Pro and Con 248

Uploaded 1-16-99, PM

Incoming Email

From Finland: Here is an exerpt from Hebraic Heritage newsletter, by Charles Ryalls. It may not contain any staggering novelty, rather confirming what you have said

"...Num 19:19 The man who is clean is to sprinkle the unclean person on the third and seventh days, and on the seventh day he is to purify him.

There may be a reason why these two days were specified. The clue is in Leviticus 23, the feast days of the Lord. There were seven days that were to be a Holy convocation, a Holy gathering. These are the days of the Lord:

1 The first day of Unleavened Bread
2.The seventh day of Unleavened Bread
3.Pentecost
4.Rosh Ha Shannah or Trumpets
5.Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement
6.The First day of Sukkot or Tabernacles
7.The Eighth day of Sukkot which is Simchat Torah, the eighth day.

The purification with the ashes of the Red Heifer was to take place on the third day and the seventh day. Looking at this list may bring us yet another picture of Gods plan and His timing. The third day of the Holy yearly cycle is Pentecost. This is when both the old covenant, the law, was given and the new covenant when the Spirit was poured out on the believers and the church began.  We must remember that the things that are connected to Yeshua are New covenant, which speaks to the Spirit and not just the outward things. So the first step of out purification is on our Pentecost experience as we receive the Holy Spirit. And the completion of it is on the seventh day, when we are delivered from the body of sin and death, in the resurrection or Rapture. So lets look for a moment to the picture that is painted for us in the seventh day of convocation which is the eighth day of the feast of Tabernacles.... "

My reply

> The third day of the Holy yearly cycle is Pentecost.

I don't count it the third. I count Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits, then Pentecost--the 4th.

Lev. 23:4,5 says, "These are the feasts of the LORD, even HOLY CONVOCATIONS (i.e., all the feasts are holy convocations), which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover." Doesn't this sound like Passover should be listed as number one?

Verses 6-8 say, "And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation...in the seventh day is an holy convocation." I would list Unleavened Bread as feast number two. There are two holy convocations associated with it.

The Feast of Firstfruits is in verses 10-14. Pentecost is in 15-22. Trumpets is in 24-25. Day of Atonement is in 27-32. Tabernacles is in 34-36. Then verse 37 says, "These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be HOLY CONVOCATIONS." All the feasts are sandwiched between statements saying that the feasts are holy convocations.

Therefore, I would think that Pentecost was the fourth feast, Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits, then Pentecost. The other three would be Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles.

The Lord's number is seven, and he works in sevens. There are seven feasts, two of which are kept for seven days (Lev. 23:6,34). The first day of Tabernacles is "an holy convocation" (v. 34). Then after the seventh day of Tabernacles, "on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation...it is a solemn assembly" (23:36). This finishes the schedule for the year.

I can't see leaving out Passover and Firstfruits and substituting the seventh day of Unleavened Bread and the eighth day of Tabernacles to make up a list of seven.

On my copy of the Talmudic Jewish Calendar, Passover is listed as Nisan 15, Unleavened Bread and Firstfruits are not even listed. Why? How can they ignore Lev. 23:5,6? It says, "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread." It seems like some want to manipulate things to make it say what they want it to say, rather than taking it as it is.

It reminds me of the list of the ten commandments on the flyleaf of my Confraternity Version of the Bible ("Saint Joseph TEXTBOOK EDITION"). The second commandment is omitted and the last one is split into two. Here is the list, verbatim:
1. I am the Lord Thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.
2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord Thy God in vain.
3. Remember thou keep holy the Sabbath Day.
4. Honor thy father and thy mother.
5. Thou shalt not kill.
6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7. Thou shalt not steal.
8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
10.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.

In the same Bible, page 78, I will quote from Exodus 20:3-17. (The Numbers, emphasis and paragraphing are mine.)
1."YOU SHALL NOT have other gods besides me.
2. YOU SHALL NOT carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; YOU SHALL NOT bow down before them or worship them. For I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation; but bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.
3. YOU SHALL NOT take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain....
4. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day...
5. Honor your father and your mother...
6. YOU SHALL NOT kill
7. YOU SHALL NOT commit adultery.
8. YOU SHALL NOT steal.
9. YOU SHALL NOT bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. YOU SHALL NOT covet your neighbor's house. YOU SHALL NOT covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male or famale slave, nor his ox or ass, nor anything else that belongs to him."

Compare that with the previous list. Where is number 2? "YOU SHALL NOT CARVE IDOLS" got lost somewhere. There is no more right to divide number 10 than there would be to divide number 2. Both have two "YOU SHALL NOT"s concerning the same subject.

This kind of thing is why we are to compare everything with Scripture.

Incoming Email

This is in reference to P@C 245 where the Catholic person gave his/her recitation on the error of your ways.

I would suggest that this person should take a look at the Word of God, the Bible, and close up all the other books where the priests are telling him what the Bible says. This person appears educated enough to make his/her own judgement without having the interference of the Catholic Church's mis-representation of numerous facts. If this person should to choose to read the Bible for him/herself, please make sure you read a translation other than the Catholic. The Catholic Bible has changed the ten commandments (among other things). If this fact doesn't concern you, so be it. The option of coming out of the fog is yours and yours alone. Good luck. Agape

My reply

Strange that we both had the ten commandments on our minds at this particular time....

Actually, the ten commandments have not been changed in the TEXT of the Confraternity, Douay or The New American Bible. In materials that I have, the changed version is printed on the flyleaf of my Confraternity Bible and on pages 71,72 of "This is the Faith: Catholic Theology for Laymen," by Rev. Francis J. Ripley....

The NAB says, "You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them." When I attended a Catholic wedding, the bride bowed down to an image of Mary.

From Ripley's "explanation of Catholic teachings for the layman," (and others) it seems to me, as it does to you, that the teachings differ from the actual scriptures. To me, this includes their own versions of the scriptures, and I have read every word in the three versions I mentioned.

I enjoyed reading these Catholic versions. The story of salvation is clear. In the Confraternity, John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, that those who believe in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting." Romans 10:9 says, "For if thou confess with thy mouth that Jesus is the Lord, and believe in thy heart that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be SAVED. For with the heart a man believes unto justice, and with the mouth profession of faith is made unto SALVATION."

Contrast that with Ripleys statement concerning baptism on page 210: "3. Water is necessary for its administration. 4. It removes all stain of original sin and all actual sin with the punishment due to it. 5. IT IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION."

That differs with what the actual scriptures say. The Bible does not say that we have to believe in Christ and be baptized with water to be saved." It does say, "For if thou confess with thy mouth that Jesus is the Lord, and believe in thy heart that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be SAVED."

If we follow what it does say, and forget what it does NOT say, we will be ok. I think "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (II Tim. 3:16). We just need to read it and obey it. It is God's instruction manual for passing our test. It should be studied. Nothing should be added, and nothing should be taken away.

Actually, if we are right about Christ, we can be wrong about other things and still make it to Heaven. Christ is our Saviour. Our faith in him is what saves us--not Church membership--not water baptism. In the New Testament, we find Heb. 10:38: "the just shall live by faith." In the Old Testament, we find Hab. 2:4: "the just shall live by his faith."

Man's test in the Old Testament boiled down to this: would he believe that God would send a Saviour/Messiah. Man's test in the New Testament is almost the same, would he believe that God sent a Saviour/Messiah.

Proverbs 30:4 (Conf.) asks, "What is his name, what is his son's name, if you know it?" He is YHVH (Yahweh). His son's name is Y'shua, meaning YHVH is Saviour. It is Iesous in Greek and Jesus in English.

Isa. 44:6 (Conf.) says, "Thus says the Lord (YHVH), Israel's King AND redeemer, the Lord (YHVH) of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; there is no God but me." Jesus Christ is the redeemer, the YHVH of hosts.

Jesus said, "I am the Alpha AND the Omega, the first AND the last, the beginning AND the end!....I am the root (YHVH) AND the offspring of David" (Jesus) (Rev. 22:13,16, Conf.).

"For God was truly in Christ, reconciling the world to himself" (II Cor. 5:19, Conf.). God "has spoken to us by (en,in) his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the world; who, being the brightness of his glory and the image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, has effected man's purgation from sin and taken his seat at the right hand of the Majesty on high" (Heb.1:2,3, Conf.).

By this, we see that Jesus is all powerful. He needs no help in saving us. If we believe in Him, He saves us. It is that simple. Nothing else is needed. The question today for all of us is, "What do you think of the Christ? Whose son is he?" (Mt. 22:42, Conf.).

Incoming Email

...REIGN OF IMMACULATE HEART OF MARY ("Roger C. Thibault") 1/13/98
...it certainly seems that the Reign of The Immaculate Heart of Mary will not necessarily coincide in a calendar fashion with the "Era Of Peace" at least in their beginnings. It looks as though we will enter into the Reign Of The Immaculate Heart of Mary more fully soon, but that there will still be a considerable amount of evil left to do battle with God's people. I suspect that even as we come to the apex of Mary's Reign, we will still be battling the New World Order folks and their demonic ideals in the early stages. A point is coming soon (perhaps with the Warning) however, when all men will know which side they are working for - God or Satan. ALL of those working for God will have JESUS & MARY on their lips and in their hearts. Those who do not, will be working for Satan, and since the veil hiding their evil will have been lifted, they will then openly do everything that they can to destroy God's people and His Church, the Catholic Church. So, in fact, during the early stages of the Reign Of The Immaculate Heart of Mary, it is my belief that we will see the greatest affront of the devil and his antichrists against Christians. That would be over the course of the next few years. Your thoughts on this? inFo@yellowstoneinfo.com

My reply

Please tell me where in the Bible it mentions "Mary's Reign"? I only believe what I find in Scripture. In His love

His reply

Then please hang on to Tradition as Saint Paul told you to. In Jesus & Mary, Roger Thibault

My reply

The scriptures were finished c.96 AD. Nothing else can be added (Rev. 22:18). If Scripture didn't say it then, it cannot be added. Read the Bible cover to cover. "Mary's Reign" is not mentioned. Neither is "the Reign of The Immaculate Heart of Mary,' or even "The Immaculate Heart of Mary."

We don't want to be like the religious heirarchy of whom Jesus said, "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Mark 7:7).

Acts 17:11 says, "These (Bereans) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and SEARCHED THE SCRIPTURES DAILY, WHETHER THOSE THINGS WERE SO." This is what we should do. Compare these things with Scripture. If Scripture says it, it is "so." If Scripture does not say it, it is NOT so. In this case, Scripture does NOT say it.

His reply

Where in Hell did your Protestant Bible come from? A runaway Catholic Priest who proceeded to cut and paste.

You'll notice that your Bible is seven books shorter than mine thanks to that heretic Martin. In Jesus & Mary, Roger T.

My reply

I have three Catholic Bibles, Confraternity, Douay and The New English Bible, also the Septuagint with Apocrypha. I have read every word in them. "Mary's Reign" is not mentioned. Neither is "the Reign of The Immaculate Heart of Mary,' or even "The Immaculate Heart of Mary."

...God loves you and would have you understand. You owe it to yourself to read your Bible, all of it, if you have not. In the Confraternity, John 8:32, Jesus said, "you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Father, I pray for Roger Thibault, that you will show him your truth. In Jesus' name, Amen.

Second Timothy 2:15 (Conf.) says, "Use all care to present thyself to God as a man approved, a worker that cannot be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth."

His reply

What mortal sin has dragged you away from your faith Marilyn? The faith that Jesus gave us. What mortal sin has dragged you away from the Catholic Church.

Sin has caused your blindness.

We read the Bible here.

Turn back to the Church that Jesus has given you.

This is not about Mary. This is about your adventure in sin and darkness.

In Jesus & Mary, now and forever, Amen Roger Thibault

My reply

I John 1:9 (Conf.) says, "If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all iniquity." I have already confessed every sin I can think of, and by so doing brought them all under the blood of Christ. His perfect sacrifice took sin out of the way as an issue in salvation. The question now is "What think ye of Christ? whose son is he?" (Mt. 22:42). It does not say that membership in any certain church group is an issue in salvation. You will not find that in the Bible anywhere. There are overcomers out of all seven church groups in the Apocalypse.

It is our own individual faith in Christ that saves us. I exercised my will, decided for Christ, prayed and told him that I accepted him as my own personal Saviour. Therefore, I was born into the family of God at that moment in time, and every past sin was wiped off the books forever. Have you done this? or are you trusting the Catholic Church to get you to Heaven? No church can do that. Only the Lord Jesus Christ can do that.

During the coming Tribulation, believers will have to come to terms with the sin in their lives and get all sin out of the way. Apocalypse 7:14 (Conf.) says, "These are they who have come out of the GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." The smart will do this now and not wait until they find themselves in the Tribulation, when "There will be the weeping, and the gnashing of teeth" (Mt. 24:51; Conf.)

In the Apocalypse, Jesus has a message to the "Church at Thyatira" (which means dominating female or continual sacrifice, i.e., the dominate church that keeps sacrificing the mass). Some of them will be overcomers and be taken to the Morning Star at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture. Others will find themselves in the Great Tribulation. Here is Apocalypse 2:18-29 in the Confraternity Version. It is written as if the Rapture was "at hand" (Apoc. 1:3;22:10) (i.e., it applies to us today). In God's agape love, I beseech you Lord to give Roger an ear to hear what you are saying to him. In Jesus' name, Amen. Jesus said,

"'And to the angel of the church at Thyatira write: Thus says the Son of God, who has eyes like to a flame of fire, and whose feet are like fine brass (symbol of judgment): I know thy works, thy faith, thy love, thy ministry, thy patience and thy last works (during the Tribulation), which are more numerous than the former. 'But I have AGAINST THEE that thou sufferest the woman Jezebel (maybe an apparition), who calls herself a prophetess, TO TEACH, and to seduce my servants, to commit fornication (joining, i.e., all religions joining in the coming World Church), and to eat of things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time that she might repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. Behold, I will cast her upon a bed, and those who commit adultery (join) with her into GREAT TRIBULATION (the last 3 1/2 years of the 7-year Tribulation), unless they repent of their deeds (i.e., confess their sins). And her children I will strike with death, and ALL THE CHURCHES (there are seven major groups, of which Philadelphia has no condemnion mentioned against her) shall know that I am he who searches desires and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works (rewards are according to works; salvation is according to Christ's sacrifice). 'But to you I say, to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not hold THIS TEACHING (the teaching of Jezebel) and do not know the DEPTHS OF SATAN (has to do with Jezebel's teachings), as they call them, I will not put upon you any other burden. But that which you have, hold fast till I come (at the Rapture). And to him who overcomes, and who keeps my works unto the end, I will give authority over the nations. And he shall rule them with a rod of iron, and like the potter's vessel they (those who know the depths of Satan) shall be dashed to pieces (by the asteroid of Apoc. 8:10), as I also have received from my Father; and I will give him (the one that does not know the depths of Satan) the morning star (Heaven). He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

There is a way not to be here during the GREAT TRIBULATION. In Jesus' message to the "Church at Philadelphia," (which means brotherly love), he said, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience (waiting), I too will keep thee FROM the hour of trial (the Tribulation), which is about to come (now, when the Rapture is "at hand") upon the WHOLE WORLD to try those who dwell upon the earth" (Apoc. 3:10).

At the Rapture, Jesus will say, "Come up hither" (Apoc. 4:1), and we will find ourselves in Heaven, on the Morning Star. "Rather with your eyes shall you behold and see the requital of the wicked" (Psa. 90 [91]:8).

You too can escape the GREAT TRIBULATION. Repent and have nothing to do with Jezebel's teachings. Then hold fast until Christ comes to take the true Bride of Christ to Heaven.

"Watch, then, praying at all times, that you may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that are to be, and to stand before the Son of Man" Luke 21:36 (Conf.).

His reply

Roger C. Thibault wrote: I suggest that you re-read the book of James. Martin Luther wanted to pull that one out to, but his confreres talked him out of it:

"It is our own individual faith in Christ that saves us." - Marilyn Agee

Always in Jesus & Mary, now and forever, AMEN!

Maxwell Smart

My reply

How did Maxwell Smart get in here?

I will reread James, as you suggest.

The Epistle of James just might be the first epistle to the Christians. It seems to have been written before Galatians and Romans at a time when Jewish Christians were still meeting in synagogues. The word "assembly" in Jas. 2:2 is "synagogue" in the Greek. There is also a good chance that James was the half brother of Jesus. The Lord saw to it that this epistle stayed in the canon of Scripture because it belonged there.

James doesn't exalt works as against faith, but he believes that true faith produces works, and it does.

I am working because I have tremendous faith. If I didn't have faith, I would see no reason to work as hard as I can go. I demonstrate my faith by my works. Of course, I also earn rewards for doing the Lord's work. Not that I am doing it for those rewards, I would do it without the hope of rewards, but the Lord has promised us rewards, nevertheless. Salvation is a free gift, but we can work for rewards.

James 2:14 in the NAB says, "My brothers, what good is it to profess faith without practicing it? Such faith has no power to save one, has it?" If it is true faith, it will produce works.

The Laodiceans will find out that at the time of the Rapture, Jesus will say to them, "because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spew you out of my mouth! You keep saying, 'I am so rich and secure that I want for nothing.' Little do you realize how wretched you are, how pitiable and poor, how blind and naked! Take my advice. Buy from me gold refined by fire if you would be truly rich. Buy white garments in which to be clothed, if the shame of your nakedness is to be covered. Buy ointment to smear on your eyes, if you would see once more. Whoever is dear to me I reprove and chastise. Be earnest about it, therefore. Repent!" (Rev. 3:16-19, NAB).

James gives an example of faith without works, then in 2:17,18 (NAB) he says, "So it is with the faith that does nothing in practice. It is thoroughly lifeless. To such a person one might say, 'You have faith and I have works--is that it?' Show me your faith without works, and I will show you the faith that underlies my works!"

We demonstrate our faith by our works. True faith results in action.

In 2:20-26 (NAB), James continued, "Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that without works faith is idle? Was not our father Abraham justified by his works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? There you see proof that faith was both assisting his works and implemented by his works. You also see how the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as justice'; for this he received the title 'God's friend.' You must perceive that a person is justified by his works and not by faith alone. Rahab the harlot will illustrate the point. Was she not justified by her works when she harbored the messengers and sent them out by a different route? Be assured, then, that faith without works is as dead as a body without breath."

In James 2:13,14 (NAB), he speaks of true wisdom. "If one of you is wise and understanding, let him show this in practice through a humility filled with good sense. Should you instead nurse bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, at least refrain from arrogant and false claims against the truth."

At the time when the Rapture is "at hand" (Rev. 1:3; 22:10), which is in our days, Jesus says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my PATIENCE, I too will keep thee FROM (i.e., out of) the hour of trial (the Tribulation), which is ABOUT TO COME upon the whole world to try those who dwell upon the earth. I come quickly; hold fast what thou hast, that no one receive thy crown." (Rev. 3:10,11, Conf.).

James has a section on patience. In it too, he says, "the coming of the Lord is AT HAND." It fits right in with Rev. 3:10. James 5:7-9, NAB, says, "Be patient, therefore, my brothers, until the coming of the Lord (at the Rapture). See how the farmer awaits the precious yield of the soil. He looks forward to it patiently while the soil receives the winter and the spring rains. You, too, must be patient. Steady your hearts, because the coming of the Lord is AT HAND. Do not grumble against one another, my brothers, lest you be condemned. See! The judge (Christ) stands at the GATE."

This "gate" is the "open door" set before the Philadelphians in Rev. 3:8. It is the "Open door to heaven" of Rev. 4:1 (NAB). As the Rapture takes place, Jesus will say, "Come up here."

The Philadelphians are the group who show brotherly love and for whom Jesus mentions no condemnation. They are out of "every race and tongue, of every people and nation" (Rev. 5:9,NAB). They are those that show their faith by their works. They do not have to be told to repent. They already have. They are ready for the Lord's return and are waiting "patiently while the soil receives the winter and the spring rains," as James said. After the spring rains are over, we have Pentecost, when I expect the Rapture.

the Song of Songs has a beautiful passage that also seems to suggest Pentecost for the Rapture. Song 2:10-14 (NAB) says, "My lover (Christ) speaks; he says to me, 'ARISE my beloved (the Bride of Christ), my beautiful one, and come! 'For see, the winter is past, the rains (the latter rains) are over and gone. The flowers appear on the earth, the time of pruning the vines has come, and the song of the dove is heard in our land (Apr.- Oct.). The fig tree puts forth its figs, and the vines, in bloom, give forth fragrance. ARISE, my beloved, my beautiful one, and come! O my dove in the clefts of the rock (i.e., in Christ), in the secret recesses of the cliff, Let me see you, let me hear your voice, For your voice is sweet, and you are lovely." Isn't that how a bride should sound, sweet?

The "pruning the vines" is very interesting. Jesus said that he is the vine, we are the branches, and we must abide in him. The lukewarm Laodiceans are to be spewed out of Christ's mouth at the time of the Rapture. They are not showing their faith by their works.

Salvation is ours through faith, but once we have faith, we are to lead the life of good deeds, showing our faith by our works. In Eph. 2:8-10 (NAB), Paul said, "I repeat, it is owing to his favor that salvation is yours through faith. This is not your own doing, it is God's gift; neither is it a reward for anything you have accomplished, so let no one pride himself on it. We are truly his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to lead the life of good deeds which God prepared for us in advance."

   Pro and Con 249   Or Return  Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@kiwi.net

send me e-mail now.

8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110, FAX (909) 697-8960


© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 1-16-99