Pro and Con 290

Uploaded 3-22-99, PM

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Check This Out
I read your site all the time, but I haven't emailed you in a long time. I thought you'd be interested in this news report I heard the other day. NASA has finally determined what you knew all along to be true. The Moon formed by being split off from the earth. Your specific site URL with this information is:

http://www.kiwi.net/~mjagee/catast.html

and the Reuters report is at the following URL

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/sc/story.html?s=v/nm/19990316/sc/moon_1.html

Christ's peace and light be with you and your family

My reply

Thank you very much. As you guessed, this one area in which I have an intense interest. Since news stories do not stay up long, anyone that wishes to see the article should do so quickly. It is copyrighted, so I cannot copy it for you. The title is, "Moon Probably Split From Earth In Collision - NASA."

It says that new data from the Lunar Prospector supports this. The findings were presented at a scientific meeting in Houston. The mass of the Moon's core, 4% as compared with 30% for the Earth, "could indicate that the Moon was actually originally part of the larger planet that was ripped away following a huge collision" after Earth's core had already formed. Material ejected at impact later "collected to form the Moon."

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Bobby Dill wrote: (Bobby@unclejoes.com)
I just checked for Sivan 6, 5759 (May. 21,1999) and found it in six places.
Searching for next day also gave the same finds.
Gen, 11:7 at skip distance of 3
Psalm 103:1-2 skip distance of 7
Ruth 4:20-21 skip distance of 8
Judges 7:11-12 skip distance of 8
Nehemiah 3:27-28 skip distance of 9
1 Kings 1:15-16 skip distance of 10

  Notice surface text of last passage, Bathsheba bowing to the King, could be the Bride bowing to the Husband.
Skip distances are all very low and verses are only one and two long.

My reply

Thanks....These are all interesting.
Gen, 11:7: "Go to, let us go down..."
Psalm 103:2: "Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits"
Ruth 4:21: verse 17 says of the son of RUTH and Boaz, "Obed: he is the father of Jesse, the father of David." Then v. 21 says, And Salmon begat Boaz, and Boaz begat Obed."
Judges 7:11-12: "afterward shall thine hands be strengthened to do down unto the host."
Nehemiah 3:27-28: they were repairing the wall of Jerusalem.
1 Kings 1:15-16: "And Bathsheba bowed, and did obeisance unto the king. And the king said, What wouldest thou?" This reminds me of king Ahasuerus asking Esther what she wanted of him when she was instrumental in saving Israel. I have a feeling we may be asked if the Lord should save Israel, and we will say, "Yes."

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Bobby Dill wrote:
I found Shavuot 5759 at Jer. 31:7-14
Letters found in verses 7,8,9,11,12,13, & 14

My reply

Oh wow! In the last email, I almost said the last part of this. Jer. 31:7 says, "For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and SAY, O LORD, SAVE THY PEOPLE, THE REMNANT OF ISRAEL."
V. 12 says, "Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD...their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all."

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Bobby Dill wrote:
I found Natzal (Rapture) 12 times,

  Ex. 38:10-40:17 - Skip Distance 803
1 Sam 30:16-2 Sam 1:27 sd=615
Jer 17:26-21:1 sd=731
Ezek 21:21-23:33 sd=823
Prov 26:3-31:5 sd=887
Neh 11:4-18 sd=150
1 Chr 26:17-27:32 sd=510
Josh 22:4 - 23:12 sd=647
2 Kings 10:2-10:32 sd=418
2 King 16:7-17:14 sd=373
Job 21:10-24:13 sd=461
2 Chron 8:16-10:1 sd=435

  Searching for Natzal 5759 gave same results.

  I used a skip search of 1 to 1000 only.
++++
I found Shilhuv (Rapture) 15 times.

  Gen 25:28-26:1 sd=50
Gen 32:19-36:5 sd=812
Num 18:25-22:11 sd=944
Deut 2:27-4:24 sd=653
2 Kings 25:27-Isa 3:5 sd=482
Ezek 26:19-30:9 sd=839
Ps 56:11-68:16 sd=883
Ps 119:51-119:102 sd=226
Lev 13:36-15:33 sd=990
Num 4:35-6:23 sd=603
2 Sam 7:11-11:13 sd=832
Jer 17:27-21-12 sd712
Ps 135:21-145:17 sd=774
Neh 13:21-1 Chron 1:32 sd=251

  Again using skip search of 1 to 1000 only.

  Marlyn, I forgot to tell you that I am using Biblecodes Plus Software that just came out in Jan of 1999.

My reply

I sure appreciate you doing this.

> Searching for Natzal 5759 gave same results.

Do you mean that every time you found Natzal (Rapture), you found Natzal 5759? If so, that is amazing....

Incoming Email

I'm a bit confused on your post of 3-22, P&C 288. You said:

>To me, it seems possible either this Pentecost or next. However, the 12 months Queen Esther was purified make this year the most likely.<

Are you becoming doubtful as to this Pentecost?

and

>On p. 277, Avi said, "Legally, we are married, but the groom has not returned for His bride and we watch and wait for the marriage to be consummated. When will that happen? I do not claim to know the Gregorian year, but I am confident it will happen on the first day of the seventh month according to the Jewish calendar, in the Jewish year 6001....which according to my calculations could fall as early as September of 1999."<

Was September a date for the consummation and is that the same as the rapture? Isn't there a wedding feast to attend as well?

Getting mixed messages.

As others have said, when your page is not up we get concerned for you and your family, as well as missing your constant assurance that He's coming soon!

Good to see your page updates. God Bless

My reply

> Are you becoming doubtful as to this Pentecost?

No!!! Personally, I expect it this Pentecost. I just try to be as objective as possible and think about it from every angle. You see, I have no pet scheme to defend. I only want the truth as the Bible presents it. I don't try to bend anything to make it fit. I let the Scripture say what it says and try to figure out what it means.

Taking the long view, I have always said that the Rapture has to take place before the Tribulation begins, and I think that starts on the Feast of Weeks in 2001. However, there has to be a gap between the Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation. I try to find any clues I can to figure out how large this gap is. I have been doing this ever since 1969. This slice of time is getting so squeezed now with the passage of time that the Rapture can't be far off any way we figure it.

On the other hand, many major clues seem to point to 1998, even in retrospect. For instance, we can't change these things:

5278 (1517) + 400 = 5678 (1917/1918) the modern Exodus began
5278 (1517) + 430 = 5708 (1947/1948) Israel declared her Independence
5278 (1517) + 450 = 5728 (1967/1968) Israel grew leaves in the Six-Day War
5278 (1517) + 480 = 5758 (1997/1998)
5278 (1517) + 483 = 5761 (2000/2001)
5278 (1517) + 490 = 5768 (2007/2008)

The only thing that makes sense in my head for it not to have happened last Pentecost is a trial of our faith. Queen Esther was purified 12 months before being taken to the king. We have that in writing in the Word of God. The Hebrew engagement was 12 months to prove the bride a virgin. Jesus told Peter that Satan would like to have him to sift him like wheat. We are wheat, and if Peter was sifted, our chances of being sifted are just about 100%.

Peter himself said of the elect's "lively HOPE (the Rapture) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead (at the Rapture the bodies of the saints are resurrected), To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME (kairoo, time, or year). Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now FOR A SEASON, if need be (Green: 'now, for a little while, since IT IS NECESSARY'), ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations (peirasmois, trials): That the TRIAL (dokimion, PROVING) OF YOUR FAITH, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the APPEARING (apokalupsei, revelaton, unveiling, i.e., at the Rapture) of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, THOUGH NOW YE SEE HIM NOT, YET BELIEVING, YE REJOICE WITH JOY UNSPEAKABLE AND FULL OF GLORY: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the GRACE that should come UNTO YOU: SEARCHING WHAT, OR WHAT MANNER OF TIME the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto US they did minister the things which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and HOPE TO THE END for the grace that is to be brought unto you AT THE REVELATION (apokalupsei, unveiling) OF JESUS CHRIST; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's WORK, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: Forasmuch as ye know that ye (elect) were (past tense) not redeemed with corruptible things...But with the precious blood of Christ." (I Peter 1:4-13).

> Was September a date for the consummation and is that the same as the
> rapture? Isn't there a wedding feast to attend as well?

I think the Marriage of the Lamb and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb will take place on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5768, Sept. 13, 2007. The Pre-Wrath Rapture for the Tribulation saints is that same day.

Incoming Email

Please note a thought came into my mind about 5-21. I thought to myself why don't I look at the beginning of the Bible, in Genesis and see what it says in Genesis 5, starting with verse 21. Well something amazing took place. I realized after reading it that this just might be a clue for us in our days for the Rapture.

Enoch lived 365 years and then Enoch walked with God, for God took him. (He was Raptured} Maybe, just maybe, the 365 years of Enoch could represent (1 year - 365 days) to the Rapture Day? Since Enoch was the first one in the Bible mentioned to be Raptured in the beginning of the Bible (Genesis), and we are living in the last days in the end part of the Bible (Revelation). If 1 day is as if a 1000 years and 1000 years is as a 1 day with the Lord, then maybe 365 years could represent 365 days also.

The one year waiting period, the engagement period, we have been discussing in our P & C's. Genesis 5-21...365, 5-21...1999 (1 year later)? If this is true, then the Rapture could not take place next year 2000, because it is a leap year, therefore, 366 days.

Please note that Genesis 5 lists (Generations: Adam to Noah) All who are mentioned from Adam to Noah DIED; EXCEPT FOR ENOCH, GOD TOOK HIM, HE WAS RAPTURED.

Genesis 5 verse 21 begins with "When Enoch was sixty-five years old, he became the father of Methuselah. Enoch lived three hundred years after the birth of Methuselah, and he had other sons and daughters. The whole lifetime of Enoch was THREE HUNDRED AND SIXTY-FIVE YEARS. THEN ENOCH WALKED WITH GOD, AND HE WAS NO LONGER HERE, FOR GOD TOOK HIM."

Wouldn't it be wonderful if this turned out to be a clue for the Rapture in our days?

What are you thoughts on this Marilyn, is it possible, do you think it could it apply to the above mentioned? In HIS LOVE

My reply

I have also wondered if the 365 has a special meaning. It seems rather obvious since it appears in connection with Enoch.

Heb. 11:5,6 says, "By faith Enoch (teacher) was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

It is obvious here that Enoch is not going to be one of the two witnesses during the Tribulation, because "Enoch was translated that he should NOT SEE DEATH." The two witnesses are killed. Enoch will not see death. Period. It is also obvious that Enoch believed that God "is a REWARDER of them that diligently seek him." How was Enoch rewarded? by going through great tribulation? famine? refusing to bow down to an image and being beheaded? What kind of a reward for walking with God would that be? No. His reward was that when 365 years of walking with God rolled by, he was taken to be with God. This was before Methuselah died, and before Noah's Flood.

Jude 14,15 says, "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, PROPHESIED of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

Enoch was not only a Godly man, he was a prophet. Therefore, his 365 years may in themselves prophesy to us at the end of this age. We will have to wait and see if they tie in with this solar year. The chances are good that they do.

> If this is true, then the Rapture could not take place next
> year 2000, because it is a leap year, therefore, 366 days.

From May 31,1998 to May 21, 1999 isn't 365 days either, but this could be enough to make us think of Pentecost to Pentecost as one year. I don't think our leap year would enter into it. Things seem to be figured in Jewish years.

Since the words "God took him" are in Gen. 5:24, I don't think they signify 5-21.

It is now 12:28 AM, March 22. We just had a small earthquake, not enough to do any damage here.

Incoming Email

I have read and considered your prophecy about the rapture, and i think that it makes perfect sense. There are too many things that fall in place for it to be too wrong. I would be very surprised if your prophecy of the rapture being May 23, 1999 turned out to be wrong. Your prophecy gives me so much hope, and i think that that is what prophecy is all about, edifying The Body of Christ. I don't see a lot of logic in people who say that Jesus told us that we should not know the times of the rapture. We are God's children, and i believe that it is God's will that we be in The Light and not have that day come upon us as a thieve. "For ye have an unction from The Holy One, and ye know ALL things." "But God hath revealed these things unto us by His Spirit, for The Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God." "For The Anointing which you have received of Him abides in you and you need not that any man teach you." I Thessalonians 5:4 says "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of The Light, and the children of the day; we are not of night, nor of darkness." I believe that Revelation 2-4 is speaking of the apostate condition of many of the "churches" today. I don't know how you feel about the state of the charismatic movement today, but it is certainly not sound in doctrine. MANY times in Scripture we are told to beware of false prophets which shall be prevalent in the last days. So, i don't think that these chapter are talking about economic problems or worldly problems...they are talking about the spiritual condition of the church. This is The Trial of our Faith.. "That The Trial of your faith, being much more precious than gold, which perishes, though it be tried with fire, should be found unto praise and honor and glory at The Appearing of Jesus Chrsit." This seems to me to be saying that we are to undergo a test, a sifting (as with Peter). It says "being much more precious than gold which perishes THOUGH IT BE TRIED WITH FIRE." In I Corinthians 3:12-15 it seems to be taling about the judgement of Christians to determine rewards (at the rapture?) These shall be tried with fire. "Every man's work shall be made manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it shall BECAUSE IT SHALL BE REVEALED BY FIRE, AND THE FIRE SHALL TRY EVERY MAN'S WORK OF WHAT SORT IT IS." In verse 15, it proves(?) that this judgement is at the rapture, right after or soon after, for it says, "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved yet so as by fire." Only Christians will stand the test of fire, because we are in Christ. Note also that it says "for the day shall declare it." i am not sure, but these may seem to link this judgement soon after the rapture with the passage above about we are not in the darkness but are the children of the day and of the Light and need not that THAT day overtake us as a thief. (I Thessalonians 5:2-4). Revelation 3:3 is another warning from Jesus Christ that we should watch, or "I (Jesus) will come upon thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." IF WE ARE IN THE NIGHT AND SLEEP AND DO NOT WATCH, JESUS SAID THAT HE WILL COME UPON US AND WE WILL NOT KNOW WHAT HOUR HE WILL COME UPON THEE.

My reply

> rapture being May 23, 1999

After more study, I think Friday, Sivan 6, May 21, makes the most sense, although Bobby Dill found both Sivan 6, 5759 and Sivan 7, 5759 in the Bible Codes.

The Jews count the omer to Pentecost by inclusive reckoning, and Josephus told us which day starts the countdown. He said, "But on the second day of unleavened bread, which is the sixteenth day of the month, they first partake of the fruits of the earth, for before that day they do not touch them...they offer the first-fruits of their barley...When a week of weeks has passed over after this sacrifice, (which weeks contain forty and nine days,) in the fiftieth day, which is Pentecost...nor is there any one of the festivals but in it they offer burnt-offerings; they also allow themselves to rest on every one of them....they are to rest entirely" (Ant.III.X.5.6). This shows that the counting of the omer began on Nisan 16, which does not always fall on Sunday. Therefore, Pentecost will not always fall on Sunday.

Since there are no more Sivan 6's that fall on Sunday before the 40-year probation from the Six-Day War in 1967 is up, I had to take a new look at "the Lord's day" in Rev. 1:10. I had thought it indicated Sunday, but Josephus was a priest, a Pharisee. He should have known which day they started the countdown.

This Lord's day is not the millennial Day of the Lord, but it is probably the "ONE (mia, first) of the DAYS (plural) of the Son of man" of Lu. 17:22. These two days represent the two Raptures, just as the first and last trump do. Verse 26 says, "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the DAYS of the Son of man." In other words, we will be floated up by water (i.e., the Holy Spirit).

The first one of these days of the Son of man is as the days of Noah. The second is as the days of Lot, "But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day (singular) when the Son of man is revealed" (Lu. 17:29,30). This second day of the Son of man is the day that "the sign of the Son of man" will appear in the heavens (Mt. 24:30).

In Mt. 24:19, Jesus mentioned "them" twice. The setting is the middle of the Tribulation. Verse 21 is also at that time. It says, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Now look at verse 20 that is sandwiched in between the two verses above. All through this chapter, Jesus was talking to "the disciples" (v. 3). Suddenly, in v. 20, he said, "But pray YE that YOUR FLIGHT be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day." Did he turn to his disciples and say this as an aside to them directly? Why did Jesus not say that "them that give suck in those days" should pray that THEIR flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day?

Not in the winter agrees with Song of Solomon 2:11's, For, lo, the winter is past." Does Mt. 24:20 refer to the Rapture? If so, it would not take place on Saturday, May 22, 1999 in Jerusalem.

The clues are here a little and there a little that the wicked will fall backward and be taken (Isa. 28:9-13). The above is not the only place that a statement is thrown in without relating to the context. Here is Col. 4:10,11. The parentheses are part of the KJV, and the information so set off has nothing to do with the context. It says, "Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him)." And Jesus, which is called justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me."

This seems to be a veiled message to Tribulation saints to receive Moses when he comes back. The letter was addressed to "the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse," (which means punishment, correction). It is fitting to have a hidden message to the Tribulation saints in Colossians. In Col. 4:15, Paul said, "Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea...And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans."

> charismatic movement today, but it is certainly not sound in doctrine.

False teaching abounds everywhere, so we have to compare everything with Scripture.

> "That The Trial of your faith, being much more precious than gold, which
> perishes, though it be tried with fire, should be found unto praise and
> honor and glory at The Appearing of Jesus Christ."

Christ is to appear to the church at the Rapture. It looks like the trial of our faith is before the Rapture.

> This seems to me to be saying that we are to undergo a test, a sifting (as with Peter).

I think we are being tested this way right now.

> In I Corinthians 3:12-15 it seems to be taling about the judgement of Christians to
> determine rewards (at the rapture?) These shall be tried with fire. "Every man's
> work shall be made manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it shall BECAUSE
> IT SHALL BE REVEALED BY FIRE, AND THE FIRE SHALL TRY EVERY MAN'S WORK OF WHAT SORT IT
> IS." In verse 15, it proves(?) that this judgement is at the rapture, right after or
> soon after, for it says, "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but
> he himself shall be saved yet so as by fire."

This passage in I Cor. 3:11-15 is talking about the Judgment Seat of Christ. I think it follows the second Rapture on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

> saved yet so as by fire."

This refers to what we build on the foundation which is Christ. It is our works done after we are saved. Even though our works burn up as wood, hay and stubble, we ourselves are saved. It is as if our house burns down and all our possessions are lost, but be ourselves got out alive.

> Note also that it says "for the day shall declare it."

This first day of the Millennium is the great day like no other. It is Christ's Coronation Day, the day of the Marriage of the Lamb, the time of the Judgment Seat of Christ and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. The saints in Heaven receive their rewards at the same time that the unbelievers on Earth get their just rewards for their unbelief (Rev. 11:15-18).

Incoming Email

I have just finished reading P/Cs 264 and 265, and I still marvel at your ability to argue from scripture. Oh that I had your capacity with His Word.

I noticed that a reader asked if the war in Rev 12 was the same war spoken of in Genesis. You replied that you weren't sure what war the writer was referring to. May I be so bold as to suggest that perhaps the reader was eluding to the "Gap Theory" which, as you know, suggests that a vast "gap" of time exists between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. According to this view, many generations of plants, animals, and pre-Adamic men lived during the eons of time that existed between the two verses. But then God destroyed that creation because of a Satanic rebellion which left the earth "waste and void" (Gen 1:2). After refreshing the earth, God then told Adam and Eve to fill (replenish) the earth (Gen 1:28).

While the theory is still debated in many circles, it does appear to parallel your reader's question.

My reply

Thanks. I don't know to what he referred, but the war in Rev. 12 is Mid-Trib.

I agree that there is a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

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Updated 3-22-99