Pro and Con 312

Uploaded 5-1-99, PM

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I thought your response in P/C 311 was well thought out, well researched, and well presented in a very concise form with a proper mix of history and scripture.

I know I've said it before, and many others have said it far better than I could hope to, but you have been such a blessing to so many of us that I can scarsely comprehend going more than a day or two without seeing what has been posted on your site.

My reply


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Marilyn, here is an article on Pentecost that I thought you might enjoy. I have some introductory comments. It now appears to me that Pentecost is the most likely time for the Rapture. I too, am hoping for 1999. If it does not occur I will have some things to share about Pentecost 2000. However, at this time I am hoping for this year. Best wishes.

I recently did a search of articles on Pentecost. The following article by Gary Stearman is about the best one I've seen. It was written in May of 1996. I believe that Pentecost has a good possibility of being the date of the Rapture. It is the Feast of the Harvest of Firstfruits. The church is the firstfruits. The Feast of Firstfruits on which Jesus ascended to heaven STARTED the counting of the OMER. IN fact, the word used of "sheaf" is the same word for "omer". Is it possible--probable, that since the waving up of the SHEAF (JESUS) on the Feast of Firstfruits pictures His ascension, then the waving UP OF THE TWO LOAVES(THE CHURCH) PICTURES THE ASCENSION OF THE COMPLETED BODY OF CHRIST? Further, does the fact that TWO LOAVES are waved indicate two raptures ? The counting of the omer seems to signify the time until the body of Christ is COMPLETED , since in this analogy Jesus is the FIRST OMER --I.E. THE FIRSTFRUITS. The COUNTING of the omer then would seem to be the time period mentioned in Romans 11:25 "until the full NUMBER(fulness) of the Gentiles be come in."Let's remember that the "full number" of the Gentiles will not be harvested until the pre-wrath rapture of the saints of Rev. ch. 7. Perhaps one loaf pictures the Pre-tribulation rapture and the other the pre-wrath rapture. Also, in Romans 15:16 Paul decribes himself as " That I should be the minister (priest) of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the OFFERING UP(as in the offering up of the two loaves of bread on Pentecost by the priest, mentioned in Lev. 23) of the GENTILES might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost."...

My reply

I am so glad to hear from you. I had already read this article, and agree that it is a good one. Thanks for sending it and refreshing my mind on this.

> Is it possible--probable, that since the waving up o the SHEAF (JESUS) on the Feast of
> Firstfruits pictures His ascension, then the waving UP OF THE TWO LOAVES(THE CHURCH)

Yes. I think you are right, although it may turn out to be the completed Bride of Christ rather than the completed Body of Christ.

> Further, does the fact that TWO LOAVES are waved indicate two raptures?

Since I think the second Rapture is on the Feast of Trumpets, this seems to me to suggest two fulfillments for Pentecost, one for the Jews and the other for the Gentiles. Pentecost was fulfilled in 30 AD for the Jews that are part of the church. I'm sure hoping, as you are, that this will be the year that Pentecost will be fulfilled for the Gentiles that are part of the church. The first would be the birth of the church on Earth. The second would be the birth of the church into another new world, Heaven. See what you think.

My comments on the article: Speaking of Pentecost, it says,
> This was the time, they say, when Jews gathered around the base of Mount
> Sinai heard the actual voice of God.

That fits the Rapture so well. We will hear the Lord's voice as of a trumpet. Not only did they hear the voice at Sinai (a type of Sani, Heaven), but it was the first mention of the trumpet sounding in the Bible.

> Let us review the part Pentecost has played at the beginning of two dispensations - Law
> and Grace. The rabbis say that the Dispensation of Law began on Pentecost.

That is rich. The Dispensation of the Law began on Pentecost, and the Dispensation of Grace began on Pentecost. If the Dispensation of the Law ended on Pentecost, why wouldn't the normal end of the Dispensation of Grace end on Pentecost? Agape

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I noticed that after the passing of last year's Pentecost, when the rapture didn't happen, you suggested that the orthodox Pentecost was a more likely date. If I'm not mistaken, you have now gone back to the more traditional western Pentecost date as a presumed time for the rapture in 1999. I don't disagree, but could you explain why this is? It is very likely that you addressed this somewhere in your writings and I missed this as there is so much to absorb.

My reply

I got hold of what Josephus said. It straightened out my thinking and pointed to Sivan 7 as the real Pentecost. He said, "The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month...But on the second day of unleavened bread, which is the sixteenth day of the month, they first partake of the fruits of the earth, for before that day they do not touch them...When a week of weeks has passed over AFTER this sacrifice (which weeks contain forty and nine days,) on the fiftieth day, which is Pentecost..." (Ant. III.X.5,6).

On that same day, Ed and I were in the end of the most gorgeous double rainbow you could ever imagine. The colors were splashing down from way up and all over the cars on the street ahead of us. In my wildest imagination, I would never have thought actually being in the right end of the inner color band of a double rainbow would even be possible. Yet, it happened, and we will never forget it.

I felt so elated that I finally got Pentecost straight in my head, then saw the confirmation of God's covenant with us that same day. I should have paid more attention to it at the time. However, after waffling around a bit more, I finally came to realize that Sivan 7 (Jerusalem time) was really the most likely date for the Rapture.

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Hebraic Heritage Newsgroup:
The Palestinian Legislative Council essentially decided yesterday to delay the date of the Palestinian state's formal declaration, probably until after a visit to Israel by the Pope next year....
It's now official: The PLO Central Committee decided this morning to postpone for at least two months its decision on whether to declare a Palestinian state. Senior Palestinian sources in Gaza admit that Arafat has not seriously entertained the idea of declaring a state for several months now, as the halting of the Wye withdrawals left him with too little territory for a viable state....The EU has issued a statement that it recognizes the Palestinians' right to self-determination and has asked Arafat to delay the declaration of statehood for a year.
Channel 1 reported that the Palestinians have suggested the end of 2000 and demanded an end to settlement activity. Erekat told reporters that he believes Israel has asked the US to allow for an open-ended extension of the interim period."... " Jerusalem Post - Internet Edition, Tuesday, April 27, 1999, 11 Iyar 5759
US calls for peace deal within a year
JERUSALEM (April 27) - The United States, seeking to persuade the Palestinians not to declare a state, yesterday urged Israel and the Palestinian Authority to set themselves a new target of agreeing on a permanent settlement within a year."

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FAX of Mar. 25, 1999: In Pro and Con 288...the picture you gave of David also coincides with Genesis 8 and the Ark. The window opens, the raven (Jesus) goes out, then later, the dove (Holy Spirit)...doesn't say exactly when...May be 50 days?

It still seems that when the ark rests on Ararat, 7th month, 17th day is a picture of the rapture...and the "GO FORTH" is a picture of the 2nd Advent and going forth on the refreshed earth in the millennium. See what you think when aligning with Genesis 8. Thanks again for all your work....

(1) Gen. 8:1 and Matthew 24:31 = God remembered Noah...made the wind to pass over the earth and "shall gather his elect from the four winds. 7th month, 17day - Ark rested (Rapture)

(2) Mark 13:27 and Genesis 8:16 - "from uttermost parts of earth and heaven"...and..."go forth" - on the refreshed earth (after the second advent)....

(3) Acts 27:31 - "abide in the ship" - Ark = Jesus
We should not be "castaways" from the Ark - before it rests on the 7th mo. 17th day = April 3, 1999 (Beginning of the 6001st year). Our seven day warning should come this Saturday, March 27th. Thanks for considering.

PS: Mary went to the tomb on Sunday morning - it was empty.

My reply

Sorry, I have taken so long to answer. I have more to do than I can get done.

> the raven (Jesus) goes out

The raven is black, not a color associated with Jesus. The raven "went TO AND FRO, until the waters were dried up from off the earth" (Gen. 8:7). Consider Job 1:6,7: "Now there was a day when the sons of God (angels, each one created, as Adam was, not reproduced) came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From GOING TO AND FRO in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

Some time during our year of purification (Esth. 2:12), it looks like the "raven" is going to go to and fro to test us. Then the dove (Spirit of Christ) checks to see if the waters are abated (and if Israel is bearing fruit, Lu. 13:6-9). When the rain is over and gone (Song of Sol. 2:11) and the waters abated, the Holy Spirit will bring peace (symbolized by olive leaves) to those in the Ark.

> It still seems that when the ark rests on Ararat, 7th month, 17th day is a picture
> of the rapture...and the "GO FORTH" is a picture of the 2nd Advent

To me, the "Go forth" now seems to apply to the Rapture after about one solar year of testing to see if we will stay in the Ark, not the Second Coming. The waters were not yet all abated when the Ark rested on Ararat, so I can't see that being the time of the Rapture.

During the time in the Ark, the dove (Spirit of Christ) is with us, and so is the raven. But, there comes a time when the raven is glad to leave us to go see what else he can do, but the Spirit of Christ comes back to us.

Of course, there were actually seven doves (Gen. 7:2,3), so the Holy Spirit is still with us all the time. When the seven doves come out of the Ark to fly to the heavens, the Holy Spirit will take us to Heaven. This is at the time of the voice of God telling Noah, "Go forth." At that time, the raven leaving the Ark will get with the raven that left and "evil" will multiply.

> Matthew 24:31 = God remembered Noah...made the wind to pass over the
> earth and "shall gather his elect from the four winds.

Mt. 24:31 is on the 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation. Mark 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth (Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of heaven" (those who went to Heaven in the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

> Mary went to the tomb on Sunday morning - it was empty.

Good point. If we are taken out of here on Saturday, May 22, 1999, tombs of the saints will also be figuratively empty on Sunday morning. They will have gotten their resurrection bodies ahead of us. Then we will "be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air" (I Thess. 4:17).

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thank you for taking the time to read my email. Still enjoying your website tremendously, and eagerly awaiting the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. I have a quick question. I read your article about the catastrophe before Adam's creation, where you talk about Lucifer rebelling against God, God destroying the planet Rahab (now the asteroid belt), the earth being thrown into chaos and the pre-adamic civilization destroyed, and then God bringing order to the chaos and creating the world that we now see. The question I have is this: Doesn't Ezekiel 28:12-19 say that Lucifer was in the garden of Eden before iniquity was found in him? If this is an accurate interpretation, this would put the fall of Lucifer into sin and his subsequent rebellion against God after Adam, the Garden of Eden, etc... was created. The verse seems to say that Lucifer was "the seal of perfection, full of wisdom, perfect in beauty, Eden, the garden of God", and THEN iniquity was found in him. What do think?

My reply

> Doesn't Ezekiel 28:12-19 say that Lucifer was in the garden of Eden
> before iniquity was found in him?

Before getting into Ezekiel, think about Gen. 3:4: "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die." Who is the serpent? Rev. 12:9 says, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world." He was not called an angel, or a son of God, he was already the serpent, and he told a lie. He was already a deceiver of the whole world. John 8:44 says, "He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

In Ezek. 28:13f, watch for past tense, present tense and future tense. I think you will understand it this way. It says, "Thou hast been (past tense) in Eden the garden of God (both the earthly one and the heavenly one that has no lions, Isa. 35:9); every precious stone (original planet in the Sun's family) was (past tense) thy covering (surroundings), the (1) sardius (Mercury), (2) topaz (Venus), and the (3) diamond (Earth), the (4) beryl (Mars), the (5) onyx (Rahab), and the (6) jasper (Jupiter), the (7) sapphire (which means dear to Saturn, i.e., Saturn is Heaven, Ezek. 1:26), the (8) emerald (Uranus), and the (9) carbuncle (Neptune), and (10) gold (Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in the day that thou wast (past tense) created. Thou art (present tense) the anointed cherub (Gen. 3:24) that covereth (guards); and I have (past tense) set thee so: thou wast (past tense) upon the holy mountain of God (Saturn); thou hast (past tense) walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (on Rahab). Thou wast (past tense) perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast (past tense) created, till iniquity was (past tense) found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled (past tense) the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast (past tense) sinned: therefore I will (future tense) cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God (Saturn, in Mid-Trib): and I will (future tense) destroy thee, O covering (guarding) cherub, from the midst (Rahab) of the stones of fire (planets). Thine heart was (past tense) lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast (past tense) corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will (future tense) cast thee to the ground, I will (future tense) lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast (past tense) defiled thy sanctuaries (on Rahab and on Earth) by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will (future tense) I bring forth a fire (i.e., a flaming asteroid) from the midst of thee (i.e., from Rahab), it shall (future tense) devour thee, and I will (future tense) bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."

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I read today, on America OnLine news, that scientists have cloned three female goats. Man has now broken into God's code, and used this knowledge to "replicate" sheep and goats. I find it ironic, and another evidence of man's twistedness. In his mind, he thinks himself to be wise, and becoming a master of his fate; all the while blind to his true state, and soon approaching judgment.... part of which will be a separating of sheep and goats. Hoping you are well, and getting enough rest. In His Love

My reply

Thanks. I had not yet heard of the cloning of goats.

I am aching in wierd places and have bandages on both hands, both knees and on my hip, also ice on my back for the occasional sharp pains that make me draw in my breath. I took a hard fall yesterday rushing to get in the PO before it closed. I didn't. Had to go today. I tripped over a low cement barrier to keep cars off the sidewalk. Didn't see it. I landed so hard on my hand with my wrist bent back hard, I'm certain the Lord protected my right wrist so I could keep on typing. I was afraid I had broken it. At first, I couldn't get up, but someone helped me and as I began to walk, I knew I was ok, no broken bones. Thank you Lord. I went to bed early last night, couldn't do much until today.

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Daniel 9:27 Coveant 1
Do you believe the covenant mentioned above will be implimented after the rapture? Two covenants have been signed - one 9/93 with Rabin, and the other 10/98 - Wye River Memorandum with current PM. OF ISRAEL? It appears that the first covenant which is to be for seven years was never carried through and the final agreement is yet to come? Also, the new head of the EU. Romano Prodi is fulfillment of prophecy? We would appreciate your respone. May the lord continue to bless your ministry.

My reply

> Do you believe the covenant mentioned above will be implimented after the rapture?

Yes. I think it will be signed on the Feast of Weeks, Sivan 6, 5761, our May 28, 2001.

> new head of the EU. Romano Prodi is fulfillment of prophecy?

Not that I know of. I now think the World Government will be the fulfillment, not the EU. I also think the Tribulation Pope, head of the World Church, will also be elected head of the World Government. He will come in riding a white horse as a prince of peace. Under him will be 10 kings over the ten regions that the world has already been divided into by the One-World-Government clique.

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I wanted to share something interesting from last night as I told a couple friends of mine.

Anyway; I had an interesting sort of experience last night. I was resting and meditating on work; and the back door which is locked and barred. I felt the power of God and in my mind the door blasted open like with Peter or Paul in prison. I knew that it hadn't yet happened; and that this wasn't a dream either. I was awake and just felt the power of God overwhelm me. Maybe the Lord is coming real soon in the Rapture. He shall free you too; whether your prison is home or school or whatever. When that Day comes; you shall be free. We can just go to be with Jesus; and no more junk on this earth.

My reply

Thanks for sharing this with me.

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I have been reading a lot about the 6000th year ending... my confusion sets in when I try to think of when the 7000th year or (day) starts.. Is there another 999 years before the start of the 7000th year (day)... when the Lord establishes His peacful rein here on earth?

I know the parable of the 7 days of Gods creation.... and using the 1000 years is as a day, as a day is a 1000 years... so if God rested on the 7th day... or the 7000th year.. wouldn't we have another 999 years roughly before teh day of rest?

Can you set me straight...I am so confused.

My reply

I think the 6001st year since man began to be tested knowing both good and evil began last Tishri 1, 5769, our Sept. 21, 1998. This Jewish year should be the first of a new millennium. However, the Tribulation (plus a little time between the Rapture and the Tribulation) seems to be inserted between the 6th & 7th great days to test the whole world. Thus, I think that the millennial Day of the Lord (Day of Rest) will begin Tishri 1, 5768, our Sept. 13, 2007.

This is 14 years (7 good and 7 bad) after the Oslo Accords were signed on Sept. 13, 1993. I expect the Rapture in the 7 good years. I think the year 2000 is the last of the good years. If it is a good year, I'd sure hate to be around in a bad year. I hope the Rapture will be this upcoming Pentecost.

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Thank you for your reply concerning my question on the one week covenant of Daniel 9. I note in your book REVELATIONS 2000 that the "falling away" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 you do not take as apostasy but the literal rapture? I have not read this scripture as rapture but as apostasy of the church in today"s world but never-the-less I believe in Pre-tribulation rapture. I also note with great interest that the number of man which is (6) has meaning when it comes to New Testament prophetic words per there numerical value. One (6) Two (12) Three )(18) etc. This is confirmed by the I967 war that gave Israel Jerusalem and also 1948 Israel"s birth. etc. J.R. Church told me about the signifigance of the number 6. He also wrote a book about the Psalms and prophecy for the 20th Century. The very odd thing is that the church is sleeping today. No interest or very little interest in prophecy - even by pastors. Of course this was prophesied by Christ "as it was in the days of noah" etc. I believe we are very very close to the rapture as per Israel and their quest for PEACE and the re-alignment of Europe and parts of Asia minor into a revived ROMAN EMPIRE. Your reply is welcomed.

My reply

> "falling away" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 you do not take as apostasy but the literal rapture?

Yes. I believe that the man of sin cannot be revealed until the Rapture has taken place. We are the salt that retards the growth of leaven because of the Holy Spirit that dwells in us. The word translated "falling away" is "apostasia." It means departing as in "apostacion," divorcement. We could think of the Rapture as divorcement too. It seems that the Rapture is of the Bride of Christ (the wise Philadelphian virgins that go with the Bridegroom when he comes). This would mean that the foolish Laodicean virgins were divorced at that moment.

Lu. 12:45,46 says of the unfaithful and unwise steward that says "in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (dichotomeo, to bisect, i.e., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (the Tribulation) with the unbelievers." Mt. 24:51 adds, "cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

How do 1948 and 1967 tie in with the number 6?

> The very odd thing is that the church is sleeping today.

It is easy to see that there are lukewarm and blind Laodiceans about. That is an indication that we are living in the end times.

> a revived ROMAN EMPIRE

I think the endtime empire will be a world church and a world government, both headed up during the first 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation by a Roman.

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1999: more (Jim Bramlett)
Last night and again today I spoke with Robin and her husband Don, the neighbors of the little Texas autistic boy who last year said an angel came to him and said, "Hurry and go tell your mom that Jesus is coming in 1999." After he ran in and told them and when they hugged him, they both felt electricity go through their bodies and saw light beams in the room.

I asked if Scottie even knew what year it is, if 1999 means anything to him. They said no. That makes it an even greater marvel. Scottie was in their house when I called yesterday, so they are very close. Robin said she asked him the other day if he was ready to go to heaven, and he immediately said "yes."

With extremely unusual timing, Robin told me something that another lady had just told me before I hung up only moments earlier. They both said that J.R. Church is now saying the rapture may be this Pentecost, 1999. I believe they both heard it on his weekly television program. It is unusual and bold for a major prophecy teacher and ministry leader to stick his neck out in that way, so he must have strong reasons.

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Valerie Skrzyniak wrote:
Today is my Birthday, I am 52 years old and I believe that it is the lst year of my new life. 52-1, on 5-21 this year. Only time will tell. Got a miracle yesterday at a Spirit filled prayer group and meeting, they prayed for my painful arthritis which had consummed my whole body with constant pain and suffering. Jesus healed me and I am free of all pain. Praise the Lord! He gave me this present one day before my birthday. I believe in MIRACLES BECAUSE II BELEIVE IN GOD AND HIS POWER TO HEAL.

I trully believe that this is the year the Lord Jesus will come at the Rapture, to take his bride home. Yes, I truly believe that 1999 will be the 1st year of a new life for me as well as for those who are counted worthy in the Lord's Eyes to Escape.

Pray, watch and Look Up, Our Redemption draws nigh! In His Love

My reply

Happy birthday. I am so glad you are pain free. THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL FOR SURE. I hope this Pentecost is the Rapture too.

I didn't mean to put in those caps. It just happened. Agape

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