Pro and Con 24
Incoming Email, Re: Rapture
I have found a wonderful verse! Rev.3:3! It says it right there! A question-do we have to be physically awake for the rapture? Can we be sleeping that way? Keep up the good work
If we turn Rev. 3:3 around, what would it say? If we shall watch, he will not come on us as a thief (i.e., at the end of the Tribulation), and we shall know what hour he will come upon us.
If we know when he is coming, wouldn't we be awake and watching at that time? The Jews stay up all night on Pentecost. I want to try to stay up on Pentecost too.
Israel was betrothed to God on Pentecost at Sinai. Jeremiah 2:2 says, "I remember thee, the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals, when thou wentest after me in the wilderness."
Thus, Israel counts down the days until Pentecost with an air of excitement, looking toward the fulfillment, the completion of the marriage, just as a young bride counts the days of her betrothal until the actual marriage ceremony takes place.
To the Jews, Shavuot (the Feast of Weeks, i.e., Pentecost) is known also as Yom Habikkurim, the Day of the First Fruits. The Bride of Christ is the "FIRST of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God" on Pentecost (Ex. 23:16,19).
God's clock for Israel stopped when the Church was born into this world on Pentecost in 30 A.D. I think it likely that God's clock for Israel will restart on Pentecost in 5758 (May 31, 1998, Jerusalem time), when the Church that is the Bride of Christ will be born into a new world. I think the Lord will come in 5758, 5759, 5760, and 5761 to check for fruit on his fig tree (Israel) as depicted in the parable of the barren fig tree in Luke 13:6-9.
In that parable, the Lord said, "Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he (the dresser of his vineyard) answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down." The cutting down is the Tribulation.
What if we fall asleep when we try to stay awake?
At the transfiguration, Luke 9:32 says, "But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory."
In the parable of the ten virgins, "While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps....And while they (the foolish) went to buy (oil), the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut" (Mt. 25:5-10).
I can't be certain, but it sounds like the trump of God will wake the sleeping virgins. But then, they have to have already prepared themselves by being full of the Holy Spirit to be able to go with the Lord. Those that are awake, watching, praying and confessing their sins, will be sure to be ready. Watching is important, for Jesus told us about 23 times to watch. I would rather be watching.
Mark 14:37-41 says of the night Jesus was taken prisoner, "And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour? Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak." Then Jesus went away again, "And when he returned, he found the asleep again, (for their eyes were heavy,) neither wist they what to answer him. And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest."
It just may be that this is a type of his comings in the time of the end. First, there is the Rapture of the Bride of Christ. Second, there is the Rapture of the rest of the Body of Christ. Third, he comes at the Second Advent when the millennial "sabbatismos" (rest) has begun.
I think it best if we watch and pray, but if we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we are ready. That is what is important. We must be worthy.
Luke 21:34,35 says, "take heed to yourselves, let at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
I just read your Pros and Cons updates. I also just bought and finished reading the Bible Codes book by Michael Drosnin. I was hearing so much and reading about it on different web pages I finally went and got it. It certainly is interesting. It doesn't appear to be disputable. If the information is there, it's there and the secular scientific community has done it's best to disprove it and can't. They certainly have good cause to prove it wrong. I eagerly wait for the information you stated in Pro/con 23 concerning the Rapture. Of course, after reading the book the first thing I wanted to know is "What's the date of the Rapture according to the codes?" I know from an interview Michael Drosnin did on the 700 Club that I just caught by chance, that he will not investigate the name of the Messiah. He believes there is so much strife in the Holy Land that he does not want to contribute to it by saying one side is right and the other wrong. He also does not profess to know Christ but from his book is now coming to a belief that there may be a God. (My goodness, what does it take for some people?) He appears to only be interested in the political and current world events the codes reveal. Anyway, I would like to know if you are aware of any Christians that have access to the computer software that locates the codes. (Michael Drosnin is non-religious, his mentor in this is a Russian immigrant to Israel, world-class mathematician Dr. Eli Rips, who is Jewish.) My suspician is: if they find evidence of Christ in the codes, they may be reluctant to be completely forthcoming with the information they find. If you know of anyone, are they publishing or putting the results of their research on the net? Thank you in advance for any information you have regarding this. Your doing a great job on the web-page. I just printed out your section of the two raptures for my hair dresser. While cutting my hair we got into a discussion of two raptures. She said she believes there are two but doesn't have information to substantiate that and wasn't clear when the second one would be. I hope your hard work and research will benefit her as well as the countless others that you have touched. Take care and God bless you and your work. (and Ed too)
> I would like to know if you are aware of any Christians that have access to the
> computer software that locates the codes.
Yes, the man that wrote me has the program. He is writing an anticle now for me to post on my Web site. It will carry his name as author. He is very busy but will try to get it to me soon. I told him to take what time he needed to say exactly what he wanted to say.
I just learned something today while reading a sample of Dr. Tabor's translation for the Original Bible Project. When talking about the first day of the Millennium, the Day of God's Wrath, Isaiah 2:9,10 says, "So mankind bends low, and a man is brought down--so forgive them not! Enter into the rock, and hide in the dust, from the face of the terror of YHVH, and from the majesty of his greatness!" The note on "forgive" says that the Hebrew is "nasa," lift up.
Therefore, I saw that "forgive them not" here really means lift up them not, i.e., Rapture them not.
The second Rapture takes place in the night that begins that same Jewish day, but after that, there is no more lifting up. Then they had better try to hide.
Rev. 6:15-17 says, "And the kings of the earth...and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne (the Sign of the Son of Man), and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
Incoming Forwarded Email, Re: The Folding of the Napkin
>From: Teri Bell-Peacock
>Subject: Re: Napkin on the Table
>I'm not certain about the signifigance of the napkin folded on the table, but
>while I was last in Jerusalem, I did learn an interesting thing from a
>historian working at the Garden Tomb. It seems that when carpenters of
>Yshua's time worked, they wore a head cloth. This cloth helped keep
>perspiration out of their eyes, but it also served another purpose. It was
>the custom for the customer to come by every day to check on the progress of
>the work he had ordered. When the carpenter completed the work, he would
>remove his head cloth, fold it and place it on the work. This way, when the
>customer came by and saw the headcloth folded and laying on the piece, he
>would know the work was complete.
>We read in the gospels that when the disciples knelt and went into the tomb,
>they saw the burial clothes of Yshua. There is special mention, however, of
>the headcloth being set aside and folded. It is possible that the 1st
>century readers understood the signifigance of this folding to mean that
>Yshua was telling us that His work was complete!!!!!
>Isn't that awesome?!?!? And that's just one reason why we love exploring the
Incoming Email, Re: Will you heaven (planet) pass away
I do not expect Heaven (the planet) or Earth to actually pass away, or to be annihilated. The Israelites were promised the Earth forever.
Revelation 21:1 says, "AND I saw a new (kainon, fresh, made new, refreshed) heaven and a new (refreshed) earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away (to come and go by)." The same word is used in II Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
I think it is our atmospheric heaven and the face of the Earth that must be refreshed after the pieces of a binary asteroid split and hit in the Mediterranean Sea and at Babylon. This is very like the situation when Adam was put here. Earth had become chaotic from an asteroid impact and had to be refreshed to make it a fit habitat for Adam in the first millennium.
Psalm 102:25,26 says, "Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment: as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed." Here we can see that it is the outer parts that are involved. The atmosphere and the surface of the Earth must be refreshed to make it a fit habitat for mankind in the seventh millennium.
Second Peter 3:10-13 says, "But the day of the Lord (the Millennium) will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens (atmospheric) shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness. Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new (kainen, fresh, made new, refreshed) heavens and a new (refreshed) earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."
Green's Interlinear has "the heavens with rushing noise shall pass away and the elements burning with heat shall be dissolved." This pictures an asteroid impact very accurately.
Incoming Email, Re: Evidence
What will you do when Aug 1998 comes and there is no rapture of the church? The Word of God has no evidence which supports your attempt at date setting. Please take the word of God litterally, without trying to find so many hidden meanings in the Word of God. The Word of God is impossible to understand by the lost, but not by the saved. God has no intention of trying to hide the truth from his own people. Only the lost are blinded, and they are blinded only because they do not have the Holy Spirit in them to reveal the spiritual things of God.
I will wait patiently for the Rapture, whenever it is. I am convinced that it cannot be far off. To me, the scriptures seem clear on all this.
Some people that are actually Christians are still blind. The Laodiceans have to be in the Body of Christ to be spewed out.
I know God has no intention of hiding the truth now. We are living in the end times. And "none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand" (Dan. 12:10).
In Mark 13:23, Jesus said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things." What can you exclude from "all"? the time of the Rapture? the time of the Second Advent? I think not. In Luke 8:17,18 Jesus said, "For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. Take heed therefore how ye hear."
Have you tried taking the numerical date for Pentecost in 1998 to see if it spells out a Hebrew phrase? I am told that 1998 in hebrew lettering (Letters and Numbers are the same symbols) spells out Noah. The scriptures point out that these days would be like the "days of noah".
Here is what Perry Stone said, "2) On October 2, the new Jewish New Year 5758 will begin. The year 5758 will be a Jubilee year of sorts, for this year will see the 50th anniversary of the founding of the nation of Israel. 3) The Hebrew year 5758 spelled out in Hebrew is an acronym for the phrase 'the season of Noah'. In fact, the last two letters of the Hebrew year 5758 spell the name 'Noah'."
Email Forwarded to me, Re: Babylon
> In his end-time fictional novel, "The End of the Age," post-tribber Pat
> Robertson has ancient Babylon rebuilt as the antichrist's headquarters. I
> may be wrong, and I am not dogmatic on this because I really do not know,
> but I doubt that end-time Babylon is the same as ancient Babylon. The
> Babylon Jeremiah describes for the last days sounds more like America than
> ancient Babylon.
> For example, the "rich" Babylon Jeremiah describes lives "by many waters"
> (USA, not ancient Babylon; 51:13). "She made the WHOLE EARTH drunk....they
> have now gone mad" (our drug/sex/rock culture via MTV and other media
> pervades the earth; 51:7). Our soldiers "have become like women"
> (homosexuals, women in combat; 51:30). She will be attacked by "arrows"
> (missiles; 50:9), from "the north" (direction of Russia; 50:3), with her
> judgment rising "as high as the clouds" (nuclear; 51:9). NASA's space
> program is implied in 51:53 (KJV), with Babylon mounting "up to heaven."
> Also, "They sinned against the LORD....the hope of their fathers" (USA, not
> ancient Babylon; 50:7). Economic Babylon of Revelation 18, the commercial
> capital of the world, may be New York (the Babylon of chapter 17 may be Rome
> because of the reference to the "seven hills" in v. 9). Chapter 18:4
> mentions that in one day, and verse 10 says in one hour, she will be
> destroyed, with the world's government and financial leaders weeping and
> mourning (18:9,15). A one-hour destruction of a great city is something
> possible only in the past 50 years, and probable only this decade with the
> proliferation of nuclear weapons, recently spreading on the black market
> from the former USSR to terrorist organizations, according to intelligence
> sources. Only God is holding back Iran, Iraq and other radicals from
> setting off a nuclear explosion in New York, Washington, D.C., Tel Aviv and
> elsewhere, until "the appointed time."
Your letter was forwarded to me, and I would like to tell you why I think Babylon is the one on the Euphrates River.
Zechariah 5:5-11 talks about the world church. (We are wheat, the ephah is the largest wheat measure, and "This is their resemblance through all the earth.") It is being taken up and flown to Babylon by two religious groups. Verse 11 says, "To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base."
Shinar is Babylon (Dan. 1:1,2), where the tower of Babel was begun (Gen. 11:2). The base, or foundation, of the Mystery Religion of Babylon is the Tower of Babel. The Mystery Religion was set up there by Nimrod and Semiramis. Babylon is the "MOTHER OF HARLOTS" (Rev. 17:5).
Nuclear weapons are not the implements of the Wrath of God. It looks like a binary asteroid will split apart on the way in. One piece "as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died: and the third part of the ships were destroyed" (Rev. 8:8,9).
This is the Mediterranean Sea for "Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast" (Zeph. 2:4,5).
God's fury comes up in his face when the united nations army attacks Israel. "Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (the Sign of the Son of Man is seen that day), and the mountains (plural) shall be thrown down" (Eze. 38:18-20).
The other piece destroys Babylon, "and there fell a great star (aster) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp" (Rev. 8:10).
"And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all" (Rev. 18:21).
An asteroid impact could utterly burn the whole city in one hour. It will cause a worldwide earthquake. "A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations." (Jer. 25:31).
Other reasons that this is not America is that fire will burn in Magog (Eze. 39:6) and Egypt will be hurt so badly that no one will live there for the next 40 years (Eze. 29:11). This happens in the middle east.
The surface of the Earth itself will be twisted. Isaiah 24:1-6 in Dr. Tabor's sample translation for the Original Bible Project says, "Behold, YHVH empties the earth and wastes it, and has twisted its face, and scattered its dwellers...The earth will be emptied, utterly emptied! And spoiled, utterly spoiled...a curse devours the earth, and those who dwell on it are guilty; therefore the dwellers of earth are scorched and few men left."
His reply, Re: Babylon
You make some good points. I will surely keep it in mind. Thanks for sharing.
Incoming Email, Re: The Open Door by Lyn Mize
> A reader referred to this book. I called the book store and they did
> not have this in the Books in Print by either title or author. Did you
> get the book? Do you know how to get it? Tks.
> I know that you hear this quite often but I really enjoy your web page.
> I admire the way that you are able to answer your critics w/o animosity
> or harshness but from the scriptures.
No, I have not had the money to order this book. Here is the information I received by email on The Open Door by Lyn Mize:
>...To answer your question about how Lyn Mize arrived at the May 31, 1998
>date, I should clarify and say that the book itself only lays out the case
>for the firstfruits rapture, without settling on that date. However, he has
>been looking for the firstfruits rapture each Pentecost since 1994, and when
>it didn't occur this past Pentecost, he is now looking at May 31, 1998. He
>feels that it must be on Pentecost to fulfill the type of the firstfruits.
>There is no detailed time calculation, such as you have presented.
> The book, however, does a masterful job of presenting the firstfruits
>rapture, aside from the actual date. He contrasts the Philadelphia church
>with the other churches, similar to you, and he titles the book "The Open
>Door" based upon that open door for the Philadelphia church in Revelation.
>He also uses Luke 21:36 , where Jesus tells us to "watch and pray, that you
>might be counted worthy to escape all these things, and to stand before the
>Son of Man."
> He also makes a good point, about the apostle Paul striving to attain a
>"better" resurrection. Why would he do that? It is easily understood when we
>remember that while salvation is by grace, our rewards are according to our
> He also covers the Olivet discourse, and the parable of the ten virgins,
>and also the yearly feast calendar in a very challenging and compelling way.
>The type of the firstfruits is a very strong part of his presentation for
>the firstfruits rapture.
> You can get his book (on a donation basis - it is comparable to a good
>quality $9.00 paperback) from:
> Lyn Mize
> Meat in Due Season Ministries
> 332 Cedar Glen Circle
> Chattanooga, TN 37412
> (423) 855-4851
Thanks for saying you enjoy my Web page. I can't hear that too much. It makes all my long hours spent at the computer worth while. When we signed up for the Internet last September, I did not even know what HTML was. I just had to go out on the Internet and find the HTML guides and programs I needed. As I learned, I put it to use. I barely know enough to do what I am doing.
I use a Mac. My husband got one for me when I started to rewrite my first book the 7th time. He said he'd like to see the book finished while he was still alive. It only took me 23 years of writing to do it. I learned new things all the time. He wisely chose a Mac so I could immediately go on with my book instead of taking time out to learn a lot about computers. I have been thankful for that decision ever since.
As for answering people without animosity, I do not feel animosity toward them. Jesus died for these people. He loves them and his love flows through me and goes out to them. Whether they understand everything correctly or not is beside the point. I just want to do what I can to help them understand Scripture. My main desire is to wake up the Laodiceans and get them over into the Philadelphian fold. The Philadelphians have the open door in front of them. The Laodiceans face a closed door at the time of the first Rapture.
Incoming Email, Re: Raptures
You make some good points. There will be discipline; however, there is no such thing as pre-night (pre-Tribualtion) in which we are to watch; for we can only watch at night--or in the Tribulation (the Day of the Lord begins in the night). By the way, newly converted Great Tribulation saints deep into the Tribulation are not raptured, but are told to be faithful unto death. Therefore, the Great Crowd in Rev. 7 is really the foolish of the Church; who have the soiled robes of religion.
Yes, Christians are disciplined right here and now for they will never suffer punishment after being taken to Heaven.
Where does it say we are only to watch at night--or in the Tribulation?
I ran through the entries in Strong's Concordance. This is what I found:
Mt. 24:42: "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."
Mt. 25:13: "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."
Mt. 26:41: "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation."
Mk. 13:33-37: "Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is."
Mk. 14:38: "Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation."
Lu. 21:36: "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
Acts 20:31: "Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears."
I Cor. 16:13: "Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong."
Col. 4:2: "Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving."
I Thess. 5:5,6: "Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."
2 Tim. 4:5: "But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."
I Pet. 4:7: "But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."
Rev. 3:3: "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief (i.e., on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord), and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."
The scriptures are clear. The children of the day are to "watch and be sober."
> newly converted Great Tribulation saints deep into
> the Tribulation are not raptured, but are told to be faithful unto death.
> Therefore, the Great Crowd in Rev. 7 is really the foolish of the Church
Psalm 40:1-3 shows that "many shall see it (the first Rapture), and fear, and shall trust in the LORD." They are not limited to the foolish of the Church. In Revelation 7, there are 144,000 Jews plus a great multitude out of all nations and tongues. There is nothing that would limit these to the foolish of the Church, but the foolish of the Church are among them. Not all those in this great multitude die, but there are many martyrs during the Tribulation.
Only the church in Smyrna was told "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Rev. 2:10). These are Christians when the Rapture is "at hand" (Rev. 1:3; 22:10). It does not refer to those that are newly converted later on during the Great Tribulation. Things that follow the "Come up hither" of Revelation 4:1 "must be hereafter." Things before that are when the Rapture is at hand.
John was told to "Write the things which thou hast seen (before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the time of the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter (after the Rapture)" (Rev. 1:19). In Revelation, the Pre-Trib Rapture is the vantage point Christ stood on to view both the past and the future.
Each of us must "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (II Tim. 2:15).
My heartfelt thanks to all who like my Web Site. God's wonderful blessings on you all. May we meet at the assembly in Heaven right after the Rapture.
(Mrs.) Marilyn J. Agee
Pro and Con 25
Contact me for more information. My e-mail address is: firstname.lastname@example.org
8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110, FAX (909) 697-8960
© 1997 Marilyn J. Agee