Pro and Con 337

Uploaded 6-6-99

Note: Job 38:22,23 says, "Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, Which I have reserved against the TIME OF TROUBLE (Day of Jacob's Trouble), against the day of battle and war?" To me, this shows that the attack of Ezek. 38 is on the Day of Jacob's Trouble, the Day of God's Wrath, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Ezek. 38:18,19 mentions that "at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken." I can't see why so many think this war could take place before the Tribulation.

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Thanks Marilyn. I have read part of the material at this sight you mentioned. It is interesting that the New moon this year that occurred right BEFORE Spring Equinox is the one that was counted and if it should have been the first one AFTER the Spring Equinox of Mar. 21, that means all of the feasts are ONE month off so far, right? Wierd, eh? Perhaps this extra month is the "tarrying" of the Bridegroom that is pictured in Song of Sol--? And I notice that LAST year it WAS counted correctly and the correct date came out as May 31. Curious. I wonder if the Jewish people have been counting these feasts incorrectly MOST of the time over the past centuries or just when the Passover is very, very early.

My reply

> feasts are ONE month off so far, right?

Yes (if this calendar is correct).

> Perhaps this extra month is the "tarrying" of the Bridegroom that is
> pictured in Song of Sol

And the tarrying in the parable of the 10 virgins (Mt. 25:5).

> I wonder if the Jewish people have been counting these feasts incorrectly MOST of the
> time over the past centuries or just when the Passover is very, very early

The adjustments could throw it off lots of years, but not by much, except when Nisan was begun before the Spring Equinox.

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Check out this site by Jack Van Impe and let me know what you think:

My reply

Here is the article. I disagree. My comments are interspersed.
Could there be a partial Rapture?
No. There are those who teach that only the perfect will be taken in the Rapture, but this is contrary to the teaching of God's Word. Many base this teaching on Hebrews 9:28 -- Unto them that look for him shall he appear THE SECOND TIME without sin unto salvation -- saying that the Rapture is only for those who are looking for it. But that does not agree with the rest of the Bible. One cannot take a text out of context, or he ends up with a pretext! Every verse on the subject must be considered before a valid conclusion can be reached regarding a doctrine. (emphasis is mine)

***From Marilyn: Yes, there can be a partial Rapture. The wise VIRGINS go, and the foolish VIRGINS stay. The lamps of the foolish were lit. They were in danger of going out for lack of extra oil of the Holy Spirit. They had quenched the Spirit with sins and needed to repent. The Philadelphians go (Rev. 3:8,10), and the lukewarm Laodiceans stay behind for chastisement (Rev. 3:19). No one is perfect. What we need to do is confess our sins committed since we accepted Christ, i.e., let Christ wash our feet, wash our robes in the blood of Christ.

***Those left behind will be cut off and appointed "his portion with the unbelievers" (Lu. 12:46) during the shortened Tribulation. Mt. 24:50,51 says of the evil servant, "The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (like the Pharisees, Mt. 23:27): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." He will go in the second Rapture just before God's Wrath falls on Earth. The first time, the Bride of Christ will go with the Bridegroom. The "second time," "all" the rest of the Body of Christ will go. They will be saved from fire since the asteroids (Rev. 8:8,10) hit that day at noon (Zech. 2:4,5).

***The first Rapture is as the days of Noah. No fire fell. The second Rapture is as the days of Lot. Fire fell that same day (Lu. 17:29).

First John 2:28 tells the other side of the story: And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. This verse starts with His appearing and ends with His coming, and says that when He comes, there will be many who are ashamed. Now, if they were perfect, they wouldn't be ashamed. So the idea that one must lead a sinless life in order to go in the Rapture does not agree with the rest of the Bible. One is not ashamed if he is perfect. Hence, the imperfect are raptured.

***No one is perfect, but the Philadelphians are not told to repent. They already have and have no need to feel ashamed. The Laodiceans have reason to be ashamed. They are told to repent. The group "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9 are those called by the first trump. "And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel (12 patriarchs and 12 apostles, the 24 elders, Rev. 4:4) shall gather themselved unto thee" (Num. 10:4).

***The "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" are seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:14. They, who were ashamed, have now "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." They are called to the assembly at the "last trump" (I Cor. 15:51,52; Nu. 10:3). There is a first trump and a last trump. "But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming" (I Cor. 5:23).

***The first group, of Rev. 5:9, are seen in Heaven before the first seal is opened in Rev. 6. The second group, of Rev. 7:14, are seen in Heaven between the breaking of the sixth seal (Rev. 6:12) and the seventh seal (Rev. 8).

The Bible also reveals that those persons saved by fire stand before the Lord (see 1 Corinthians 3:15). They made heaven "by the skin of their teeth," so to speak. The only way any of us can stand in a perfected state before Jesus Christ in that hour is through the merits of His shed blood. Second Corinthians 5:21 declares, For [God] hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the Righteousness of God in him. This is our only perfection. In addition, the Bible states that every believer is a member of the body of Christ (see 1 Corinthians 12:12,13). Should only those who meet a certain standard of spirituality be taken, the body of Jesus Christ would be dismembered and disfigured. This is an impossibility. I am so glad that 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52 states that we shall ALL be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump.

***He forgets that the head of the Body of Christ is now in Heaven. It is not dismembered and disfigured. It is as if a baby is being born into a new world. First, the head, then the torso, then the legs last, and one foot can exit before the other. As people live and die, more and more of the torso of the Body of Christ is born into Heaven. At the first Rapture, it is as if one foot is born into Heaven, the Bride of Christ. At the second Rapture, it is as if the other foot is born into Heaven. By that time, the entire Body will be born into the new world.

***Heaven--"there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Rev. 21:27). Some will just get there at the first trump. Others will get there at the last trump.

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yes i agree with you highly that the rapture is very very soon. i believe that this y2k thing will be the beginning of the tribulation so if it is then the rapture is before that and well were rapidly approaching the day of our lord appearing in the sky. God bless you write back

My reply

The Y2K bug problems won't be fun, but I think the Seventieth Week of Daniel/Tribulation will start on the Feast of Weeks in 2001.

Counting from when Israel took Jerusalem in 1967 plus the 40-year generation is 2007. We can tell that the end of the shortened Tribulation will be on the Feast of Trumpets (Mal. 2:3; Joel 2:1-3). Counting backward 2300 days (Dan. 8:14) from Sept. 13, 2007 (the Feast of Trumpets), by inclusive reckoning, is the Feast of Weeks, May 28, 2001. I think the shortened Tribulation runs from May 28, 2001 to Sept. 13, 2007.

Also, the Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993 and ratified three days later in Israel on Tishri 1, 5754. Sept. 13, 1993 + 14 years (7 good, 7 bad) = Sept. 13, 2007. Also, Tishri 1, 5754 + 14 = Tishri 1, 5768. That falls on Sept. 13, 2007. To me, it seems planned by God to show where the good years and bad years hit on our calendar.

We have to be out of here before that, and I think there is a space between the Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation. The Lord is near.

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It's me again asking curious questions concerning Pentecost! I looked at the website you referred me to (Central Highlands Christian Publications Homepage) and found the calendar for the astronomical Pentecost! I studied it for quite a while and figured out that they calculate the Holy days a lot different from what our calendar reads. If I am understanding it right, their calendar (which they refer to as "God's Calendar"), places Pentecost on June 20 because they calculate Abib 1 by starting on the new moon after the spring equinox (March 21). My question for you, if you know, is: Why do they count from the new moon after the spring equinox and not the new moon before the spring equinox for Abib 1 (the new year)?...God bless you

My reply

I think that since Abib means green ears, he thinks it is spring. Also, since the moon is appointed for seasons, it would seem that Abib would start in the spring and not be part winter, part spring.

As I read the 27-page book yesterday, I tended to go along with him. Certain things he said sounded right. However, today, I am having some doubts. I sent him an email asking what dates he gets for Pentecost in 2001 and the Feast of Trumpets in 2007.

The 2300 days of the shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:14) fits Sivan 6, 5761 through Tishri 1, 5768, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning on the Talmudic Jewish Calendar, and it is the only place it fits. I keep trying to figure out the correct way to count Pentecost, and every time I think maybe it is not Sivan 6, the 2300 days brings me right back to Sivan 6.

There are correlations between our calendar and the Talmudic one that seem too good to not have been planned by God. He has the power to oversee the various adjustments that both have gone through and to keep them aligned the way he wants them in the end times. At the end of a 19-year period, the two calendars agree so closely that, if I remember right, it only varies by one day in a century. I am just not ready to throw the Talmudic Calendar out.

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Re: Tarrying = The Lords Patience
I'm sorry to hear that you haven't been feeling well lately. Both you and Ed are in my prayers daily.

I am truely inspired by your firm and unwavering commitment to keeping a watchful eye out for the soon return of our Loving Savior.

While I was in prayer last night, I asked the Lord if he could help me to help others more clearly understand the approximate time-frame of his return. I immediately felt an awsome sensation and knew at that moment that the Holy Spirit was tugging at my heart. I suddenly knew that it was extremely important to more closely read and understand the parable of The Barren Fig Tree in Luke 13:6-9.

After rereading the parable very closely several times, keeping in mind that the tribulation is most likely to start around Pentecost 2001, I saw the Lord's Patience and His tarrying in a whole new light.

Luke 13:6-9 NAS
6) A certain man (Christ) had a fig tree (Israel) which had been planted in his vinyard; and HE CAME LOOKING for fruit on it, and did not find any (Pentecost 2000).
7) And he said to the vinyard keeper (Our Father's Loving Patience), Behold, for three years (Pentecost 1998, 1999, 2000) I HAVE COME LOOKING for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?
8) And he answered and said to him, Let it alone, sir, for this year too (Pentecost 2000 Pentecost 2001), until I dig around it and put in fertilizer (Many Jews witnessed to in the final year);
9) and if it bears fruit next year (Pentecost 2001), fine, but if not, cut it down (The Rapture of the Church Saints on Pentecost 2001, followed by the beginning of The Tribulation).

Could the Lord be tarrying to Rapture the church saints right up to the very last possible second?? If you think about it, wouldn't that be reflective of Our Loving Savior's Grace and Patience with His children, to wait until the very last possible moment?? My heart tells me YES!

Hoping that you can help shed more light on these questions within this parable, Your Friend in Christ Jesus

My reply

We sure appreciate your prayers in our behalf, and I aim to keep watching. Who knows what may turn up if we watch. I don't want to miss something I should have known.

When thinking over what you said, I went back to the modern parallels first. The 480th year, 5758 (1997/98), must have marked something, since all the other numbers in the 400s seem to. We know for sure that the first three hit right. It seems to have marked the 6000th year of man's test being mortal and knowing both good and evil. It also seems to line up with the years in the parable of the barren fig tree and put them in their proper place (5758, 5759, 5760, and 5761).

5278 + 400 = 5678 (1917/18) Jerusalem freed by Allenby
5278 + 430 = 5708 (1947/48) Israel declared her Independence
5278 + 450 = 5728 (1967/68) Six-Day War
5278 + 480 = 5758 (1997/98) 6000th year
5278 + 483 = 5761 (2000/01) Tribulation begins
5278 + 490 = 5768 (2007/08) Second Advent

Thus the year 5758 (1997/98) probably marked the first year in this parable and 5761 (2000/01) the last. This would agree with your 1998, 1999, and 2000 being the three years and 2001 being the extra year. This is what I thought when I figured the Rapture would take place in 1998. Now, let's consider something else. Why were the years grouped like this--5758, 5759, 5760--5761?

> HE CAME LOOKING for fruit on it, and did not find any (Pentecost 2000)...I HAVE
> COME LOOKING for fruit on this fig tree without finding any.

The NAS brings out something the KJV does not. In verse 7, it says, "I HAVE COME," where the KJV has "I COME." I pulled out Green's Interlinear, and he has, "I HAVE COME" in the English translation, but under the Greek word, he has "I COME," just as in the KJV.

The Lamsa Bible has "Behold, for three years I have been coming and seeking fruit." The NIV, JB, and Berkeley also have something similar. This must be the way we should take it.

That backs you up when you assume that he comes in 2000, as when you said,

> 6) A certain man (Christ) had a fig tree (Israel) which had been planted in his vinyard;
> and HE CAME LOOKING for fruit on it, and did not find any (Pentecost 2000).

The fact that there is a split in the years right there makes this seem probable too--3 years past--1 year future.

This could suggest that his coming in 2000 is a bit different than his coming in the two previous years. Only in the third year, is he said to SPEAK to the dresser of his vineyard. In the first two years, he seeks; in the third, he speaks.

According to Thayer, "zeteo" (to seek) means to seek in order to find out, by thinking, meditating, reasoning, or inquiring into. At the Rapture, he will definitely speak in "a great voice, as of a trumpet," and say, "Come up hither." It makes me wonder. There is nothing definite to tie the Rapture to that parable, but his COMING and SPEAKING suggest it. Any of the years that the Lord comes could be the year of the Rapture. However, maybe the process of elimination is showing us the right one now. One thing, he is not said to come or speak during the extra year. That extra year could be the gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation.

The parable definitely applies to the fig tree, Israel. That we can be sure of. I think of those years as Israel's grace years. If she doesn't produce fruit during those years, the Tribulation will take place. It is her last chance to avoid the 5th cycle of discipline of Lev. 26:27,28. It says, "And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times (years) for your sins." (The lukewarm Laodiceans will have their portion of chastisement with the unbelievers too, Rev. 3:19; Lu. 12:46.)

Right now, Israel is walking on thin ice. As a nation, they have rejected their Messiah and given control of the temple area to the Moslems. They and the united nations are parting God's land. Joel 3:2 says, "I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat (God judges, the judgment of the Lord), and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and PARTED MY LAND."

I wonder what the digging about and fertilizing Israel portrays. Could graves being opened at the Rapture have anything to do with that? After the Crucifixion, some came out of their graves and appeared to people in Jerusalem. So you suppose this would happen again? If spring and early summer passes this year without the Rapture taking place, I will think the Rapture will be next spring (Pentecost 2000). It doesn't seem that it would take place during the extra year (no coming or speaking that year), and the digging could be associated with the Rapture.

Comparing Rev. 17:12 with 13:1 shows me that there is a gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation. At the Rapture, the ten kings have no kingdom as yet. As the Tribulation begins, all ten have crowns.

Micah plays the part of a Tribulation saint in Mic. 7:1,2. He says, "WOE is me! for I am as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage (Tishri): there is NO CLUSTER to eat: my soul desired the FIRSTRIPE FRUIT. The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men."

Note: the word translated "perished" is "abad," ESCAPED.

In the LXX, when they sent the spies into the promised land, Nu. 13:19-21 says, "see the land...whether it is good or bad...whether there are trees in it, or no: and ye shall persevere and take of the fruits of the land: and the days were the days of SPRING, the FORERUNNERS OF THE GRAPE." In the KJV, verses 20 and 21 say, "Now the time was the time of the FIRSTRIPE GRAPES. So they WENT UP." To me this says spring. Song of Sol. 2:10-14 does too, but after the rains are over. It is not too long after the rains for there are still flowers, probably meaning the wild flowers on the hills. Pentecost fits.

The Lord is patient. "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early (Tishri) and latter (Nisan) rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door" (James 7:7-9).

In Rev. 3:10,11, the Lord mentions his patience. It says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will deep thee from the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial, i.e., the Tribulation), which shall (afterward) come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take they crown."

The Israelites were at Sinai, which represented Heaven, in the month of Sivan. "And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow and let them wash their clothes, And BE READY against the THIRD DAY: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai." He came down, and said that "when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall COME UP to the mount" (Ex. 19:10-13). We may go to the THIRD DAY.

In I Cor. 16:1,8,9,13,14, Paul said, "NOW concerning the collection for the saints...Upon the first day of the week...I will tarry at Ephesus until PENTECOST. For a great DOOR and effectual is opened unto me...Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong. Let all your things be done with charity (agape, love)." If this has a double reference, it would reinforce a Sunday Pentecost and a Sunday Rapture, which Rev. 1:10 could indicate. In 2000, Sivan 8 is Sunday, June 11. This just happens to be when Ivan Labombarbe thinks Pentecost will be in 2000.

He calculated the Hebrew calendar according to the moon, as Gen. 1:14 indicates. Because Psa. 104:19 says, "He made the moon to mark the seasons," he started Nisan on the first New Moon after the Spring Equinox.

However, I am not yet ready to throw out the Talmudic Calendar. Using it, the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 fit perfectly, by inclusive reckoning, from the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost, Mon., Sivan 6, in 2001 to the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, in 2007. I don't see how that can be changed. There just isn't much room for adjustment. The final year must be a Leap Year with 13 months for there to be 7 months (Ezek. 39:12) between Tishri 1, the Day of God's Wrath, and the following Nisan 1, the Second Advent, and 5768 is a Leap Year on the Talmudic Calendar.

The Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993 and ratified in Israel three days later, on Tishri 1. Sept. 13, 1993 + 14 years (7 good, 7 bad) = Sept. 13, 2007. Tishri 1, 5754 + 14 = Tishri 1, 5768, which is Sept. 13, 2007 on the Talmudic Calendar. That is too good to be by accident. I think the final 7-year peace covenant will be confirmed Sivan 6, 2001, Mon. May 28, 5761.

I have emailed Mr. Labombarbe and asked when he thinks Pentecost will be in 2001 and when he thinks the Feast of Trumpets will be in 2007. If I get an answer, I will post the information.

Thanks for making me take another good look at this parable. We see through a glass darkly, but as time goes on, things get clearer as we go. We have to stay alert and keep watching.

His reply

Praise God the Father by His loving Grace, through the BLOOD OF HIS SON and the Wisdom of His Holy Spirit!


May the Good Lord Bless All Who Seek Him in this final hour.

Thank you Marilyn, so much for caring and being there to listen and help. I feel that knowledge and understanding certainly will be increased in these final days! Your Friend in Christ Jesus

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22 May Thunderstorm
We live in central Nebraska and had huge severe thunderstorms the evening of 22 May 99! They began around 5:30 p.m. in our area. Interesting!! In His grip

Note: Strange how things seem to be adding up. The same day I studied hard and decided that Sivan 7 was Pentecost, Ed and I actually drove in the end of the most gorgeous double rainbow we could imagine. That was Jan. 26, after the largest ever GRB Jan. 23.

Last May 22 was Sivan 7. Not only was there a dilly of a thunderstorm here and elsewhere, even South Africa, a new star, Nova Velorum, appeared in the sail of the ship Argo, THE COMPANY OF TRAVELERS. Is the Lord trying to show us that Sivan 7 is the day we are looking forward to? Next Sivan 7, 5760, is Sat., June 10, 2000. Makes me wonder. May 10 was the second largest GRB too. Food for thought.

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Updated 6-6-99