Pro and Con 228

Uploaded 12-11-98, PM

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Hebraic.Heritage.Newsgroup
VATICAN CALLS FOR SPECIAL STATUS FOR JERUSALEM, Reuters via IsraelWire-10/27
Vatican Foreign Minister Archbishop Jean-Louis Tauran said on Monday Jerusalem was too sacred for its future tobe decided only by Israelis and the PLO Authority (PA). "The Holy See believes in the importance of extending the representation at the negotiating table in order to be sure that no aspect of the problems is overlooked and to affirm that the whole international community is responsible for the uniqueness and the sacredness of this incomparable city," Tauran said.

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It is interesting to read the accounts of people to whom the Lord has spoken that they shall not see death before the rapture. Most of the time the Lord speaks to me through reading the scriptures. The Holy Spirit emphasizes certain passages as I'm reading, as if to say, "This means you."

Several years ago such a scripture was made real, as being for me, Psalm 118:17, "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord." Since then I've been confident that I'll survive until the rapture, which hopefully is only a few months away at this point. What a wonderful day that shall be! God bless.

My reply

How encouraging, and you are doing your best to declare the works of the Lord. You are earning rewards--sending treasures on to Heaven. That's where our hearts are. That's our eternal home.

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If I'm not mistaken, Jesus said no one could foretell when the day of the Lord would occur and that only the Father knew the exact day. May I ask you why God would decide to finally change His mind and let mankind in on His secret?

My reply

Mt. 24:36 says, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." The word "knoweth" is present tense. No one knew when the Rapture would occur on that particular day. Jesus did not say that no one would ever know. The Sign of the End of the Age, when Israel grew leaves in the Six-Day War of 1967 made the difference. It was what we were to watch for.

BTW, the Rapture is the Day of Christ. The Day of the Lord is the Millennium. I hope I interpreted the intent of your question correctly.

I am hoping for the Rapture next Pentecost.

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Thanks so much for your chronology page. I hope you don't mind if I advertise it. I too agree generally and fundamentally with Anstey that the 1st of Cyrus was 454-455BC. I have a few revisions as far as some other dates, but in general everything is the same.

Recent astronomical evidence now supports directly Anstey's fundamental chronology and exposes a comprehensive conspiracy during the Seleucid Period to change astronomical texts in order to add the 82 years to Persian history.

You can find a serious of astrographs which outline the conspiracy and establish the fall of Jerusalem in 529BCE at the following website:

"http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/6322/mygifs.htm"

I hope you enjoy the graphics and please E-mail me if you have any questions.

Thanks, again, for your wonderful and clear review of chronology!
Best regards, Gary LaMotta

My reply

You have done some good work on Bible Chronology....

After all your considerable hard work in trying to unravel the chronology of the Bible, I am surprised that you listen to what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach. You seem too careful for that. You pay attention to detail. You believe that Jesus Christ came when the Bible prophesied that he would. You believe that he was crucified, but there is one thing that the Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong about. They don't know who Jesus Christ really is. They think they do, but they don't. And it is crucial.

I hope you are open minded. May I bring some scriptures to your attention in God's agape love? I'll use the New World Translation and the Emphatic Diaglott, translated by Wilson. My comments are in parentheses. The bracket are in the NWT.

Why is it crucial to understand who Christ really is?
In John 8:23-28, Jesus said, "I am from the realms above (Heaven)...Therefore I said to you, you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he (the Father), you will die in your sins...They did not grasp that he was talking to them about the Father. Therefore Jesus said: 'When once YOU have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he" (the Father).

What is "the sacred secret of God"?
Col. 1:19,20; 2:2-9,18; 3:17 , "God saw good for all fullness to dwell in him (Christ, and through him to reconcile again to himself (God) all [other] things by making peace through the blood [he shed]...the sacred secret of God, namely, Christ. Carefully concealed in him (Christ) are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge. This I am saying that no man may delude you with persuasive arguments....Christ...in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily....God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself....Let no man deprive you of the prize (the Rapture) who takes delight in...a form of worship of the angels....do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus (Gr., Kuriou Iesou, Jehovah Jesus), thanking God the Father through him." Hebrews 2:5 adds, "For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come."

Who is the Logos?
John 1:1, in the Emphatic Diaglott, the English translation says, "In the Beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was with GOD, and the LOGOS was God." The Greek of the last part says, "kai (and) Theos (God) en (was) o (the) Logos (Word)."

Colwell's Rule of Greek Grammar says, "A definite predicate nominative takes the article when it follows the verb, it does not do so when it precedes the verb as in John 1:1.

Who is the arm of Jehovah?
Isa. 40:10 says, "Look! The Lord Jehovah himself will come even as a strong one, and his arm will be ruling for him." Isa. 53:1,5 adds, "the arm of Jehovah...pierced for our transgression."

In Rev. 22:16, Jesus said, "I, Jesus...I am the root (Jehovah) and the offspring of David (Jesus)." The last verse ends the Bible with this: "[May] the undeserved kindness of the Lord (Gr., Kuriou, Jehovah) Jesus Christ [be] with the holy ones." The Lord Jesus Christ is Jehovah Jesus Christ.

Isa. 44:6 says, "This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, I am the first (Jehovah King of Israel) and I am the last" (the Repurchaser, Jehovah of armies, i.e., Jehovah Jesus Christ).

Mt. 1:21,23 says, "you must call his name Jesus...and they will call his name Immanuel,' which means, when translated, 'With Us Is God.'"

"So the Word became flesh and resided among us" (John 1:14).

John the Baptist said, "I am a voice of someone crying out in the wilderness, 'MAKE the way of Jehovah straight,' just as Isaiah the prophet said'" (John 1:23). He was talking about the Lord Jesus Christ, Jehovah Jesus Christ. Christ is Lord.

Gary, I am praying for you. Father, I pray that you will open the eyes of Gary LaMotta's understanding. Help him to see that you were in Christ reconciling the world unto yourself. Help him to pray and tell you that he accepts Christ as his Saviour with full understanding of who he really is, YHVHshua, which means Jehovah is Saviour, Y'shua, Iesous, Jesus. In His wonderful name, Amen.

His reply

> After all your considerable hard work in trying to unravel the chronology of the Bible,
> I am surprised that you listen to what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach.

I don't really, not on everything.

> You seem too careful for that. You pay attention to detail. You believe that Jesus
> Christ came when the Bible prophesied that he would. You believe that he was crucified,
> but there is one thing that the Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong about. They don't know
> who Jesus Christ really is. They think they do, but they don't. And it is crucial.
>
> I hope you are open minded. May I bring some scriptures to your attention in God's agape
> love?

Thanks for this time you have given to share these scriptures with me and I will consider them again, carefully. Especially John 8:23.

Thanks, again, for your chronology site and your kind words and your prayer. God certainly is bleesing you.

I hope you don't mind if I consider this information and get back to you. Of course, after I wrote you I realized you were Marilyn instead of "Mr." but you must get that alot. Who says men are so smart anyway? (smile) You obviously have an edge here, with a lot of love behind it.

God's blessing to you, and thanks for your wonderful note. I'm certainly inspired by it!
Cheers, Gary

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Thank you for replying to my questions.It has confirmed what I suspected all along....

I live in an Islamic country.
The non Moslems are being blasted with the lies of Islam.
I feel the West has destroyed and given a bad name to Christianity.They live like pagans if not worse off.Look at racism, there is absolutely no need for that.If there was true Christianity in the West or in America or South Africa there wouldn't be so much pain and suffering.Only the love of Jesus would shine forth through every one. The people here are propagating Islam with increased zeal and fervor.They know that the West is spiritually starved.That's why people from the West even go to India to get Idol worshipper's spirituality. In actual truth Christianity is not the largest religion in the world , it is one of the smallest(counting by the actual no.of followers).Also there will be only 144,000 perfect persons in Zion and New Jerusalem. I have read the testimony of former moslems who have become christians, they claim Islam is all lies.Anyway the Moslems have so much proof to counter our arguments about the divinity of Christ.

All along I thank you for your co operation.May the Almighty shower blessings on you for doing his will.I pray that you too will be seen when the trumpet is blown for the gathering of the saints. By his Grace

My reply

> there will be only 144,000 perfect persons in Zion and New Jerusalem.

The 144,000 will be part of a much larger group. Rev. 7:9 says, "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne."

> about the divinity of Christ.

II Cor. 5:19 says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."

Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first (Lord of the Old Testament) and the last (Lord of the New Testament)....I am the root (YHVH) and the offspring of David (Jesus)" (Rev. 22:13,16).

Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH) the King of Israel, AND his redeemer (Christ) the LORD (YHVH) of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

I can give you a lot more on this if you need it.

See you in glory.

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Re: Contradiction
Marilyn, in Exodus 33:20 God told Moses 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me and live.

Yet Jacob said in Genesis 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

How can you reconcile these two statements which are at odds with each other? Regards

My reply

There is no contradiction. The Son of God was the one who dealt with Jacob. The clue is in Gen. 33:24: "Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled A MAN with him until the breaking of the day." This "man" was the angel of the Lord, the preincarnate Son of God.

Remember how Abraham "looked, and, lo, three men stood by him" (Gen. 18:2)? One of these was the LORD (YHVH). Two "angels" (Gen. 19:1) appearing as "men" (Gen. 19:10) went to get Lot out of Sodom, "but Abraham stood yet before the LORD (YHVH)."

Remember how "the LORD (YHVH) spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend" (Ex. 33:11)? yet, when Moses said, "I beseech thee, shew me thy glory" (Ex. 33:18), the LORD (YHVH) said, "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."

God, the Father, is spirit (Jn. 4:24) and cannot be seen by man face to face. However, our Elohim is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Mt. 28:19 says, "baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." When we get to Heaven, we will still see God in the face of the Son, just as Jacob, Moses and Abraham did. Rev. 22:3,4 says, "the throne (one throne) of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his (singular) servants shall serve him (singular): And they shall see his face (one face); and his name shall be in their foreheads."

In Rev. 1:8, Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omege, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." In Rev. 22:13, he said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first (Lord of the Old Testament) and the last (Lord of the New Testament)." In verse 16, he said, "I am the root (YHVH) and the offspring of David (Jesus)." II Cor. 5:19 explains: "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."

This was taught in the Old Testament as well. Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH) the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD (YHVH) of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Isa. 48:16,17 makes the Godhead clear. The preincarnate Christ is speaking: "Come ye near unto ME, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (Elohim), and his Spirit, hath sent ME. Thus saith the LORD (YHVH), thy Redeemer (Christ), the Holy One of Israel: I am the LORD (YHVH) thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go." The Son of God always was the main one that dealt with man.

"GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son (lit., in Son), whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds (ages); Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high" (Heb. 1:1-3).

Christ is "the arm of the LORD (YHVH)" who "was wounded for our transgressions" in Isa. 53:1,5.

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Lester Sumrall prophecy: Jim Bramlett
Lester Sumrall was an evangelist/missionary and great servant of the Lord who died quite a few years ago. He had a strong deliverance ministry, and became well known in the Philippines when God used him to set free a severely demon-possessed girl who was a prison inmate several decades ago, and others.

Yesterday, a well-informed a friend told me that before his death, Sumrall prophesied that Jesus would return for His church not more than 100 years from the time the Holy Spirit was first poured out in America. "That date was midnight 1899 in Topeka, Kansas. Read 'Fire on Azuza Street,'" my friend said.

That 1899 date may be controversial by a few years either way, but if it is documented in the book (which I have not checked) we should take it seriously.

If anyone knows anything else about this reported Sumrall prophecy, please let me know.
bramlett@magicnet.net

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FWD:...Gregorian Calendar Problem Re-Surfaces in the Year 2000
SAN JOSE, Calif., Dec. 10 /PRNewswire/ -- In 1582 Pope Gregory XIII planted a bug which foils computer programmers even today. That bug was the leap year2000.
...Pope Gregory XIII eliminated the 11 minute, 14 second error in the Julian calendar by giving February an extra day in certain century years. The first two of those leap centuries were 1600 and 2000....

Calculating Leap Year...
1. Divide by 4 and if the REMAINDER is 0 then it is a leap year unless,
2. Divide by 100 and if the REMAINDER is 0 then it is NOT a leap year unless,
3. Divide by 400 and if the REMAINDER is 0 then it is a leap year.

"Most people know the 'divide by 4' rule. Some programmers implemented the
divide by 100 rule. But from our experience none of those implemented the
'divide by 400' rule," stated Jim Brady, Chief Technologist and co-founder of
MatriDigm....leap year confusion adds another twist in the already complicated Y2K
computer problem....

My reply

Thanks. I don't remember ever hearing how to figure leap years except dividing by 4.

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Hey; in regard to your letters which I have read lately; don't feel alone. I am a victim of a robbery in my apartment last Spring; and I along with 13 other victims in apartments in the area robbed by the same guy are waiting still for restitution agreed on in court recently. And our place has been robbed over and over again since then. Police protection on our block is poor at best. So I kinda know how you feel.

Well; anyway, I'm sure glad that God himself can strengthen us with His angels whenever it is in His will to do so; that way we feel as though we are in heaven; when we are still on earth. (ever feel that way???)

May you and yours enjoy renewed health, and may you and your husband be able to experience those things which I have written about in your marriage in accordance with His will. If Satan can bring such false joys and hope to peoples' hearts; God always does a "one up" on Him. Sometimes it seems too good to be true; but God is a rewarder of those who do His will; in due season. I'm just stating that I feel his love and rewards are already being given in increasing measure as His coming approaches; even though in this world we have to slog through increasing junk everyday and we indeed seem like fools to hope while the whole world focuses on problems of money; the year 2000 bug; war; etc. Another fool for Christ

My reply

Thanks for your good wishes. No, I don't often feel like I'm in Heaven. I am conscious of being tested just about every step of the way. However, I do have inner peace in the midst of all that is thrown my way. I know I won't give up. I know I'll continue to do the best I can. If I can't take a big step, I'll take a small step and keep going. If I am knocked down, I'll get up. I know that I am exceptionally strong spiritually. Does anything else really matter in the long run? I know that we are on the winning side. These problems we face today will pale into insignificance later on. We can't be shortsighted now.

I love your "God always does a "one up" on Him." That put a smile on my face. I'm sure he does, one way or another. When he thinks he is winning, he is really losing. Think of the Crucifixion, his really big boo-boo. :-)

I think the Lord is proving a point to him by allowing us to be tested. Remember Job. We have to keep in mind that the Lord promised not to allow more to be put on us than we could bear.

I had this demonstrated to me physically when I fainted twice when muscle spasms caused more pain than I could stand, once when I ate a taco, another time when I drank 8 oz. of milk. (I am sensitive to the nightshade family of foods, especially peppers, and allergic to milk.) The merciful Lord put me beyond feeling it when I was desperate, and fainting let the knotted muscles relax.

Jesus said that he would never leave us. We have to remember that. He is with us every moment. He knows what is going on. He monitors our pain, of whatever kind it is, and our reaction to it. There is a point of release. He that is within us is stronger than he that is in the world. We are not walking alone. We do not have to fear. We are part of something a lot bigger than we are. If we live for the future, the present does not get the best of us. The Lord will see us through.

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Re: Back from Israel
Well, Bless God we made it back home safely. Thanks for your prayers. I did my best to get a straight answer regarding your questions from Song of Solomon (wheat harvest, etc) but a straight answer is hard to get. I think one of the problems is that Israel, like the US, is able to manipulate the growing seasons to some degree. I was told by our guide that the wheat harvest ends "around the end of May" and the barley harvest "around the middle of June". He thought that the turtledoves, green figs, etc are around at Pentecost. I have also searched everything I could find on the web and could not come up with anything. As for the wildflowers--our guide assumed we are talking about the Rose of Sharon. Could not nail down an answer for when they dry up but I can tell you that we were there during the raining season and never saw a drop of rain. It just started raining there today. Our guide stated that he believed the turtledoves are there from April to October. The weather is certainly nice enough.

One interesting thing I did learn is about the olive trees. They are harvested by laying a cloth all around the tree and shaking the olives down. Then they are gathered up in the cloth. Olives have to be "cured" for 6 months in water and olive oil before they are edible. The olive harvest was just ended when I was there (11/23 to 12/2). The olives are crushed under a large circular stone and then placed in a press. The first pressing (extra virgin) went to the Temple, the second for cooking, and the rest for lamps etc.

  I will write more this weekend but I wanted to get this back to you. Have interesting info on Ron Wyatt. Love and prayers

My reply

What an interesting email. I sure appreciate your asking those questions. We had an olive tree in our front yard in La Mirada, CA. The area had been an olive orchard. Ours died and was replaced with Jacaranda but the neighbors all around had them in their yards. I never heard anyone say that they used the olives. What a waste, but they probably had no idea how to cure them. I didn't.

> the wheat harvest ends "around the end of May"
> turtledoves, green figs, etc are around at Pentecost.

Great. Thanks for letting me know. I'm eager to hear more.

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I just a had quick question about the length of a generation. I looked up the definition of generation in my biblical PC Bible dictionary, and here's what I found:

GENERATION
A word with two distinct meanings in the Bible:
1. A body of people who live at the same time in a given period of history. Generation is used in this sense in, for example, , where Moses calls his contemporaries "a perverse and crooked generation." Applied in this way, generation is roughly synonymous with the word age, as in this sentence: "Our age is characterized by its love of technology" See 2. A single succession, made up of a set of individuals who share a common ancestor, in the line of descent. In this sense , the word generation usually occurs when the Bible gives a genealogical or historical account of a family or tribe. , for instance, is the account of Beerah, his brothers, and "the genealogy of their generations."
While generation is sometimes used in the Bible to indicate a more or less specific span of time , the word is far more frequently applied in an indefinite way. So it is best to avoid forcing our English understanding of generation (the average period of time between the birth of a parent and the birth of his firstborn child, about 25-30 years) upon the word as it is used in the Bible.
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary) (Copyright (C) 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

I've also talked with my pastor and he thinks that a generation could be 70, due to the fact that a man is given a lifespan of 3 score and 10, but I can't find a reference for this. I am going to ask him what verse he got this from if we're still here on Sunday. I tend to agree with the 40 years, but was wondering what your thoughts are on this. I heard Jack Van Impe reference Psalm 95:10:

Ps 95:10
"For forty years I loathed {that} generation, and said they are a people who err in their heart, and they do not know My ways." (NAS)

But to me this says for 40 years he loathed that generation, not that a generation is 40 years. Is there another reference that points to the fact that a generation is 40 years?

Thanks for all the great info you have! In Christ!

My reply

...The number 40 means testing and probation. Jesus was tempted 40 days. Saul, David and Solomon were each tested as king 40 years. They searched the land 40 days.

There are several places similar to Psa. 95:10, enough to drum it into us to consider 40 years as a generation. For instance, Nu. 14:33,34: "And your children shall wander in the wilderness FORTY YEARS, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness. After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years."

Num. 32:13 says, "And the LORD'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness FORTY YEARS, until all THE GENERATION, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed."

Joshua 5:6 SAYS, "For the children of Israel walked FORTY YEARS in the wilderness, till ALL the people that were men of war (20 years old and upward), which came out of Egypt, were consumed." These people are the same as "the generation" above.

Acts 7:38 refers to the Israelites as "the church in the wilderness" to help us make the proper connection. Today, both Israel and the church are going through a kind of forty-year wilderness experience, a special time of testing and probation before the Millennium begins.

Heb. 3:7-10 says, "TO DAY if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted and proved me, and saw my works FORTY YEARS. Wherefore I was grieved with THAT GENERATION..."

However, what really tells it to me is Mt. 23:36. Jesus told the Pharisees, "Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon THIS GENERATION." Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed 40 years later, in 70 AD.

> my pastor and he thinks that a generation could be 70

That is a lifetime, not a generation. A generation is when the next generation is born, roughly when the mother is between 20 and 40. Seventy is not reasonable. Webster's has 33.

Hope this helps.

Incoming Email from the above

PS: Length of Generation addendum
Of course after I sent out my last email, I found the reference:

Ps 90:10
As for the days of our life, they contain seventy years, or if due to strength, eighty years, yet their pride is {but} labor and sorrow; for soon it is gone and we fly away. (NAS)

Still doesn't say that this is how long a generation is, just a lifespan...

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 12-11-98