Pro and Con 256

Uploaded 1-26-99, PM

Incoming Email

First, I want to thank you for taking the time to reply with more than just a line or two. I appreciate your thoroughness.

Your explanation of the Parable of the Tares in the context of that Day is excellent. I will continue to look over your insights and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal "all truth." I'm looking forward to receiving your books which I ordered from Amazon on Wednesday, but even with 2 day air delivery, Amazon takes 3 days to get the order together to ship. I hope you have composed a detailed time line which would greatly help.

I must say that until I came across your web page, I had virtually abandoned a pre-Trib rapture and figured all Christians were to be tested during the Tribulation unless they had previously persevered in the Crown of Life test (James 1:12) of their love for God (as the Church of Philadelphia in Rev 3). In fact, we named the church my wife and I pastor, Crown of Life Fellowship. I believe I am getting a renewed view of the "blessed hope". It is refreshing.

Many prophetic voices across America are telling of a nuclear attack and invasion by Russia, China, Korea, Cuba, Mexico and others. We have encouraged others to store sufficient provisions to last one year and ten days (time Noah was in Ark). May I have your thoughts regarding this? Could this invasion be considered Pre-Trib as were WW1 and WW2? Or is this the rider on the red horse and therefore within the Tribulation?

I'm sure I'll have more questions in the days to come. Thanks. Agape in Christ Jesus
Pastor -----

My reply

> I hope you have composed a detailed time line

Yes, you will find charts in "Exit: 2007: The Secret of Secrets Revealed," which is the same book as Avon Book's edition, "The End of the Age."

> one year and ten days (time Noah was in Ark).

Just a sidelight. That is by the Jewish calendar. Actually, in solar years, it was just about one year.

> store sufficient provisions

I couldn't store much anyway because of lack of money. I am just hoping I won't be here for the Y2K crisis, and I know I won't be here for the battle of Ezek. 38.

> Could this invasion be considered Pre-Trib as were WW1 and WW2? Or is
> this the rider on the red horse and therefore within the Tribulation?

I don't pay any attention to these people. I stick to Scripture, which is pure truth. Usually, these people talk as if the army led by Gog of Ezek. 38 could happen before the Tribulation. To me, that seems immpossible. It is not even the red horse riden by the Beast, which is probably the Tribulation Pope. It is on the Day of God's Wrath when the seven trumpet judgments are cast on Earth.

Ezek. 38:18-23 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in THAT DAY (the Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial Day of the Lord) there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all them men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (sight, as translated in Ezek. 36:31, referring to the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30), and the mountains (plural, asteroids, Rev. 8:8,10) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground....I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes (the Sign of the Son of Man) of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD."

The "great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea" (Rev. 8:8). This is the Mediterranean Sea (Zeph. 2:4,5). This asteroid impact is what causes the fish of the sea to shake along with all the men that are upon the face of the Earth.

Hang on to your blessed hope. I think we will get out of here next Pentecost. See Pro and Con 255 for info on the Jubilee year. I believe the true Jubilee, figured from the Exodus, is coming up Nisan l, 5759 (Mar. 18, 1999). Agape

His reply

> MJA wrote--I am interested and have printed it out to keep. I am very skeptical about
>Pentecost always being on Monday (and skeptical of anything coming out of the WWCG)...I
> have a reference that says that Josephus said that the wave sheaf offering was made on
> Nisan 16, the day after the Passover feast, and that the count of the omer began on that
> day (Antiquities, bk.3, chapter 10, part 5), and he was a Pharisee. I have not looked it
> up to verify it. Do you have the works of Josephus to look it up so we can be certain?...

I have typed out Book 3, Chapter 10, Part 5 below for you. I am not well versed in the feasts and calendars. For now I rely on others who have applied themselves to such study. It is very interesting and I would like to spend more time on it. I have also included the first portion of Part 6 which may prove helpful...

From Antiquities of the Jews, Book III, Chapter 10:5

5. In the month of Xanthicus, which is by us called Nisan, and is the beginning of our year, on the fourteenth day of the lunar month, when the sun is in Aries, (for in this month it was that we were delivered from bondage under the Egyptians,) the law ordained that we should every year slay that sacrifice which I before told you we slew when we came out of Egypt, and which was called the Passover; and so do we celebrate this passover in companies, leaving nothing of what we sacrifice till the day following. The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread; on every one of which days two bulls are killed, and one ram, and seven lambs. Now these lambs are entirely burnt, beside the kid of the goats which is added to all the rest, for sins; for it is intended as a feast for the priest on every one of those days. But on the second day of unleavened bread, which is the sixteenth day of the month, they first partake of the fruits of the earth, for before that day they do not touch them. And while they suppose it proper to honour God, from whom they obtain this plentiful provision, in the first place, they offer the first-fruits of their barley, and that in the manner following: They take a handful of the ears, and dry them, then beat them small and purge the barley from the bran; they then bring one tenth deal to the altar, to God: and, casting one handful of it upon the fire, they leave the rest for the use of the priest; and after this it is that they may publicly or privately reap their harvest. They also at this participation of the first-fruits of the earth, sacrifice a lamb, as a burnt-offering to God.
6. When a week of weeks has passed over after this sacrifice (which weeks contain forty and nine days,) on the fiftieth day, which is Pentecost, but is called by the Hebrews Asartha, which signifies Pentecost, they bring to God a loaf, made of wheat flour, of two tenth deals, with leaven.
Pastor -----

My reply

Thank you so much. You made my day. I am so glad to have this quote from Josephus. It shows that I have been right about when these feasts should be. May the Lord bless you for taking the time to look it up for me. All that you included is helpful.

Here are the most important points:
"on the fourteenth day...the Passover...
The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month...on the second day of unleavened bread, which is the sixteenth day of the month...they offer the first-fruits of their barley...They also at this participation of the first-fruits of the earth, sacrifice a lamb..."

This fits the way I think the feasts were in 30 AD:
Nisan 13 - Preparation Day (Thur.), Crucifixion
Nisan 14 - Passover (Fri.)
Nisan 15 - Feast of Unleavened Bread (Sat.)
Nisah 16 - Feast of Firstfruits (Sun.), Resurrection, third day since (i.e., Fri., Sat., Sun.)

The "Tractate Sanhedrin" in the Babylonian Talmud says, "On the Eve of Passover Yeshu was hanged" (Sanhedrin 43a GBT VII. pg.181; SBT pg. 281). This agrees with John 19:14, "it was the preparation of the passover."

Not only does Lev. 23 say that the Passover is on the 14th, the second Passover is also on the 14th (Nu. 9:11). On the Jewish Talmudic calendar, have you noticed how Passover is slid over to the 15th and nothing at all is listed for the 14th and 16th, the very days that were types of Christ's being our Passover and the Firstfruit.

Josephus' "on the second day of unleavened bread" leaves no doubt whatsoever that the the Feast of Firstfruits was on Nisan 16. It followed the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

> "When a week of weeks has passed over after this sacrifice (which weeks contain forty and
> nine days,) on the fiftieth day, which is Pentecost"

One important thing here is that Josephus said "a week of weeks" instead of a week of Sabbaths. He seems to just mean 49 days (7 x 7). Also important is the word "after." This sounds like the omer is not counted by inclusive reckoning. Then, in 30 AD, Pentecost could have been on Monday, as Herman Hoeh said. It would have been on Sivan 7, May 29. This might explain why Acts 2:1 says, "when the day of Pentecost was fully come."

However, it would not always be on Monday. This is where I differ from Hoeh. This year, Sivan 7 is on Saturday, the Sabbath, May 22, 1999. That would be a good day to be caught up to Shabbtai (Saturn). Jesus is Lord of the Shabbat (Sabbath).

In looking over Lev. 23 in Green's Interlinear and the LXX, I found some help. Under the Hebrew words in Lev. 23:3, Green has "My set feasts." Verse 4 has, "in their fixed times." Both verses 37 and 44 have "the set feasts." From this, I gather that Firstfruits and Pentecost are not moveable feasts. That would rule out the Feast of Firstfruits always being on Sunday, and Pentecost always being on Monday, as Hoeh thinks.

Therefore, it seems that the KJV's 23:11' "on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it" does refer to the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, as traditional Rabinic Judaism regards it, not Sunday. Verse 11 in the LXX says, "lift up the sheaf...On the morrow of the first day." That would be the day after the first day of the seven day Feast of Unleavened Bread. Thus, Firstfruits would be Nisan 16, the day after the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is Nisan 15.

Of Lev. 23:15,16 Mr. Hoeh said, "when the Jews translated the passage, they were forced to render it correctly: "And ye shall count unto you from the morrow" (Nisan 16) "after the day of rest" (first day of Unleavened Bread, Nisan 15), " from the day" (Nisan 16) "that ye brought the sheaf of the waving" (Firstfruits, Nisan 16); "seven weeks" (49 days) "shall there be complete" (i.e., without counting Nisan 16)." Verse 16: "even unto the morrow after the seventh week shall ye number fifty days." Everything fits.

If the 50-day countdown of the omer starts with day one on Nisan 17, the day after Firstfruits, in the year of the Crucifixion, Pentecost would have been on Monday, Sivan 7, May 29, 30 AD. (Wonder of wonders, May 29 is our daughter's birthday. Our son David's is April 6, date of the Crucifixion and Second Advent.) However, in 2008, it would be on Tuesday, June 10. This year, Pentecost would be on Sivan 7, Saturday, May 22, 1999.

I have no other information on whether the leap years were changed in 161 AD., by Simon III, so can't go into that part of what Mr. Hoeh said, but will assume that he is right on that. He said that in Jesus' day, the leap years were 2, 5, 7, 10, 13, 16, 18 of the 19-year cycle, around 161 AD, the transition was 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 19. Now, they are 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, 19.

It does seem reasonable that they had to keep Pentecost a spring feast. I agree that Pentecost is a spring feast. His Note 1 is convincing. It says, "In a note to the Sanhedrin Tractate (section 12b) of The Babylonian Talmud, the translator, Rabbi Epstein states, 'Though according to Biblical tradition our months are to be lunar (cf. Ex. XII, 2), yet our Festivals are to be observed at certain agricultural seasons; Passover and Pentecost in the spring; Tabernacles, or Feast of Ingathering, in the autumn.'"

Therefore, I agree that Pentecost can be on Monday, but disagree with Mr. Hoeh, when he says that it always occurs on a Monday. When we look at the Talmudic Jewish calendar for 2008, we see that Nisan 14 is on Saturday, Nisan 15 on Sunday and Nisan 16 on Monday, the Feast of Firstfruits. If we start counting the omer on Sunday, we have to start on Nisan 22. That doesn't make sense if the feasts are fixed. I think the right day to begin the countdown is Nisan 17.

Thanks to the one that sent me Hoeh's paper, "A New Look at Pentecost in Light of the Calendar Adjustment in the Second Century," and thank you for the quote from Josephus. Between them, the LXX and Green's Interlinear, I was able to figure out what I really think Lev. 23 indicates regarding the timing of Pentecost. It is not clear in the KJV translation.

Now I am hoping for the Rapture on Saturday, Sivan 7, May 22, 1999. This means that John's becoming "in the Spirit on the Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10), probably does indicate the Saturday Sabbath. As some have said, Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. I think he was born on the Sabbath too.

Note: Being caught up to Shabbtai/Sabbatai, Saturn, on the Shabbat, Sabbath, would be very appropriate. Actually, I am not going to rule out Sivan 6, either, because the 2300 days of the shortened Tribulation seem to start on Sivan 6. The Talmudic Jewish Calendar lists both Sivan 6 and Sivan 7. I can live with that (May 21/22, 1999). However, in 30 AD, the day of Pentecost was fully come. That could give us reason to think Sivan 7 was the day. I have been so happy today. Learning new things gives me joy. Then, to top it all off, We saw the most awsome rainbow ever. Once, we went to Hawaii to the Spring Crest convention, rode around the big island and saw two, one a double, spectacular, but nothing like we saw today. They were far off. This was close by. It was a double one. The colors were reversed in the two color bands, and between the two color bows was an evenly colored wide solid dark band. Outside the two color bands, the sky was much lighter, above and below. The bow was all one phenomenon. The ends were exceptionally bright and very wide. The bottom of the inside bow came down on the street I was driving on. The bright colors sparkled and played all over the traffic ahead of me as we drove through light rain and mist. It was a wonderland. I was glad to get stopped by two red lights to drink it all in. It lasted a long time too. I'll never forget it. I parked and watched the short part that remained the longest while Ed got a prescription filled. It is hard to imagine that the colors could get that bright toward the two ends. Above, the color bows were lighter, but a complete arch. Agape

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David Hill wrote:
> Thus, the Jubilee would begin this
> next Nisan 1 (Mar. 18, 1999), the first day of the Sacred Year.

{This is where I disagree slightly. I believe that the Jubilee Year would start imediately in the Seventh month. And would end one year later, just in time for them to Plant for the following Harvest. I posted on this on the Doves under Jewish Stomachs, which shows that on the Jubilee Year, you would need a four year blessing, instead of the three year blessing that God promised. The only way around this is if the Jubilee starts immediately in the Seventh month, after the Harvest was in for the Year. This also explains your next statement below...}

> The 50th year was also the first year of the next cycle.

{This, primarily because it started in the Seventh month and not the First month.}

> Knowing the Jubilee would begin Nisan 1 should have told us a long time
> ago that Christ would return on Nisan 1.

{Again, I believe that the Jubilee would start imediately in the Seventh Month, however this means that Nisan 1 (and Pentcost for that matter) of this year would still be in the Jubilee Year.}

> Avi Ben Mordechai thinks the Rapture will take place on the Feast of
> Trumpets in the 6001st year.

{I think that the Feast of Trumpets will be fulfilled sometime during the Tribulation, and will have something to do with the 144,000}

> I think that Pentecost has a better chance, but he just may be right
> about the 6001st year.

{I would agree that Pentecost has a better chance for the date of the Rapture than the Feast of Trumpets}

{The rest of your message got lost again. I will try and pick it up and respond. Your Brother in Yeshua}

My reply

> I believe that the Jubilee Year would start imediately in the Seventh month. And would
> end one year later, just in time for them to Plant for the following Harvest.

The Israelites came out of Egypt in Nisan. At that time, God made a change in their calendar. He made Nisan the first month for them. The Jubilee is counted from when they came out of Egypt. It was to be kept after they were in the land. Since they were in the wilderness 40 years, that would be ten years after they entered the land. Their wars were over and the men could finally return to their families. It was a really jubilant year. To me, the change in the calendar makes the Jubilee start in Nisan. The Lord did not say to wait until Tishri to start counting. Therefore, I think they started counting in the first month of the Sacred Year.

When the Lord gave Moses the feasts in Lev. 23, he started them off (in verse 3) counting the sabbath day, in Nisan. In Lev. 23:5, the Lord said, "In the fourteenth day of the FIRST MONTH at even is the LORD'S passover." That first month is Nisan. In verse 27, "on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement." This is the seventh month of the Sacred year. If the Lord wanted the Jubilee to start with the seventh month, wouldn't he have made it start on Tishri 1 instead of Tishri 10?

Don't you think the Sabbatic year would start with the first month of the Sacred year, when they came out of Egypt? If the Lord gave them a new kind of year, why would he suddenly go back to the Civil year to have any count begin?

In Lev. 25:8-10, the Lord set up the Jubilee year, "seven sabbaths of years" plus one. It was counted the same way the sabbatic years were counted, from Nisan 1. It is a 49-year cycle so the sabbatic and 49th years stay aligned. Each 49th year is a sabbatic year.

"...forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement." The Lord is still talking in terms of the Sacred year, of which this is the seventh month. I think the 50th year is counted the same as all the other years, from Nisan 1 to the beginning of the next Nisan 1.

Lev. 25:20 says, What shall we eat the seventh year?" This would also be true of the 49th year. "Then I will command my blessing upon you in the sixth year (which ran from Nisan 1 to Nisan 1), and it shall bring forth fruit for three years (7,8,9). and ye shall sow the eighth year, and eat yet of old fruit until the ninth year; until her fruits come in ye shall eat of the old store." These are all years that start on Nisan 1. Could the 8th start at a different time from the 7th or 9th?

The very fact that the 50th year is the first year of the next cycle shows that they both start on Nisan 1. They are the exact same year, both the 50th and the first. It would be very awkward to have one year counted different than the other years. In Lev. 25:52, it says, "if there remain but few years unto the year of jubile, then he shall count with him, and according unto his years shall he give him again the price of his redemption." If the Jubile started at a different time from the other years, it would make counting years very hard.

> on the Jubilee Year, you would need a four year blessing, instead of the
> three year blessing that God promised.

I don't know of any scripture that applies to a three-year blessing for the Jubilee. Lev. 25:20-22 is talking about the Sabbatic year, not the Jubilee year. There, the Lord said for them to sow on the 6th and 8th years, but not on the 7th. If the 49th year is a Sabbatic year, they can't sow on that 7th year or the 8th, which would also be the 50th. They will have to operate on faith. If the Lord says to do something, do it his way and trust him to take care of you.

Lev. 25:11 says, "A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: YE SHALL NOT SOW."

> {I think that the Feast of Trumpets will be fulfilled sometime during
> the Tribulation, and will have something to do with the 144,000}

I think it will have a lot to do with the 144,000. I think they are part of the "great multitude, which no man could number, OF ALL NATIONS (including Israel), and kindreds, and people, and tongues" that are raptured on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the Millennium....

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FWD: "Song of Solomon: The WISE & FOOLISH Virgin," by David Campbell
...I'm not the first to see the Song of Solomon as a love book of Jesus, our Bridegroom, for His bride.

Chapter 2 even begins: I AM the rose of Sharon and the lily of the valleys.

Chapter 2 pictures a wise virgin bride looking and watching for her bridegroom and she is not disappointed:

The voice of my beloved! behold, he comes leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he stands behind our wall, he looks forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

Song of Solomon 2:8,9
> Do you see it? The bride is watching Him coming, she is not surprised! She SEES Him
> through the LATTICE!! Notice, you have to be watching and looking to see someone
> through a lattice - He is not appearing openly as at the Second Coming but
> partially hidden, visable ONLY to those watching and looking.

My beloved spake and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one and come away.

The fig tree putts forth her green figs and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one and come away. Song of Solomon 2:10,13

Notice also, this is the same language of Rev. 4:1:
After this I looked and behold a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither and I will shew you things which must be hereafter.

Now, the Foolish Virgin of Chapter 5:
I sleep but my heart wakes: it is the voice of my beloved that knocks, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled: for my head is filled with dew and my locks with the drops of the night. I have put off my coat; how shall I put it on? I have washed my feet; how shall I defile them?

Song of Solomon 5:2,3
Do you see it? Jesus comes and says to "open" as talking to a closed door - not "rise up" but "open". This is the Laodicean virgin of Rev. 3:14 and Matthew 25:11. Notice the worry about first getting on her coat and messing up her clean feet. And she only had the TWINKLING OF AN EYE to decide! This is the message for the LUKEWARM believer today: THERE WILL NOT BE TIME TO GET READY when Jesus comes for His bride. We must BE ready! Notice the double minded state of this virgin: She loves Jesus but she had the cares of this world; part of her heart is closed to Him. The Word of God is clear: THERE WILL NOT BE TIME TO PREPARE!!

My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door and my bowels were moved for him.

I rose up to open to my beloved; and my hands dropped with myrrh and my fingers with sweet smelling myrrh upon the handles of the lock.

I opened to my beloved; but my beloved had withdrawn himself and was gone: my soul FAILED when he spake: I sought him but I could not find him; I called him but he gave me no answer.

The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me.

Song of Solomon 5:4-7
IT WAS TOO LATE!! Like the lukewarm virgin of Rev. 3:16, Jesus spewed her out of His mouth into Tribulation.

Please......if you are not ready to meet Jesus at His "secret" pre-Tribulation coming, I encourage you TODAY to pray as David did: Search me, O God and know my heart: try me and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me and lead me in the way everlasting.

Psalm 139:23,24
Then, if God shows you sin in your heart, REPENT!

We should all pray everyday:

Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my strength and my redeemer. Psalm 19:14. Maranatha

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