Pro and Con 234
Uploaded 12-21-98, PM
Incoming Email Re: Will Moses & Elijah be God's 2 End-Time Prophets?
WILL GOD'S TWO WITNESSES OR *MEN* (REV11:6a) OR *PROPHETS* (REV 11:10) WHO WILL PROPHESY FOR 1260 DAYS, CLOTHED IN SACKCLOTH, (REV 11:3) BE MOSES & ELIJAH??
Zechariah 4:11,14: "Then I asked the angel, "What are these *TWO* OLIVE TREES (See Rev 11:4!) on the right and left of the LAMPSTAND?'" The angel said, "These are the *TWO* who are *ANOINTED* to serve the Lord of the earth!'"
Revelation 11:3-6: (Jesus said to John) "I will give power to My *TWO* witnesses and they will prophesy for 1260 DAYS clothed in sackcloth! These are the *TWO* OLIVE TREES (See Zech 4:11,14 above) and the *TWO* LAMPSTANDS that stand before the Lord of all the earth. If anyone tries to harm them, fire will come from their mouths to destroy their enemies. This is how anyone who tries to harm them must die (See 2 Kings 1:9-12 & Num 16:31-35). These *MEN* will have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying (See 1 Kings 17:1; Luke 4:25 & James 5:17); and they will have power to turn the waters into blood (See Exod 7:15-23) and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they wish."
Moses and Elijah witnessed to 3 Apostles on the Mount of Transfiguration when Moses & Elijah spoke to Jesus about His Departure or Ascension. Luke 9:30,31: "*TWO MEN*, Moses & Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor talking with Jesus. They spoke about His Departure (Or Ascension) which He was about to bring to fulfillment in Jerusalem." Moses & Elijah were most assuredly the *TWO MEN* dressed in white who witnessed at the Departure or Ascension of Jesus in Acts 1:10,11: "They looked up into the sky as He (Jesus) was going, when suddenly *TWO MEN* dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into Heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into Heaven!"
And then in Luke 24:2b-6b we read: They did not find the body of Jesus. While they were wondering about this, suddenly *TWO MEN*" stood beside them" And the *MEN* said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? HE IS NOT HERE; HE HAS RISEN!!"
Jesus says in John 8:17b: "The testimony of *TWO MEN* is VALID!" And of course the testimony of Moses and Elijah is just about as valid as you can be.
In Luke 1:17 Gabriel said to the future father of John the Baptist that his son "Will go before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah. In John 1:21 John the Baptist said that he was not Elijah. Now we know that Jesus does not believe in reincarnation so when Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah He obviously meant this spiritually and meant that John the Baptist had come in the spirit and power of Elijah as God's angel Gabriel had promised.
And so the promise of God in Malachi 4:1,5,6 has not yet been fulfilled. (God promised) "Surely the Day is coming (The Last Day of the Great Tribulation); it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble"See I will send you the prophet *ELIJAH* before the great and dreadful Day of the Lord comes. He (*ELIJAH*) will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse!"
And so the coming of God's *TWO MEN* or witnesses to prophesy for 1260 days (See Rev 11:3-7) will be their *FOURTH* appearance as God's Two Witnesses or Men. And the reason that their names are not mentioned in Luke 24:3 and Acts 1:10 and Rev 11:3-12 is that God the Father as well as Moses and Elijah want us to see and glorify *NO ONE ELSE BUT JESUS*!!
Moses & Elijah will be killed by 666 (See Rev 11:7) exactly 3 ½ days before (See Rev 11:9-15) the 7th angel sounds the 7th and Last Trumpet, and then it will be time to judge the dead and to reward God's servants and prophets. (See Rev 11:18) Since Moses and Elijah will prophesy for exactly 1260 days (See Rev 11:3,7) then they must come from Heaven exactly 1263 ½ days before the Last Day and 3½ days before the coming of 666 from the Abyss and the beginning of the 1260-day Great Tribulation.
Revelation 11:7-15,18: :And when they have finished their (1260-day-Rev 11:3) testimony the Beast that will ascend from the Abyss (Or Hell-Rev 17:8) will conquer and kill them, and the dead bodies of Moses and Elijah will lie in the in the street of the city (By Skull Hill, Jerusalem) which is allegorically called Sodom, where their Lord was crucified. For 3 ½ days men from all nations, tribes and languages will gaze at their dead bodies (On Worldwide TV?) and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb, and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry (See 1 Thess 5:2-4 & Matt 24:37-39) for these *TWO PROPHETS* had tormented them (For 1260 days-See Rev 11:3,6). But after 3 ½ days a breath of life from God will enter Moses and Elijah, and as they stand up on their feet, terror will strike those who see them. Then a loud voice from Heaven will say to them, "Come up here!' and in full sight of their enemies they will go up to Heaven in a cloud. At that very hour there will be a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city (Jerusalem) will be destroyed; 7,000 people will be killed in the earthquake, and the survivors will give glory to the God of Heaven. (See Matt 24:37-39; Joel 2:31,32 & Luke 21:21-25). Then the 7th angel will sound the 7th (And LAST- 1 Cor 15:51,52; Matt 24:31; I Thess 4:16) *TRUMPET* and loud voices in Heaven will say"*THE TIME* has come for judging the dead" and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints!" (See 2 Thess 1:6-10; Dan 12:1b-3; Matt:25:31-34,41,46; Rom 2:5-8; Rev 22:12; Matt 16:27)
Moses and Elijah will most likely witness miraculously to people in the uttermost parts of the earth in all 6000 languages. The Bible still has not been translated into over 4000 languages and Rev 5:9b and Rev 7:9,13,14 must be completely fulfilled. Moses and Elijah will be dressed in *SACKCLOTH* (See Rev 11:3b) which is very appropriate since the Tribulation saints will be very poor; for they will not be able to buy or sell anything as per Rev 13:17. Moses & Elijah will certainly speak the Word of God with great power and love guided by God's Holy Spirit. They definitely will not add or take words away from the Prophetic Word of God (See Rev 22:18,19); and they will encourage God's saints to adhere to *ALL* of the NT Commandments (See Rev 12:13b; 14:12b; Matt 28:20a; John 14:15,21,23; I John 2:2-5) with love (Matt 5:39-44; Rom 11:17-20) in the face of severe and hostile persecution (See I Cor 4:10-13 & 2 Cor 10:3,4)
There is a 40-foot high cliff about 120 yards north of the north wall of the old walled city of Jerusalem. In the middle of this 40-foot high cliff is a large rock formation that looks like a skull. Between Golgotha (Which means Skull Hill) and the Old City wall there is a very busy 4-lane street built over the old main road to Damascus.
After 666 and the armies of the world gather (See Rev 16:16) at Armageddon, Israel (55 miles north of Jerusalem) they will the march to and surround Jerusalem (See Luke 21:20) where Moses and Elijah will be witnessing outside the city gates (See Heb 13:12,13) on that busy 4-lane street (See Rev 11:8); "right where their lord was crucified." (AT THE NEW HOLY PLACE-See Matt 24:15b).
Certainly, the old Jerusalem temple site is NO LONGER A HOLY PLACE. Hebrews 13:12-14: "Jesus suffered outside the city gate to make the people *HOLY THROUGH HIS BLOOD*. Let us, then, go to Him outside the city, bearing the disgrace He bore. For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the City (The New Jerusalem) that is to come." (See Heb 11:10,13-16; Heb 12:22; Rev 3:12b; 21:2,10-27; 22:1-5; 2 Pet 3:13) Gal 4:25,26: "Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present City of Jerusalem, (Called Sodom in Rev 11:8) because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is ABOVE is free, and she is our mother."
The saints are warned to keep their clothes with them (See Rev 16:15) when they see 666 standing in the HOLY PLACE (SeeMatt 24:15b; Heb 13:12) where he will kill Moses and Elijah (See Rev 11:7,8); or when they see the evil armies coming toward Jerusalem from Armageddon about 4 days before the Last Day. (See Luke 21:20; Matt 24:15-18; Rev 16:15; 20:9a)
It seems very appropriate that God will send His *TWO PROPHETS* (See Rev 11:10b) to warn and prepare His saints for the coming of Satan 666 and the Great Tribulation because of His promise in Amos 3:7: "Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the Prophets!"
Now there are some who suggest that the Anti-Christ will exercise his authority for 7 years (Not 42 months) and that the Great Tribulation will last 7 years (Not 1260 days or 3 1/2 Times). They have only ONE Bible verse (Dan 9:27-which they grossly misinterpret) to support this idea which absolutely contradicts God's Divine Time Periods as found in Rev 13:5b, Dan 7:25b & Dan 12:1,2,7b:
Dan 7:24b,25: "A *KING* will arise.... He will speak against the Most High and oppress His saints. The saints will be handed over to him for a Time, Times and 1/2 a Time." (Which is also 42 (30-day) Months or 1260 Days--*NOT* 7 years)
Rev 13:5,7a: "The Beast will utter proud words and blasphemies and will exercise his authority for *42 MONTHS* (Which is also 1260 Days or Time, Times and 1/2 a Time--*NOT* 7 years)
And then in Dan 12:1,2,6b,7b we learn that the resurrection of the saved and lost will occur at the "END" of the Great Tribulation that will last for Time, Times and 1/2 a Time which is also 42 Months or 1260 DAYS--*NOT* 7 years.
Dan 12:7b: "It will be for a Time, Times and 1/2 a Time (Or 1260 DAYS). When the power of the holy people has been finally broken *ALL THESE THINGS* (The Great Tribulation followed by the resurrection of the saved & lost as per Dan 12:1b,2) WILL BE *COMPLETED*!!"
The *FIRST* End-Time event Christians should be looking for is the Coming of Moses and Elijah from Heaven to warn God's saints of the coming power of Satan, the False Prophet, the Anti-Christ and the 1260-day Great Tribulation. And since we do not have to wait at least 7 years for the ruins of Babylon, or a new Jewish Temple to be rebuilt; this could happen at *ANY TIME*!! I Pet 1:13: "Therefore, prepare your minds for ACTION, and set your hope *FULLY* on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed!" This will certainly come as a great shock to the pre-tribbers who wrongly believe that they will be safely cheering the Faithful and Courageous Tribulation Saints from the Heavenly sidelines.
Matt 24:9-13: Jesus says, (During the Great Tribulation) "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of Me. At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of *MOST* (THE GREAT APOSTASY) will grow cold, but he (The Called, Chosen & Faithful-Rev 17:14b) who stands firm to the End will be saved." Matt 24:29-31: Jesus says, "Immediately after the distress of those (1260) days.... The stars will fall from the sky.... At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a loud *TRUMPET CALL* (See I Thess 4:16; I Cor 15:52 & Rev 11:15,18), and they will gather His elect from the 4 winds, (Mk 13:27b adds:) from the ends of the earth to the ends of the Heavens!!" And so JESUS was a *POST-TRIB PROPHET* just as Daniel was in Dan 7:21,22; 25-27 & Dan 12:1,2,7; and Paul in 2 Thess 2:1-9; and John in Rev l4:9-16.
If you have any questions on any End-Time subject or if you would like to share your views concerning God's Word please feel free to contact Richard: By E-MAIL at LovJesus@digital.net. By Phone 941-385-7117.
Incoming Email Your idea that Moses and Elijah may have appeared in the first century more times than at the Mount of Transfiguration is worth looking into. This is something that I had not considered before. I certainly appreciate your bringing it to my attention.
However, I disagree with you on the timing of endtime events. I believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture (Rev. 4:1), the seven-year Tribulation and a Pre-Wrath Rapture (Rev. 7:14) for the Tribulation saints between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals. I think the two witnesses prophesy during the first 3 1/2 years, because the last half of the Tribulation is shortened.
Re: possible appearances of Moses and Elijah at both the Resurrection and the Ascension:
> Moses & Elijah were most assuredly the *TWO MEN* dressed in white who witnessed at the
> Departure or Ascension of Jesus in Acts 1:10,11: "They looked up into the sky as He
> (Jesus) was going, when suddenly *TWO MEN* dressed in white stood beside them....
> And then in Luke 24:2b-6b we read...*TWO MEN* stood beside them And the *MEN*
> said...HE IS NOT HERE; HE HAS RISEN!!"
We are not told that these are Moses and Elijah, but it does seem likely. They are not said to be angels, but "two men." That does not mean that they are not angels, because Gen. 18:2 says that "three men" stood by Abraham. One was the Lord (Gen. 18:17), and the others were the "two angels" (Gen. 19:1) that brought Lot out of Sodom.
At the Transfiguration, "there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease (exodos, an exit, decease or departure) which he should accomplish at Jerusalem" (Lu. 9:30,31). The discussion could have included both his resurrection and ascension, and two men did appear at both the Resurrection and Ascension. The correlation of events builds a good case for the two men to be Moses and Elijah. They may have received instructions at the Transfiguration on what to say at the Resurrection and the Ascension.
> Moses & Elijah will be killed by 666...and the dead bodies of Moses and Elijah will lie
> in the in the street of the city...But after 3 (and 1/2) days a breath of life from God
> will enter Moses and Elijah...Then a loud voice from Heaven will say to them, "Come
> up here!' and in full sight of their enemies they will go up to Heaven in a cloud.
At the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah talked with Jesus about his decease and/or departure. Following in his footsteps in the middle of the Tribulation, these two men will also go through decease, resurrection and departure. I think the Crucifixion was on Thursday. There were about 3 1/2 days from the Crucifixion to the Resurrection: Thursday, Friday, Saturday, plus Sunday night. The two witnesses will be killed 3 1/2 days before their resurrection. The correlation is good.
> It seems very appropriate that God will send His *TWO PROPHETS* (See Rev 11:10b) to warn
> and prepare His saints for the coming of Satan 666 and the Great Tribulation because of
> His promise in Amos 3:7: "Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing His
> plan to His servants the Prophets!"
The discussion at the Transfiguration fits Amos 3:7 very well. It seems that Jesus did reveal his plan to Moses and Elijah. As the two witnesses, they will prophesy during the first half of the Tribulation, before the False Prophet begins his reign and before the Great Tribulation, both of which are in the last half of the seven-year Tribulation.
> Now there are some who suggest that the Anti-Christ will exercise his authority for 7
> years (Not 42 months) and that the Great Tribulation will last 7 years (Not 1260 days
> or 3 1/2 Times). They have only ONE Bible verse (Dan 9:27-which they grossly
> misinterpret) to support this idea which absolutely contradicts God's Divine Time
> Periods as found in Rev 13:5b, Dan 7:25b & Dan 12:1,2,7b:
I think the Tribulation is seven years. The Beast will reign for the first 3 1/2 years, then the False Prophet will take over for the following 3 1/2 years. The Beast rules at the same time the two witnesses prophesy (the first 1260 days, Rev. 11:3). The False Prophet kills the two witnesses as he comes to power and reigns during the following 3 1/2-year Great Tribulation. The first 1260 days is mentioned in Rev. 11:3 and 13:5. The second 1260 days is found in Rev. 12:6, Dan. 7:25 and Dan. 12:7. The "time of trouble" in Dan. 12:1 is one day, the Day of God's Wrath. It says, "there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time."
> The *FIRST* End-Time event Christians should be looking for is the Coming of Moses
> and Elijah from Heaven to warn God's saints
I think the very next upcoming event is the Pre-Trib Rapture.
> Matt 24:29-31: Jesus says, "Immediately after the distress of those (1260) days....
> The stars will fall from the sky.... At that time the sign of the Son of Man will
> appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the
> Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And He will
> send His angels with a loud *TRUMPET CALL* (See I Thess 4:16; I Cor 15:52 & Rev
> 11:15,18), and they will gather His elect from the 4 winds, (Mk 13:27b adds:) from
> the ends of the earth to the ends of the Heavens!!" And so JESUS was a *POST-TRIB
> PROPHET* just as Daniel was in Dan 7:21,22; 25-27 & Dan 12:1,2,7; and Paul in
> 2 Thess 2:1-9; and John in Rev l4:9-16.
The Rapture passage in I Thess. 4:13-18 (the first trump) has to do with the Pre-Trib Rapture, which is as the days of Noah. The Rapture passage in I Cor. 15:51-53 (the last trump) has to do with the Pre-Wrath Rapture, which is as the days of Lot, when fire fell that same day. The Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place on the Day of God's Wrath just before the seven trumpet judgments are cast on Earth.
Rev 11:15-18 tells us of the most momentous day ever. It is Coronation Day for Jesus. It is his birthday and the day of the Marriage of the Lamb and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. It is also the day of the Judgement Seat of Christ. Both the believers in Heaven and the unbelievers on Earth will get their just rewards that day. It is the Day of God's Wrath: "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth" (Rev. 11:18).
The last half of the Tribulation is to be shortened (Mt. 24:22). I think it will last 1040 days (1260 + 1040 = the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14). The 2300th day is the Day of God's Wrath. The Sign of the Son of Man will be seen that day. Between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals, Jesus will catch up the Tribulation saints at the Pre-Wrath Rapture, AND he will gather those that went to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture from one end of Heaven to the other. At that point, the Body of Christ will be complete, and they will all be in one place--Heaven. "For wheresoever the carcase (body, i.e., the Body of Christ) is (in Heaven), there will the eagles (the flying Tribulation saints) be gathered together" (Mt. 24:28). They "that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint" (Isa. 40:31).
Let's examine your texts that you say prove that Daniel, Paul and John were post-Trib prophets. I don't think they mean that there is no Pre-Trib Rapture. There is both a Pre-Trib Rapture and a Pre-Wrath Rapture.
Dan. 7:21,22: "I beheld, and the same horn (False Prophet) made war with the saints (the Tribulation saints), and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days (Christ, Yahwehshua, meaning Yahweh is Saviour, Y'shua) came (Second Advent, Nisan 1, Ezek. 29:17,21), and judgment was given to the saints of the most High (Christ); and the time came that the saints posessed the kingdom." This is not the Judgment Seat of Christ, which takes place in Heaven on the 2300th day of the Tribulation, but the Judgment of the Nations, which takes place on Earth. I think it will be at the full end of the seven-year Tribulation. Psa. 149:7-9 ties in. It says, "To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints."
Dan. 7:25-27: "And he (the False Prophet) shall speak great words against the most High (Christ), and shall wear out the saints (the Tribulation saints) of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they (the Tribulation saints) shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time" (the second 1260 days of the seven-year Tribulation, Rev. 12:6,14).
Dan 12:1,2: "AND at that time (when the False Prophet is deposed on the 2300th day) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble (Day of God's Wrath), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals) thy people shall be delivered (in the Pre-Wrath Rapture), every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Dan. 12:7: "And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half (the last 3 1/2 years of the seven); and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." The seven years will be finished and the Judgment of the Nations convened.
2 Thess 2:1-9: "NOW we beseech you, brethren (believers), by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him (the Pre-Trib Rapture), That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (all the best MSS have Day of the Lord, i.e., the Millennium) is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (the millennial Day of the Lord) shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia, departing, as separating in an "apostacion," divorcement; i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture) first. and that man of sin (the False Prophet) be revealed, the son of perdition (he is Satan possessed, as Judas was); Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth (the Holy Spirit) that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (Old English for hindereth) will let (hinder), until he be taken out of the way (at the Pre-Trib Rapture). And then (after the Pre-Trib Rapture) shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs (Rev. 13:13,14) and lying wonders."
Rev l4 ends with two reapings. Both take place the same day, but the first one takes place before the second one. The first is the Rapture of the Tribulation saints. It takes place between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals. The second reaping is the punishment of the unbelievers who get thrown into "the great winepress of the wrath of God" later on that same day. Those left on Earth after the Second Rapture receive the seven trumpet judgments that are cast upon Earth after the seventh seal is broken.
The seven trumpets are not the same as the trumpets sounded at the two Raptures. The seven are sounded by angels. Those sounded at the Raptures are "the trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16). They are prefigured by the two silver trumpets of Nu. 10:2-4. They are "for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (both), ALL the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation (as in I Cor. 15:52). And if they blow but with ONE trumpet, then the princes (elders), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee" (as in Rev. 4:1-4).
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