Pro and Con 252
Uploaded 1-21-99, PM
Incoming Email Re: Why don't you listen?
Dear Jesus Freak: Time and time again Marilyn has expressed her "opinion" on the subject of the rapture. She has spent the greater portion of her 70 years studying to show her self approved...She has gleaned silver and gold from the Word far more than most of us would ever mined on our own, which only validates the intervention of Gods Holy Spirit in Marilyn's studies. I personally believe not only in her, but also possess her longing and desire for our Lord's return. This concept of not knowing when the Lord will return is nonsense in so much as anyone (that is watching) recognizes how close we are to the end...it's not rocket science here, it's faith.
I applaud your diligence and hours of effort to keep up the study and this web site. Our Lord will bless you for it...and those of you that wish to be critical, please back it up with scripture, and most importantly, keep it within the guidelines of "loving one another". It really bruises our spirits to see others who profess Jesus' love to attack so viciously. Love in Jesus
Incoming Email I am captured by your insights into the end times. I was raised Catholic and still worship in a Catholic Church. I have let go of my non-scriptural Catholic "traditions" although it took many years and was wrought with fear and insecurity. I can understand the outrage of Roger T. You are exposing the errors in a foundation that sometimes uses fear and damnation to enlist compliance. And when one is born into that system it is very difficult to break out. I am 47 and had a born again experience about 10 years ago. Being a 12 stepper and exposing myself to daily scriptural reading and studying has led me to a place where now my focus is on my SAVIOUR. It used to be on Transsubstantiation, Confessionals, Mortal Sin, Purgatory, Mary's Apparitions, Infant Baptism, Holy Days of Obligation, Trying harder and harder to do good works when I didn't have an new heart in Christ. I don't believe all Catholics are as mislead as I was but there is certainly that tendency. I now embrace all my Christian bretheren and hope they will embrace me as a relatively newly converted Christian. Last thought: Don't ask me why I still worship in a Catholic Church...I don't seem to have a good answer other than I haven't been lead to another. (Or am I just too afraid of what I might find outside ... something very similar to the inside??) Best Regards and many thanks
My reply > exposing myself to daily scriptural reading and studying has
> led me to a place where now my focus is on my SAVIOUR.
Praise the Lord. That came about by reading God's instruction manual, the Bible. He gave it to us so we would have a chance to pass our test. Too many do not read it and therefore have no basis of making a sound judgment of whether something they hear is right or not. We can't trust ANY church to be 100% right all the time. No human being is infallible. Only God can be right all the time. We are told to search the scriptures daily to see if these things are so. Many will read something like the Mac Bible to learn how to use their computers, but neglect to read God's instructions on how to be saved and how to earn rewards in Heaven. These are the meatier things, and they often get neglected the most.
It is not hard. In Mt. 11:30, Jesus said, "my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
> Trying harder and harder to do good works when I didn't have an new heart in Christ. I
> don't believe all Catholics are as mislead as I was but there is certainly that tendency.
Now you know how easy it is for people to get so caught up in ritual that they think they are saved when they don't even know how to be saved. They are going through lots of motions, but omitting the central gospel, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" (Rom. 10:9).
> I now embrace all my Christian bretheren and hope they will embrace me as a
> relatively newly converted Christian
We do embrace you and rejoice with you over your triumph. Nothing matters more. Jesus said that the truth shall make you free. You are now part of the spiritual Body of Christ, just as we are. Christ indwells each believer at the moment we believe in Him. He said that he would never leave us, so we are never alone. Through the Spirit of Christ, we are all linked together in one body. Which church we worship in is not nearly as important as our saving faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
He is the Creator himself. Heb. 1:1-3 says, "GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these LAST DAYS spoken unto us by (en, in) his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high."
The "last days" above refers to the 7,000 years of man's test. There are seven 1,000-year days. The midpoint of the 7,000 years had already past, because 4,000 years had already gone by. Mankind has been living in the last days ever since that time. We are either in or close to the 6,000th year now. Christ will rule the final 1,000 years, and we will rule with him. Rev. 20:4 says, "and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." He is the Creator, and he will be the perfect ruler. What a priviledge it will be to help rule with him at the helm.
Some people think we will stay on Earth for 1,000 years. I don't think so. I think we will do His bidding in setting up the Millennial Government, then go home (i.e., to Heaven). We can travel back and forth if our work for the Lord requires it.
King David will be resurrected and be put back on his throne. Christ will be as God and David will be a prince under him. Jer. 30:9 says, "they shall serve the LORD (YHVH) their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." Ezek. 34:24 says, "I the LORD (Christ is the LORD (YHVH) of hosts, Isa. 44:6) will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD (YHVH) have spoken it."
> Don't ask me why I still worship in a Catholic Church
I won't. The Lord will honor your faith wherever you worship HIM. In Rev. 2:25,28, Jesus said, "hold fast till I come...And I will give him the morning star (Heaven)." Just make sure that you do not pray to anyone but the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ. James 1:5-7 says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord." In John 14:13,14, Jesus said, "whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it."
Also, when we first believe in Christ, all our past sins are wiped off the books. We have a brand new start. When we sin after that, we must confess it to God. I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he (the Lord) is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and the cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Incoming Email Just thought I'd share about 2 flashes of light which i saw last May 23rd about 6AM (I live in Pittsburgh, PA). Don't know the significance except they seemed to be like meteorites or "shooting stars" but went from West to East (maybe symbolic of the Rapture?)
My reply That's one of those things that is hard to tell. I just tuck them in the back of my mind and see what develops. Hope it is a sign.
Incoming Email I just wanted you to know how much I appreciate your website.
I saw your exchange with the person who was talking about the divinity and reign of Mary. Dangerous stuff. If you have heard of Perry Stone, he points out the Fatima connection. We are hearing of the apparitions and the "Our Lady of Fatima". Stone believes this is where the False church (who denies Jesus et. al. which we are already seeing) and Islam gets together around "Our lady of Fatima" Fatima was the name of Mohammed's daughter. Much more there, but need to refer to Stone's writings.
Anyone who professes to be a Christian and can't tell the end is near needs to simply open their eyes (wars, famines, pestilence, natural calamities, NWO, Y2k, Euro, Iraq, Israel, etc) and their hearts and the truth is here; now. Best regards
My reply Thanks for letting me know you appreciate my Web site. It consumes just about every minute I don't absolutely have to be doing something else.
I agree with you. All the pieces are falling in place so fast that the Tribulation can't be far off any way you figure it.
Incoming Email As usual I am appalled at the tone of some who come to your page.
It seems that Mr. Roger Thibault is the one holding on to tradition. History has proven that the Catholic church, "Rome", has been responsible for some of the most heinous crimes against humanity in existence.
Most obviously, the "Inquisition" and the blessing by the pope on Hitler during the Second World War, not to mention the persecution of the Jew in every country in Europe during the past 1900 years. Apparently Mr. Thiebault has not read any history books much less the Bible.
Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
The Papacy held men in bondage for over 1400 years, it was called the "Dark Ages", until the Reformation occurred via the Holy Spirit. Indeed, what tradition is Mr Thiebault holding on to? The infallibility of the pope or redemption through Jesus Christ.
I've not heard catholic rhetoric like this for many years.
My reply Roger is hardline. I have no hope of him changing one iota, but he can't say he wasn't warned. He doesn't know his Bible, or he would cite Scripture to back up his position. No. That's not quite right. He doesn't know his Bible, or he wouldn't hold to his position. Scripture won't support "Mary's reign" or "The reign of the Immaculate Heart of Mary." It just is not there.
Some Catholics are not like Roger. Years ago, I had a college-age boy come to our house one week after he accepted Christ after listening in on a conversation between a Christian and his friend. At that time, his friend did not accept Christ, but he did, on his own, afterward. The first thing he asked us to do at our Bible studies was pray for his family, all raised as Catholic. We did, and saw miracles take place. One by one, they all came to accept Christ as their Saviour, parents, sister, brother and lots of kids. The sister closest in age to him was first, she went to his baptism at a Christian Church, and said, "I went in not understanding and came out understanding. She joined our Bible studies.
She had mentioned to her dad that Babylon was to be rebuilt. When he saw an article in the Los Angeles Times that Babylon was being rebuilt, he yelled and asked her what Marilyn said about Babylon. She said, "That it would be rebuilt." He accepted Christ that night.
Many of these people were raised in the Catholic Church because their parents were. They were baptized as babies and think that they are therefore saved. They don't seem to be told that they each must exercise their will and make a definite decision on their own. They go through all the rituals so it seems that they would be saved. Only the Lord knows which ones really are saved and which ones are just trusting the church to get them to Heaven.
If you ask them if they are Christians, they will tell you, "Yes," and maybe they are, and maybe they are not. If you ask them if they have a personal relationship with Christ, you have a better chance to find out the truth and help them to go a step farther than they ever have before.
Instead of saying the Our Father and the Rosary so many times, one sweet prayer, straight from the heart and in their own words, telling the Lord that they accept Jesus Christ as their own personal Saviour will do it, and their lives will be changed. Christ will baptise them with his Holy Spirit and lead them gently, bit by bit. He doesn't dump everything on us at once. He is gentle and kind, loving and patient. The true faith in Him that is in our hearts is what really counts. If we are right about Him, we can be wrong about other things and still make it to Heaven.
After accepting Christ as their own personal Saviour, they should read the New Testament before trying to read the Bible all the way through from the first page. As they read, the Lord will help them understand what they need to understand at that moment. On the second reading, he will show them more. There is so much information packed into that book that we could not figure it all out in a lifetime. However, all the things that are really important for us to know are easy to understand. The indwelling Holy Spirit opens our understanding when we ask for it.
Incoming Email You were very patient with the Catholic gentlemen who insisted on his correctness without offering proof. I think that is our duty to always offer supporting authority so that others can review for themselves. Our faith is in God's word, not each other.
The reluctance of people to investigate their basis of their faith in the Word of God never ceases to amaze me. Their minds are so locked in the grip of the conventional wisdom of what they think the Bible says or what their church believes that they never bother to study it for themselves.
How can anyone who wants to know the truth argue with the Berean approach?
As you stated: "Acts 17:11 says, "These (Bereans) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and SEARCHED THE SCRIPTURES DAILY, WHETHER THOSE THINGS WERE SO." This is what we should do. Compare these things with Scripture. If Scripture says it, it is "so." If Scripture does not say it, it is NOT so."
Why would anyone want to trust anything a precious as eternity to any man or organization when God left us His Word? All we have to do is read it and ask Him to explain it to us.
The modification of the 10 commandments is outright deception on the order of the article attached. By placing a different version of the commandments on the fly leaf to obscure one of the direct commandments of God seems to be very similar to this story. People remember what the see most often in its simplest form.
Please follow the directions precisely:
If you are alert you will see applications of this everywhere. By verifying everything in the word of God you will not be fooled.
One of the problems is how to know if or where a topic is covered in the word of God. The concordance is not adequate for this purpose. Fortunately, the Bible search engines on the web do a superb job. You can search for anything.
Recently, the question of the visual appearance of angels came up. How are they portrayed? Generally as attractive, blond women with wings. I searched the Bible for every occurence. Guess what? Only two possible mentions of angels that may be women All the rest are men in shining garments. No wings. (Cherubim and seraphim have wings but they are not angels.) So if you see a blond woman with wings who wants to give you a message, you had better write it down and head for your Bible to find out who sent her to you.
My reply I'm glad I sounded patient.
Where are two mentions of angels that may be women? R.B. Thieme said that they were all male.
Also, I have used a couple of concordances, Strong's and Young's, for many years, to look up verses. Had Cruden's, but gave it away. Tell me how to search on the Web. For word meanings, I also have Thayer's and Gesenius' Lexicons. Is there a way to look up word meanings on the Web"
(For searches, he says try Goshen or Gospel.com. I have a link to Goshen on my link page.)
Incoming Email Thanks for your reply - there is a lot for me to check and digest there. Two more questions if you have the time/patience. Do you know what Song of Solomon 8:8 means? Who is the little sister with no Breasts? Also in another of your letters I read that Jesus will be our God and King and that David would be Lord and over us. I was surprised - I would have thought Moses. Why him? Is it because Jesus was the Alpha and Omega of his Line. He was pretty carnal and sinful. I am grateful for your patience, and I am sharing all I recieve with all my friends. love
My reply Song 8:8-10 says, "We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts: what shall we do for our sister in the day when she shall be spoken for? If she be a wall, we will build upon her a palace of silver: and if she be a door, we will inclose her with boards of cedar. I am a wall, and my breasts like towers."
The Jerusalem Bible has, "I am a wall, and my breasts REPRESENT its towers." We are a spiritual building, the temple of the Holy Spirit. Towers not only remind us of church buildings, but seem to represent the two Raptures, when we rise up.
Isa. 60:18 probably ties in to help us understand the symbolism. It says, thou shalt call thy walls Salvation (Yeshuwah), and thy gates Praise.
I can't tell you for sure what "little sister" stands for, but it seems significant that the Church is going to do something for "little sister." I have thought for some time that, at the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Lord may ask us if we think he should save Israel, and we will say, "Yes." Little sister may be the Jewish remnant, and she will not be caught up. Therefore, she has no breasts. She will live on Earth during the Millennium, but she will have salvation and praise, Yeshua too.
> I read that Jesus will be our God and King and that David would be Lord
> and over us. I was surprised - I would have thought Moses. Why him?
David will be a prince under the Lord. Jer. 30:9 says, "they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." Ezek. 34:24 says, I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it."
The Lord is the Creator, the Almighty. He decided. He has that right. Maybe Moses and Elijah are the ones at the right and left of the Lord in Heaven, and David the ruler on Earth.
Saul, David, and Solomon each ruled 40 years. The number 40 means testing. It looks like David is the only one of the three that earned the right to rule again. Why? not because he was sinless. No man is. However, Daved confessed his sins. He stayed out of fellowship a year, but said it was like God's hand was pressing down on him, so he finally confessed and got right with God. He was miserable until he did that. Psa. 1:2 explains further why he was chosen: "But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."
Don't you think David is set up as an example for us? If he could sin, yet confess and be forgiven, then rule, we can sin, confess, be forgiven, and rule as kings and priests with Christ 1000 years (Rev. 5:10;20:6).
I think we will go back to Heaven with the Lord after the Millennial government is set up. It is our home. We will be able to travel back and forth to do the Lord's work on Earth. We will reign over the Earth.
Incoming Email Heaven = Venus?
I just ordered your three books from Amazon, but I didn't want to wait for the answer. :)
My reply Venus is not Heaven. Paul said it was the third heaven. Count them--Mars, Jupiter, Saturn.
Sapphire is a symbol (Ex. 24:10; Ezek. 1:26). It is from two Sanskrit words, Sani and priya, that mean Saturn and dear. Sinai may also be derived from Sani. It did represent Heaven after the Israelites left Egypt.
Saturn has golden clouds and is marked with seven rings. Zech. 3:10 in the LXX says, "as for the stone which I have set before the face of Jesus, on the one stone are seven eyes (orbs, circles, i.e., rings)," and Saturn has seven rings.
In Rev. 4:3, "there was a rainbow round about the throne." In Ezek. 1:27,28, "it had brightness round about. As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain."
Incoming Email Hello again. As I have been reading the material on your web pages, I thought of the Parable of the Tares. Could you help me see how Jesus' explanation of the parable fits your scheme of end-time things? It seems to me that the wicked are gathered up first and burned and then the righteous who are left "shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father".
Thank you for your help.
Matt 13:36-43: Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. (KJV)
My reply Mt. 13:30 says, Let both grow together until the harvest (the end of this age): and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
At "the end of this world" (age), the nations are to be bound in bundles to be burned. It doesn't mean that they are burned before the wheat is gathered, but they are bound in bundles before the wheat is gathered. I think this will turn out to be the ten regions the world is divided into under the ten kings that give their kingdom over to the Beast, the head of the World Government.
The actual order of the two reapings is found in Rev. 14:14f. The Lord himself, one "like unto the Son of man" will catch up the Tribulation saints first. This is the Pre-Wrath Rapture that takes place (Rev. 7:14) between the breaking of the sixth (Rev. 6:12) and seventh seals (Rev. 8). Then, at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5), the unbelievers are cast into the winepress of the wrath of God.
These two reapings take place on the same day, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, the Feast of Trumpets, but the Pre-Wrath Rapture comes before the seven trumpet judgments are cast on Earth. I think this will be Tishri 1, 5768 (our Sept. 13, 2007).
When the sixth seal is broken, it looks like a binary asteroid blows apart at the Roche Limit, showering the Earth with small rocks. The sun and moon are partially obscured by smoke. A portion of the atmosphere is rolled away like a scroll and the Sign of the Son of Man (Mt. 24:30) is seen. Men hide themselves and say "to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME" (Rev. 12:16).
Then, we see the Tribulation saints in Heaven in Rev. 7:14, before the seven trumpet judgments are cast on Earth in Rev. 8. In Rev. 8:8, we see one mountain-sized piece of the asteroid impact the Mediterranean Sea (Ezek. 38:19,20; Zeph. 2:4,5). In 8:10, we see the larger "aster" (asteroid) strike Earth. It is the "stone like a great millstone" that destroy Babylon (Rev. 18:21).
This first day of the Millennium is often called "that day" in the OT prophecies. It is a day like no other--ever. In Heaven, it is Coronation Day. Christ is given dominion over Earth and crowned, probably by his mother (Song of Solomon 3:11). Next comes the Marriage of the Lamb, followed by the Judgment Seat of Christ. Believers are given their rewards for their faith and works at the same time that unbelievers on Earth are given their just rewards for their unbelief.
Rev. 11:17,18 says, "thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry (the united nations' army is attacking Israel, Ezek. 38:18,19, bringing God's fury up in his face), and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servents the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."
"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom (the earthly one) all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father (i.e., in Heaven). Who hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Mt. 13:41-43).
This Day of God's Wrath is the day of trumpets and thick darkness (Joel 2:1-3). Jesus does not return on a dark day (Zech 14:5-7). He waits seven Jewish months until Israel buries the dead bodies to cleanse the land for his glorious return. The year 5768 is a Jewish leap year. Therefore, there are seven months between Tishri 1 and the Second Advent on Nisan 1 (Ezek. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3). Jesus will officially take office on Earth on the same day all the other Israelite kings officially took office, on the first day of the Jewish Regnal year and Sacred year. It is the Regnal year because he is King of kings, the Sacred year because he is Lord of lords.
Pro and Con 253 Or Return
Contact me for more information at: firstname.lastname@example.org
8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110, FAX (909) 697-8960
© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee