Pro and Con 242

Uploaded 1-3-99, PM

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You stated in Pro-Con 240 that Jesus asks us to watch 23 times. Actually the word for watch (1127 gregoreuo) appears 23 times but from my reckoning, the Lord Jesus uses the word a total of 17 times. Of those 17 instances He uses that word as a direct imperative (as opposed to parabolically) 5 times. We are also commanded to watch 5 times in the epistles. When He asks Peter to watch in the garden, it is used 4 times as a command.

If you subtract the indirect references and parabolic uses from the 23 occurrences of the word, you will find that we are commanded 10 separate times to watch. Kind of like the 10 commandments, no?

The scripture references are below. You can check them out if you don't agree with me.

In searching this out, I do think it is interesting that the word

1127 gregoreuo (to watch)

derives from 1453 egeiro, which means

1) to arouse, cause to rise
1a) to arouse from sleep, to awake

It appears that the greek word for TO WATCH has a grammatical connection to RAPTURE!
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17 VERSES WHERE JESUS SPEAKS THIS WORD
Matt 24:42, 43; Matt 25:13
Matt 26:38; Matt 26:40, 41
Mark 13:34, 35; Mark 13:37
Mark 14:34; Mark 14:37, 38
Luke 12:37; Luke 12:39
Reve 3:2, 3; Reve 16:15

USED IN PARABLES 4 TIMES
Matt 24:43; Mark 13:34; Luke 12:37; Luke 12:39

USED INDIRECTLY ... NOT AS A COMMAND TWICE
Reve 3:3 (indirect) IF YOU WILL NOT WATCH ...
Reve 16:15 (blessing) BLESSED IS HE WHO WATCHES ...

5 DIRECT IMPERATIVES FROM JESUS TO BELIEVERS
Matt 24:42, Matt 25:13, Mark 13:35, Mark 13:37, Rev 3:2

4 DIRECT IMPERATIVES FROM JESUS TO DISCIPLES IN GARDEN OF GETHSEMANE
Matt 26:38 Matt 26:41 Mark 14:34 Mark 14:38

WORD USED BY PAUL and PETER 6 TIMES
Acts 20:31 1Cor 16:13 Colo 4:2 1The 5:6
1The 5:10 (NOT A COMMAND ... "WHETHER WE WAKE OR SLEEP...); 1Pet 5:8

5 DIRECT IMPERATIVES FROM PAUL/PETER
Acts 20:31, 1Cor 16:13, Colo 4:2, 1The 5:6, 1Pet 5:8
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Lexicon Greek 1127
1127 gregoreuo {gray-gor-yoo'-o} from 1453; TDNT - 2:338,195; v AV - watch 21, wake 1, be vigilant 1; 23 1) to watch 2) metaph. give strict attention to, be cautious, active 2a) to take heed lest through remission and indolence some destructive calamity suddenly overtake one

Lexicon Greek 1453
1453 egeiro {eg-i'-ro} probably akin to the base of 58 (through the idea of collecting one's faculties); TDNT - 2:333,195; v AV - rise 36, raise 28, arise 27, raise up 23, rise up 8, rise again 5, raise again 4, misc 10; 141 1) to arouse, cause to rise 1a) to arouse from sleep, to awake 1b) to arouse from the sleep of death, to recall the dead to life 1c) to cause to rise from a seat or bed etc. 1d) to raise up, produce, cause to appear 1d1) to cause to appear, bring before the public 1d2) to raise up, stir up, against one 1d3) to raise up i.e. cause to be born 1d4) of buildings, to raise up, construct, erect

My reply

Thanks much. This is exciting news. I agree with you. God bless you real good.

> If you subtract the indirect references and parabolic uses from the 23
> occurrences of the word, you will find that we are commanded 10 separate
> times to watch. Kind of like the 10 commandments, no?

Yes. The only difference in approach is that I think Christ, the Son of God, YHVH of hosts (Isa. 44:6), "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev. 22:13), "the root" of David (Rev. 22:16), "the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8), "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" (Isa. 9:6), actually produced the Bible--all of it. Therefore, any God-breathed word would actually come from his mind. "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (II Cor. 5:19).

Strong's adds "take up" to 1453. Young's says it is translated that way one time. Thayer's has scads of verses where it is used. Strong's 1454, egersis, is also from 1453. It means resurrection from death. Young's says it is translated "resurrection" one time.

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From AU:
I was doing a little research into the Lubavitcher Rebbe and other Jewish literature when I came across your Pro and Con 204 discussion. I personally don't believe in the secret rapture on the basis of 1 Thessalonians 15-17. It would be comforting to believe in the secret rapture in that we would be spared the tribulation. But is the time of tribulation with us right now? More Christians have been martyred for their faith this century than in all past centuries put together. However, there is still the "mark of the beast" to come. The Greek word Charagma, to mark or engrave with a badge of ownership. I believe that the mark will come by the acceptance or the pledging of aliegence to the "President" of the One World Government. A bit like a naturalisation ceremony. Christians and Muslims will refuse to accept. Microchip technology exists (Smartcard) already to have us "marked" and numbered. I look forward to your comments if you have time. When it was announced that the "new" telephone would enable a perfect stranger to contact anybody without a prior apointment, many were appalled. The internet not only allows a perfect stranger to contact without appointment but to butt in to a conversation of great significance between two people. May God Bless You.

My reply

> I personally don't believe in the secret rapture on the basis of 1 Thessalonians 15-17.

I assume you mean chapter 4. I believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture, as indicated by "keep thee from" in Rev. 3:10 and "escape all these things" in Lu. 21:36, but it will not be secret.

Psalm 40:1-3 says, "I WAITED patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit (as Jeremiah was taken up out of a pit in the Earth), out of the miry clay (our bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established by goings. And the hath put a new song (sung after the Rapture in Revelation 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."

Those who see it and trust in the Lord will probably be those of the Tribulation that will be so strong in their faith that they will be willing to be martyred, if need be.

Isa. 57:1,2 says, "THE righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away FROM THE EVIL TO COME. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness."

> It would be comforting to believe in the secret rapture in that we would be
> spared the tribulation.

Luke 21:36 commands, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

There are two Raptures, one Pre-Trib, the other Pre-Wrath. The first group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9 ("out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"). The second group is the "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues...These are they which came out of great tribulation" (Rev. 7:9,14).

The difference between these two groups is the difference between the wise virgins and the foolish virgins (Mt. 25:1-13), the Philadelphians and the Laodiceans (Rev. 37-22).

Between the two groups that are raptured is Rev. 6. It starts out with the beginning of the Tribulation and runs through the breaking of the sixth seal. It ends with, "the day of his wrath is come." The first Rapture is before the Tribulation begins. The second Rapture is on the Day of God's Wrath, but before the seventh seal is broken in Rev. 8.

> But is the time of tribulation with us right now?

No, but it is close. When the seven-year peace treaty is signed, the Tribulation begins. I think the Seventieth Week of Daniel will begin on the Feast of Weeks in 2001.

> Microchip technology exists (Smartcard) already to have us "marked" and numbered.

This MARC will probably turn out to be the Mark. We are soooooo close. When these things begin to come to pass, look up, your redemption draweth nigh.

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Just wanted you to know that your website is wonderful.....keep up the good work.

My reply

Thanks. I'll try hard. Hope this is our best year ever.

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I hope you and Ed are keeping your heads up despite the many attacks from the evil force that surrounds us. God knows you are doing your best to wake up the world. Thanks for moving the Pro/Con link to the top of your page.

I sent you an email about this already, but I keep feeling this scenario might be true. As I read about the false prophet, I keep feeling that the Islamic nations might produce the Anti-Christ or false prophet.

The Prophet Mohammed left a legacy of writings that have affected the way the Islamic nations treat all religions. If he should be raised from the dead for the purpose of taking his place as the false prophet, because the Islamic world believes that he ascended to heaven from the Dome of the Rock where the Temple once stood, he would be a very powerful man. I am not sure that they expect him to return but nevertheless, if he does, he will be the most powerful prophet in the world with the evangelistic efforts of the Muslims. People would think "who can make war with the prophet/king?"

I have been approached by so many Muslims lately that I am convinced that they have an aggressive effort afoot to convert American blacks to Islam. They are using the approach that they also believe in Jesus. Then after you engage in conversation with them, you find out that they do not believe in Jesus..they want to talk about the Qu'ran. I am about to put together a written defense of the scriptures for a young man who wants to talk to me about the "Prophet Mohammed" and why Isalm is the only true religion of the world. I have no interest in Islam other than to save my fellow brothers and sisters from its' grip.

If Mohammed did return, his desire would be to establish himself in the Temple and as head of the Fertile Crescent including Jerusalem. As thus, he would naturally return to Babylon, his original seat of power. His "return" would signal to the Islamic world that the blasphemers must be dealt with and dealt with harshly. The rights of Jews and Christians would be thrown into utter disregard. He would be the best candidate for a false prophet that I know of right now.

The question then becomes weather he (Mohammed) would team up with a Pope whose origins would be from Iraq or Iran to create a mystery religion.

Your comments welcomed.

My reply

Ed and I are managing. Since his fall Wednesday after we went to the grocery store following Cardiac Rehab, he is using a cane or hanging on to my elbow again. All his scrapes were pretty superficial, thank the Lord, for he twisted as he fell hard. The only casualty was the elbow of his shirt. We had a 10 AM to 6 PM trip today, so he is poohed out and fast asleep. We saw his mother, Millie Sparkes, in the hospital. She is not doing well at all, needs our prayers. We had five generations there today. That was a Kodak moment, but none of us had a camera. One of the kids had his mother, grandma, great grandma (me), and great great grandma there.

A bit later. Oops! always something. I think our son just broke a toe. He hit the organ bench terribly hard and split the nail way back. I went across the street to get his daughter. He told her to get ready for bed. Somehow, she hit the bathtub faucet really hard with the same toe, split the nail and made it bleed. If that wasn't a freak thing. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it. I got cold packs for them both.

Thanks for moving the Pro/Con link to the top of your page.

Glad you suggested something like that. I should have thought of it a long time ago.

> The Prophet Mohammed...If he should be raised from the dead for the
> purpose of taking his place as the false prophet

I doubt that would happen. The Jews would not accept someone as Messiah unless he was Jewish. Zech. 11:15-17 says, "a foolish shepherd...I will raise up a shepherd in THE LAND (Israel), which shall not visit those that be cut off...Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock (he goes to Babylon)! the sword (Sword of the Lord, the asteroid) shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened."

> People would think "who can make war with the prophet/king?"

They will probably say, "who is able to make war" with the Tribulation Pope. "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life" (Rev. 13:4,8).

> The question then becomes weather he (Mohammed) would team up with a
> Pope whose origins would be from Iraq or Iran to create a mystery religion.

I don't think the Tribulation Pope has to come from Iraq. I think the world capital will be built at Babylon, and he will move there. The Babylonian Mystery religion became mixed in with Christianity in the Roman Church in the days of Constantine. He declared Christianity the state religion, and this put both pagans and Christians in the same basket. When the Rapture takes the overcomers to Heaven, what will be left of this mixture? You know--the harlot church of Babylon, the one with roots in Babylon from long ago.

If you could get hold of Hislop's "Two Babylons," you would get a lot more on this than I can tell you.

Satan's counterfeit mystery religion started with Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz at the Tower of Babel. In Jesus' message to the church in Pergamos, he said, "I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is." The headquarters for the Mystery Religion of Babylon was at Pergamos by that time. The high priest was called the Pontifex Maximus. Semiramis and Tammuz were worshiped as madonna and child under many different names. That came about when the languages were confused at Babel. Some of the goddesses were Ashtoreth, Astarte, and Ishtar. When Attalus III died, he willed Pergamos to Rome. They accepted anyone's gods and goddesses. Rome became a mixing pot for all kinds of pagan religions. They threw Christianity right into that mixture. Satan probably said to himself, "If you can't beat them, join them." He made sure that we have some wolves in sheep's clothing around at all times to twist the truth and mislead as many as possible. That is why it is so important to read Scripture for ourselves. It is pure truth.

In the pagan mystery religion, Easter, a spring fertility festival, was celebrated with eggs. The birthday of Tammuz was celebrated with evergreen trees on Dec. 25 during the Saturnalia, the festival of Saturn. These pagan customs later became associated with and were adapted to Christianity in Rome.

I think Jesus was really born on the Feast of Trumpets (Sept./Oct.), not Dec. 25. Shepherds don't keep their flocks in the field at night in December. It is too cold. Agape

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FWD: David Hill wrote:
> Hey! David! I just barely understood your latest post ...

{Yeah, you're not the only one! Apparently I am not very good at expressing my point of view. I need to work on that more.}

> However, you remember Jim Harman [I think] posted January 23, 1999 as 49 years
> after the "proclaiming" of Jerusalem as capital of Israel? Anyway,
> that seems to fit your latest thinking.

{Yeah, he was basing it on Newton's Interpretation of Daniel. I remember it well, and was a little surprised that this date came that close to his. There is also two more things about Jan of 1999 that seem to be important. One is that that Vatican wants to get involved in the final status talks over Jerusalem, starting in Jan of 1999. Probably so that they can have everything wrapped up for the Jubilee Year Celebration in 2,000. Whatever the reason, we know that this potentially is a fulfillment of Prophecy on a grand scale. I believe that one of Rene's Posts directed us to MJAgee's site, where this info is found.}

{The other thing is that the Fulfillment of the Sign of the Women giving birth will occur this coming fall, in Oct. This would be 9 months from this January, the time of 'Conception'. I get this concept from Marion Kremers book, "God intervenes in the Middle East" which is well worth reading if you can find a copy.}

{And actually there is a third indication of January of 1999. My particular view of the Revelation is that it follows the sacking of Jericho. Seven days they marched around the city. This is the Seven years of the tribulation: The Seals (one per year). Then on the 7th day they marched around the city seven times: The Trumpets. Then on the seventh day, and the seventh time around the city, they yelled, and the walls came tumbling down:The Vials. With this outline in view, I believe that it is possible that the Y2K problem might be the Great Sword that takes Peace (prosperity) from the earth, of the Second Seal. If it is, this starts basically Jan of 2,000, so the First Seal, in theory, would start in Jan of 1,999. So all of these things have been centering around Jan of 99. One way or another it is going to be an intriqueing year.}

> If you don't know what I'm referring to, let me know and I'll find the info for you.
>
> Love, Dee ~~ [David Hill's mom!]
>
> p.s. you know, it's getting harder and harder to be patient ... seems > I become a squarer peg in a rounder hole everyday! If it weren't for > 5 doves & Marilyn Agee sites, I would think I was totally "alone" ...

{You're not kidding! These two sites are full of people that Love the Lord and are patiently waiting for His return. I am sure that whenever the Rapture occurs, that these people have proven their Love for Him, and they will be taken. There is a 'feeling' of comraderee about both of these sites, that I haven't experienced since I was involved with the Navigators in the Military. For them, the Lord was there everything. This is the attitude of the Spouse in Song of Songs, and it is a pleasure to have fellowshiped in cyber space with them all. Can't wait for the day when we will all be able to fellowship around our Lord in His Kingdom!}

> even some pastor on TV this a.m. [Cathedral on the Hill in N.C.] seemed to be talking
> nonsense ... as well as the next pastor [Church of Excitement in Houston] ... WOW,
> I feel like the one world church is already in operation. Will we celebrate at the
> end of the millenium when Satan is burned up in the Lake of Fire?

{If we don't, the Angels probably will...} HERE THERE OR IN THE AIR!!!!!!!!!!

My reply

I agree that the sign of Jericho portrays the Tribulation. The seals do seem to be broken one per year at first. However, when the Tribulation gets shortened, the sixth and seventh seals are broken close together. In Rev. 6:12,13, "when he had opened the sixth seal...there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." At this point, pieces of the asteroid are starting to strike Earth. We know that this is the day when "the great day of his wrath is come" (Rev. 6:17).
At this point, the Tribulation saints are caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture (Rev. 7:14). Then the seventh seal is broken in Rev. 8:1. By the second trumpet, "a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea (the Mediterranean, Zeph. 2:4,5). By the third trumpet, "a great star (aster) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp...fell." The small rocks are probably jettisoned as a binary asteroid breaks apart at the Roche Limit, about 11,000 miles out. This allows one "mountain" to strike the Mediterranean Sea and the other "star" to obliterate Babylon. The time between the sixth and seventh seals is shortened.
Jericho means "his moon" or "his month." I believe that this ties in with the first day of the Millennium, the day not only of Jesus' birth on Earth, but the day of his Coronation in Heaven--Tishri 1, the new moon, the Feast of Trumpets. Following the Coronation is the Marriage of the Lamb, the catching up of the Tribulation saints and the Judgement Seat of Christ. That is when the seven trumpet judgments hit Earth at noon (Job 20:23-29; Psa. 55:23).
You can tell that the sixth seal and the seventh are in close proximity for Rev. 8:12 says, "And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of them was darkened." This asteroid impact phenomenon continues the action begun under the sixth seal. It will be completed under the seven vials.
> I believe that it is possible that the Y2K problem might be the Great Sword that
> takes Peace (prosperity) from the earth, of the Second Seal.

The Tribulation begins in peace. I think the Y2K bug will hit before the seven-year peace treaty is signed on the Feast of Weeks in 2001. The Y2K problem may catapult the nations into the final form of world government and world banking system though. Maybe the beast, the huge computer at Brussels, is already Y2K compliant and ready to take over from other mainframe computers that are not.

As for the Rapture being in winter, have a look at Mt. 24:20: "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day." In the preceding verse, Jesus was talking about "THEM that are with child." Then he changed to "pray YE that YOUR..." Was he referring back to the "disciples" (Mt. 24:3) to whom he was talking? It, like many other scriptures, could have a double application.

It agrees with Song of Solomon 2:10-12: "Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. For, lo, the WINTER IS PAST, the rain is over and gone; The flowers appear on the earth..."

> {The other thing is that the Fulfillment of the Sign of the Women giving birth will
> occur this coming fall, in Oct. This would be 9 months from this January, the time
> of 'Conception'.

Would you fill me in on this sign that is to take place next fall? Does it have to do with Rev. 12:1,2? I think the woman there is Israel.

> There is a 'feeling' of comraderee about both of these sites

There is, isn't there. We are dealing with each other in agape love. That is as it should be, according to the scriptures. If we are allowing the Lord to lead us, we know that he would have us be kind one to another. We also know that he would have us forgive one another any unkindness that slips in because we are not yet perfect. Agape and Shalom

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Thanks for message re 2 returns of Jesus. New to me. Looks right.

We shall not be in ignorance and study of the Word reveals that Haggai 1:1 links to 1/6/1999ad (1/6/6000 God.) 11TH August 1999ad. THE 1ST DAY OF THE 6TH MONTH in God's jewish chronology. This is the key to unlock much.

11th August 1999 is the Solar Eclipse centred over Ararat, Garden of Eden, Lake Van at 1:145 am. Now see.......!

1/6/1999ad is 2520 years from 1/6/520bc. The apparently 1 year missing, is only the year '0' at Jesus birth.

The cosmos didn't stop between 1ad and 1bc. A remarkable linking.
Furthermore there is another Eclipse in 1/1/6007 or our 2006ad over Jerusalem.
These two are 6 1/2 years apart. Perhaps the explanation is that Jesus said, He would cut back the time (7 years) so that all would not perish.
So we have 1/2 a year of God starting 1/6/1999 and ending 6 full years later, 6 1/2 years.
This is only two of the signs in the heavens. 1994/6/7 saw the others.
Signs on earth. The EU is steamrollering along and wants a man to stand to represent EU Foreign Policy.
All the power of the EU but he would not actually possess his own kingdom(state). I think that this man when we see him, and IF we see him, will be the antichrist.
Whilst I can see the dates of the Tribulation, I cannot see the exact date of Jesus return, only see it roughly in conjunction with the Tribulation.
I trust in the Lord with all my heart and lean not on my own understanding.
may God bless you even more than He has done, in Jesus wonderful name.

My reply

> 1/6/1999ad is 2520 years from 1/6/520bc. The apparently 1 year missing, is only
> the year '0' at Jesus birth.
>
> The cosmos didn't stop between 1ad and 1bc.

There is no zero year between BC 1 and 1 AD. The series goes BC 3, BC 2, BC 1, 1 AD, 2 AD, 3 AD, etc.

> I think that this man when we see him, and IF we see him, will be the antichrist.

I used to connect the 10 kings with the EEC. However, when I realized that Revelation was written as if the Rapture was at hand, I found that the 10 kings of Rev. 17:12 were not yet in power at the time of the Rapture. They come to power as the Tribulation begins in Rev. 13.

I now realize that the 10 kings are probably the leaders over the ten regions of the globe under the Tribulation world government.

> Whilst I can see the dates of the Tribulation, I cannot see the exact date of Jesus
> return, only see it roughly in conjunction with the Tribulation.

I think I can help here. Hosea 6:1-3 says that the Lord will come as the former rain (Tishri 1) and as the latter rain (Nisan 1). The latter rain is the Second Advent.

This is confirmed in Ezek. 29. Verse 17 sets the day, "in the first month, in the first day of the month." This is Nisan 1 (Ezek. 45:18,21). Then verse 21 says, "In that day will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (Logos, Word) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."

I think this Nisan 1 (April 6, 2008) is seven Jewish months after the Day of God's Wrath on Tishri 1, 5768 (our Sept. 13, 2007) (Ezek. 39:12). The year 5768 is a Jewish leap year, when a 13th month is added between Adar and Nisan.

Thus, Christ will return on the same day all the other Israelite kings officially took office. Nisan 1 is the first day of the Regnal Year because Christ is King of kings, the first day of the Sacred Year because he is Lord of lords.

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