Pro and Con 229

Uploaded 12-15-98, AM

Incoming Email

From: Manila, Philippines
Madam, For all those wonderful things you've done for all of us reading your web page, we just can't say anything to show our deep gratitude for all of your efforts. To thank you is not enough i guess. But on such a very special day as this, i just would like to greet you a very Happy Birthday.

Your book about prophecy was the one which God used to open my eyes to the truth. Definitely, your study has greatly affected the lives of other people besides me. Please continue your good work and may the Lord God richly bless you always for your wonderful ministry. Once again, Happy Birthday.

"I thank my God upon every remembrance of you." (Philippians 1:3) In Christ

My reply

Thank you. That's a very nice sentiment. It is rewarding to know that my work is helpful. That is steam that helps this train keep going.

Note: Thanks to all the others wishing me Happy Birthday too.

Incoming Email

FWD: part of letter written by Thomas S. McCall, Th.D., that started appearing in the May 1994 Levitt Letter Zola Levitt Ministeries.

The modern miracle of the restoration of Israel, although mostly in unbelief, is but the prelude of even more climactic developments. A brief outline of the events the Lord has revealed in the Bible is as follows:

The Rapture of the true Church, our Blessed Hope
The War of Gog and Magog
Antichrist's Contract with Israel (7-Year Tribulation)
The Abomination of Desolation
The War of Armageddon
The Salvation of Israel & Judgment of the Nations
The Millennial Reign of Christ
The Great White Throne Judgment
The New Heaven, New Earth and New Jerusalem

My reply

My list would differ in some places. The first difference would be the placement of the War of Gog and Magog. In Ezek. 38:18, the Lord says, "my fury shall come up in my face." I think this is the 2300th day of the Tribulation, the Day of God's Wrath, the day the seven trumpet judgments are cast on Earth.

Look what happens as the second trumpet sounds. A "great mountain (asteroid) burning with fire was cast into the sea (the Mediterranean, Zeph. 2:4,5). Notice what happens as the third trumpet is blown. There "fell a great star (aster, asteroid) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp." This is probably a binary asteroid that breaks into two pieces as it hits the Roche Limit on the way in.

Both asteroid impacts have a part in the events described in Ezek. 38:19,20. They cause a worldwide earthquake. This passage says, "For in my jealousy and in the FIRE OF MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (translated 'sight' in Eze. 36:31, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man is seen), and the mountains (asteroids) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."

The next place of disagreement is the placement of Armageddon. It has to follow the return of Christ (Rev. 19:11,19-21).

The Salvation of Israel is not at the same time as the Judgment of the Nations. Israel is born in a day when the asteroid impact in the Mediterranean stops the invading army under Gog. The Judgment of the Nations is after the Second Advent.

The other difference is that I think the new heaven and new Earth follow the return of Christ. The Earth is ruined by the asteroid impacts. Civilization as we know it is destroyed. Christ will refresh the Earth as he did in the Garden of Eden. The new heaven that is refreshed is the atmosphere. II Pet. 3:12,13 says, "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God (the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord), wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for NEW HEAVENS AND A NEW EARTH, wherein dwelleth righteousness." I think this is the Millennium.

Incoming Email

I'm very happy and thankful to be a part of this interactive website and also to receive the edification from not only you but all the other beutiful people here.

In a quiet response to an earlier e-mail I read, I beleive the temple has been being built, but not a physical temple but a spiritual one. I also beleive that the anti-christ has been at work for some time. I also believe that Jesus will come in the middle right on time in the 4th watch and immediatly we will be on the other side Mt.14:22-34. Gennesaret = PARADISE. BLESSING

My reply

I am glad you like the interactive part. We can all learn from one another. No one knows it all. Each is given insight in different areas. I like your idea about the 4th watch. It makes good sense. I looked up what Gennesaret means--the garden of the prince. That fits very well. There was an earthly garden and also a heavenly garden. The earthly one was given to Adam. The heavenly one belongs to Christ.

We are the spiritual temple of the Holy Spirit. When we are gone, the physical temple will be raised up.

You are probably right about the antichrist. He must be rising because we are so close to the Rapture, next Pentecost, I hope.

Incoming Email

Bridges for peace: Clarence H. Wagner, Jr., International Dir. - Jerusalem: 11 Dec 98 OIL EXPLORATION IN ISRAEL
"The Givat Olam Oil Exploration Company redrilled a well near Rosh HaAyin to confirm the presence of oil in the area. A huge gas flame, more than seven meters high, shot from the well, confirming the presence of gas or oil.
"Tests will be done over the next few days to determine the quality of the gas or oil. In addition, Givat Olam is trying to raise NIS 60 million on the Tel Aviv stock market to finance the drilling of another well three kilometers away."

Incoming Email

Christ does not return until the Antichrist has revealed himself. He will reveal himself doing or after the next world war.

My reply

I think the Rapture precedes the revealing of the man of sin. He apostacia, in II Thess. 2:3, means "the departing" and was so translated in early versions of the Bible, including Cranmer's, Tyndale's, Beza's, The Great Bible, The Coverdale Bible, etc. A related word, "apostacion" means divorce. The departing is as when a person separates in a divorce and leaves.

We are the salt of the Earth. Salt retards the growth of leaven in breadmaking. We retard the growth of sin through the Holy Spirit that indwells us. He restrains the appearing of the wicked one until we are gone. When the salt is gone, evil will mushroom quickly throughout the whole world. It won't be long until the loaf blows up.

Isa. 57:1 says, "the righteous is taken away FROM the evil to come.

Rev. 3:10,11 says, "I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation (peirasmou, trial), which shall come upon ALL THE WORLD (the Tribulation that comes on all the world), to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly." Jesus comes quickly at the Rapture (Rev. 2:5;22:20). At the Second Advent, every eye will see him. That will not be as quick.

Incoming Email

Dear Marilyn and Ed,
I follow you daily and gratefully copy everything from your Pro/Con posts. So glad to hear Ed is improving, I wish you both well in the rehab phase. Also so sorry to hear about the financial problems that have been heaped on you in addition to the everyday struggles of staying healthy and being open to the Lord, to perform the good works that He has set out for you. Your faith shines through as you continue to respond to your incoming E-Mails (good and contentious). You have a gift of faith and boldness that continues to amaze me. Good for you!

Have you ever considered a tax exempt "religious" organization to help with your finances and publishing? It would seem that your work for the Lord involves more time than most laborers on regular jobs. I am neither an Attorney or Accountant but, maybe some of your friends or associates could point you in the right direction, while keeping you out of the reach of the Evil ones.

Your debate on P/C 223 with Watchman was very well done. I believe others have mentioned the great potential in your P/Cs for organization and publication of your thoughts as a Bible Study on salvation/prophecy, etc. You seem to be called to answer more for some concepts than others, and some are certainly more germaine than others. (e.g. your position on The Revelation of Jesus as a now-time event, as if the rapture is now at hand. Then, the two rapture concept, which is as hard for many of today's scholars to fathom as the two coming's of Jesus was for the first century Jewish scholars. Also the many warnings of Jesus and the Apostles to be ready, watchful and waiting for His soon coming.)

I'm sure the task would be awesome, but with your personal knowledge of salvation and prophecy, plus the areas that many are hung up on, would provide you with a very simplistic format to which you could address answers to your most frequently asked questions, or most difficult theories to comprehend. In fact, a short booklet or phanphlet with referrals to your three books for areas that require more extensive answers would simplify your answering of the same questions over and over on the internet. I see you are already referring some to your articles on the web site.

If this seems overwhelming to you, I also notice that you have never requested assistance in your work or finances from those of us who would be happy to help fund a project of this nature. There are so many who yould consider it a priviledge to volunteer time or money to assist you in the Lord's work.

If this note might possibly open some doors for your work, please feel free to publish it. I realize we may have less than six months before the greatest mass healing, ever, takes us up and out of here, but, there was little time available when you got your third book pulished, and the lord managed to get it out and around the world with time to spare. Possibly He has similar plans in mind now as He tarries and tests His own.

BTW, I am the only guy who wrote to you about seeing God's incredible hole in the sky on 5-29-98, which I took to be a magnificant sign as to how we will be called and gently yanked up into the clouds to be with Him forever. I continue to wait for that glorious day when we will all meet each other in the sky.

With my sincerest appreciation for your continued revelations and encouragement, I remain your endtimes friend

My reply

Thanks for wishing us well.

> You have a gift of faith and boldness that continues to amaze me. Good for you!

Faith I have. There isn't room in my life for the slightest flicker of doubt. To me, once you get hold of who Christ really is, that's it. On the way to finding that out, the 100% fulfilment of Biblical prophecy is enough proof. No one but God is able to do that. The way the Bible has underlying and interwoven meanings that could not have been known at the time a part of it was written proves it is God-breathed. Though penned by different people in different times, it is obviously one book masterminded by God. If the Bible says something, I believe it. It's that simple.

Boldness. That has got to be the Lord's doing. I started out in this world being a shy child that liked to study and learn. I want to KNOW things, lots of things. That basic curiosity has to be God given.

> Have you ever considered a tax exempt "religious" organization

No. Someone mentioned it once, though. I just can't see how there is time, either on the calendar on in my day. I am working to capacity. I can do no more. I feel like I would be abandoning what I am doing to put together something that might never get published.

> publication of your thoughts as a Bible Study on salvation/prophecy, etc.

I have already put a lot of that in my three books.

> You seem to be called to answer more for some concepts than others

That's for sure :-), and you don't see them all. But, to that person, the subject at hand is the most important to get out of the way so they can think of something else. It is sometimes like climbing stairs. Everyone is on a different level, but to get higher, they each have had to tread on that same step along the way.

I feel for pastors. They need to feed both the babes in Christ and the ones that are ready for strong meat. I know it isn't easy to get the right balance. There have been times that I felt cheated in church because everything that day was for the babes. I had to get over that and just go to worship the Lord. If I learned something, fine; if I didn't, fine. But it is sure more fun to learn SOMETHING. The meaning of one Greek word wouldn't be too much for the babes to swallow, would it? I wonder if they would grow up a bit faster if challenged a bit more. If told the same thing over and over, I walk to the car wondering what he said. If I learn something new, I make notes and don't forget what he said as I go through the door.

> and some are certainly more germaine than
> others. (e.g. your position on The Revelation of Jesus as a now-time
> event, as if the rapture is now at hand. Then, the two rapture
> concept, which is as hard for many of today's scholars to fathom as
> the two coming's of Jesus was for the first century Jewish scholars.

I have those concepts in two of the books I have already written, "Exit: 2007: The Secret of Secrets Revealed" and "Revelations 2000" (I called it "The Master Key: Revelation's Secrets Revealed.") I wrote the latter to show how the Rapture being "at hand" applies to the whole book. Understanding that revealed certain things to me with a clarity impossible before.

I love the way you equated the two-Rapture concept with understanding the two Advents. I hadn't thought of it exactly that way. It fits. Thanks.

> I also notice that you have never requested assistance in your work or finances

Assistance. I don't know how anyone can help. Everything is in my brain. I keep saying brains are a lot like computers, but on second thought, you sure can't Copy and Paste. Someone else would not put it together exactly the way it makes sense to me anyway. We are too individual, each on a bit of a different wave length.

Finances. Well, I missed the tax payment this time on the house, but I didn't go into this for money. That didn't enter my mind at all. For time spent, I could have done a lot better at McDonald's, but money is just not what it is all about. What is at stake is so much more important. Gaining eternal life in Heaven and being accounted worthy to be part of that "greatest mass healing, ever" you're talking about at the Rapture is paramount. What is this life when compared to eternity? a drop in an ocean, an entrance test. It is written, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." And I love him.

Strange, that hole in the clouds was also in my son David's dream. All three of us were going up into that hole fast, but he had no sensation of wind or cold.

I appreciate your encouragement. Agape.

Incoming Email

I thought that the two witness's might be Enoc and Elijah seeing that neither of them have died phsyically yet. The bible does state that it's appointed once for man to die and then the judgment. This would dissqualify Moses being that he has died already and must not die again or the above statement would not be true.

What do you think?

My reply

There are exceptions to the general rule. In the Rapture, many will not have to die once. Lazarus and others were raised from the dead and then died again later on. These died twice. If Lazarus died twice, why not Moses?

I think the witness is Moses. There was a dispute about the body of Moses in Jude 9. The two witnesses are "the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth" (Rev. 11:4). This refers us back to Zech. 4:14, which says, "These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." Both Moses and Elijah stood by Jesus Christ, the Lord of the whole earth, at the Transfiguration.

His reply

Ok so if it is Moses then his body will have to be ressurected? From dust you are and to dust you will return.

My reply

Following that line of thinking, you would have to say that your body would have to turn to dust before you could get your resurrection body at the Rapture. Surely you don't think that. Dust to dust is the general rule, but we are to be exceptions.

About Moses' body. Michael the archangel contended with the devil about his body (Jude 9). There was a dispute. Beyond that, I don't know. If I had to guess, I'd be more apt to think that his body did not turn to dust.

Incoming Email

Re: A burdensome rock for all who touch it:
Hi! from Finland
Haven't heard about this from major media. It is from Hebraic.Heritage newsletter. But I believe we will hear about these resolutions in the future. Also in the same newsletter is details of Vatican's recent statements that Jerusalem should be under "international" control. Things are moving on.

Here is the quote:
Weekend News Today By Andra Brack Source: Arabic News Dec 3, 1998

The 53rd General Assembly on Wednesday adopted six resolutions on the question of Palestine and two on the situation in Middle East, calling for self-determination for the Palestinian people and demanding that Israel withdraws from Syria's Golan Heights captured in 1967. The resolutions over the two issues which are the topic of annual debates at the General Assembly, were again endorsed by an overwhelming majority. The United States joined Israel by casting the only negative votes against five of the resolutions, while abstaining on the one about Jerusalem. A resolution on the peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine was adopted: for "fulfilling the rights of the Palestinian people, primarily the right to self-determination," and "the withdrawal of Israel from the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967." The resolution also "stresses the need for commitment to the principle of land for peace. The resolution urged U.N. members to expedite economic and technical assistance to the Palestinian people and emphasized the importance for the United Nations' having a more active and expanded role in the peace process.

Another resolution adopted considers as illegal, null and void a 1948 decision by Israel to impose its laws and jurisdiction on all parts of Jerusalem, including the eastern part captured in 1967. Israel voted against the resolution. The resolution deplored the transfer by some countries of their diplomatic missions to Jerusalem, which Israel regards as its undivided capital. Another adopted resolution called upon Israel to resume peace talks on the Syrian and Lebanese tracks and to respect undertakings reached in previous rounds.

Incoming Email

Re: Worthy of the Kingdom
This book is a discussion that supports the position that while salvation is by grace alone, that the rewards or recompense at the Judgment Seat of Christ are determined by our works and the presence/absence of unconfessed sin. This would appear to fit in with "those who are accounted worthy to escape these things that will come to pass, and stand before the Son of Man.

Have you read this? If so, what is your opinion? It seems this applies to a question I asked a while back:

You write much about the need for believers to avoid being like the lukewarm Laodicean or the foolish virgins who will be left behind at the Rapture of the first fruits to be tested by the Tribulation.

Compare their fate to a believer of the same conviction who dies prior to the last days. Since if they are all believers their salvation is sealed, doesn't the one who dies early get off easy.

Under Finley's scenario, they would not and could be in the "outer darkness" for the Millenium of the Kingdom.

Your thoughts.

My reply

I have not read the book. I did visit the Web site briefly. I use an old Mac and cannot read it in the form in which it can be downloaded.

Anyway, I believe that once we accept Christ and he baptizes us that instant with his Holy Spirit, we are born into God's family, and there is no way we can be unborn. That gains us eternal life and a ticket to Heaven.

It does not guarantee that we will get extra rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ. I Cor. 3:11-15 explains, "other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." To me, that seems very clear.

Salvation is a free gift. It cannot be worked for. However, extra rewards can be worked for. Eph. 2:8-10 says, "by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Bob Thieme says that when we are filled with the Holy Spirit, almost everything we do earns us rewards, but when not filled, we earn no rewards. I couldn't prove all that, but this I know. We must have God's agape love. I Cor. 13:3 says, "though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity (agape), it profiteth me nothing."

How do we get God's agape love? be filled with the Holy Spirit, for God is love. How do we get filled with the Holy Spirit? confess our sins committed since we accepted Christ. Our "OLD" sins were forgiven when we first believed (Second Peter 1:9). Only the ones after that need to be brought under the blood of Christ (Rev. 7:14).

I John 1:4-10 says, "these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." That refutes the Satanic lie of New Age doctrine that says that god includes both good and evil, that they are just different sides of the divine.

Continuing, John says, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

> Under Finley's scenario, they would not and could be in the "outer darkness"
> for the Millenium of the Kingdom.

I think we will be in Heaven after the millennial government is set up, not on Earth, although we can probably travel to Earth if the task the Lord gives us makes that necessary. We will rule with Him over the Earth, not necessarily on the Earth at all times. I also think "outer darkness" means out of doors darkness, referring to those who are left behind when the Rapture door closes.

Incoming Email

Chapter 2 of "The End of the Age" deals with the pre-man history of the earth. But that would imply that death occurred before sin.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Is therefore man's death different and distinguished from all other life? (Perhaps by the fact that when God breathed into Adam's nostrils THAT is what gave him eternal life as when Christ breathed on the disciples and said "receive the holy spirit") ??

My reply

I believe that there was death to animals before Adam was created. When the Earth was refreshed, a new "kosmos" (orderly arrangement) began to operate when God rested.

(Note: Kosmos is the external arrangement of the natural world.)

In Rom. 5:12, the "world" is the Greek "kosmos." By Adam's sin, death entered into this kosmos. Man is different from the animal kingdom. Man has God consciousness that the animals lack.

In Adam's case, I don't know the exact details. For sure, one way or another, he would have had eternal life if he had not sinned. Something was marred in him when he sinned that has been inherited by men and not women. That is how a virgin could have a child that did not have this defect.

Incoming Email

I didn't know if you were aware of this or not, but this last November's leonid shower might have been a sign...I'm sure that you're aware that it was called the Leonid shower, because it came from the Leo constellation...NASA sent out cameras and stuff, to Japan, where the climax of the shower was to take place...Well, for some reason, NASA had miscalculated the location of the shower by almost a whole day....The climax of the shower in fact DID occur over Israel.....I was just wondering what your thoughts on this were.....Blessings

My reply

I don't know if it is a sign or not. However, just the fact that this blizzard of particles climaxed over Israel makes me wonder too. It could be a small warning to Israel of things to come. There are rocks out there that will impact Earth at the end of the shortened Tribulation. The mountain burning with fire (Rev. 8:8) will hit the Mediterranean Sea. Some cities of the sea coast will be desolate. "Gaza shall be forsaken" (Zeph. 2:4,5).

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 12-15-98