Pro and Con 254

Uploaded 1-22-99, PM

Incoming Email

Re: Welcoming the 12-stepping RC.
Hi Marilyn, Thanks for your response to my questions about Egypt. Glad Ed is continuing to improve. Just read 1st part of P/C 252 and needed to welcome the person who is a friend of Bill Ws. (12 stepper) and a born again Christian and a Catholic. My wife and I have accumulated (by the grace of God) 65 years together in a 12 step program. We also have 25 years each as joyful members of the body/bride of Christ. Welcome, again. You are in our prayers. The RC and the 12 step programs have many born-again Christians in their menberships. We still attend AA regularly, (where else is the field so ripe for harvest?) We left the RC 20 years ago because our souls (spirits) were receiving little nourishment, however, as Sweet Marilyn says it doesn't matter so much where you worship as much as who you worship. I heard one preacher say that it is relatively easy for God to save people, whereas it is much harder to make Christians out of them. I believe there are thousands of 12 steppers who act more like Christians than many Christians I know. They are 0ne step from salvation, I call it, 'the 14th step'. ( the number 14 biblically is the number of Deliverance or Salvation {Ed F. Vallowe}) There also are millions of RCs who need a 14th step too (a much bigger field to harvest) The harvesters were few in the 1st century but as we near the end of the age there are many, in my opinion. Time is of the essence. We went to a church that welcomed the unsaved with love, Calvary Chapel/ Chuck Smith. Many Bible believing churches have recovery programs distinct from AA. We found God in AA, but were forced to challenge the 3rd step on the basis of needing to know who we were turning our wills and our lives over to the care of. We are blessed to have hundreds of friends in both fellowships. We stand in the GAP as two of God's Anonymous People. Unfortunately, the BIG MEETING IN THE SKY has as much validity for AAs, in my opinion, as does Purgatory for the RCs. God showed me after salvation, that there is no way to work out our salvation in Purgatory (even if everybody in the world could pray for our release) than for a new-ager - re-incarnationist to work off their sin (karma) by coming back repeatedly into new bodies. We can't escape the sentence of death as the result of the wages of sin. Thanks to God He did it for us, on the cross (one time for all) hence there is no need for a daily sacrifice of the mass. He did it once for all. If He didn't do it that way, then we are all still lost and separated from God forever. All the more reason to live happy, joyous and free knowing now who our savior is and earnestly watching therefore, and praying that we might escape all these things which are to come and to stand before the son of man. Thank you again, Marilyn for your love and wisdom. Hole-in-the-sky

My reply

Thanks for welcoming our new friend.

> We went to a church that welcomed the unsaved with love,
> Calvary Chapel/ Chuck Smith. (Santa Ana, CA)

I have been there quite a few times. I started taking a group of college-age kids down there before they had services in the tent, so you know that was awhile back. In those days, we sat on the carpet in the aisles or out on the grass listening to the loudspeakers. Love is definitely felt in that church on Sunday. When we went to services in the tent, everyone joined hands and swayed as they sang. The Body of Christ was as one. That is very different from RC services.

Many early churches met in homes. Jesus said that where two or three are gathered together in his name, he is there. That we worship him is what matters.

Since his Holy Spirit indwells us individually and joins us together collectively, and one of the attributes of God is love, believers have very real fellowship one with another. This is something the world cannot understand. Agape

Incoming Email

Marilyn, I just heard of you via the bulletin board on Jack Van Impe's website.
I am sending for your books, Heaven Found and Exit:2000. I too was baptized in the Methodist church and then, after I was born again, in a Baptist church. I am looking forward to meeting you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we are called to be with Him. For the past five years, the Holy Spirit has been gently convincing me of the soon coming Rapture of the Bride of Christ. Your presentation of two raptures is something I had never heard about, and I had such great peace and convincing as I read your thoughts. I have wondered why some Christians seem so ambivalent (right word?) about the return of the Lord Jesus....why their hearts were not yearning everyday to be with Him, why they were so preoccupied with their lives on this earth. I know there is verse about those who are without chastening are bastards...but, chastening is painful. It seems that they will have to endure grevious chastening to clean their soiled robes. I praise God that He will lose none of His Own! Thank you again for your insights. God bless and keep you, and I look forward to that meeting!

My reply

Thanks. I'll be looking forward to meeting you in glory. I'm hoping for next Pentecost.

Incoming Email

I wish you love and peace and all of God's blessings. I have only recently found your website and I am excited about something simultaneously wonderful and frightening about to happen to God's people on planet Earth.

My first reaction is: "Why aren't these wonderful and frightening events which are soon to happen making headlines on every daily newspaper and on televison news reports throughout the World?" Is this not too important for all of God's people to know about before it is too late?

My second reaction is a question: How will the World's people react when millions of God's people are instantly raised up, meet The Christ in the air, and are instantly taken to Heaven? Will not this formidable event be enough to convert the lukewarm and faint hearted believers to take sides FOR and AGAINST the Lamb of God? Obviously, this would not be a natural event, or even a man-made event but ABSOLUTE DIVINE INTERVENTION into the affairs of mankind.

And a third question: If the Bride of Christ (the Church) is Raptured, how will those who undergo the Tribulation be protected from the ravages of the 7 period and not succumb to the AntiChrist and his agents? If the Church is Raptured, will these souls still have the Church to assist them and help them to survive the Tribulation?

And a final question: Assuming God's magnificent angel, Lucifer, is still imbibed with free will, is it possible that Lucifer could or would kneel before his Father and Creator, ask forgiveness for his disobedience, and serve his Master in the manner he was created along with his brother Archangel Michael and the other Archangels? Does the Bible exclude such a possibility? Are God's people and believers encouraged to PRAY for Lucifer's conversion and submission to the Father's will?

Marilyn, thank you for your tireless Christian labor of love. I may not worthy enough to be selected for the first Rapture, but perhaps we will meet when I am chosen to meet Christ during the Second Rapture.

Marilyn, I am a 61 year old married ---- with one (married) son and one wonderful wife named ---- who, I believe, is my angel sent by God to help me in this life and prepare me for the next. MARANATHA !!!!

My reply

> "Why aren't these wonderful and frightening events
> which are soon to happen making headlines

The "world" is interested in worldly things.

> How will the World's people react when
> millions of God's people are instantly raised up

Psalm 40:1-3 says, "I WAITED patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit (as Jeremiah was taken up out of a pit), out of the miry clay (our bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established by goings. And the hath put a new song (sung after the Rapture in Revelation 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."

> Will not this formidable event be enough to convert the lukewarm and
> faint hearted believers to take sides FOR and AGAINST the Lamb of God?

It should cause them to get with it, repent and make sure they have their white robes. However, no true believer will be lost (Jn. 18:9). There "shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" when they get left behind though (Mt. 24:51). They will be saved so as by fire (i.e., no other rewards but salvation).

> how will those who undergo the Tribulation be protected from the ravages of
> the 7 period and not succumb to the AntiChrist and his agents? If the Church
> is Raptured, will these souls still have the Church to assist them and help
> them to survive the Tribulation?

Those will be terrible years, the worst seven years since Adam was put on Earth.. There will be many who have to die for their faith because they cannot take the Mark of the Beast (Rev. 6:9; 20:4). Some will be beheaded. The Holy Spirit will still indwell believers to help them. They will not be alone. Jesus said that he would be with believers even to the end of the age.

It seems that the Bride of Christ will be in Heaven, but the rest of the Body of Christ will be on Earth until the Pre-Trib Rapture. With such terrible things facing us, it behooves us to get ready and stay ready. We don't want to be lukewarm Laodiceans who are spewed out of Christ's mouth. We just can't get left behind. What kind of sin would be worth that? Nothing! Not a thing.

Queen Esther was purified 12 months before she was taken to the king. We should purify ourselves also. We should clean up our lives, confess our sins, and watch. We should be ready to give the reason for the hope that is in us. If there is anyone we can influence to accept Christ, or to draw close to him, we should have compassion for them and try. There is nothing nicer you could do for someone than to introduce them to the Lord. We just might reap the fruit of seed someone else planted long ago. It would be nice to go to the Lord bringing with us sheaves of wheat.

> is it possible that Lucifer could or would kneel before his Father and
> Creator, ask forgiveness for his disobedience, and serve his Master
> in the manner he was created

No. I don't think so. His test is over. His judgment has taken place. He has been sentenced. He must have appealed his sentence. It seems that the Lord is proving that his sentence is just by creating a lesser creature. If man, who can't see God, can still pass his test and obey God, then the Lord is just in consigning Satan to prison.

> Are God's people and believers encouraged to PRAY for
> Lucifer's conversion and submission to the Father's will?

No.

> I may not worthy enough to be selected for the first Rapture, but perhaps
> we will meet when I am chosen to meet Christ during the Second Rapture.

What does it take to confess our sins? Is that so hard that we would risk going through the Tribulation for it? We would have to do it before the Second Rapture anyway. Those "have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14). Everything should be brought under the blood of Christ--now.

I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins (i.e., known ones since we accepted Christ), he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness (including unknown sins)." When we accept Christ, all our "old sins" (II Peter 1:9) are wiped off the books. All we have to confess is things we do after that. It is like when Jesus washed Peter's feet. Peter did not need anything else but to have Jesus wash his feet and he was clean every whit. We need to let Jesus wash our feet. That is not that hard to do right now and get it out of the way.

Peter gave us a list of things we should add to our faith to make our "calling and election sure." Here is his list, "that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature": virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly KINDNESS, charity (agape love). "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind (like the Laodiceans), and cannot see afar off (Heaven at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture), and hath forgotten that he was purged from his OLD SINS. Wherefore the rather, brethren (believers), give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" (II Peter 1:4-11).

Re: Heaven. "there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Rev. 21:27). Now is the time to get right with God. Don't wait. Please! I want you to have reason to thank me when you get to be a member of the Bride of Christ and be caught up at the first trump. To be chosen as part of the Bride is the best prize. Run the race to win. You can do it.

See you in glory, you and your wife. You can rise up together to meet the Lord in the air and escape all these terrible things that are coming to test the whole world severely. Agape

PS: Psa. 37:39,40 says, "the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble. And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him."

Incoming Email

Re: Catholic person on Pro & Con 252
Just wanted to encourage the Catholic person, who is still attending the Catholic Church and said don't ask why he/she still does. All I can say I have gone through a similar situation and after being born again, filled with the Holy Spirit, with the gift of tongues, I realized that God had a purpose for me to stay and worship in the Catholic Church, to teach and tell the many who are lost and not sure were they stand with God. I taught Sunday School back in 1991 during the time of the Gulf War, it was a Grade 4 class, it was such a great privilege and honor to serve God this way, by teach them about our Lord Jesus Christ, as our Lord and Saviour. The whole class about 30 students, by the end of the school year, prayed the sinners prayer, and asked Jesus to come into their lives. I have stayed here in the Catholic Church because I believe, this is where I can witness to others and help them to come and know the Lord for themselves as their personal Saviour. I have lead my dad and mom, whom are both with the Lord, yes they were born again, and now are in heaven. Both my children are born again also. So many have been touched and so many more need to know, how will they know, if we as Born Again Christians, don't stay and tell them, that Jesus is our Salvation. I SAY STAY WHERE YOU ARE AND SPREAD THE WORD, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE LORD WANTS US TO DO. I THANK GOD FOR SPIRIT FILLED CHRISTIANS LIKE MARILYN AGEE, SHE DOES NOT GROUP PEOPLE ALL INTO THE SAME BASKET. YES, THERE ARE, SOME STUBBORN, SELF RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE LIKE ROGER T., WHO HAVE NOT TAKEN THE TIME TO TAKE EVERYTHING TO THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, NO MATTER WHAT, THEY WON'T GIVE AN INCH EVEN WHEN THEY ARE WRONG. YET THERE ARE BORN AGAIN CATHOLICS, WHO LOVE THE LORD WITH ALL THEIR HEARTS, AND READ THE SCRIPTURES AND LOVE ALL THEIR CHRISTIAN BRETHREN, BAPTIST, PENTECOSTALS, ETC. I have a dear Baptist lady who has been a dear friend for over 20 years, and other friends from different denominations. We are all Brothers and Sisters in Christ. I have been to prayer meetings with Baptists, Pentecostals, etc. etc. There are people in all denominations who belong to Christ and others who are self righteous and belong to their own man made beliefs. I believe that if the Lord lays it on our hearts to stay in our Church, it is so that we may Witness to others like ourselves. We plant the seed, in good soil and watered it will grow. In the Love of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, Maranatha!

My reply

Thanks for taking time to give us your experience. You are like a breath of fresh air. You will go into Heaven bringing your sheaves with you.

> I believe that if the Lord lays it on our hearts to stay in our Church, it
> is so that we may Witness to others like ourselves.

That "if" is important. One should pray about it and let the Lord show the way. Perhaps some should stay in RC and others should not. Only the Lord knows what is best in each individual case. Certainly, it is a mission field, and how shall they hear unless they are told?

When the Rapture is "at hand" (Rev. 1:3), the Lord says, "unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine (Jezebel's, 'commit fornication [joining], and to eat things sacrificed unto idols'), and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak ('the deep secrets of Satan, as they are called,' Jerusalem Bible); I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already hold fast till I come."

After the Rapture is a different story. Staying could be ok now, but not in the Tribulation, and that is just as true of ALL the churches that join with her. During the first half of the Tribulation, all religions and all nations seem to come under the rulership of the Beast, who probably will be the Tribulation Pope (Rev. 13:4,7). Then in the Great Tribulation, all religions and all nations come under the rulership of the Satan-possessed False Prophet, who sets up an image and demands that it be worshiped on pain of death (Rev. 13:14,15).

Now it should become clear why the second commandment said, "You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything in heaven above or on earth beneath or in the waters under the earth. 'You shall not bow down to them or serve them" (Jerusalem Bible).

Rev. 18:2-5 (Jerusalem Bible) says of the final form of the world church, "Babylon has fallen, Babylon the Great has fallen, and has become the haunt of devils and a lodging for every foul spirit and dirty, loathsome bird. ALL THE NATIONS have drunk deep of the wine of her prostitution (joining with another); EVERY KING ON THE EARTH has prostituted himself (joined) with her...Come out, my people, away from her, so that you do not share in her crimes and have the same plagues to bear. Her sins have reached up to the sky."

> I THANK GOD FOR SPIRIT FILLED CHRISTIANS LIKE MARILYN AGEE, SHE DOES
> NOT GROUP PEOPLE ALL INTO THE SAME BASKET.

Individuals seldom fit exactly into categories. Each one of us is different from anyone else.

Your mention of basket reminds me of the ephah of Zech 5:5-11. That is one basket no one should be in during the Tribulation.

Since I have my Jerusalem Bible out, I will quote this passage from it. What is translated an "ephah," the largest wheat measure (i.e., the world church), in the KJV is translated a "bushel measure" or a "barrel" in the JB. It says, "The angel who was talking to me appeared and said to me, 'Raise your eyes, and see what this is, going along.' I said, 'What is it?' He said, 'It is a bushel measure going along.' He went on, 'This is their guilt throughout the country' (KJV, 'This is their resemblance through all the earth'). At this, a disc of lead was raised, and I saw a woman (i.e., a religious group) sitting inside the barrel. He said, 'This is Wickedness.' And he rammed her back into the barrel and jammed its mouth shut with the mass of lead. I raised my eyes, and there were two women (i.e., two religious groups) appearing. The wind caught their wings--they had wings like a stork's; they raised the barrel midway between earth and heaven. I then said to the angel who was talking to me, 'Where are they taking the barrel?' He replied, 'To build a temple for it in the land of Shinar (where the Tower of Babel was, Gen. 11:2) and make a pedestal on which to put it." The KJV has, "and set there upon her own base" (i.e., the Tower of Babel's base).

What was begun under the false prophet Nimrod at the Tower of Babel will be finished under the False Prophet at Babylon on the Euphrates River. The Mystery Religion of Babylon started with the Pontifiex Maximus Nimrod and will end with the Pontifex Maximus False Prophet.

Ever since the Pontifex Maximus Constantine, who declared Christianity the state religion and thus brought pagans into the church, the Mystery Religion of Babylon has been mixed with Christianity. After the Pre-Trib Rapture, any Christians left behind must leave it. The Holy Spirit has been restraining the wicked one, but after the Rapture, He will remove the restraint and evil will finally come to a head. Satan will be allowed his 3 1/2 year ministry "like a lamb" (i.e., like Christ). But this one called "another" will speak "as a dragon" (Satan) (Rev. 13:11). He will "make war with the remnant" of Israel "which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Rev. 12:17).

A horn represents a coming to power. The Lord has two comings in the body of a man (Jesus), and Satan has two comings ("two horns like a lamb," Rev. 13:11) in the body of a man. He was in Judas Iscariot, and he will be in the False Prophet. Both are sons of perdition. Both betray Christ. In both cases, it would have been better if they had never been born.

Incoming Email

cinda wrote: Dear Mrs. Agee, I know you have a lot of work to do. I will make this letter short. Please scan the following website.... My request is that you add it to your links page. I've spent many years researching it. http://members.tripod.com/ephraem/index.html Thanx for your consideration, Ephraem

My reply

I will add your link because I think Christians should look at everyone's opinion and compare it with Scripture. However, I disagree with you. You say Arafat is the Beast.

> Yassar Arafat. "And power was given him over all kindreds, tongues and nations".

The Beast will be over the world government (all nations), plus "all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb" (Rev. 13:8). This is not Arafat. I think it is the Tribulation Pope. I think both beasts will be wolves in sheep's clothing. The second beast "exerciseth all the power of the first beast" (Rev. 13:12) starting in the middle of the Tribulation.

> There are 1290 days left after the sacrifice and oblation
> cease to the end of the 2300th day or the end of the war.

Adding 1260 days (Rev. 11:3) and 1290 days (Dan. 12:11) equals 2550 days, not 2300. I think the Seventieth Week of Daniel/Tribulation will begin on the Feast of Weeks, Sivan 6, 5761 (May 28, 2001). The 2300 days, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning, ends on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). There are 1260 days in the first half of the Tribulation (Rev. 11:3) and 1040 in the rest of the shortened Tribulation (1260 + 1040 = 2300).

> A war is soon to start. When Syria crosses the border of Israel joined by
> the rest of the Arab confederacy and Jerusalem is lost [This is also
> Mystery Babylon] the Rapture will happen.

Jerusalem belongs to Israel during the Tribulation. When the united nations' army under Gog attacks on the 2300th day, God will save Israel, including Jerusalem. Zech. 14:2,3 says, "I will gather ALL NATIONS against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken...Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations."

I do not see any prophecy that has to be fulfilled before the Rapture. I also believe that Babylon is literal Babylon on the Euphrates River in Iraq. It will be the headquarters for the Mystery Religion of Babylon. What was started at the Tower of Babel in Babylon will be finished in Babylon.

> [D] September 15,1997 = Place Abomination of Desolation
>
> The following event fits all the qualifications of the Abomination
> of Desolation. Jewish extremists take over three buildings in the
> middle of the Arab neighborhood of Ras al-Amud. Even though
> Jews had owned these buildings for quite some time, they were not
> allowed to live there. On this day they moved in and once again
> the troops were called in to prevent rioting.

The temple has to be there before the abomination of desolation can be placed there. The wicked one will sit in the temple in Jerusalem "shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4). I think he will also place an idol there (Rev. 13:14).

> Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be
> cleansed. The answer is a short math problem. 2300 days plus the
> amount of time it takes to cleanse the sanctuary. 2300 plus 7 months as
> per Ezekiel 39 equals 7 years. 2300 plus 220 equals 2520. 2520 is a 7
> year period based on 30 day months.

You say 2300 days + 7 months = 7 years. Thus your 7 months = 220 days. You also say that months are 30 days each. Seven times 30 = 210 days, not 220 days.

I think that there are 2300 literal days from the Feast of Weeks in 2001 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007. I have numbered them on my Jewish calendar. Then there are 7 literal months after that until Christ returns on Nisan 1 (Ezek. 29:17,21), the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year and Sacred Year, Regnal because he is King of kings, Sacred because he is Lord of lords. Those months are: (1) Tishri, (2) Cheshvan, (3) Kislev, (4) Teveth, (5) Shevat, (6) Adar I and (7) Adar II. There are seven months from Tishri 1 to Nisan 1 because 5768 is a leap year, when they add the 13th month, Adar II.

I think that the first half of the Tribulation is 1260 days (Rev. 11:3). From that day, there are 1040 days. That takes us to the 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:14).

From that 1260th day in the middle of the Tribulation, Daniel 12:7-13 and Rev. 12:6,14 indicate another 1260 days. Dan. 12:11-13 mentions 1290 days and 1335 days. The first 1260 days + the second 1260 days = 2520 days, the end of the full seven years. I think the Judgment of the Nations takes place then and dominion is taken from Satan. Also, the goats are done away with. Therefore, another 30 days are added for mourning the dead. The 1260 days + 30 days = 1290 days. Then on the 1335th day, Daniel actually stands in his own assigned lot (parcel of land) in Israel.

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Updated 1-23-99