Pro and Con 335
Incoming Email Marilyn, you may have already considered this. I was reading John 20 this morning. Thomas would not believe Jesus had risen from the dead until he put his fingers into the print of the nails, and thrust his hand into Jesus' side.
Verse 26:" And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you........verse 29: Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." Marilyn, can the eight days interval be connected to the first and second rapture? All had known Jesus, but Thomas held back (the "I won't believe it until I see it" type). Let me know what you think. In His Love
My reply I think that there is a good chance that this applies. If the Rapture takes place on Pentecost, figured astronomically, June 20, 1999, it would fit (1999 + 8 = 2007).
Here is what I wrote regarding this on http://www.pe.net/~mjagee/pentecost1999.html. (omitted)
Incoming Email Just wanted to write and encourage you and fellow watchers to be encouraged...our time here is short. In reading some of the recent posts...my spirit was in agreement. I've always thought we would leave this planet on a non-traditional day...but that we would definitely know the time. I also have always thought it would be neat to leave in a thunderstorm! I believe this is the year...too many messages from angels and the Lord Himself speaking to various people...indicate we are going to be leaving very, very soon. Keep searching...keeping looking up!
My reply Thanks. I'm watching too.
Incoming Email I find the comment in P & C 334 about Father's day very interesting, because if my memory serves me right, I believe the first outpouring of the Holy Spirit at the Toronto Airport Church took place on Father's day 1995.
I can also confirm a sudden, and violent thunderstorm we experienced at 10p.m. on Saturday, 22nd May. As I went to collect my children at the movie theatre, we suddenly had this freak storm. Bear in mind that our rain (and thunderstorm) season is long gone!
We are praying for continued strength for you and Ed, and wisdom, as you study the Word. Thank you for encouraging us, through your website. You have challenged my thinking, and given me a new hunger to learn more about God. May Father bless you in this ministry!
My reply Thanks for your prayers and kind words.
Your thunderstorm is interesting. Are you in Toronto? I am wondering how widespread this freak storm of May 22 was.
Note: He told be later, "We are rather far south of Toronto! Our home is Pretoria, South Africa, and we worship at Hatfield Christian Church."
Incoming Email I live in Winston-Salem, NC and on May 22 from 1:00 AM until about 8:00 AM, there was a terrific thunder storm in our area. I am 49 and my husband is 69. The storm was the longest either one of us could remember. The wind was violently blowing and we received 4.50 inches of rain. I thought it was interesting that South Africa, Iowa and California had a storm the same day. If you could find out if people in other parts of the world had a storm the same day, it might be significant.
I want you to know what a blessing you have been to me. I have read almost all of the P&C's and look forward to them every day. You have certainly given me a wake up call and I appreciate it more than you know. I have never felt so close to Jesus! I will wait and watch no matter how long it takes. I pray for you, Ed and everyone on this Web site every day. There is so much love here!
Thank you, again, dear Marilyn, for all your hard work and faithfulness! May God richly bless you with stars in your crown! Agape
My reply Well, thank you, and may God richly bless you with stars in your crown also. "I have never felt so close to Jesus! I will wait and watch no matter how long it takes" is mighty good news, the best kind. I feel that way too.
I am glad to know where the storm hit. It was a dilly here. When I lived in Indiana, I was used to this kind of storm, but not out here in California...
There are many that need to get themselves ready for the Rapture. However, it seems to me from my incoming email that more and more are finally feeling the need to set things in order in their lives so as not to be a foolish virgin when the Lord comes. At that time, we are told that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The saddest words are these, "It might have been." Now is the time to get right with the Lord. We never know when it will be too late.
I appreciate your prayers. You probably don't know how much.
Re: With Love
I hope you still know me to be your friend. No doubt the time is short, but the amount of work you put into this compared to the time you could be spending with your family is monumental. These people don't need you to sustain their faith. That is Jesus Christ's job. You've been wrong more than twice now and some of your eschatology is reaching in the extreme. If anything I think your site needs to get back to sound eschatological analysis and don't waste your or our time with issues of little or no substance. It will save you time and improve the quality of the material on your site. I am also certain your husband would be very thankful of the extra time you could spend with him, especially when he is feeling so poorly. There is a scripture somewhere in the New Testament that states a man's faith is in vain if he doesn't care for his family.
My reply I know you mean well, but family duties do come first. That is why I lose so much sleep. For about thirty-eight years, I have studied when I should be sleeping. It is the only way everything got done.
Concerning Jesus Christ's job, Jesus works through the Body of Christ too, you know. What if the Rapture happens on the astronomical Pentecost, June 20? I sure wouldn't want to be one of those that slack off because they think the time is long.
Gen. 1:14 says, "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven (lit., heavens) to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years." We have good reason to use the astronomical calendar. We have scripture to back it up. Agape
I am not suggesting that you wax cold, but that you remember as a Christian that your priorities are God, Family, Others, Self. As a part of your efforts you may want to work more efficiently. Even Moses could not bear the burden of trying to judge the whole people. His father in law gave him wise counsel in appointing judges to help in his work. Being more efficient is not waxing cold or slacking off. If you continue to be consistently wrong, then eventually you will undermine the very faith of those you are trying to strengthen. Last year after Pentecost your eschatological reasoning went from a refined state to reaching for anything that could be construed as a close or meaningful date and tossing out all of the reasoning you used for prior dates. Why not leave the topic at "We know it is near....even at the door...". And if the bible indeed concludes that the wise shall know, perhaps the signs will be even more obvious for the world to see than what we are looking at. And that is not a bad thing, because perhaps it will wake more people up to their calling. Perhaps Thessalonians is right in simply stating that it will coincide with the revealing of the antichrist and a great falling away or apostasy. Or as Daniel discusses maybe we will be hearing discussions about the confirmation of a 7 year covenant. Could it possibly be that simple? Possibly, yes. So many Christians are even clueless to these very basic scriptures that it could add up to a 50/50 split.
Last year, I didn't toss out any of the prior reasoning I had used. That information is still posted on my Web site. Someone nice sent me detailed Jewish information on their festivals. I tried to give out that information, just in case that had any bearing on the subject at hand. It was not because I personally thought it could be at those times. Pentecost has always seemed the most likely to me. Second most likely to me is any time allowed by the clues in Song of Sol. 2:10-14, which seems to be spring or early summer. However, we need to have as many facts at hand as possible in order to make a wise decision. If we deliberately close our eyes to anything, we could miss finding a piece of the puzzle. We are supposed to watch, and I aim to keep watching.
> Perhaps Thessalonians is right in simply stating that it will coincide with the
> revealing of the antichrist and a great falling away or apostasy.
The "man of sin...the son of perdition" of II Thess. 2:3 is the False Prophet. He is not to be revealed before the "apostasia," departing, as in a divorce, "apostacion," i.e., the Rapture. He is being restrained by the Holy Spirit until we, the salt that restrains the growth of leaven, are gone.
This man is the beast of Rev. 13:11-18. He is the one "whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" (II Thess. 2:9). Rev. 13:13 says, "And he doeth great wonders (signs), so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."
BTW, almost all the major MSS have day of the Lord instead of day of Christ in II Thess. 2:2. I know for sure that the Sinaitic Codex, the Vatican Codex, and the Alexandrine Codex do (see "Tischendorf's New Testament" note). The whole passage means that the millennium Day of the Lord won't come until (1) after the Rapture, (2) after the False Prophet is revealed, and (3) after the unsaved accept him as the Messiah.
II Thess. 2 starts out, "NOW we beseech you, brethren (believers), by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM (the Rapture), That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (day of the Lord) is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (Day of the Lord) shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia, departing, i.e., the Rapture) first, and that man of sin (the False Prophet) be revealed (second), the son of perdition" (as he signs the 7-year peace treaty as the Tribulation begins).
If you say that the son of perdition has to be revealed before the Rapture, you are, in effect, saying that there is no Pre-Trib Rapture. This is why Paul said, "Let no man deceive you by any means." At the time of the Rapture, the False Prophet is the one in Rev. 17:10 that "IS NOT YET COME." Agape
Incoming Email Re "seven kings: five are fallen, and ONE IS, and the other is not yet come."
Who do you think these kings are? Are we maybe waiting for some political figure or maybe pope to be elected?
The question is: who are we looking for?
Thanks for the great faith you have in Christ, even when things don't work out as we think - you mean much to us all.
My reply Actually, we are only looking for Christ to appear. At the same time, we are watching world events as signs of his soon coming. Perhaps we will have another Pope. I have wondered about this for years. This one thinks that the next one will be the Tribulation Pope. He could be right. I don't know. Keep watching. When the time comes, we may recognize who the first beast will be, but not the wicked one, the False Prophet. He is being hindered until after the Rapture takes place (II Thess. 2:6,7). However, he will be revealed as both beasts of Rev. 13 sign the 7-year peace treaty as the Seventieth Week of Daniel begins on the Feast of Weeks in 2001.
Note: She replied with this: "I know you're too busy for unnecessary mail - but I had to laugh out loud. My question to you was "...who are we actually looking for" - meaning pope/political figure etc - You replied "Well actually we're just looking for Christ"
"Well, we love you dearly and thanks for replying so faithfully."
Rev. 17: 10-12 is very interesting. As I understand it, the first beast of Rev. 13 is the one who "IS" in office at the time of the Rapture, but is not head of world government until the Peace Treaty is signed. He is the sixth head of the great red dragon. The False Prophet is the seventh, and Satan himself is the eighth of Rev. 17:11. The second beast of Rev. 13 is the other who "IS NOT YET COME."
THE KINGS AND THEIR KINGDOMS AT THE TIME OF THE RAPTURE
Five are fallen
(1) Nimrod of Babel/Babylon I
(2) Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon II
(3) Cyrus of Media-Persia
(4) Alexander the Great of Greece
(5) Caesars of the Roman Empire
(6) The Beast of Ecclesiastic Rome
"the other" has not yet come
(7) the False Prophet of Babylon III
(8) Satan, upon whom they all ride
I looked up Josephus (Wars VI.V.2,3). He said that in 70 AD, "A FALSE PROPHET was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made a public proclamation in the city that very day, that God commanded them to get up upon the temple, and that there they should receive miraculous signs of their deliverance" (all emphasis mine). That was 40 years after the Crucifixion in 30 AD. Today, another False Prophet will be the reason destruction will fall in 2007, just 40 years after the Sign of the End of the Age in 1967.
Josephus said that they "did not attend, nor give credit, to THE SIGNS that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation; but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that GOD made to them. Thus there was a STAR resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a COMET, that continued a whole year."
In our days, we have been seeing what seem to be signs in the heavens, two comet's paths crossing in the Rosh Satan (head of Satan), comet pieces impacting Jupiter, gamma-ray bursters of gigantic proportions, now a new star on Sivan 7, May 22, Pentecost. Let's consider that these may have a dual purpose, not only to encourage us that the Lord's coming is near, but to also foretell "future desolation" in the 40th year after the Sign of the End of the Age. The desolation will come with asteroid pieces hitting Earth (Rev. 8:8,10; 18:21). The correlation with those comet/asteroid pieces hitting Jupiter is inescapable.
It is interesting that in 66 AD, on Nisan 8, at 3 AM, Josephus said that "so brilliant a light shone around the altar and the inner temple that it seemed to be broad daylight; and this continued for the space of half an hour." After that, the light removed itself from the site of the Temple. At Passover, "the eastern gate of the inner court at the sixth hour of the night (midnight) opened of its own accord. This gate was of brass and very large and heavy, seeing that when it was closed each evening it took twenty men to shut it. It had bolts sunk to a great depth into a threshold made of a solid block of stone." Then on the following "Pentecost, the priests on entering the inner court of the temple at nightfall, as their custom was in the accomplishment of their ministrations, stated that they first became aware of a commotion and a roar, and after that the voice of a great multitude saying 'We are departing hence'."
This sign of departing (Gr., apostasia) was in 66 AD, when the Jewish revolt started that ended with Jerusalem and the temple being burned in 70 AD. The gate opened on Passover, and the SIGN of departing was on Pentecost.
In our days, the new star Nova Velorum 1999 was seen on May 22, 1999, Pentecost. This star also seems to be a SIGN of departing. It is in the Vela, SAILS, of the ship Argo, which means COMPANY OF TRAVELLERS.
Ed brought in a timely FAX from Sharon Kaiser. She graciously sent me the meaning of the names of the stars in Argo, according to Seiss' "Gospel in the Stars." Canopus means THE POSSESSION OF HIM WHO COMETH. Sephina means MULTITUDINOUS GOOD, THE VERY ABUNDANCE. Tureis means THE FIRM POSSESSION IN HAND. Asmidiska means THE TRAVELLERS RELEASED. Soheil means WHAT WAS DESIRED.
Nova Velorum appeared near Suhail and Aspidiske. I assume that these are the same as what Seiss called Soheil and Asmidiska. The ship represents Christ the Saviour, as the Ark did, because it saved Noah's family. Argo has the head of a man on the lower part of the prow and a ram's head on the tip of the prow, making it very easy to identify what it represents, Christ, the lamb of God. The message seems clear. We are in the ship, i.e., in Christ, THE POSSESSION OF HIM WHO COMETH. We are about to be Raptured, THE TRAVELLERS RELEASED. We are about to get WHAT WAS DESIRED.
On Tamuz 17, in 70 AD, Josephus said that "the sacrifice called 'the Daily Sacrifice' had failed, and had not been offered to God FOR WANT OF MEN to offer it" (Wars VI.II.1). That was the very day the Romans breached the walls of Jerusalem. They destroyed the city for 21 days and torched the temple on Av 9. It burned also on Av 10.
Does it seem significant that in our days, the 21 pieces of the comet Shoemaker-Levy started hitting Jupiter on Av 9, July 17, 1994, and that 21 days before that was Tamuz 17?
We need to stay ready and alert to what is going on in the world and in the heavens. Only those with eyes to see will recognize the signs of the times.
"The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray. Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins" (1 Peter 4:7-8). Agape
Incoming Email cynthia roop - firstname.lastname@example.org - wrote:
Mrs Agee, You must stop looking to the stars for your answers. Take down your website. you are leading God's people astray with your nonsense and date setting. Repent of your wrongdoing now!!!!
My reply My dear. You have no right to order me to do anything. This is a free country. I have as much right to free speech as you do. I also have as much right to my opinions as you do to yours. If you do not like my Web site, why in this world do you read it and continue to send me this kind of email? I would not tell you such for I would not like to have it credited against me. If you put up a Web site and I didn't like it, I just wouldn't go back. We are supposed to treat believers with agape love.
I Peter 1:22 says, "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently."
I Peter 2:16,17 says, "As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king."
I Peter 4:8 says, "And above all things have fervent charity (agape, love) among yourselves; for charity shall cover the multitude of sins." Agape
Her reply I am glad you finally responded. even if it was angrily. If you feel that you are doing right by looking to the stars for answers then go right ahead. but i tell you you are in sin with this one. and as a fellow believer i am obligated to tell you this and to ask you to take down your website. I am challenging you to tell me where you find it in your bible that we are to look to the stars for answers. I can show your where it is called sin!
The greatest form of love is to restore a wayward one like you. Do not tell me i do not love you, because i care enough to challenge you to do right by our Lord. He disciplines those that He loves, and asks us to show others the right ways also. Your website is full of ungodly stargazing lunacy.
My reply I told you in a previous email that you did not understand the difference between astrology and astronomy. At that time, you did not have ears to hear. Do you now? or am I wasting my time trying to show you?
Astrology is "the divination of the supposed influences of the stars upon human affairs and terrestrial events by their positions and aspects" (Webster). This is Satanic and forbidden. Astrology is Satan's perversion of the original use of the stars and constellations. He does it so people like you will not pay any attention to God's real signs when they do appear. You will paint the whole Zodiac with the same brush, never realizing that there is a gospel written in the stars. Satan is very sneaky and fools many.
Astronomy is "the science of the celestial bodies and of their magnitudes, motions, and constitution" (Webster).
Genesis 1:14, says, "God said, Let there be lights (i.e., Sun, Moon, stars, comets, etc.) in the firmament (expanse of space) of the heaven (lit., heavens) to divide the day from the night; and let them be for SIGNS (owth, in the sense of appearing, a signal, evidence, mark, miracle), and for SEASONS (moed, an appointment, appointed time, a fixed time, spec. a festival, an assembly, technically the congregation, a signal [as appearing beforehand], place of assembly), and for days, and years)."
Did you notice that God himself said, "let them be for SIGNS, and for SEASONS"?
Psa. 147:4 says of the Lord, "He telleth the number of the stars; HE CALLETH THEM ALL BY THEIR NAMES." These names have been known to all nations since ancient times.
There were many years before mankind had any kind of scriptures. Before he had written scriptures, man was still without excuse for the gospel was written in the stars. Enoch was a prophet (Jude 14). Evidently, he drew up the pictorial gospel in the stars. It pictured the struggle between the seed of the woman (Christ) and the seed of the serpent (Satan) (Gen. 3:15). "And Enoch walked with God; and he was not; for God took him" (raptured him) (Gen. 5:24). "Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that HE PLEASED GOD" (Heb. 11:5).
Job was possibly the oldest book of the Bible. There is not a hint of the Law in his writing. Yet, the constellations were known to him.
In Job 9:8,9, he spoke of God, "Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea. Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south." The Pleiades are in Taurus, and the chambers of the south are in Scorpio. Arcturus is a star in Bootes, the shepherd harvester type of Christ.
In Job 26:13,14, he said of God, "By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent (Hydra). LO, THESE ARE PARTS OF HIS WAYS."
In Job 38:31-33, God said, "Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth (the 12 signs of the Zodiac) in his season? Or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth."
In Bullinger's "Witness of the Stars" (p. vi), he said, "No one can dispute the antiquity of the signs of the Zodiac, or of the constellations. No one can question the accuracy of the ancient star names which have come down to us, for they are still preserved in every good celestial atlas."
Lu. 21:11 says, "great SIGNS shall there be from heaven." Lu. 21:25 says, "And there shall be SIGNS in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars."
Rev. 12:1 says, "AND there appeared a great wonder (SIGN) in heaven; a woman (i.e., Virgo, the virgin) clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars."
Rev. 12:3 says, "And there appeared another wonder (SIGN) in heaven; and behold a great red dragon."
The scriptures show that there will be SIGNS in the heavens. If you recognize them, fine. If you do not recognize them, fine. Just don't paint believers that are trying to recognize them with the astrology brush.
Before Jesus was born, the wise men saw a NEW STAR. This is why they made a four-month journey to see him that was to be King of the Jews. May 22, 1999, Pentecost on the Jewish Talmudic calendar, another NEW STAR appeared. His return for his Bride is near. Don't you think this new star just might be a SIGN of his coming since a new star was the SIGN of his coming the first time? Could it be that just one of the SIGNS (owth, signals appearing) in one of the SEASONS (moed, appointed times) do herald the soon coming of the Lord for his Bride?
Jesus told us 23 times to watch. What do you think we were to watch for? Could it be SIGNS? Agape
Incoming Email Re: P/C #332
I have not written in a while but continue to be blessed and encouraged as I follow your site. I just wanted to reiterate what someone posted about P/C #332 being truly inspired by the Holy Spirit. IT IS! It contains a wealth of scriptural insight into the latter days, and I just want to encourage all your readers to go back and print out a copy of it. It will be very helpful to those left after the first fruits rapture. Thanks again for your ministry, you are a blessing to many! Your Good News Club sister in Christ
Pro and Con 336 Or Return
Contact me for more information at: email@example.com
8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110
© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee