Pro and Con 307
Uploaded 4-20-99, PM
Incoming Email Great revisions to the site! Keep up the good work.
I have one question. You mention the Church of Philadelphia and the Church of Laodecia as being the two "types" of the 10 virgins, and I tend to agree... but what of the other churches?
From what I can gather from the passage, 4 of the remaining 5 churches also face harsh judgement (like Laodecia) from the Lord, but there is one that does not. That Church is Smyrna. Here's the passage:
8 "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this: 9 'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.' (NAS)
They receive persecution from the devil, but no judgement from God like the others. What is your take on this, and where does the Church of Smyrna fit, since they are obviously loved by the Lord and will be rewarded for their faithfulness, but they differ from Philadelphia. Thanks for your insight. In His Grace
My reply Thanks. Glad you like the revision. (See the addition in color at the top of the Home Page today.)
Since you asked about Smyrna, I'll briefly run through them all. Remember that I am not a prophet. These are my own conclusions. The seven messages to the churches in Rev. 2 and 3 reflect past history, but are at the same time an accurate appraisal of the state of the church groups when the Rapture is at hand.
I'll not go into the past much. That seems to be generally understood. Ephesus was the Apostolic church, but also represents any new church of our days. Smyrna was the period of the martyrs, but represents martyrs of today. Pergamos started the rise of the Papacy, but continues to the present. Thyatira is the Papacy in full sway. Sardis is the Reformation. Philadelphia is a wonderful period of brotherly love and missionary action. Laodicean is the lukewarm period. It is hard to tell by her actions if she is of the church or of the world. Certain characteristics of each group continue to the present time.
As Jesus is seen in the Preview of the Rapture in chapter one, so is he seen by the seven churches. To Ephesus, he is "he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks," and so on down the line. To Philadelphia, he is "he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth." The door opens to the Philadelphians in Rev. 3:8 and is closed to the Laodiceans in 3:20. There seems to be a time lock on that door. After the Philadelphians are told "Come up hither" (Rev. 4:1), the door snaps shut in the face of the Laodiceans.
This is seen also in the parable of the ten virgins. Those "that were ready went in with him to the marriage; and the door was shut." After the door shuts, the foolish virgins say, "Lord, Lord, open to us." But he says, "Verily I say unto you, I know you not" (Mt. 25:10-12). They do not have an intimate relationship with the Lord. They believe, but live like the world. They are figuratively in the stomach of the Body of Christ, unassimilated, not working parts of the Body, and can be spewed out for chastisement that will cause them to wash their robes in the blood of Christ and be ready the second time.
Ephesus (which means desired, aimed at, let go, relax) is not showing love. These are told to repent, "or else." Jesus says, "or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." That would mean that the ones that do not repent will get left behind. Their candlestick would get taken out of the heavenly group around Jesus in the Preview and left here on Earth with the Laodiceans.
Jesus says, "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes (from nicao, to conquer, and laos, the people or laity), which I also hate." This is the domineering of clergy over people. It destroys the equality of the brethren and undermines the priesthood of the believer.
In Mt. 23:8-12, Jesus said, "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and ALL YE ARE BRETHREN. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased: and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."
Each of the seven messages in Rev. 2 and 3 ends with words almost identical to 2:7: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches" (plural).
Smyrna is the church under persecution. Smyrna is from myrrh and means bitterness or embalming spice. That sounds like during the Tribulation. Those days will echo the ten persecutions that began under Domitian (96 AD) and ended with the most severe under Diocletian (303 - 313 AD). To "some" of the Smyrnans, the "ye shall have tribulation ten days" may refer to ten years of testing, starting in 5758 (1997/98) and ending in 5768 (2007/08). Our testing seems to have started in earnest in 1998. Our actions during the first year of testing may determine whether we stay here for the ten years of testing or move into the Philadelphian group and get taken to Heaven before the seven bad years begin.
I think the seven good years and seven bad years began to be counted Sept. 13, 1993, when the Oslo Accords were signed. Sept. 13, 1993 + 7 good years = Sept. 13, 2000 + 7 bad years = Sept. 13, 2007. This will be Tishri 1, 5768. I think it is the first day of the Millennium, the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the Day of God's Wrath, etc.
We see the martyrs of Smyrna in Rev. 6:9-11, right up to the time the sixth seal is broken and the second Rapture takes place. This passage says, "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? (the Judgment Seat of Christ is when the seventh seal is broken) And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
The church at Pergamos (height, elevation, thoroughly married), "where Satan dwelleth," is told to repent, "or else." To those that are married to the world and finally bequeathed to Rome, as Pergamos literally was, Jesus says, "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth." It sounds like the unrepentent will be cut off and join the Laodiceans here on Earth during the Tribulation. However, the overcomers seem to get Raptured along with the Philadelphians.
Thyatira (dominating female or continual sacrifice) is told, "I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel (meaning Baal is the prince, or woe to the dunghill, it may be the apparition called "our lady."), which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication (joining), and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication (joining together, forming the harlot world church); and she repented not." Jesus says that he will cast "them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death." This group is going to end up in the Tribulation. The "space" may narrow down to the time between the Rapture and the Tribulation. If the Rapture doesn't wake them up, their outlook is bleak.
There is a segment in this dominate church that have "not known the depths of Satan, as they speak." Jesus tells them to "hold fast till I come."
The NIV says, "Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come."
These "so-called deep secrets" of Satan may be the secrets taught the initiates of the Secret Society of the Mystery Religion of Babylon. Initiates are taken one level at a time into worshiping Baal (Satan) as the almighty god. Along the way, initiates do not know where they will end up. They are not told the end from the beginning. It is a mystery, and each step ahead is a mystery until they are deemed ready to progress deeper into the next teaching level. In the first stages, they think they are worshiping the Almighty, but they are slowly and subtly being led astray, teaching and being taught, deceiving and being deceived, being brainwashed without realizing the mortal danger they are in or where it all ends. Along the way, the steps sound reasonable, but are deceptive. Satan is the crafty mastermind guiding the teaching.
Of Thyatira, some will join the Laodiceans on Earth during the Tribulation. Others will join the Philadelphians at the Rapture and be given the "morning star."
There are also two groups of Sardis (those escaping). They are warned, "Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."
Those of Sardis "which have not defiled their garments" shall walk with Christ "in white: for they are worthy." They are accounted worthy to escape the Tribulation along with the Philadelphians. Those that have defiled their garments must repent or they too will join the Laodiceans on Earth during the Tribulation.
The Philadelphians (meaning brotherly love) show brotherly love. No words of condemnation or command to repent is given them. They have already taken care of anything they needed to confess. Before them is set the open door (Rev. 3:8). JOINING THEM WILL BE THOSE WHO REPENT FROM THE OTHER GROUPS. This is the group to which all the Spirit-filled Christians will be drawn as the Rapture takes place and they are caught up through Heaven's open door.
I didn't mean to capitalize the above. It just happened. Neither the shift key nor caps lock key was down.
All those from all groups who do not repent will be added to the Laodiceans (people of judgment) who will stay on Earth until the second Rapture. It will take place between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals.
It seems as if the living who repent out of all groups are poured into the Philadelphian group as they go through the open door. Likewise, it seems as if all those living who do not repent are poured into the Laodicean group who are spewed out of Christ's mouth at the moment of the Rapture. The Philadelphians are the wise virgins with enough oil of the Holy Spirit. The Laodiceans are the foolish virgins without enough oil to be caught up until they wash their garments in the blood of Christ during the Tribulation. It is as if the Philadelphians pull all the other overcomers up with them, but of course, it is the Holy Spirit that hooks all these overcomers together and who is actually doing the pulling.
Incoming Email I thoroughly enjoy your web site and, like you, came to my own conclusions that Jesus would return for His bride on May 22, 1999, even before I discovered your site. Many of your articles really make sense, however, I have a few disagreements with them.
I think that we have to be very discening in this day and age. The Lord has helped within the past year to really discover His Word and how He meant for it to be said in the English language via the King James Bible. Since that time, my spirit and zeal for His Word has been magnified to the utmost degree.
You probably know all about the Textus Receptus verses what I call the modern day "PERversions". I won't bore you with those details. Please understand that even though you've had over 36 years of study in the Scriptures, that cannot possibly be attested to correcting the KJB, which was written by over FORTY-FIVE of the most God fearing, intelligent men in history!
These last days we're living in are of the most polluted, corrupt and deceptive times. The modern day textural critic thinks he/she is wise in their own eyes by interpreting Scripture the way that it fits for them. It's kind of like a Burger King- Have it your way- philosophy. I don't think this pleases God. We should be VERY cautious of trying to correct the "italics" in the KJB. I truly believe that EVERY word, including the italics, in the King James makes up the complete Word of God. You may think that to be too simplistic, but that's where I stand.
The word "places" is not in the original. This is why it is in italics in the King James Version. The word was supplied by the translators, who did not understand the full significance of the passage. This scripture is talking about the secret of the stairs.
I beg to differ! The KJ translators understood exactly how to translate that verse...
Ps 18:11* He made darkness his SECRET PLACE; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. Ps 81:7* Thou calledst in trouble, and I delivered thee; I answered thee in the SECRET PLACE of thunder: I proved thee at the waters of Meribah. Selah.
Ps 91:1 He that dwelleth in the SECRET PLACE of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Eze 7:22 My face will I turn also from them, and they shall pollute my SECRET PLACE: for the robbers shall enter into it, and defile it.
Lu 11:33* No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a SECRET PLACE, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.
Job 20:26 All darkness shall be hid in his SECRET PLACES: a fire not blown shall consume him; it shall go ill with him that is left in his tabernacle.
Ps 10:8 He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the SECRET PLACES doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor....
I am not an English major but, it takes little to realize that if the word PLACES was to be ommitted in SS 2:14, the sentence structure would fall apart. Clefts of rocks and secret places of stairs both speak of a certain physical place. If you read Scripture, you'll find God "doubling" His Word to make certain points.
Once one understands that every WORD in the KJ in inspired, one can then makes more accurate assessments. (So we can't boast).
A more accurate interpretation of SS 2 is that in verses 1 through 13, Jesus is truly speaking to His Bride. The Bride is the rose of Sharon and the LILY of the valleys. The Bride is being compared to a FLOWER or a planted thing(apple tree) or think "WHEAT". At verse 14 and 15, however, Jesus is addressing what you call the Laodeceans or the foolish virgins. He calls them His dove. Them who have missed the initial Rapture have taken to hiding in clefts of rocks and secret places of stairs for "...fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth." ISA 2:21.
In verse 15, He speaks of "tender grapes". This is signifying the "little sister" spoken of in So 8:8 We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts: what shall we do for our sister in the day when she shall be spoken for?
Then verses 16 and 17 are again the voice of the Bride.
Jer 49:16 Thy terribleness hath deceived thee, and the pride of thine heart, O thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, that holdest the height of the hill: though thou shouldest make thy nest as high as the eagle, I will bring thee down from thence, saith the LORD.
Ob 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?
The Pre-Wrath Rapture
REV 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16: And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
From these verses, it is quite clear that EVERY person left behind, Christian or not, will be hiding in clefts of rocks and sectret places under stairs. Then, in Chapter 7 verse 14, it speaks of those who have been given white robes and have come out of great tribulation.(Laodeceans). God is SO merciful.
The Jacob's ladder theory, to me, just doesn't fit. But that's what happens when you start fiddlin' with Scripture. in Christ Jesus
My reply No two would agree on all points. The Bible is too complex. But it is not correct to base an interpretation on your statement "I truly believe that EVERY word, including the italics, in the King James makes up the complete Word of God."
Only the original MSS were without error. Any translation can have errors.
> > This scripture is talking about the secret of the stairs.
> I beg to differ! The KJ translators understood exactly how to translate that verse
Maybe so, but the 47 men who translated the KJV between 1604 and 1611 did not translate everything correctly. Some important MSS have been found since they made their translation too. One particular place where they made a mistake is "day of Christ" in II Thess. 2:2. The Sinaitic (found in 1844 and 1859), Vatican and Alexandrine MSS have day of the Lord. Compare with Isa. 2:12.
The same Hebrew word you say should be "secret places" is used in Ju. 3:19. The KJV says, "I have a secret errand unto thee." Did the KJV translators make a mistake? Should they have stuck in "places," and made it say that I have a secret places errand unto thee?
This word is used in Psa. 31:20. The KJV says "Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy presence from the pride of man: thou shalt keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues." Psa. 21:14 uses this word. The KJV says, "A gift in secret pacifieth anger." Isa. 45:19 uses this word too. The KJV says, "I have not spoken in secret, in the dark place of the earth." Did the KJV translators make a mistake on these? or is it ok to translate this word as "secret" when the sense of the sentence requires it?
Why does Strong's Concordance show that it can mean "secret (-ly, place)"? Why does Gesenius' Lexicon say "(1) a hiding; hence something secret, clandestine, hidden"?
Re: Song of Solomon 2:
> At verse 14 and 15, however, Jesus is addressing what you call the Laodeceans or the
> foolish virgins. He calls them His dove. Them who have missed the initial Rapture have
> taken to hiding in clefts of rocks and secret places of stairs for "...fear of the LORD,
> and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth." ISA 2:21.
Song of Sol. 2:14 has nothing to do with the time when "he ariseth to shake terribly the earth." Song 2:10,13,14 says, "My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away (i.e., the Rapture)...Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away (the Rapture). O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock (i.e., in Christ, our Rock), in the secret places of the stairs (like Jacob's ladder, whose top reached Heaven), let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely."
NOTHING there suggests those he left behind. Rather, he wants to see their face and hear their voice. They are WITH him, not left behind on Earth.
> I am not an English major but, it takes little to realize that if the word PLACES was
> to be ommitted in SS 2:14, the sentence structure would fall apart.
Oh? :-) Is the following not a complete sentence? What does it lack? a subject? a verb? an object of the verb?
It says, O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.
Compare these two phrases. Tell me what is right with the grammar of the first and wrong with the second.
(1) in the clefts of the rock
(2) in the secret of the stairs
Incoming Email FWD: Subject: What is Mystery Babylon? From: Barolo82@aol.com: To: firstname.lastname@example.org
You answered your own question about Mystery Babylon's identity. It is Israel under the law. Before Messiah came, Israel and Judah were called whores by God because they worshipped other Gods. The same is true today - any false religion is Mystery, Babylon.
On a higher level of understanding, the old covenant, or "law" is Mystery, Babylon. It was a mystery to the Jews because they could not see how it typified the Messiah to come - Hebrews 10:1 says "For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things..."
The Jews could not understand how Christ was shown in all the shadows of the law, thus it was a Mystery. And it caused them to trust in their own works to get saved, rather than the grace of God - thus they were religious "whores".
The same is true today. True religion is one in which we trust in the grace of God throught the blood of the Messiah to save us - any other way to Heaven is a false religion, and thus a "whore". Paul also mentioned the "mystery" several times: "Christ in you, the hope of glory".
Anyone who does not have Christ in them ( and Christ is truth ) is Mystery, Babylon - the Scripture to them is a mystery, they see only the shadows of truth, and not the very image of the truth. They see the "letter" of the Word that "kills" rather than the "Spirit that gives life", see 2 Corinthians 3:6.
Here is how Jesus defined salvation in Mark 4:11
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is GIVEN TO KNOW THE MYSTERY of the kingdom of God, but unto them that are WITHOUT (unsaved), all these things are done in parables (shadows) 12 That SEEING THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND HEARING THEY MAY HEAR , AND NOT UNDERSTAND; LEST AT ANY TIME THEY SHOULD BE CONVERTED, AND THEIR SINS SHOULD BE FORGIVEN THEM.
Please note that Jesus says that when we are converted and our sins forgiven, then it has been given unto us to KNOW THE MYSTERY of the kingdom of God. That is when Mystery, Babylon is destroyed within us - when we become saved. When we come out from under the law and into the new covenant of grace, the Scriptures are no longer MYSTERY, BABYLON to us.
Best of luck as you seek the light of the world.
My reply Upon the forehead of the harlot church is "a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev. 17:5).
This is the Mystery Religion of Babylon started at the Tower of Babel by Nimrod and Semiramis. It involved a Satanic counterfeit religion to confuse mankind. Semiramis and their son, Tammuz, were worshipped as Madonna and Child. Both father and son were worshipped as the sun god. Tammuz was supposed to have been killed by a wild boar and resurrected. Tammuz' birthday was celebrated with evergreen trees on Dec. 25th. Easter was celebrated with eggs.
When the Bride of Christ is caught up to Heaven, the suppressed pagan part of the World Church will surface. The Tower of Babel will be rebuilt and destroyed. This time, it will never be rebuilt.
Babylon is literal Babylon on the Euphrates River. The World Church is to be moved and "set there (in the land of Shinar) upon her own base" (Zech 5:11).
The Lord says, "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).
I've been reading your site with great interest for several weeks now, and have been quite challenged by it. I have spent more time in the Word since coming to your site than I have in recent months, and although I don't agree with everything you say, I believe you to be a godly woman and a truthseeker. I really hope the Rapture does happen when you say, the time certainly seems ripe for it! I have heard a bit of news, that a new leader has emerged as the President of Europe, a man named Romano Prodi. I know that several of your readers have the software for Bible Code searches, and I am wondering if anyone has checked this man's name. It is apparent to me that if we are indeed living in the last days (literally!), that the Antichrist, False Prophet, and the Beast will no doubt be making their world debuts, or at least be waiting in the wings for their grand performance. In light of that, it seems possible that this former prime minister of Italy could be one of the main players, and the Bible Code could shed some light on him. Please keep up the good work, and know that many people are reading and praying for you and with you!
I think the Beast will be a Pope. They "worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?...And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb" (Rev. 13:4,8). The Lord indicated that this man is the one "that sweareth falsely by my name" (Zech. 5:4).
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