Pro and Con 251
Uploaded 1-19-99, PM
Incoming EmailI have been visiting your site for some time now and appreciate your insights into Bible prophecy very much. I am a born again believer and student of the Bible.
Please explain what evidence you have to support the "putting forth of leaves" in Mt. 24:32 as being the Gaza Strip, Sinai, Golan Heights and West Bank. Is there scripture to back this up? Does the fig tree represent the people, the land or both?
The reason I ask is that I ran across another ministry that claims the Messianic Jewish movement started tin 1970 in Cincinnati, OH and is now worldwide is the "putting forth of leaves".
Also, in most every attempt to share your findings with other Christians I am rebuked with Mt. 24:36 and they don't want to hear anymore. Have you encountered this?
Your ministry is intensely interesting. My interpretation is that God is rewarding you for diligently seeking Him and using you to wake up people that will listen.
Keep on keeping on. God bless.
My reply I am glad you find my writings "intensely interesting." Really, the glory belongs to the Lord. I could never do this in my strength. I am now 70. The more my memory fades in ordinary things, the more I realize how much the Lord is helping with this project. When it comes to remembering verses, it is still there. Somehow, I know what I should write and can find the verses I need. It takes a lot of time, but it is not labored or hard. It flows in directions I would not have thought of in the beginning too. I ask the Lord to help me give people what they need to hear, not what I might want to tell them. He knows their hearts better than anyone. If a different direction comes to mind, I follow it.
The strange thing is when I learn as I write. My mind makes new associations I had not considered before, with His help I am sure. That happened when I was explaining Rev. 4:3 in my third book. It just suddenly hit me that the jasper and sardine stones were the first and last stones in the breastplate of the High Priest. I had not thought of that before that moment. That has happened to me when I was talking too. I learned that the "Little children" of I John 2:18 were the "last generation" as it came out of my mouth. I was astonished, but it made perfect sense, and I was talking to those of the last generation at the time.
> Please explain what evidence you have to support the "putting forth of leaves" in
> Mt. 24:32 as being the Gaza Strip, Sinai, Golan Heights and West Bank. Is there
> scripture to back this up? Does the fig tree represent the people, the land or both?
There is no Scripture that names those leaves, but history revealed it. That is why we were to watch. I think the fig tree is the nation of Israel rooted in the land of Israel. Joel 1:6,7 says, "a nation is come up upon MY LAND...He hath laid my vine waste, and barked MY FIG TREE."
The figs represent the people. Jer. 24:5,6 says, "Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah...and I will bring them again to this land." Hos. 9:10 says, "I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the FIG TREE at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame."
In the early days, because Israel did not obey God, they came under the five cycles of discipline listed in Lev. 26. The dispersion was predicted. Lev. 26:33 says, I will scatter you among the heathen." Symbolically, the fig tree was chopped down.
They were to return, be grafted into their old rootstock again. They are to be gathered twice, once before the Day of God's Wrath and again after it.
Zeph. 2:1,2 says, GATHER yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER come upon you...seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger."
Isa. 11:11 says, "in that day (the millennial Day of the Lord), that the Lord shall set his hand AGAIN THE SECOND TIME to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left."
Ezek. 34:12,13 says, "I will seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day (the Day of God's Wrath, first day of the Millennium), And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel."
Ezek. 28:25 says, "When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob. And they shall dwell safely therein...when I have executed JUDGMENTS upon all those that despise them round about them."
Ezek. 36:11,24 says, "I will settle you after your old estates...I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land."
In 1948, Israel was grafted back into her old rootstock. At that time, she did not grow leaves. She had to fight just to stay grafted in. A new graft has to "take" before the sap flows and it puts out new leaves.
The first time the new graft grew enduring leaves was in 1967. She ended the Six-Day war with about 400 times as much territory as she had going into it. She was attacked by Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. You know God helped her or she would have fallen against those odds. They meant to wipe her off the map. On June 1, on Radio Baghdad, President Aref of Iraq said, "we are resolved, determined and united, to achieve our clear aim of wiping israel off the map."
> The reason I ask is that I ran across another ministry that claims the Messianic
> Jewish movement started tin 1970 in Cincinnati, OH and is now worldwide is the
> "putting forth of leaves".
I think we have to go by Scripture. Joel 1:6,7 says, "MY LAND...MY FIG TREE."
> Also, in most every attempt to share your findings with other Christians I am rebuked
> with Mt. 24:36 and they don't want to hear anymore. Have you encountered this?
Of course, over and over. Those people do not stop to examine the scripture carefully. The word "knoweth" is present tense. It was true the day it was stated. Jesus did not say that we would never know. He told us to watch. What we were watching for was the Sign of the End of the Age (Mt. 24:3), when Israel grew leaves and fulfilled the fig tree parable.
When Israel took the rest of Jerusalem and the temple area, it fulfilled Lu. 21:24 too. It says, "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." This was a sign. Psa. 122,3 in the Jerusalem Bible says, "Jerusalem, built as a city, in ONE UNITED WHOLE, there the tribes go up, the tribes of Yahweh, A SIGN for Israel to give thanks."
You know, the funny thing is that Mt. 24:36 mentions the day and hour, but not the month or year. Even if we don't know the day and hour, it might be possible to know the month or year.
Right now, I think the Rapture will be next Pentecost, but I have found three dates for Pentecost. The Talmudic Jewish Sivan 6 is Friday, May 21. The Western Pentecost is Sunday, May 23. Figured according to Lev. 23:15,16, it is Sunday, May 23. The Eastern Orthodox, both Old and New Calendarists show Sunday, May 30. To me, Sunday, May 23 seems most likely, but it certainly is not locked in. I'll be happy if we just get the month and year right.
I'll certainly do my best to keep on keeping on. You too. See you in glory one of these days. Agape
Incoming Email Fwd: on "date-setting," from The Days of His Presence, By Francis Frangipane
...In the days ahead many will be stirred by proclamations, both true and false, of ominous events set for fulfillment on specific dates. However, we are not being prepared for a "date" but for a marriage. It is the depth of our day-by-day relationship with Christ that defines walking with God at the end of the age....
What does it mean to "follow" Jesus but that we walk faithfully with Him throughout our life. The fact is, we anticipate the nearness of the Lord, but we do not know when He might return. While I believe we are very near to the end of the age, still it may be many years before some of the unfulfilled prophecies come to pass. Regardless, our call is to follow the Lamb -- to walk with Him every day....
Jesus said the days prior to His return would be as the days of Noah. Let us look again at Noah's life. God did not give Noah a predetermined date specifying when the flood would come. The Lord gave Noah two things: a task, which was to build the ark, and time to get the job done....
God told Noah to build the ark. When the task was completed, then the flood came. We also have a task, a vision from God: build the House of the Lord and participate in the harvest of the nations. Jesus did not say, "When evil gets worse the harvest begins." He said, "when the crop permits . . . the harvest has come" (Mark 4:29)....
My reply > we do not know when He might return. While I believe we are very near to the end of the
> age, still it may be many years before some of the unfulfilled prophecies come to pass.
I do not know if you mean the Rapture or the Second Advent. I don't think there are any unfulfilled prophecies that have to come to pass before the Rapture. I think it will take place in the seven good years, as when Joseph took up a fifth of the grain in Egypt. The seven bad years represent the Tribulation. As for the Second Advent, I think it will be Nisan 1, 5768 (our Apr. 6, 2008).
The first day of the Jewish Regnal Year seems certain. Ezek. 29:17 sets the day: "in the first month, in the first day of the month" (Nisan 1, Ezek. 45:18,21). Then verse 21 says, "In that day (Nisan 1) will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel (Christ) to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (Logos, Word) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."
As for the year, here are some things to consider. I think the Sign of the End of the Age was the Six-Day War of 1967 (when Israel grew leaves, Sinai, West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza Strip, fulfilling Mt. 24:32-34) and took all of Jerusalem (fulfilling Lu. 21:24). I think that one 40 year generation from 1967 (Jewish 5728) will be the end of the age (1967 + 40 = 2007) (5728 + 40 = 5768; our 2007/2008).
I think this age ends and the millennial Day of the Lord starts as Tishri 1, 5768 begins. Tishri 1 is our Sept. 12/13, 2007. On our calendar, it looks like the end of the age is on Sept. 12 and the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord is on Sept. 13. Remember, Jesus said to watch. The Oslo Accords seem to tie in with the seven good years and the seven bad years.
The Oslo Accords probably were the barebone outline of the final seven-year peace treaty that will be CONFIRMED (Dan. 9:27) as the Tribulation/Seventieth Week of Daniel starts. It seems significant that they were signed Sept. 13, 1993 and ratified in Israel three days later on Tishri 1.
Sept. 13, 1993 + 7 good years + 7 bad years = Sept. 13, 2007 (Tishri 1, 5768).
Tishri 1, 5754 + 7 good years + 7 bad years = Tishri 1, 5768 (our Sept. 13, 2007).
They both end up on the same day in 2007. This seems too good to not be intentional. It is marked in one way on our calendar and in another way on the Jewish one. Could you choose a better way to mark the day?
I think that Tishri 1, 5768 (our Sept. 13, 2007) is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, that this is the Day of God's Wrath, and that the 2300-day Tribulation, figured by Jewish inclusive reckoning, of Dan. 8:14 runs from the Feast of Weeks in 5761 (our 2001) to this Feast of Trumpets in 5768 (our 2007).
There are seven months between the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent (Ezek. 39:12). The Jewish year 5768 is a leap year. Therefore, there are seven months from Tishri 1 to Nisan 1. Is God trying to show us something?
> God did not give Noah a predetermined date specifying when the flood would come.
Noah would have known that the Lord said of man, "his days shall be an hundred and twenty years" (Gen. 6:3). Noah was told seven days ahead of time after the Ark was built. Gen. 7:4 says, "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth." Therefore, Noah knew ahead of time when the flood would come.
> Jesus did not say, "When evil gets worse the harvest begins." He said,
> "when the crop permits . . . the harvest has come" (Mark 4:29)....
Mark 4:28,29 says, "For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade (i.e., the Old Testament saints), then the ear (the Church saints), after that the full corn in the ear (the Tribulation saints). But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come."
I believe that there are two Raptures, Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath. The Pre-Wrath Rapture is on the same day that God's Wrath hits Earth. They are caught up (Rev. 7:14) between the breaking of the sixth (Rev. 6:12) and seventh seals (Rev. 8:1).
In Rev. 14:14-19, the first reaping is the Pre-Wrath Rapture: "for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe." The second reaping is to gather "the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God."
I like what I Peter 1:4-22 says, "You have "an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME (year?). Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season (oligos, puny, BRIEF DURATION OF TIME), if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the TRIAL OF YOUR FAITH, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at THE APPEARING OF JESUS CHRIST: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory....Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope (the "blessed hope") to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST (the Rapture)...Be ye holy; for I am holy....Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently."
I John 2:18: "Little children, it is the last TIME (year?): and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last TIME."
While looking at I John 2, we can see something else that we should pay attention to in these latter days. These little children seem to represent the last generation. Verses 20-28 are very interesting: "But ye have an unction (annointing) from the Holy One, and ye know ALL things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye KNOW it."
What can you exclude from ALL things? Don't you think we might at least get a seven-day warning like Noah? And what about Mark 13:23? Jesus said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you ALL things." For me, I am watching and searching the Scriptures to see if things I hear are so.
Incoming Email Jesus Freak wrote: I would just like to express something to you that I feel very strongly about. This is in regard to you thinking you know the approximate dates that events in the future will take place. NOBODY knows the exact date that the Rapture will occur. The only one who knows is God himself. I just dont understand how and where you get this false information about the returning. Doesn't it state clearly in the Bible that nobody knows the day nor the hour that we will be taken to Heaven? So I guess what I don't understand is how you think that you can determine when "the end" is. Do you at all know where I'm coming from? Obviously you have taken time to read through some of the Bible, but if you really wanted to make correct statements, you would know that there are none. There are no certainties or guarentees when the Lord will come. With your page on the Internet, you probably have some people all worked up about the Rapture and they think, "Well, I can wait until then to become a Christian." But you never know, God could come tomorrow and then they have lost their chance at getting into the Kingdom of Heaven. I'm not accusing you of not being a Christian by any means, I am just saying that I think some of your interpritations of the Bible and what it says about the coming of the Lord, is not 100% correct. He will come in his own time. He's not going to look on your webpage and say, "Well I guess I better return on so-and-so date so this guy doens't look like a fool!" Right now I am in the midst of reading probably the most eye-opening novel ever. Left Behind. And it has made me realize so much about what it's going to be like when all the non-believers are left here on earth while the Christians are being blessed in Heaven. And in the novel, I noted that they gave no dates whatsoever. No year that it was all happening in or anything. The authors of the book are obviously well knowledged about the Rapture since they have written a complete novel about it and a series to accompany it, but even then they don't tell exactly what dates things are happening on. Although I may only be 14 years old, don't think I dont know where I'm coming from. God has done a real number on my life in the past few months and has really changed who I am. And I give Him all the glory. Thank you for your time and consideration. In Christ
My reply > I just dont understand how and where you get this false information about the returning.
How do you know it is false? And how can you judge if you don't understand how I figured it?
> Doesn't it state clearly in the Bible that nobody knows the day nor
> the hour that we will be taken to Heaven?
Mt. 24:36 says, "But of that DAY and HOUR knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
The word "knoweth" is present tense. It was true the day it was stated. Jesus did not say that we would never know. Also, it does not include the month or year at all. Thus, wouldn't you agree that we might be able to figure out the month and year? I am hoping for Pentecost, May, 1999.
Mark 13:23 says, "take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you ALL things." As for me, I am watching and searching the scriptures for clues.
The Rapture is as the days of Noah. Noah knew the year (Gen. 6:3). He also knew the day (Gen. 7:4).
> Obviously you have taken time to read through some of the Bible
That is the understatement of the year. I have read every word in over 15 different versions of the Bible. How many have you read?
> With your page on the Internet, you probably have some people all worked up about the
> Rapture and they think, "Well, I can wait until then to become a Christian."
That would be a foolhardy thing to do. Not only would they be risking that Christ would not come until then, they would not earn one single reward. They would be saved yet so as by fire. Eternity is a long time to wish you had earned rewards while you had the chance.
> I think some of your interpritations of the Bible and what
> it says about the coming of the Lord, is not 100% correct.
You are right. No human being is 100% correct. Only God is 100% correct. However, I search the scriptures and do what Jesus told us to do, "Watch."
> He's not going to look on your webpage and say, "Well I guess I better
> return on so-and-so date so this guy doens't look like a fool!"
Of course not, and I am a woman.
> Right now I am in the midst of reading probably the most eye-opening novel ever.
> Left Behind.
How will you know if things anyone writes are correct? There are all kinds of wild ideas out there. The only rock-hard truth we have is the Bible. It is better to read it first so you have something to judge everything else by.
It is easier to start with the New Testament, then read from Isaiah through Malachi, before starting with Genesis to read it all the way through. I started in Genesis four times and gave it up. After I knew the prophecies, that dry old history of Israel came to life. I realized that they played out little skits to help us understand prophecy. After I had read the prophecies, I enjoyed searching for types. Things happened to Israel for examples, or types, of things that will happen here at the end of the age. The search is fascinating. Once the Bible really gets hold of you, it won't let go.
> Although I may only be 14 years old, don't think I dont know where I'm
> coming from. God has done a real number on my life in the past few months
Praise the Lord. I am 70 years old, and the Lord started working mightily in my life when I was about 30.
As for whether I am right about the Rapture or not, don't worry about it. Maybe I am, and maybe I'm not. Just confess every known sin committed since you accepted Christ. He will then cleanse you of all unrighteousness (I John 1:9). Then you are as a wise virgin with enough of the oil of the Holy Spirit to go when Jesus comes for his Bride, whenever it is.
God bless you richly in your studies of His Word. These are exciting times. It is so neat to have the chance to participate in the event of a lifetime, the Rapture. Many would have loved to have the chance not to have to die, but lived out their lives too soon.
Here is Peter's list of things we should do so we won't fail.
II Peter 1:1,4-10 says, "SIMON Peter...to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity (agape love, God's love). For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind (like the Laodiceans, Rev. 3:14-22), and cannot see afar off (i.e., Heaven), and hath forgotten that he was purged from his OLD sins (when he accepted Christ). Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Agape, Marilyn
Incoming Email Any thoughts on the probable disappointment/depression that one may feel getting up out of bed on the 24th of May and finding out that the rapture has not occurred? Do you have a contingency plan for a subsequent "date"? (I am not being sarcastic as I suspect that will be a definite possibility...the depression, I mean.) Best Regards
My reply I thought the Rapture would be last Pentecost. I was disappointed, but nothing could destroy my faith. The Rapture has to be before the Tribulation, and that is not far off. If it doesn't happen this coming Pentecost, I will look for it the following PENTECOST. There has to be some kind of gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation, and I think the Tribulation will start on Pentecost in 2001.
I did not mean to capitalize that. It just came out that way. Neither my shift key nor caps lock key was down.
The gap is revealed when you compare Rev. 17:12 with Rev. 13:1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ (Apocalypse) is written as if the Rapture were at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3 and 22:10). It is at hand when Rev. 17:12 says, And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast." In Rev. 13:1, when the Tribulation begins, all ten kings are crowned.
Just get ready and stay ready. When we have confessed our sins, we are filled with the Spirit of Christ and are counted as wise virgins ready with enough oil of the Holy Spirit when the Bridegroom comes. When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we are earning rewards for our good deeds too.
Pro and Con 252 Or Return
Contact me for more information at: firstname.lastname@example.org
8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110, FAX (909) 697-8960
© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee