that was caught in the thicket (Genesis [Bereishit] 22:13) is called the first trump (shofar) and the right horn of the ram is called the last trump (shofar).

The three great trumpets (shofarim) that mark major events inthe redemptive plan of G-d are associated with days in the biblical calendar. The first trump is associated with and was blown by G-d on the Feast of Shavuot (Pentecost) when G-d gave the Torah to the Jewish people at Mount Sinai (Exodus [Shemot] 19:19).

The last trump is associated with and is blown on Rosh HaShanah....The biblical name for Rosh HaShanah is Yom Teruah, which in Hebrew means "the day of the awakening blast." This trump (shofar) is mentioned by the apostle Paul (Rav Sha'ul) in First Corinthians 15:51-53. Because the last trump is only blown on Rosh HaShanah and because the apostle Paul (Rav Sha'ul) specifically mentions that the rapture (natzal) of the believers in Yeshua the Messiah will take place at the last trump, the apostle Paul (Rav Sha'ul) was giving a clear understanding that the rapture of the believers in Messiah will happen on a Rosh HaShanah.

***From Marilyn: I think the first trump is the Pre-Trib Rapture on Pentecost, and the last trump is the Pre-Wrath Rapture on Rosh HaShanah.

...the first and last trump will relate to the ram's horn in Genesis (Bereishit) 22. Again, the first trump (shofar) will be the left horn of the ram and the last trump (shofar) will be the right horn of the ram. In Exodus (Shemot) 19:19, the trumpet (shofar) that was blown by G-d will be the first trump.

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I am writing to you with a question from a friend who does not have internet access. I recommended your book The End of the Age to him and he is about half way thru the book and he is really enjoying it. He ask me a question about the birth of Jesus so I'm passing the question on to you for an answer. Your book states that Jesus was born on Tishri 1 in A.H. 4039 which is our 5 B.C.If Jesus was crusified in 30 A.D.the numbers don't add up in my friends thinking. Could you explain how the 33 1/2 years of Jesus life fit between his birth and death dates. To him it looks like 35 years between or 34 if you don't count the zero year. Thanks for your help. I will print a copy of your reply and give it to my friend at church. May God Bless You

My reply

I think Jesus was born on Tishri 1 in BC 5 and died on Nisan 13 in 30 AD. To figure from Tishri 1 in BC 5 to Tishri 1 in 30 AD, we would say 30 + 5 - 1 (because of no zero year) = 34. Because Nisan is 6 months before Tishri, we have to subtract half a year, so we end up with 33 1/2 years.

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Re: Hang in there: Wow. What a surprise to get a message from you.

I've kept up with your web site. You haven't let up at are really devoted, Marilyn.

Refresh my memory. Just where in the Bible does it say that we get raptured before the last seven years? Marilyn, I can't find it. You always make the point that we should check it out in scripture. I have and I can't find it. It isn't there. One has to infer it. That makes me nervous to infer something that it that important.

Can you help me? Please back it up with scripture. Thanks.

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The Revelation of Jesus Christ is written as if the Rapture is at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). Jesus signs off with, "Surely I come quickly." He does not come quickly at the Second Advent because every eye will see him. The time when he comes quickly is to catch away his Bride so she will not go through the trial that is coming upon the whole world.

Rev. 3:10,11 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will KEEP THEE FROM (ek, Green's Interlinear: out of) the hour of temptation (pierasmou, trial), which shall come (Green: is about to come) upon ALL THE WORLD, to try (pierasai) them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."

John played out the Rapture in Rev. 4:1, when he was told, "Come up hither." Then he was told what was to come "hereafter," i.e., after the Rapture. The Tribulation starts afterward, in Rev. 6. Before that, in Rev. 5:9, we see in Heaven a group "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." They are singing "a new song." In the song, they say, "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals." When the first seal is opened, the Tribulation begins. This group is in Heaven BEFORE the first seal is opened.

In the Lord's prayer, Jesus said to pray, "And lead us NOT into temptation (pierasmon, trial), but deliver (rhusai, to rush or draw to one's self, to rescue) us from evil" (Mt. 6:13).

Isa. 57:1-3 says, "THE righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are TAKEN AWAY (acaph, to gather, remove, fetch, take up, take away, i.e., raptured), none considering that the righteous is TAKEN AWAY FROM THE EVIL (Tribulation, trial) TO COME. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness. But draw near hither (i.e., the Tribulation is near), ye sons of the sorceress (the harlot of Rev. 17), the seed of the adulterer and the whore."

Added 11-22-98: Note: Isa. 57:1,2 in the Berkeley Version says, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN PERISHES and nobody cares; godly men are SNATCHED AWAY, while no one lays it to heart that the righteous man is TAKEN AWAY BEFORE CALAMITY COMES; he enters peace." That "SNATCHED AWAY" sure sounds like the Rapture, and they are taken away before the calamity, i.e., the Tribulation. II Thess. 2:4 literally says that the day of the Lord (the Millennium) "shall not come, except there come a falling away ("he apostasia," the departure, departing, as when separating in "apostacion," divorce) FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition." We are the salt that retards the growth of leaven. The Holy Spirit is hindering the revelation of the son of perdition until we are out of the way. "And then shall that Wicked be revealed" (II Thess 2:8). He will be revealed as he signs the seven-year peace treaty as the Tribulation begins.

"He apostasia" means "the departure" and was so translated in early versions, including The Geneva Bible, Tyndale's translation, Cranmer's version, the Great Bible, Breecher's Bible, Beza's translation and the Coverdale Bible.

This has been understood for a long time. Between 374 and 627 AD, Pseudo-Ephraem wrote, "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together BEFORE THE TRIBULATION, which is to come, and ARE TAKEN TO THE LORD, in order that thy may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins."

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 11-22-98