Pro and Con 293
Uploaded 3-28-99, PM
Incoming Email My husband and I are discussing Ezekial's vision of the Cherubim - My huband personifies these "living creatures" as "angellic beings" (faces of man, lion, ox, and eagle) from the NIV version. What do the wheels have to do with the Cherubim? How do you get planets out of these? We read your site about the Cherubim and the flaming sword. We can't make any connnection to planets or orbits. Can you help us out? Thanks.
My reply He is not alone in thinking these are angelic beings. I spent seven years reading books about the Bible trying to find someone that could tell me what the cherubim and flaming sword stand for. Some claimed the cherubim were angels, but there are things in Ezek. 1 and 10 that do not fit angels very well. Other authors either left it out or went off on a fanciful trip that I could not believe. They seemed to not have the slightest idea about the flaming sword of Gen. 3:24, either. I had to figure it all out for myself.
I think the cherubim are inanimate objects personified. They are lively things instead of living creatures. They are seen with wings because they fly. The four faces are symbolic of the four cardinal points of the compass, because these are the four faces that were on the banners that were placed to the E, S, W and N of the circular Hebrew encampment around the tabernacle in the wilderness. Ox equals west, man south, lion east, and eagle north. The wheels are the concentric rings traced in the sky as the terrestrial planets orbit around the Sun.
Clue #1: Eze. 1:1: "the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God."
Right away we know that this is a vision of "the heavens." In verse 26, we find that God here is Christ, the only "God"/"man," sitting on a throne "as the appearance of a sapphire stone." Sapphire means "dear to the planet Saturn," from the Sanskrit "Sani," Saturn, and "priya," dear. And "it (Saturn) had brightness round about. As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain" (1:27,28). Saturn has a halo of ice crystals that sparkle in the sunlight. When we see ice crystals sparkling in the sunlight, we see a rainbow. From so far away, we do not see all the sparkling colors, but we do see Saturn's rings with a telescope.
Clue #2: Eze. 1:4: "a FIRE INFOLDING ITSELF, and a brightness ("nogah," sunlight) was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire."
In the center of the picture was the amber Sun, an atomic "fire infolding itself," with sunlight around it.
Clue #3: Ezek. 1:22: "And the likeness of the firmament (lit., expanse of space) upon the heads of the living creature (lively thing) was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth OVER THEIR HEADS ABOVE."
In the expance of space between the Sun and Saturn are the four moving things. Ezek. 1:10 says, "in the firmament (expanse of space that was ABOVE the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne."
Clue #4: Eze. 1:16: "The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were (symbolic language) a wheel in the middle of a wheel."
All four flying things have concentric orbits, a circle in the middle of a circle, etc. Ezek. 10:9 says, "behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub...they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel."
Clue #5: Eze. 1:15: "behold one wheel upon the EARTH."
One of the four concentric circular orbits belongs to the Earth. Therefore, the four planets are the terrestrial planets, Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars. We know they are the terrestrial planets because 1:5 says, "they had the likeness of a man ('adam,' which means 'red clay')."
Clue #6: Eze. 1:13: "their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps."
Their outer edges also look like disks (1:7). The reference to lamps ties is with the candlestick. Josephus was a priest. He said that the candlestick "spread itself into as many branches as there are planets, including the sun among them. It terminated in seven heads, in one row, all standing parallel to one another; and these branches carried seven lamps, one by one, in imitation of the number of the planets. These lamps looked to the east and to the south, the candlestick being situate obliquely" (Ant.III.VII.7).
These planets are the ones that can be seen with the naked eye. The candlestick represented (1) Sun, (2) Mercury, (3) Venus, (4) EARTH, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter, (7) SATURN. That Saturn is number seven fits Zech 3:9 (LXX). It says, "For as for the stone which I have set before the face of Jesus, on the one stone are seven eyes (orbs, circles, rings)." Saturn has seven rings. THAT IS FITTING FOR SEVEN IS GOD"S NUMBER. (I did not mean to capitalize that last sentence. It just came out that way without the shift key or caps lock key being down.)
Clue #7: Eze. 1:17: "When they went, they went upon their FOUR SIDES (four directions they faced): and they turned not (aside) when they went."
They do not deviate from the circular pattern of their orbit. In sequence, they face west, then south, then east, then north, then west again, orbiting in a counterclockwise direction. Ezek. 10:14 says, "the first face was the face of a cherub (or 'ox,' west), and the second face was the face of a man (south), and the third the face of a lion (east), and the fourth the face of an eagle (north)."
Clue #8: Eze. 10:19: "And the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth (rising from the eastern horizon) in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also were beside them, and every one stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD'S house: and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above."
Because of the rotation of the Earth, all the planets seem to rise from the eastern horizon and set in the west.
I hope this helps.
Incoming Email I too am a Christian, a Born again Christian! The reason I was wondering was that there are so many sites on the net and some of them have false teachings by what I like to call Cult organizations. Such as: Jehovah witnesses, Mormoms and Church of Christ. I belong to a small fellowship on the Island of Maui Hawaii. We are part of the Calvary Church of Costa Mesa California. Recently a Local Maui Television channel found itself with a program Hosted by an Athiest gentlemen that is Bent on Debunking the Bible, Its on every Wednesday night and Myself and a few other Christian freinds watch and call him on this Live call in show. He has sparked alot of Conteraversy on the Island and many Faiths have since been Devestated! We on the other hand are now on a Crusade for the Truth!!! Thats how I came across your site. I am looking up all the information that I can on the Historicity of Jesus, in other books besides the New Testament; Such as Josephus, Tacitus, Suesonius, etc... I am also very interested in Christian Sciences, and Creationism. We are preparing to Seek the truth to Defend our Faith against this Lunatic!! Who I must add is like I said causing much Controversy on our Island. Any help in finding sites with these topics that you are aware of or if you have any first hand knoledge your self we would love to hear it!! I do currently read books from the Author: Josh Mcdowell and they give quite the awesome facts for defending, but the talk show guy says that Mcdowell has been discredited for many mistakes and for deliberatley lying in his books??? Help if you can! And please keep us in Prayer and the whole Island of Maui! The Lord shall prevail here, now and Forevor!! Oh and thank you for your Fast reply! Lord bless you and keep you.
My reply Concerning Christ, I have these quotes:
The "Tractate Sanhedrin" in the Babylonian Talmud says, "On the Eve of Passover Yeshu was hanged" (Sanhedrin 43a GBT VII. pg. 181; SBT pg. 281).
Josephus Ant. XVIII. III. 3. "Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,--a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."
"About A.D. 110. Tacit. Annal. lib. xv. cap. 44.--Nero, in order to stifle the rumour, [as if he himself had set Rome on fire,] ascribed it to those people who were hated for their wicked practices, and called by the vulgar, Christians: these he punished exquisitely. The author of this name was Christ, who, in the reign of Tiberius, was brought to punishment by Pontius Pilate the procurator."
"About A.D. 147. Just. Mart. Dialog. cum Tryph. p. 230--You [Jews] knew that Jesus was risen from the dead, and ascended into heaven, as the prophecies did foretell was to happen."
"About A.D. 230. Origen. Comment. in Matth. p. 234.--This James was of so shining a character among the people, on account of his righteousness, that Flavius Josephus, when, in his twentieth book of the Jewish Antiquities, he had a mind to set down what was the cause why the people suffered such miseries, till the very holy house was demolished, he said, that these things befell them by the anger of God, on account of what they had dared to do to James, the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ; and wonderful it is, that while he did not receive Jesus for Christ, he did nevertheless bear witness that James was so righteous a man."
"About. A.D. 250. Id. Contr. Cels. lib. i. p. 35, 36.--I would say to Celsus, who personates a Jew, that admitted of John the Baptist and how he baptized Jesus, that one who lived but a little while after John and Jesus, wrote, how that John was a baptizer unto the remission of sins; for Josephus testifies in the eighteenth book of his Jewish Antiquities, that John was the Baptist, and that he promised purification to those that were baptized."
As for books on the cults, the good ones I have read were from the library, and I cannot remember the titles and authors.
If anyone that reads this has more information that will help, please send it to Tim Hunt: email@example.com (Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org)
Incoming Email Look, I know you're busy and all, but I'm desperately asking for help for my friend here. I know you have a sick husband to pray for and a lot of responsibilities; but I'm desperate. Please pray for my friend; and any others like this who are suffering today. I can only hope this is the severe testing; by people who Jesus says will act with the "cares of this world" before the Rapture. I don't want to promise escape; but feel that we can't live without putting our lives on the line. This is a believer; with parents who "claim" to believe and go to church. It seems that these "respectable" families are the ones who have many if not most of the problems in this country today. The church of Christ; it is little better statistically than the world; and the Spirit of God is sorely lacking in working the kind of love and protection for those too young and innocent to protect themselves. Only by having the "blood flow"; and being willing to have our lives put on the line; and facing persecution largely from the "church" (mainly of false believers in these cases) can we truly be alive today.. If Jesus comes to rescue us; this year in a couple months; you won't hear me complaining. But I believe that many will have to fight; for ending these injustices, rather than looking for a quick escape before He comes. Persecution leading to death against evils in this country has been lacking mainly because of the lack of people willing to fight to the death for what they believe in. Since the words "ALL nations shall hate you for my sake"; and "some will think that they are doing God a favor by putting you to death" surely ring true; and will also after the Rapture when an elimation of Christians will appear to have occurred, which the world can continue to proliferate, in their reprobate minds. Situations like Kosovo are likely to explode; and our country must be fought for NOW; if we are to enjoy our full reward someday in heaven. I can't do it on my own; Satan will crush me. I am too timid and afraid; I know that only my Lord can give me the strength. Help me, please and take a minute to pray about this friend of mine.
My reply I prayed for you and your friend. I certainly feel for her. She needs to be comforted. I Thess. 4:18 says, "comfort one another with these words." However, you are not secure enough in your own beliefs to comfort your friend with those words. How do I know? because you said,
> If Jesus comes to rescue us; this year in a couple months; you won't hear me complaining.
> But I believe that many will have to fight; for ending these injustices, rather than
> looking for a quick escape before He comes.
> our country must be fought for NOW; if we are to enjoy our full reward someday in heaven.
> I can't do it on my own; Satan will crush me. I am too timid and afraid; I know that
> only my Lord can give me the strength.
Remember that God is in complete control. "SEE THAT YE BE NOT TROUBLED" at what is going on in the world. We are living in the end of the age, and there are certain things will come to pass no matter what we do or think.
In Mt. 24, Jesus said, "ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: SEE THAT YE BE NOT TROUBLED: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet." He goes through things that are "the beginning of sorrows." Later, he said, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and THEN SHALL THE END COME."
Moses and Elijah will prophesy during the first 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation, and "THEN SHALL THE END COME." The next verse starts with the abomination of desolation in the middle of the Tribulation. Therefore "THE END" referred to here is the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation, called the Great Tribulation.
The disciples had asked Jesus, "what shall be the SIGN of thy coming, and of the END OF THE WORLD (aionos, age)." He answered that in the fig tree parable of Mt. 24:32-34. He said, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7; Hos. 9:10; Eze. 36:8; Jer. 24:5,6); When his branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting, i.e., modern Israel) is yet tender (no more than 19 years old, Nu. 1:3; she was 19 in 1967), and PUTTETH FORTH LEAVES (grows), ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, KNOW THAT IT (the Rapture) IS NEAR, EVEN AT THE DOORS (the Pre-Trib Rapture is the open door of Rev. 3:8 and 4:1; the Pre-Wrath Rapture is the other open door). Verily ('Amen,' truly) I say unto you, THIS GENERATION shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Israel grew leaves (Sinai, West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza Strip) in the Six-Day War of 1967. It started June 5. Summer was nigh, June 21. Israel was 19. You can't change all that. It is history. It was the Sign of the End of the Age.
A generation is 40 years. This was demonstrated for us more than once. Israel was in the wilderness 40 years while one generation died off. In 30 AD, Jesus told the Pharisees, "Verily ('Amen,' truly) I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation" (Mt. 23:36). They did, 40 years later, in 70 AD.
The year of the Sign of the End of the Age, 1967 + 40 = 2007. On the Jewish calendar, 5728 + 40 = 5768, the first day of which is Tishri 1, Sept. 13, 2007. During 5768, all Israel will return to their promised land. Daniel will stand in his lot at the end of 1335 days, counted from the beginning of the Great Tribulation (Dan. 12:13). According to Dan. 8:14, the shortened Tribulation (including the time when the Jews can sacrifice plus the time they can't because the False Prophet desecrates the temple) is 2300 days. Tishri 1, 5768 - 2300 days (counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning) is Sivan 6, 5761, May 28, 2001, the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost.
Luke 21:36 says, "WATCH ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS (the Tribulation) that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." The word for escape is EKPHEUGO, "escape OUT OF or AWAY FROM." We get our word EXIT from the prefix, "EK." Strong's gives "vanish" as an alternate meaning for EKPHEUGO. From ESCAPE to VANISH, not the slightest hint of "survive through."
The Pre-Trib Rapture must take place before the beginning of the Seventieth Week of Daniel on the Feast of Weeks in 2001. In Revelation, the Rapture takes place in 4:1. The group Raptured are seen in Heaven in 5:9, "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." The Tribulation does not begin until 6:1.
I Thess. 4:16-18 says, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore COMFORT ONE ANOTHER WITH THESE WORDS." This day is not far off.
If you are secure in your faith in Christ, rooted and grounded in Him, you can pray and ask for help in knowing whether these things are true or not, and he will answer your prayer. James 1:5-7 says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord."
Father, please open the eyes of his understanding. Help him not only to understand in his own heart and mind, help him to share it effectively with his friend and comfort her. I ask in Jesus' name, Amen.
His reply Thanks for your prayers and stuff. I have had others pray too and this helps. Hey, I am not referring to a change of view of the Pre-Trib Rapture thing. The 40 year generation I could see as being more like 50 years, but I won't get into that again. I am just saying that in the next year or two (since the Rapture could be in 2000 or the beginning of 2001 according to your estimates) that there will be increasing persecution of the TRUE church worldwide. For we shall be fighting largely against the FALSE church; the Pope's efforts with the World Council of Churches for the United European government; for I feel that Antichrist WILL reveal Himself with increasing clarity as this year goes on. I still am believing that a MILITARY leader such as indicated in Daniel will be the Antichrist; and the FALSE PROPHET would be the Pope.
In Him; and much gratitude beyond which my own words can offer for your prayers
My reply Here is something else that points to a final 40-year period that you might like to take into consideration. Like Jesus, Isaac was also born on Tishri 1. He was married at 40. Jesus was 33 1/2 when crucified in Nisan. Then the clock stopped for Israel until the Tribulation. Thus the Marriage of the Lamb on Tishri 1 is perfect. 33 1/2 yrs. + 7 yr. Tribulation - 1/2 yr. (Tishri back to Nisan) = 40 yrs.
> I still am believing that a MILITARY leader such as indicated in Daniel
> will be the Antichrist; and the FALSE PROPHET would be the Pope.
The two beasts of Rev. 13 are called "the beast" and "the false prophet" in Rev. 19:20. I think the Beast (first beast of Rev. 13) will be the Tribulation Pope and the False Prophet (2nd beast of Rev. 13) will be an Israeli leader. He comes up out of the land, Rev. 13:11. The first comes up out of the sea, which indicates nations, Rev. 17:15.
Zech. 11:15-17 speaks of the foolish idol sheperd. He will be raised up "in the land."
Isa. 9:15 says, "The ancient and honourable, he is the head (6th of the "scarlet coloured beast," Rev. 17:3); and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail." The False Prophet is both the 7th head and the tail, for he is Satan possessed.
Rev. 17:11 says, "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."
AT THE TIME OF THE RAPTURE
Five kings are fallen
(1) Babylon I--Tower of Babel begun--Nimrod
(2) Babylon II--Nebuchadnezzar
(4) Greece--Alexander the Great
(5) Roman Empire--Caesars
One king is:
(6) Ecclesiastic Rome--The Pope
One king is yet to come:
(7) Babylon III--Tower of Babel finished--False Prophet
At the beginning of the Tribulation, I believe the Tribulation Pope will be elected Secretary General of the United Nations. When he receives that "crown," he will become the Beast of Revelation 13:4-10. Then ten sub-regents will be chosen to help him rule the world.
As Revelation 13 begins, we are viewing this beast at the beginning of the Tribulation, when the sixth world empire elects the Tribulation Pope Secretary General of the united nations and the ten kings receive their crowns. At this time, the chart changes slightly.
AT THE BEGINNING OF THE TRIBULATION
Five kings are fallen
(1) Babylon I--Tower of Babel begun--Nimrod
(2) Babylon II--Nebuchadnezzar
(4) Greece --Alexander the Great
(5) Roman Empire--Caesars
One king is:
(6) United Nations--The Roman Beast (Pope)--ten sub-regents
One king is yet to come:
(7) Babylon III--Tower of Babel finished--False Prophet
Incoming Email I was was just checking in this morning to see any late-breaking posts (you are so much better than the newspaper!) and I got to thinking - does anyone plan to begin a fast leading up to Pentecost? Perhaps a fast the last 7 days or the 10 days between Ascension and Pentecost? This is an area that you don't see much about. In fact, I was never taught anything about fasting, ecept what I learned on a tape by Perry Stone. I do not know if I even have the discipline or the perserverance to hold a fast. And I undertand there are many different kinds - no food or water, no food, just water, etc. I just wondered if anyone may be interested in doing this together just before May 21...maybe just a three-day fast? Anyway, it's just a thought. I wondered what you think about it...or what others think. Take care, dear sister. It's getting CLOSE!!!!
My reply Thanks for such a kind remark.
I don't know of anyone planning a fast. I get low blood-sugar and so does Ed. I would dissolve in tears and he would go into a coma. I don't plan anything like that. Eating on time is for us a medical necessity.
>>Re: 40 days. Jesus ascended on the 40th day. Ascension Day was ten days before Pentecost. It falls on Tues., May 11, Iyar 25, 1999. Strange. May 11, 1949 is the day that Israel was accepted into the UN. May 11, 1949 + 50 = May 11, 1999. Do the ten days between Ascension Day and Pentecost tie in with the ten days of tribulation in Rev. 2:10? It is in the message to Smyrna, which is from myrrh, an herb that has to be bruised to bring forth its sweetness.>>
ok, i read revelation chapter 2 verse 8 to 10. i think God was saying the rapture is so near that 10 days before the big event, the church of smyrna will be chastised thru persecution or like verse 10 say, the devil shall cast some of you into a pit for 10 days. 10 days leading up to the rapture. the purpose is for chastisement. since like you say smyrna is from myrrh, a herb that has to be bruised to bring forth its sweetness. the bruising represent the process of chastisement of being thrown into a pit. the sweetness represent the outcome of being even more holy and greater trust in the lord cause if you are thrown into a pit, the only choice you have is to trust in the Lord. i think rev. chapter 2 verse 8-10 is saying there are gonna be persecution 10 days leading up to the rapture. and that to be patience and fear not cause you only have 10 days until the rapture. the verse mention the blasphemy of those who call themselves jews but are actually the synagogue of satan. therefor, does the whole point of rev. 2:8-10 was in reference to israel and to conincide with isreael's 50th anniversary of her being accepted into the UN? i think the blasphemy of those who call themselves jews but are synagogue of satan are the secular jews. on and one last thing, rev 2:11 say those who overcome shall not be hurt by the 2nd death.
speaking of death, is the 2nd death a physical death or an eventual spiritual death? if it is a physical death, then all the assumption that death is a doorway to eternity would be wrong, particularly for those who were not found in the lamb's book of life. but if it's a spiritual death, the only way to reach spiritual death in a literal sense would be dark solitary confinement. it won't take too long until you reach that point being under the circumstances.
My reply > is the 2nd death a physical death or an eventual spiritual death?
I think the first death is physical, the second death of the soul, where resides our will and feelings like love.
Pro and Con 294 Or Return
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