Pro and Con 331

Uploaded 5-27-99

Incoming Email

Here it is May 20, sister, and I just want you to know I have followed your site since before you had 12,000 hits. I have gained a wealth of bible knowledge from your site and your Procons.

Whether or not the Rapture occurs this year, I want you to know how much your work is appreciated. I have been a prison volunteer facilitating two in-prison weekly bible studies for the past four years and your views have played a huge role (even though the attendees may not always know it) in bringing understanding of God's Word to many young men.

I hope to see you There soon, but if we must tarry yet a little while, I plan to "occupy till he comes". His will be done!

Thank you, Marilyn, and may God bless you and all of yours, now and world without end....

My reply

Thanks. Even though the Rapture hasn't happened yet, it can't be far off. Hang in there and keep watching....

Incoming Email

Arutz-7 News:
"The Palestinians plan to declare an independent Palestinian state by the end of 1999. So said Palestinian Authority secretary, Taib Abdal Rachem in the name of Yasser Arafat at the dedication ceremony of a Gaza school."

Incoming Email

webmaster wrote:
Hi Marilyn,

Have you ever read Jeremiah 28? Do you try most to emulate Hannaniah or Jeremiah? We are just curious.

We are studying the different views of the rapture. Everything that we read about the pretrib rapture theory states that we won't know the day nor the hour, that no signs will precede its coming. Our question to you then is how long do you believe that we have been in the tribulation? And how many years do you believe that we have left before the vials of wrath are poured out? What was the mark of the beast? We are anxious lest we took the mark without knowing.

The url for our site is http://notdeceived.net
In Christ, Sam and Karen
--
Have you been deceived?

My reply

I visited your site. On it, you said,

> He said He was coming back at the last trump.
>
> Why are there disagreements over His timing?
>
> People do not study the Word for themselves.
> People misinterpret the Bible, often using biased margin notes.
> People are misled or deceived by well meaning teachers who are
> only teaching what they were taught."

Your web site that is under construction and due to open next week, suggests to me that you are not taking your own implied advise here, for people to "study the Word for themselves."

You are first and foremost following human writings about the Bible. You start off with things like, "Based on our research so far," "We are studying the different views," "Everything that we read about the pretrib rapture theory," and "Specifically, we are investigating the Niagra Conferences of the 1880's and 1890's." You quote William Kelly, John Nelson Darby, etc. If you will lay aside all that other material, pray for wisdom and just let the scriptures tell you what they mean, you will understand. The Bible interprets itself.

You said, "People are misled or deceived by well meaning teachers who are only teaching what they were taught."

I feel sorry for you. You think of OTHERS being deceived, but not of the chance of YOUR being deceived by "well meaning teachers." You imply that they are deceived because they are not smart enough, but you are not deceived because you are smarter than they are. Don't kid yourself.

Starting with man's word instead of God's Word is dangerous--for YOU and for THEM. Don't you realize that YOU can be led astray by accepting opinions of others without seeing if they jibe with Scripture? We all need to read the Bible BEFORE reading man's words about it. Without that frame of reference, bit by bit, you can be shoved off track by the most reasonable sounding words.

Even Satan sugar coats his pills with some truth to get us to swallow false doctrine. How do you think the Jehovah's Witnesses can be deceived? If you study with them, all along the way, step by step, without reading the Bible for yourself, you can be brought to the point of accepting a lie. You can be brainwashed. You think you see what they think they see. They see what someone before them thought they saw. It sounds right, but it is not right. As you go, you mistakenly think that you are not being deceived; yet you are being so subtly deceived by reasonable sounding words that you don't realize it. The Mystery Religion of Babylon was similar. One was led by stages and did not know the end from the beginning.

> Have you ever read Jeremiah 28? Do you try most to emulate Hannaniah or Jeremiah?

Neither. I am not a prophet. Period. How about you?

> no signs will precede its coming

Jeepers. You must think God sure wasted a lot of empty words, huh? How much of the Bible would you throw out? This is absurd for one who believes in a Pre-Trib Rapture. It is more ludicrous for you. You think the whole Tribulation has to pass before it can take place. Are there no signs in the Tribulation, either? A lot of the Bible is about the end of this age and the beginning of the Millennium.

Lu. 21:24-28 says, "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be SIGNS in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And WHEN THESE THINGS BEGIN TO COME TO PASS, THEN LOOK UP, AND LIFT UP YOUR HEADS; FOR YOUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH."

I think the time frame here runs from when Israel took Jerusalem in 1967 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007 (1967 + 40 = 2007). I think our time of looking up and watching began in 1967. Because there is a seven-year Tribulation, and those seen in Heaven in Rev. 5;9 are not part of it, the time the wise virgins have left on Earth are not long.

Are you going to parrot what you have read in man's works? or will you stand on what Scripture says?

> how long do you believe that we have been in the tribulation?

We are not in it yet.

> how many years do you believe that we have left before
> the vials of wrath are poured out?

Nine.

> What was the mark of the beast?

It "was"n't anything. It is still future.

After building your house of cards with all your exhaustive research, you just might find that these things knock the cornerstone out from under your house:

In his just-under-1500-word sermon, "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World," Pseudo-Ephraem (c.374-627 AD) said, "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins." Way back then, this preacher understood what you do not understand yet today.

Luke 21:36 says, "WATCH ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS (the Tribulation) that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." The word for escape is EKPHEUGO, "escape OUT OF or AWAY FROM." We get our word EXIT from the prefix, "EK." Strong's gives "vanish" as an alternate meaning for EKPHEUGO. From ESCAPE to VANISH, not the slightest hint of "survive through."

If the Rapture were at the seventh trumpet, it would mean that God's saints went through six trumpet judgments on the Day of God's Wrath, which begins after the sixth seal is broken. That includes the two pieces of the asteroid impacting Earth in Rev. 8:8,10 and destroying civilization as we know it.

Rev. 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" The Seven trumpet judgments are poured out on Earth after the seventh seal is broken in Rev. 8. Yet, even the Tribulation saints are in Heaven by Rev. 7:14. The Pre-Trib saints are seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. They are in Heaven before the first seal is broken in Rev. 6. The Tribulation saints are in Heaven (Rev. 7:14) between the breaking of the sixth (Rev. 6:12) and seventh seals (Rev. 8:1).

Sorry that you failed to understand it, but I believe what God's Word says, rather than what man says. I Thess. 5:9 says, "God hath not appointed us to wrath." In I Thess. 1:10, God's Word says, "to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

I am waiting for his Son from heaven. My Lord Jesus Christ has "delivered us from the wrath to come," whether you believe it or not.

There are two assembly trumpets. Read Nu. 10:2-4. They have nothing to do with judgment trumpets. You think not, but you have been subtly deceived. The "last trump" is the last sounding of the two silver assembly trumpets, not the seventh trumpet judgment. Your house of cards has lost its cornerstone.

I tell you this in God's agape love, in hopes that you will be smart enough to sit back and take another good look at what Scripture says before you go on perpetuating what man's wisdom says.

PS: I started to close my browser and noticed that you said:

> What Are We Trying To Accomplish?
>
> Our primary goal is to show what we believe the Bible clearly says about the
> return of Christ. We believe that the simplest explanation is usually true.
>
> Our secondary goal is to expose the deception that has
> been passed on through several generations.
>
> Our final goal is to reach those who are lost and those who are confused by
> all of the supposed contradictions in the Bible and in the interpretation of it.
>
> Our family goal is to wake up our friends and family and to alert them to the
> deception that has been perpetrated on them.

If you are trying to straighten out "those who are confused," be sure that you don't have a beam in your eye before trying to take the mote out of theirs. What if they have not been deceived after all? Agape

Incoming Email

(From Finland)
Though it is late at night, I felt compelled to open my PC and write to you. The very first time I heard about the water pouring from Temple mount I really took a notice of it. But now as it is confirmed by other sources it is even more interesting. Just minutes ago I checked what is been said in Ezek 47. It is staggering - a very significant prophecy for Israel and for all peoples. I am sure that Israel will soon see the blessing of the Lord - as written in that verse - as far as I could understand, it means that the "dead see" will become very much alive!

Also the mighty river might even sweep - this is just my speculation - the mosque out of the holy mount. Anyway the jews will no doubt consider urgently building the THIRD TEMPLE.

I wonder if it will be known when exactly the pouring of the water started? Maybe seven days before...

My reply

Today is the 24th and we are still here. Anyway, I am still watching. The Rapture can't be far off.

So far the best guess as to when the water started is May 5. It could have something to do with the building of the temple. We'll see. The Dead Sea will have fish in it like the Mediterranean in the Millennium. Agape

Incoming Email

Well like Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. it is the end of May 22 here, the rapture has not happened. but I am awalys trying to be ready for it because nobody knows the day or the hour nor do you. Nor will any of us. numerology is not going to tell you when it is as well as should have proved to you thus far. Don't loose your salvation over this cause it's not worth it. Just be ready for it to happen fully expecting it to come. Listen to the message of Matthew 24:37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. Noah did not even know the day of the flood nor did the people of the world even expect such a thing to happen. Matthew 24:38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. God Bless you Always

My reply

> nobody knows the day or the hour nor do you

No I don't, but I am sure alert and watching. The main thing is that we get ready and stay ready. It can't be far off. Every day is one day closer.

> Noah did not even know the day of the flood

Why not? Gen. 6:3 says that man's "days shall be an hundred and twenty years." Gen. 7:4 says, "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain."

> Don't loose your salvation over this cause it's not worth it.

Nothing can damage my faith, even if salvation could be lost, which I don't think it can. One can lose rewards, but not salvation.

> "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking

That applied to the people that were not in the Ark, not to Noah and his family. Agape

Incoming Email

Jest4Jesus@aol.com wrote:
the bible clearly says No one knows the day or hour! and that the things coming on the earth are the START of birth pangs......if Jesus comes tomorrow or with in the next few minutes then Praise The Lord! but even if he comes 70 or 80 years from now then Hallelujah, with Him there is no time, He knows when Jesus will come back and when the rapture is, I stopped worrying when the Rapture is going to take place awhile back, I hope it is before the tribulation, some argue that it is after the tribulation or in the middle, regardless of when it is we should all be watching and ready, I know that someone is going to wrong but the fact is Jesus is going to come back and He doesn't need our help at all. We can't say when he is going to come back, I read a list of predictions on when Jesus was going to come back, it goes way back, but everyone was wrong, you cannot predict the day or hour, I don't see how people keep trying to get around that verse and predict it anyway!

We all need to be watchful and leave the time up to the Father, He has it in control, our job is to preach the gospel, live a life pleasing to Him and be ready so we can have Him say, "well done thou good and faithful servant" even in 1988 when the rapture was predicted a lot of people were getting excited about that, even people I knew that I thought had better sense that to believe that someone could tell you when Jesus would come back.

One guy was actually telling me "3 weeks" I knew that it wouldn't be 3 weeks, things have to happen first, a lot more wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes, pestilence, famines, what we see right now are the beginning of all these sorrows, the birth pangs, and what we see now will not even compare to what will take place before we are raptured, regardless of it being before during or after the tribulation, and if we do go through the tribulation I believe even then that the Lord will somehow protect us, some people believe that we will have to go through that because ALL Christians have to endure some kind of tribulation, well we do in a way, they include the Christians in Russia that were persecuted and then they go on with a whole list, but there are some that never were persecuted as well, the point is we belong to God, if we suffer or not, if we are raptured or not today, tomorrow or whenever we belong to Him.

I know at times that when people predict the rapture people come to Jesus, in 1988 I heard stories of people getting saved, well I'm sure some did but Christians love to take stories and blow them up out of proportion.

I remember a time when everyone was talking about "the new money" and everyone was scared, especially in the church, well lo and behold Hilton Sutton wrote and article about it and examined it, he found that the new money was nothing more than the start of that anti counterfeit strip they have now.

The scare of the Y2K is coming from a lot of Christians, my wife and will probably buy a weeks worth of extra groceries and take some extra money out of the bank, but I've been a year with out electricity so I know how to handle that if worse came to worse, Christians are the ones responsible the most when it comes to predicting the worst, yes there were probably some that got saved when the rapture book came out, but it was done out of fear, And God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of Love, Power and a Sound Mind. We are not to put fear in people, Yes the fear of God and the Fear of going to hell, but we help instill faith, faith in a loving God that sent His son to die for us so we wouldn't have to endure it.

I hope you can predict when Jesus is coming, but it makes me think of a scripture that says , "When will his coming be?" and bringing out the mockers, maybe God is using the predictors to bring further fulfillment to the scriptures and prepare our hearts for His coming. I know one thing for sure, we had better stick together as brothers and sisters in Christ and preach the Gospel and Love one another, God Bless and Be watchful. Alan

My reply

> even if he comes 70 or 80 years from now

To me, that is impossible because Jeruslem was taken by Israel in 1967.

> things have to happen first, a lot more wars and rumors of wars,
> earthquakes, pestilence, famines, what we see right now are the beginning of
> all these sorrows, the birth pangs, and what we see now will not even compare
> to what will take place before we are raptured

You could be kidding yourself that something else has to happen first. I would hate to think that it would be a long way off and it happen next week.

> I know one thing for sure, we had better stick together as brothers and sisters
> in Christ and preach the Gospel and Love one another, God Bless and Be watchful.

This we are in total agreement on. Agape

Incoming Email

hi what does the verse 2cor. 5-7 mean? for we walk by faith, not by sight

My reply

It seems that the angels were created able to see God and 1/3rd of them failed to obey him. Man was created not being able to see God. His test is to walk by faith and obey God without being able to see him.

Incoming Email

Well to say I am disappointed is an understatement. I was so looking forward to the Lord showing His great love and redemption for His Bride. I know how much work you have put into your web site. Keep the Rapture Watch going. It may be this fall or next year. I am convinced that it has to happen soon.

Stay strong. There is much work to be done yet. God is not finished with the world as we know it. Love

My reply

Thanks. I'm strong. The Rapture can't be far away. We need to stay ready and wait patiently. Agape
{I} I read your agonizing questions in PC329, but I think you may be barking up the wrong tree. As my favorite Jewish Christian teaches, Enoch represents the gentiles who will be raptured, Noah represents the Jews who will be left behind. Why so much speculation about Noah at this point? He represents the Jews whom God will protect and guide through the Tribulation. The ark God told Noah to build never left the world! The waters lifted it, but it never left the earth. I think we should be more concerned with the mysterious Enoch, who was taken without warning. Now I know there are signs indicating the Rapture could occur at any moment; I have no trouble discerning the signs of the times. (I think we should already be gone!) I don't believe the flood waters in this case represent the Holy Spirit, but instead symbolizes the incredible destruction which will be rampant on the earth during the Tribulation. The ark, provided by God, protects all inside from destruction. I don't believe that true Christians will have any reason to "enter the Ark." We won't be here. The rapture will already have occurred!

Also, that the term "no man knoweth" is present tense and only referred to the first century is incomplete. When Jesus said no man knows the day or the hour, he had not yet revealed the mystery of the Rapture to the Apostles. That mystery was not spoken of until Paul came, years later, after Jesus' own resurrection. Therefore, Jesus was not speaking of the Rapture, but of the Day of the Lord at the end of the Tribulation.

On another note, Marilyn, may I suggest a vacation from the webpage and all emails? Sincerely

My reply

> Jewish Christian teaches, Enoch represents the gentiles who will be raptured,
> Noah represents the Jews who will be left behind.

This has nothing to do with Jews per se. In the Church there is no Jew or Gentile, male or female. We are "all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28).

However, Noah was not a Jew. At that time, there were no Jews. Noah died two years before Abraham was born. Jesus taught that as it was in the days of Noah, "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt. 24:39-41). This is the first Rapture, when the wise virgins go with the Bridegroom. Those that are left behind are not said to be Jews. They are the foolish virgins of Mt. 25:1-13.

The second Rapture is different. It is as the days of Lot. BTW, Lot was not a Jew (Hebrew), either. He was related to Abraham, but not in the line of descent through Isaac. Lu. 17:28-37 says, Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold...But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them ALL."

At the first Rapture, those left behind have the chance to be taken up in the second Rapture. At the second Rapture, those left behind have no chance to be taken up at all. The asteroid impacts Earth that very day. Time has run out on that offer.

> The ark God told Noah to build never left the world!
> The waters lifted it, but it never left the earth.

It was sybolic. The Ark was Noah's saviour. Christ is our Ark, our Saviour. Noah was raised up above the highest mountains by the water. We will be raised up in the air above the highest mountains too--by the Spirit of Christ. He is referred to as living water.

> I think we should be more concerned with the mysterious
> Enoch, who was taken without warning.

We should be concerned with both. The first Rapture will be as Enoch and as in the days of Noah. The second will be as Elijah and as in the days of Lot.

> I don't believe that true Christians will have any reason to "enter the
> Ark." We won't be here. The rapture will already have occurred!

We may have symbolically already entered it at Pentecost last year. We just have to stay in the Ark until God says, "Go forth."

> That mystery was not spoken of until Paul came, years later, after Jesus' own
> resurrection. Therefore, Jesus was not speaking of the Rapture, but of the Day
> of the Lord at the end of the Tribulation.

It was not really understood, but the information was there already. Paul just made it understandable. Up to that time, it was a mystery not understood. Isa. 57:1,2 said, "merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is TAKEN AWAY from the evil to come." That is the Pre-Trib Rapture.

How could the first group be caught up and others left behind who can be caught up with the second group if the former was the beginning of the millennial Day of the Lord? That is when those left behind the second time have the fire fall on them that very day. Both Raptures can't take place at the same time. Those left behind the first time still have a chance to be caught up the second time. That is after they wash their robes. The first group are caught up before the Tribulation starts. Elijah comes during the Tribulation. Mal 4:5 says, "I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great a dreadful day of the LORD."

> On another note, Marilyn, may I suggest a vacation
> from the webpage and all emails?

Thanks. I know you are well-meaning, but there is so little time, I can't let up now. We are promised rest in Heaven. I want to work while there is time. In this race we are running, this is the time to sprint, not drop back for a rest. We can rest after we pass the finish line.

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Updated 5-27-99