Pro and Con 283
Uploaded 3-11-99, PM
Mat 24:33 reads: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
The generation that Jesus was speaking to was his generation or the generation that crucified him (Mat 23:33, 36). To throw that generation 2000 into the future is way out of context. No place in any of the scriptures where Jesus speaks to the generation is he speaking about anyone except that generation. The entire context of Mat 24 is the temple that Jesus just walked out of would be destroyed (Mat 24: 1-4). That happened in A.D. 70 to that generation. That coming was at the door.
Luke 12:37 "Blessed are those servants, who the lord when he cometh shall find watching: This is simply a parable that Jesus told that we should live a life of readiness or holiness. This really has nothing to do with the rapture, rather life in the kingdom (Luke 12:31) "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. for yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him" (Hebrew 10:35-38)
Obviously a "little while" is not 2000 years. A "little while" was A.D. 70. The book of Hebrews was written sometime from 60-65 A.D. The Hebrew nation was attacked in A.D. 66 by the Roman army. Now that is a little while. Hebrews was written to the Hebrew nation or Juda. It was a warning not to go back to the system for those who did would be judged and were. Over one million perished and 97,000 were taken into slavery.
How long will you go on believing the lie? When will you finally decide you are awaiting a fairy tale? Study in the A.D. 70 desolation. There is no superiority of the Jews according to the Bible. The great tribulation clearly took place in A.D. 70 to that generation just as Jesus said. No place in the New Testament by any apostle does it refer to another temple being built. Daniel 7:13-14 the Kingdom began at the Ascension and will never end. 1 Cor 15 the kingdom of Christ is not a kingdom of peace, but of war. If you wait till he comes again you have missed the kingdom of Christ. 1 John 2:18, 22 :4:3 and 2 John 1:7 antichrist has already come and that there are many of them. Please respond.
My reply > That happened in A.D. 70 to that generation. That coming was at the door.
Sure it did. Historians just failed to record when the abomination of desolation was placed in the temple (Mt. 24:15), when the sun, moon, and stars were darkened (Mt. 24:29), when the Son of man was seen sitting on the throne (Rev. 6:16) in the heavens (Mt. 24:30), and when the angels gathered together his elect from one end of the Earth (Mark 13:27) to the other and from one end of Heaven to the other (Mt. 24:31).
> Luke 12:37 "Blessed are those servants, who the lord when he cometh shall find
> watching: This is simply a parable that Jesus told that we should live a life
> of readiness or holiness. This really has nothing to do with the rapture
Then you will probably not be watching when "we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air" (I Thess. 4:17).
Jesus warns, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Rev. 3:3).
> "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of
> reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will
> of God, ye might receive the promise.
Our patience is to be rewarded. The promise is to "be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air." Jesus said, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown" (Rev. 3:10,11).
Luke 21:36 says, "WATCH ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS (the Tribulation) that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." The word for escape is EKPHEUGO, "escape OUT OF or AWAY FROM." We get our word EXIT from the prefix, "EK." Strong's gives "vanish" as an alternate meaning for EKPHEUGO.
You are obviously not going to watch for a Rapture you don't believe in. You are obviously not going to pray to escape all these things when you think they have already taken place. So--please tell me how you plan to do what the Lord told you to do in Luke 21:36.
> Obviously a "little while" is not 2000 years. A "little while" was A.D. 70.
I think we are living in the "yet a little while" right now. Heb. 10:35-38 says, "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." I just happen to think that this little while only began last Pentecost. That is a little while to when I expect the Rapture.
> The book of Hebrews was written sometime from 60-65 A.D. The Hebrew nation
> was attacked in A.D. 66 by the Roman army. Now that is a little while.
And Revelation was written about 96 AD. And you think those things happened in 70 AD too. At the breaking of sixth seal, the sun and moon were darkened just as in Mt. 24:29. Also, the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in both Rev. 6:16 and Mt. 24:30. Therefore, according to your kind of reasoning, Revelation was written after the fact. Historians just forgot to record when the mountain burning with fire hit the sea (Rev. 8:8). Oh yes, and also when Babylon was hit by an asteroid and destroyed so completely that it "shall be found no more at all" (Rev. 18:21, Rev. 8:10).
Historians also forgot a few other things. They forgot to record when the "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations...came out of great tribulation" and stood "before the throne of God" (Rev. 7:9,14,15). That is also in Mt. 24:31 and Mk. 13:27. They even forgot to tell us when it did not rain for 3 1/2 years (Rev. 11:6). They forgot to tell us what the Mark of the Beast turned out to be. They also forgot to tell us when Christ came out of the heavens riding on a white horse (Rev. 19:11). They forgot to mention when the beast and false prophet were thrown in the lake of fire and when Satan was chained. You know, I sure wonder why with Satan chained, we have so much evil in this world.
> When will you finally decide you are awaiting a fairy tale?
Never. You believe a fairy tale, that all the Tribulation took place in 70 AD.
> There is no superiority of the Jews according to the Bible.
Only straight from the Lord's mouth. In John 4:22, he said, "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS."
> The great tribulation clearly took place in A.D. 70
If this is so, where is the smoke going up from Babylon forever? Rev. 19:3 says, "And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever." Find me that smoke and I might consider what you say.
> No place in the New Testament by any apostle does it refer to another
> temple being built.
Only by the apostle John. Rev. 11:1 says, "AND there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein."
> antichrist has already come
You'll see. The two beasts of Rev. 13 have not yet made themselves known. When the asteroid, called "the curse" in Zechariah 5:3, is to impact Earth and destroy Babylon, the Lord says, "I will bring it forth, saith the LORD (YHVH) of hosts (Christ, Isa. 44:6), and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet who steals what is left of the church), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Tribulation Pope): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof" (Zech. 5:4). That is when the smoke will go up forever.
My friend, you are fooling yourself if you think that prophecies written in 96 AD took place in 70 AD. I hope you are right with the Lord and will go in the Rapture in spite of yourself, but if you don't, my advise will be to read Revelation as if it is still future, because those things will be coming to pass very soon.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ is at the Rapture. The book is written as if the Rapture were at hand--as it really is right now. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (Rev. 1:3; 22:10). If you are still here after the Rapture takes place, you won't need to read the messages to the first six churches. Those messages are to the churches before the Rapture takes place, while the door of Rev. 3:8 is still open. If you are here after that door closes, you can start reading with Rev. 3:14. Then continue on after the "Come up hither" in Rev. 4:1 to find out what is coming "hereafter."
If you should miss the Pre-Trib Rapture, the ones "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" of Rev. 5:9, who are made "unto our God kings and priests" (Rev. 5:10), hang on to the fact that there is also a Pre-Wrath Rapture. "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple" (Rev. 7:14,15). They are caught up between the breaking of the sixth seal, when the sun and moon are darkened (Rev. 6:12), and the breaking of the seventh seal (Rev. 8:1). Also, be sure you do not take the Mark of the Beast (Rev. 13:16-18).
Rev. 14:9,10 says, "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God."
I'll see you in Heaven one of those times. I prayed that you would go in the first rank. Prepare yourself, just in case you are wrong. What can that hurt? Use I John 1:9. Confess all your known sins since you first accepted Christ. The Lord will then cleanse you of all unrighteousness. Those Tribulation saints have to wash their robes in the blood of Christ. We all need to bring every sin we can think of under the atoning blood of our precious Saviour. We don't know how much oil of the Holy Spirit we have to have. The safest way is to do what the Scriptures tell us to do, be filled with the Holy Spirit.
My brother was in military training. They parachuted to the ground from a 2000-ft. tower. He pulled his rip cord and got a "Mae West." He thought he had plenty of time but when the instructor yelled like bloody murder twice, "Get in landing position," he got in landing position--just as he hit the ground. Because he trusted the instructor, he got up and walked away. I asked him what he hit, he said, "Plowed ground."
If you don't make it in the first Rapture, I just hope you will listen to your instructor and get in landing position and hit plowed ground. Moses and Elijah will be prophesying for 3 1/2 years. Listen to what they say. They will have been to Heaven and back. They know what it is all about. Listen, and learn, and do.
My brother's time had nearly come. We never know how much time we have left. Six months later, he was killed in a Huey helicopter crash. They hit a box canyon in dense fog in Taiwan and burned--in military GAMES. Thank God he was a Christian, and I'll get to see him again. Please get ready while you have time. Don't take chances and play games. The Rapture could be less than six months away.
Incoming Email I was browsing through your site and I noticed that you have Abram leaving Haran after his father Terah died at the age of 205. However, if you look at Gen. 11:26, then you'll notice that Abram was born on or before Terah's 70th year. Compare this to verse 12:4, in which Abram leaves Haran at the age of 75. This means that Terah could not have been more than the age of 145 when Abram left Haran. This would explain why Abram was leaving his father's house (12:1).
Well, I hope this helps you with your chronology. Sincerely
My reply Thanks for trying, but Abram did leave Haran at 75, when Terah died at 205. I gave you the information you need to figure it out at "2008 AH." Ehlert, Anstey, Panin and Ussher all agree.
Abram was not the firstborn of Terah, just as Shem was not the firstborn of Noah in Gen. 10:1. At the time of the Flood, Shem was 98, Ham 99, and Japheth 100. They are listed in the reverse order of birth. In these cases, the Bible lists the ones in the line of Christ first. The genealogies are mainly given to prove the lineage of Jesus. Agape
Incoming Email I was going over sites when I came upon this webpage of yours, I am a non-denominational Vhristian, and I teach Sunday School, and as far as I can tell it says in the bible nobody will know when the rapture is coming, so now that you've named a date it will definately not happen.
My reply God made his plans before the world began, and he will bring it all to pass 100%. Isa. 46:9,10 says, "I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and will will do all my pleasure."
Do you actually think that God changes his plans because of anything I say? If he changed his plan because someone named a date, Satan would have a heyday. He would make sure every day was named by someone. Then nothing in God's plan would ever take place. The very fact that all God's prophecies have come true 100% so far should tell you that this is not the way God operates.
Incoming Email Re: rapture
This is by far the most popular of all the contemporary teachings of our day. It is contemporary for it was not heard of until the 1830's.
***From Marilyn: Respectfully, you are not listening, and you are not consistent. I will copy our last email exchange below so you will understand what I am saying. I gave you proof that someone way back between 374-627 AD understood and taught that there would be a Rapture. I have a copy of his whole sermon. This man understood what he was saying. Also, last time you said this "rapture doctrine was never heard of until the 1850's. Now, in spite of having an early quote, you say, "it was not heard of until the 1830's." Your figures do not agree.
You wrote: Re: rapture
this popular dispensational, rapture doctrine was never heard of until the 1850's. john darby by the plymouth brethren began to propagate it, and this escape doctrine was accepted and it spread like wildfire in a dry forest. this doctrine was placed into scofield's bible in the early 1900's and was recived as though it was the apostolic teachings from the first century. please respond
My reply That is not true. You sound like you are parroting something that someone else said without checking it out for yourself.
In his just-under-1500-word sermon (c.374-627 AD), "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World," Pseudo-Ephraem said, "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins."
Its name shows that it demands a tribulation. Without a tribulation, there is no need for this rapture. It is based upon the seventieth week of Daniel. It teaches that the Lord comes. The resurrection of saints happens. The resurrected saints and the church are removed from te planet into some place in the air and clouds for the seven years.
***Job 5:24 says, "thou shalt visit thy habitation (which is Heaven), and shalt not sin."
During these seven years, the great tribulation is poured out by God upon natural Israel and all the wicked. It finds the seven years and the sventy weeks from the book Daniel 9 (not from the Revelation). Of course, no rapture is mentioned in Daniel 9. It finds its rapture from 1 Thessalonians 4 (not from the Revelation).
***There are two Raptures in The Revelation of Jesus Christ. The first group is called up to Heaven in Rev. 4:1. They are "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Rev. 5:9).
***The second group is "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" (Rev. 7:9). They stand before the throne in heaven, and "are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
of course, no tribulation is mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4. It finds its judgements of tribulation from the Revelation. Of course, no rapture is mentioned, nor is seven years mentioned there. (This usually surprises people to discover that of all the sevens of Revelation, there is no seven years).
***Revelation has a surprise for you. There are 1260 days in the first half of the Tribulation. These are seen in Rev. 11:3. There are also 1260 days in the last half of the Tribulation, called the Great Tribulation. These are found in Rev. 12:6 and 14. Together, they equal seven years.
This dispensational doctrine makes the point that the entrie body of Christ is raptured,
***The Bride of Christ is taken out of the Body of Christ, just as Eve was taken out of the body of Adam.
but then contradicts itself by saying those in the Laodicean church cannot participate. Although they have "prayed the sinners prayer" and "confessed" and done what others did to be saved, they are not raptured for they actually are not a part of the true body who really accepted Jesus.
***The Laodiceans are part of the Body of Christ, but they have no white raiment. They are blind and don't even know it (Rev. 3:17,18). To be included in the second Rapture, they have to repent (Rev. 3:19) and wash their robes in the blood of Christ (Rev. 7:14).
I have checked it out for myself in the bible. People takes the bible and twistes scriptures around. It's time to put our suit cases up and take back what god has given us. The bible sayes, Psalms:37.29 the righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it [forever].
***II Tim. 2:15 says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workmen that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." The Church and Israel have different destinies. The Church is promised Heaven. Israel is promised the Earth.
***However, Heb. 11 speaks of Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Sara. They have been given a choice of whether they want to live in Heaven or on Earth. In verses 15 and 16, it says, "And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out (Earth), they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city" (New Jerusalem).
You are welcome to Earth. I made my choice--Heaven. It is a better place. Moth and rust do not corrupt. Nothing that defiles is allowed there. Thieves do not break through and steal. And, best of all, the Lord is there. Rev. 22:3 says, "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it (the heavenly New Jerusalem): and his servants shall serve him."
Incoming Email Hello Marilyn. I am a young woman in -- working, and going to school. My father is a pastor, and my entire life has been patterned around religion. As a young adult, I have my own questions and I have been asking God for truth and enlightenment. Three nights ago I prayed, feeling very discouraged, for these things above. I had a dream that God was speaking to me from Heaven. He was telling me to go outside and lay down so that I could see the entire sky when it was full of stars and I would find the truth. Two days ago I was revealed to an important carnal truth, but I was still lacking the spiritial. Then last night when I got home from work my father handed me some papers after I asked him some questions about Genesis. They were your articles on the catastrophe, the cherubim, and the flaming sword. When I finished, I realized God was giving me those truths, and your work gave me the enlightenment! I could see the irony in my dream and your discoveries, and I am still so excited! Thank you. If you have any other work, I am interested and I would like to know how to purchase your book you mentioned. Sincerely
My reply Thank you for sharing this with me. I answer as many questions as possible by email and post the ones of general interest on Pro and Cons on my web site. If I can be of help, let me know. I have studied the Bible as hard and as deep as I can go since before 1960.
I think the Rapture may take place this coming Pentecost. We should get ready, confess all sins since we accepted Christ, as per I John 1:9. For more on Pentecost, see the file at http://www.kiwi.net/~mjagee/pentecost1999.html
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Incoming Email I will be praying for that 7 day warning for the next couple months if indeed He is coming in May. I have to believe that ALL Spirit filled believers will recognize a warning somehow. How?? Seeing a vision of His coming in dreams; an event such as Antichrist rising up on earth; a 7 year agreement coming to pass May 23rd as announced earlier; a war, disaster; sign in heaven?? I don't expect a sign from heaven; or the world would be made alert. You don't know how much I want to be with Jesus. You may not think with the letters I've sent that I do; but it is so hard after years of frustration to be totally releasing myself to the exceeding joy of such Hope brings. It says in Proverbs or Psalms somewhere that "Hope deferred makes the heart sick." I don't want to set my sights on this and be disappointed. I REALLY don't want to have to go through 2 more years past that time when all MUST be fulfilled for a 40 year generation to be complete; and the second coming to be fulfilled, only to realize that Jesus means just a generation in general who lives to see this happen; which could last 80 years if it includes a man's ENTIRE lifetime on average; or just the generation which sees all things occur from the first seal of Revelation to the last trumpet being a 40 year generation which sees these trials come to pass within the span of this time. (7 years); or the generation meaning just the Jews who live to see Jerusalem freed from Gentile control living to see Messiah's return; which could mean even longer; if like Nineveh; for example. It could just mean the final time period which we are in will not revert back to Gentile control; or total control anyway until His return.
Still hoping; but still living in this world
My reply I don't know if we will get a 7-day warning, but Noah did, so maybe we will. As to what it might be, I don't know. Seven days before the 21st would be May 14. It's the anniversary of the RESURRECTION of Israel. That could be significant. Wonder if the dead in Christ will begin to be raised at that time. There are a lot more dead in Christ than we who remain alive. Will a symbolic loading of the Ark begin? Will the resurrected go up into the clouds two by two? Gen. 7:10 says, "And it came to pass AFTER SEVEN DAYS, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth." The Lord will come as the rain (Hos. 6:3). That would fit Christ coming for the living saints. Do you suppose this Rapture operation could take 40 days? Jesus ascended after 40 days in 30 AD. The rain fell 40 days in Noah's day. Food for thought. We'll just have to wait and see what happens May 14-21. Watch the news. It could be very interesting.
> it is so hard after years of frustration to be totally releasing myself to the exceeding
> joy of such Hope brings. It says in Proverbs or Psalms somewhere that "Hope deferred
> makes the heart sick." I don't want to set my sights on this and be disappointed.
And Psa. 16:9,10 says, "Therefore my heart is GLAD, and my glory REJOICETH: my flesh also shall REST IN HOPE."
I don't feel the way you do at all. I am not afraid to experience joy. If things do not happen when I think they will, I am willing to be patient until the right time. It will come when it is supposed to. I can live with that. What is worse, to experience joy and be disappointed for awhile longer or to never experience joy at all and still be disappointed awhile. I just let go and let God do things his own way in his own time, knowing all along that he knows what is best. He does have the whole world in his hand. If you were Peter walking on the water, would you keep your confidence because you had already walked a few steps that proved that it was possible, or would you start to doubt you could do it?
> generation in general who lives to see this happen; which could last 80 years if it
> includes a man's ENTIRE lifetime on average; or just the generation which sees all
> things occur from the first seal of Revelation to the last trumpet being a 40 year
> generation which sees these trials come to pass within the span of this time. (7 years);
> or the generation meaning just the Jews who live to see Jerusalem freed from Gentile
> control living to see Messiah's return; which could mean even longer
Whoa. Don't turn your imagination loose on this. :-) You don't have to speculate about the length of a generation. In Mt. 23:36, Jesus told the Pharisees that "All these things shall come upon THIS GENERATION." They did, in 70 AD, 40 years afterwards. Also, the Israelites wandered in the wilderness 40 years while one generation died off.
"Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world (lit. ages) are come" (I Cor. 10:11).
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